Info Wanted: ESB/ROTJ Audio Mix questions... — Page 2

I've posted elsewhere that I'm quite certain no remixing was done to ESB or RotJ in 1985.  Everything about them sounds exactly the same as far as I can tell, based on the samples I've heard.

There may have been a bit of remastering done at some point, as some versions show a bit of peak limiting or slightly more range compared to others, but nothing substantial.  I wouldn't even have known it was there without looking at the waveforms.

Changes in mastering level don't make a difference in the scheme of things, since raising or lowering your playback volume will compensate for any discrepancy.  No two laserdisc releases seem to have their tracks recorded at the same level; whether analogue or digital, they're all different from each other in that respect.

schorman13 said:

russs15 said:

The Aluminum Falcon said:

Did anyone ever decide to capture the 1985 mix of ESB? Was the only difference to this changed levels?

Bumping this question again. Has anyone captured and synced to the GOUT the 1985 Digital Sound from the 1986 Japanese Special Collection (SF148-1242), 1989 Special Widescreen Edition (1130-85) or 1992 Full SCreen Digital Sound (5651-80) LaserDiscs?

Out of sheer curiosity I plan to do a 1980 in channel 1 and 1985 in channel 2 side by side mix just to hear this for myself. If anyone has done this or is halfway there, I am interested to see how they are getting on.

Russs, I just ordered the special collection on ebay, and I'm planning on ripping the audio at some point later this month.  I also have the Special Widescreen version, which I'll also rip.  I'm going to compare the rips to choose whichever is mastered better.

Ripping or capturing? there is a difference, I wish I had "rips" to sync up to my projects instead of a capture, but capture is still way better than nothing at all, but I just recently got The Terminator ripped Digital PCM from LD and it does sound better than my captured PCM, hell I can't even remember which LD's I used for which audio, I really need to start keeping notes, I PM'd CA to see if he remembers.

But if I could get actual "rips" of the audio, I would definitely re sync all audio over.

OK, I don't know if I should post this here, or in my own thread, or start a new one, but I want to put it somewhere I know it will be seen by those that can help me with this, now that I am gaining more and more experience working with audio, and actually hearing the difference between "ripped" Digital PCM and "captured" PCM, the "ripped" Digital PCM sounds damn great! so since I am not done with my final Blu-ray Set yet, I was thinking I would love to get my hands on better quality audio for this release.

So is there anyone here that can help me in getting these files, if they are available that is, "ripped" not "captured" at the Laserdiscs 16bit/44.1kHz? these are what I would like to find, hell, I am not even sure if all these even have Digital PCM, so correct me if I am wrong please.

Star Wars
1985 Stereo Remix:
- 1130-85   (grabbed from newsgroups, thanks Mallwalker)

The Empire Strikes Back
1980 Theatrical Stereo:
- 1425-84

The Return of The Jedi
1983 Theatrical Stereo:
- 1478-80   (grabbed from newsgroups, thanks Mallwalker)

Thanks

Thanks, I will look for that one now, but yes the better ripped audio would sound so much better than my captured tracks, and as I said, I have learned a lot since putting those tracks in sync, so these will be a lot better, I just need the LD rips.

Thanks again, I will try and find that file you said is already uploaded.

Doing the Terminator LD ripped audio really opened my eyes\ears to how well ripped LD audio really sounds, and I just can't wait to hear the Conan The Barbarian ripped Digital PCM when it gets here for my Conan project.

*edit - Thanks msycamore, I found SW 1130-85 and ROTJ 1478-80, thanks DM for putting them up, now if I can just get the rest of them I will re do ALL the audio for the Blu Set.

schorman13 said:

dark_jedi,

I'm going to rip them.  It's really just bit-perfect capturing if you want to get technical about it.  

As for the other mixes you're looking for, I have all of those ld's, but the 1980 empire disc (1425-84) is analog only, and time compressed, so that cannot be "ripped" per se.  

I'm going to try to get a copy of 1983 Japanese Fullscreen LD (SF098-0013) because it should have the same mix, but isn't time compressed.

I was under the impression from Darth Mallwalker here,
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Star-Wars-Original-Trilogy-Theatrical-Editions-Info-ALL-versions-SEE-FIRST-POST-FOR-INFO-AND-AVAILABILITY/post/418425/#TopicPost418425
that it is not time compressed, and also here from ChainsawAsh,
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Star-Wars-Original-Trilogy-Theatrical-Editions-Info-ALL-versions-SEE-FIRST-POST-FOR-INFO-AND-AVAILABILITY/post/419239/#TopicPost419239
so are you sure of your statement? but I guess either way if it is analog only, I would need to find a digital source, hopefully yours will work.

Thanks

Well Russ, if I can get those ripped Digital PCM files, I will put everyone of them in sync, so you will get your 85 ESB & ROTJ mix, even though I did not use it on my projects because it was deemed not needed, but for you, I will do it.

I wish Darth Mallwalker would chime in, he would know if I could get the rest of these filled, he is pretty knowledgeable in these LD's and their audio.

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/ESB-ROTJ-Audio-Mixes/post/545902/#TopicPost545902

Arnie.d said:

Dark_jedi, is the current V3 theatrical and '85 remix audio an analoge capture? You want to replace it by digital bit perfect rips, right? 

