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Info Wanted: Anyone Planning on making Anamorphic versions using 2006 OUT DVDs? — Page 3

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wmgan: thanks for that tutorial, I'm sure many people will find it useful. Would you mind reposting it in the technical help forum please? This forum software will not let me split threads.

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Originally posted by: Karyudo
Maybe this thread title should be changed to "Anyone NOT Planning on Making Anamorphic Versions Using the 09/12 OUT DVDs?"

I'm getting worried there are going to be several thousand new projects to collect and watch and criticize....


Several THOUSAND!? Maybe a few dozen. And what is wrong with collecting new and updated projects? That's half the fun!!
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Originally posted by: Sluggo
Several THOUSAND!? Maybe a few dozen.
OK, "several thousand" was hyperbole.
And what is wrong with collecting new and updated projects? That's half the fun!!

If only all of them were good...

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Thanks a lot for the info, wmgan! I don't even have DVD ripping software yet, though, so anything you (or anyone else) would recommend? I'm not looking for anything really fancy (or expensive), just something that would accomplish this SW anamorphic goal with relative ease.

Yeah, when I say novice, I really mean it LOL This is all new to me and I had no real interest in it until now...but thanks to people like you, wmgan, with the more I learn, the more interested in it I become!
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Originally posted by: ESHBG
Thanks a lot for the info, wmgan! I don't even have DVD ripping software yet, though, so anything you (or anyone else) would recommend? I'm not looking for anything really fancy (or expensive), just something that would accomplish this SW anamorphic goal with relative ease.

Yeah, when I say novice, I really mean it LOL This is all new to me and I had no real interest in it until now...but thanks to people like you, wmgan, with the more I learn, the more interested in it I become!


As Wmgan said, use DVD Decrypter for ripping. It's free.
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Originally posted by: Laserschwert
Originally posted by: ESHBG
Thanks a lot for the info, wmgan! I don't even have DVD ripping software yet, though, so anything you (or anyone else) would recommend? I'm not looking for anything really fancy (or expensive), just something that would accomplish this SW anamorphic goal with relative ease.

Yeah, when I say novice, I really mean it LOL This is all new to me and I had no real interest in it until now...but thanks to people like you, wmgan, with the more I learn, the more interested in it I become!


As Wmgan said, use DVD Decrypter for ripping. It's free.

Thanks! But I imagine I will need other software to do the rest (e.g. "DVD-lab Pro")? My mistake for not being clear, and I really meant to ask that question too.

EDIT: Just did a search and found that DVD Decrypter is no longer free. I am trying to find decent alternatives...
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VOBEdit will do the same job.

“I love Darth Editous and I’m not ashamed to admit it.” ~ADigitalMan

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that tutorial above is good,but do you not recommend to IVTC the video?
DJ
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Shouldn't need to if you're using a PAL source.

“I love Darth Editous and I’m not ashamed to admit it.” ~ADigitalMan

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"Shouldn't need to if you're using a PAL source."

thats good to know,but I will if I use my NTSC for the video source?

DJ
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I think I've read that the NTSC GOUT is progressive, so you shouldn't need to worry about IVTC. The video files should be 23.98fps progressive. The pulldown is handled by the DVD player. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. On another subject, I plan on using the PAL GOUT as the framework for The Story of The Empire Strikes Back, which will be an NTSC project.

You can go about your business. Move along, move along.

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/4962/nowplayingbannermasterzc2.jpg
The Story of Star Wars
The Adventures Of Luke Skywalker

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Originally posted by: ESHBG
Just did a search and found that DVD Decrypter is no longer free. I am trying to find decent alternatives...


DVD Decrypter is still free. It just isn't developed or officially distributed any more... but a Google search should give you several sites to download the last version (3.5.4.0) from.

Two of the programs I mentioned, TMPGEnc Plus and DVD-lab Pro, aren't free (the free version of TMPGEnc has a 30-day time limit for MPEG2 encoding). There are freeware alternatives, of course -- check out Doom9.org's software page for a list of freeware MPEG2 encoders, and you can use DVD Author with a graphical frontend to author basic DVDs (though you'll want more sophisticated software for more sophisticated menus).
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DVD Decrypter still does an amazing job 99% of the time. You WILL meet the occasional disc it can't handle.
For that you might want to check out the still-being-developed (but not so complete) DVDFab Decrypter.

It'll rip your most troublesome DVD.