I guess blu-ray doesn't support 44.1 kHz, or does it? So any bitperfect rip needs to be resampled. Does anyone know what is the best way to resample? Is this "secret rabbit code" good (http://www.mega-nerd.com/SRC/fb2k.html)? Or is it better to resample during the capture?

Yes, and yes.

and yes, you have to resample the audio, I have done this already a few times with BD projects I have been doing, most recently my Terminator LD to BD audio I just did and made available, and no I do not use what you have linked to, and it sounds GREAT!

I probably will not go through and resync all these audio files if I can't get the rest of them, having all will make it worth it, but to just do a couple and leave the rest, well to me I may as well just leave it what it is, so hopefully I can get the other files I am looking for.

Now that I think of it, and damn this is frackin confusing! the 85 remix was not needed for either Empire or Jedi, for whatever reason I can't remember, but I am assuming that both Empire and Jedi are the same as 1 of the other tracks for those films, again I can't remember which.

So I guess more than anything I would like to get a Laserdisc bit-for-bit rip of the 1425-84 or whichever other LD has the Empire Theatrical, because Mallwalker already posted the Theatrical for Jedi.

Damn I should have taken notes on all this when I was putting all these various tracks in sync, ChainsawAsh was a huge help for me when I was getting all this info together, hopefully he will pop in soon and shed some light.

Russ you are right, I used the Belbecus 77 mix, but to be honest, I sure would love to have a bit-for-bit rip of that also, which LD's have the Star Wars Theatrical mix on it in Digital? if any do lol.

There are no digital copies of the '77 stereo mix on laserdisc.  Belbucus' analogue capture was made with very high quality equipment, so it's probably the best it's ever going to sound short of an official transfer from the master tape.

As for conversion to 48 khz, if this is not done well, much of the advantage of using digital audio will be negated.  While resampling can never retain the same quality level as the original file, the degree of degradation can be vastly reduced with a high quality algorithm.  The iZotope processor (which I have) may well be one of the best ever made.  Very few others can come close—even the ProTools resampler isn't quite as good as that.

If new tracks are going to replace the captures from before, then they deserve to be heard at their best.  If need be, I may be able to help out with this.  ;)

hairy_hen said:

As for conversion to 48 khz, if this is not done well, much of the advantage of using digital audio will be negated.  While resampling can never retain the same quality level as the original file, the degree of degradation can be vastly reduced with a high quality algorithm.  The iZotope processor (which I have) may well be one of the best ever made.  Very few others can come close—even the ProTools resampler isn't quite as good as that.

russs15 said:

hairy_hen said:

If new tracks are going to replace the captures from before, then they deserve to be heard at their best.  If need be, I may be able to help out with this.  ;)

Agreed!!

So far, I summarise as follows

 

 

Star Wars

1977 Mono - Reconstruction by Belbucus

1977 Stereo - High quality analogue capture by Belbucus ex Full Screen CAV Standard Play (1130-84) LaserDisc in standard and remastered at "reference level" versions.

1985 Stereo Remix - "ripped" by Mallwalker ex 1130-85

1993 THX Stereo - ex GOUT or 93 LD's. LD versions ex Definitive Collection done by Belbucus. Not sure if "ripped" or captured.

The Empire Strikes Back

1980* Theatrical Stereo - Current available analogue capture ex 1425-84 of unknown origin (to me). New HQ version prefered.

1985* Stereo Remix - No known GOUT synced capture or rip ex 1425-85/JSC currently available. New "ripped" copy required.

1993 THX Stereo - ex GOUT or 93 LD's. LD versions ex Definitive Collection done by Belbucus. Not sure if "ripped" or captured.

The Return of The Jedi

1983 Theatrical Stereo - "ripped" by Mallwalker ex 1478-80 (which is the same as 1478-85)

1993 THX Stereo - ex GOUT or 93 LD's. LD versions ex Definitive Collection done by Belbucus. Not sure if "ripped" or captured.

*If these two ESB mixes are indeed the same but analogue or Digital Sound being the difference, surely the 1985 Digital Sound "ripped" ex 1425-85/JSC would be the best quality version available as the Theatrical mix? I would still opt for both for total and utter completeness!!

 

The ESB 80 Theatrical analogue I did, so it is already done, I would like to have the Digital PCM, then I will put that in sync, and I to would love to have the Digital PCM tracks ripped from the JSC, but who has them, and has the capabilities to rip bit-for-bit the audio?

And I totally agree with your bottom statement, but as hairy_hen, and ChainsawAsh, and others have pointed out, the 85 mix was not needed for ESB and ROTJ, that is why they were not included on my V3 DVD Set and my coming soon Blu-ray Set.

@ hairy_hen, did you download the 2 audio files Mallwalker posted on the newsgroups? if so, can you resample those 2 files\all 3 sides for each, and upload them, I would love to physically hear the difference between your resample and my own, because if it is a huge difference as you say, then I would be interested in you resampling my Terminator audio and the Conan The Barbarian audio when I get it, because my method was already a big improvement over my captured analogue audio, but you seem to think your method will knock our socks off, by the way what software do you use? so I am very interested in hearing it myself if I could, Thanks.