Dr. M

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Definitely - I havent had DVD Devrypter fail me yet! Is it sad I have all 6 SW movies plus Return of the Ewok and Deleted Magic all on my HD cos its quicker to access than getting the discs out?
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it is, isnt it
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Thanks for the info, everyone! Please fell free to keep it coming as I am learning a lot here.
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Well DVD Decrypter can't handle some newer Disney and Sony titles that are a little more aggresively encrypted (technically they are building corrupt discs).

Much of what you all are asking is in ADM's Editing Guide: http://www.originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=12&threadid=3444

Also, if you are just looking to go from your NTSC DVD to Anamorphic (though I would definitely go from PAL), grab DVD Rebuilder.
On a most basic level it takes a DVD-9 and lets you convert to DVD-5 by Re-encoding (NOT recompressing like DVD Shrink).
You can also go DVD-9 to DVD-9.

What IS important is a little check box that says "Convert form LB 4:3 to 16:9".

Hit go! You need little knowledge to do it that way, and you'll keep your closed captioning, subtitles, menus, EVERYTHING.

EDIT: Circuit City is listing the DVDs at $14.95 each this week. So far the cheapest price I've seen.


Dr. M

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But besides dvdrebuilder you need an encoder such as cinema craft encoder or procoder.
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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2 free encoders are available on DVD Rebuilder's website.
CCE is of course better than the free ones, but the difference in quality between the software is definitely closing.

Besides, you'd need an encoder if you were converting manually too.

Dr. M

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Originally posted by: Doctor M
Well DVD Decrypter can't handle some newer Disney and Sony titles that are a little more aggresively encrypted (technically they are building corrupt discs).

Much of what you all are asking is in ADM's Editing Guide: http://www.originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=12&threadid=3444

Also, if you are just looking to go from your NTSC DVD to Anamorphic (though I would definitely go from PAL), grab DVD Rebuilder.
On a most basic level it takes a DVD-9 and lets you convert to DVD-5 by Re-encoding (NOT recompressing like DVD Shrink).
You can also go DVD-9 to DVD-9.

What IS important is a little check box that says "Convert form LB 4:3 to 16:9".

Hit go! You need little knowledge to do it that way, and you'll keep your closed captioning, subtitles, menus, EVERYTHING.

EDIT: Circuit City is listing the DVDs at $14.95 each this week. So far the cheapest price I've seen.

Thanks a lot, Dr. M! I am really only looking to go to anamorphic and nothing more so I downloaded DVD Rebuilder, read about it and messed with it a little. It seems like it may be slightly confusing at first but I am sure I will get the hang of it.


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I don't know if the free version has all the options.
The one you're looking for is on the Options Tab. Follow the tree down: AVS Options/AVS Expert Options:Convert from LB 4:3 to 16:9.
You can also adjust for ITU aspect ratio and use any additional AviSynth filter you'd like (in case you want to tweak the picture while it's at it.)

I'd consider DVD Rebuilder a near on perfect tool if it would allow PAL -> NTSC (and back) conversion.

Check out these guide:
http://www.afterdawn.com/guides/archive/dvd_rebuilder_tutorial.cfm
http://www.afterdawn.com/guides/archive/dvd_rebuilder_tutorial_advanced.cfm
http://www.doom9.org/mpg/dvdrb.htm

They're not all up to date (settings have been moved around), but it'll get you started.

Dr. M

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Originally posted by: Knightmessenger
Does IVTC mean you make an interlaced image progressive?

No. It means to get rid of the 3:2 pulldown applied to run 24 fps film on a 29.97 fps TV.

Was it a time consuming process for those who did LD to dvd transfers?


Takes a while, yeah. Especially when the pattern changes.

Could NTSC laserdiscs be progressive?


No.

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Thanks again, Dr. M!

You can also adjust for ITU aspect ratio and use any additional AviSynth filter you'd like (in case you want to tweak the picture while it's at it.)

Okay, I read various tutorials but I am still not sure what this means exactly. ????


In a nutshell, for what I am looking for, all I need to do is 1) rip the DVD 2) use DVD Rebuilder to make it anamorphic via the "Convert from LB 4:3 to 16:9" option 3) burn this new re-encoded version, correct? It seems as if there really aren't any settings I need to mess with or anything.

Also, it appears as if DVD Rebuilder will let me remove certain subtitles and elements I won't need (e.g. if there are French subtitles, Lego SW II demo, etc.), and will this make a difference in the quality, since not as much info will need to be on the disc? Or won't this matter since this is being re-encoded vs. being compressed?

And what about making the image Progressive? It seems as if it does by default since the original image is progressive but I could be wrong.
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Sorry if this is redundant/off-topic:
Nearly all DVDs (of theatrical movies) are progressive.
29.97 fps video (on DVD) are usually from a video source (as opposed to film).
Since the NTSC standard uses 29.97 (interlaced), progressive 24 frame film material is slowed to 23.976 and a pulldown flag is added to tell the hardware/software to convert (telecine) on-the-fly to make it 29.97 by duplicating and interlacing frames (the pattern is unimportant at this point).
This is why there are Progressive Scan DVD players. They don't convert the data to 29.97, they playback the 24 frame progressive material as recorded.
So although (say the Star Wars) DVD is telecined on playback the actually data on disc is really 23.976 progressive. When re-encoding the flags are ignored and the original 23.976 frames are re-encoded and new pulldown flags are added at the end so it'll playback correctly.

Occasionally you will find true video sources (which is completely interlaced with no duplicate frames at 29.97 fps), and then you have to mess with the deinterlacing (or leave it be, depending on what you want to do with it).
You may also find film sources that have been telecined and recorded that way (such as on laserdiscs or VHS tapes which don't allow for progressive material). Then you must inverse telecining (IVTC) because the material is recorded interlaced at 29.97, not converted to it during playback.

So yes, the material started progressive and ended progressive.
This is one reason some of us can't wait to play with HD content. They allows for true 24 frames. There is no NTSC and no PAL. Hopefully interlacing and telecining will soon be a thing of the past.
HD-DVD and Blu-Ray discs don't even allow for 4x3 content, meaning non-anamorphic discs can't exist.

As far as stipping material, if you are converting down to a single layer DVD (DVD-5), absolutely strip extras, languages, and subtitles that are of no interest to you. I personally would probably just use the Movie Only Mode (since you probably don't care if your extras are anamorphic).
The more space you free up that way, the higher the encoding quality will be on the movie. This is true regardless of compression (transcoding) or re-encoding.

(This is also redundant: Methods of re-encoding like DVD Rebuilder provide higher quality than software like DVD Shrink. The reason is the video is fully re-encoded (which is slower but more accurate). DVD Shrink is a variation on software used in digital broadcasting: "they do not have to decode and re-encode the entire video stream, but only part of it". DVD Shrink probably produces invisible results to 90% of the people to about 80% compression. After that they develop artifacts much faster than re-encoding the video at a lower bitrate which in some cases can almost be halved and still produce a nice picture.)

As far as the ITU aspect ratio, don't worry, it's just plain complicated to explain. The avisynth filters can let you add noise reduction or sharpening, etc. if you are a hopeless tweaker. Again, not particularly necessary.

Dr. M

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Doctor M, I REALLY appreciate the time you are taking to explain this all to me and I am finding this very, VERY informative! Thanks so much! A few more questions/comments:

As far as stipping material, if you are converting down to a single layer DVD (DVD-5), absolutely strip extras, languages, and subtitles that are of no interest to you. I personally would probably just use the Movie Only Mode (since you probably don't care if your extras are anamorphic).
The more space you free up that way, the higher the encoding quality will be on the movie. This is true regardless of compression (transcoding) or re-encoding.
I want to keep the menus, though, so will I still get those? And if so, will they remain anamorphic since I heard that they are? If not, is it really that big of a deal that they won't remain anamorphic? If it won't be, then it won't be to me either, as I am more concerned about the actual movie than the menus. I want them if I can have them, sure, but they aren't a big deal to me really.

RE: "Movie Only Mode", I fished through the program but it doesn't appear that my free version (0.97) has that. I did a search and the only thing that came up was DVD Rebuilder PRO. Maybe I won't be able to do this then?

DVD-9s are pretty expensive I see, so I will probably be using a DVD-5. Since this will be my first attempt at something like this, it seems silly to waste the extra money. Right? Or will the quality difference be worth the extra $?

This is one reason some of us can't wait to play with HD content. They allows for true 24 frames. There is no NTSC and no PAL. Hopefully interlacing and telecining will soon be a thing of the past.
HD-DVD and Blu-Ray discs don't even allow for 4x3 content, meaning non-anamorphic discs can't exist.

Wow, I had no idea! Now I am pretty sure we will see the OUT on the next format, and I'm sure Lucas didn't want to spend a dime because of what you just said; they are putting all their time and $ into the next format. Still no excuse, though.

And in your opinion, which format will be the one that takes off?