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Info Wanted: 1984 VHS Hi-Fi Sound – A better source for the ’77 stereo mix?

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As far as I know the current audio recording of the original 1977 Dolby Stereo sound mix for Star Wars was preserved by Belbucus using the analogue track on a laserdisc. Would I be right in thinking that while the Hi-Fi sound on VHS tapes is inferior to Laserdisc digital PCM, it <span class=“Italics”>is</span> actually better quality than laserdisc’s analogue sound?

If so, would using the 1984 CBS/Fox VHS or Beta tapes provide a superior source for preserving the original theatrical audio mix?

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I don't think that the original Dolby stereo theatrical mix ever made it to VHS. I think that all VHS releases had the '84 audio re-mix. So the laserdisc may be the only source for the '77 dolby stereo mix, regardless of which is better.
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The 1984 Hi-Fi version had the 1977 2.0 mix. All mixes on VHS prior to that were either the 2.0 mix, or a 1.0 folddown of the 2.0 mix, iirc. After that was the 1985 "digitally remastered" version which had the remix. You'll know by the C-3PO tractor beam line - the 2.0 mix lacked it, the 1985 mix has it.

"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)

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I didn't know that the '77 Dolby Stereo mix ever made it to VHS. Interesting.

Anyway, Welcome to the boards, pants.
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the theatrical mix was analogue to begin with star wars had no digital mix til 1985 and back then they had no digital playback equipment or very little. they had released return of the jedi under the thx program in 1983 with digital sound but how many theaters got that probably 5 if even.

unless you have access to the lucas master tapes in his private little skywalker ranch vaults the best you will ever get of the stereo mix is the analogue laserdisc. by the way this was only on the cav release. the clv did not run a proper speed or was sped up to fit the running time and laserdisc.

the clv and cav releases that have the stereo mix all suffer from laser rot problems so a pristine copy is hard to come by.

quote" I didn't know that the '77 Dolby Stereo mix ever made it to VHS. Interesting."



i did only once as on the rental only 20th century fox release which thestarkiller preserved on dvd.

the re-releases all were the later 1985 digital remix.

not sure but i think the non rental from 1984 may also have the theatrical mix.

so without any further proof i think the 84 release is the one you want and not the 1985.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Originally posted by: pants
As far as I know the current audio recording of the original 1977 Dolby Stereo sound mix for Star Wars was preserved by Belbucus using the analogue track on a laserdisc. Correct.
Would I be right in thinking that ... the Hi-Fi sound on VHS tapes ... is actually better quality than laserdisc’s analogue sound?
Don't know - opinion seems to be divided on this one:

(1) LD analog sound, at 75 dB s/n, is comparable to broadcast FM radio and superior to 35mm mag/optical film tracks and VHS Hi-Fi ...
(2) The audio might be considered subjectively little worse than VHS Hi-Fi.

It's also unclear whether CX noise reduction is considered in the above statements. I'm sure Belbucus would know, I'll page him to this thread...If so, would using the 1984 CBS/Fox VHS or Beta tapes provide a superior source for preserving the original theatrical audio mix?
If (2) is true, then perhaps, but any improvement (and the number of people who could actually tell the difference) would so minor that such a project would have little value.

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I have personally never done any comparison of the two formats. At the time, each was clearly an improvement over that which preceded it. They have relatively comparable specs with regard to frequency response and dynamic range. They also have individual issues with regard to artifacts. In this area I think the Laser would probably fare better. In addition, tape has the disadvantage of physical wear, degrading the playback over time (which could also exacerbate the severity of the artifacts).

Also, for the history record, RotJ was not released theatrically with digital sound. It did mark the showcase debut of the first commercial THX Theater System presentations, but the release format was standard Dolby format 42 (6-track mag - Baby Boom – Dolby A). The first feature film officially on record to be released with digital sound was Dick Tracy (Cinema Digital Sound – 1990). Although this was pre dated by a single digital sound presentation of “HOME OF THE BRAVE” at the 57th Street Playhouse, New York City in 1986. (The system utilized SMPTE timecode on 35mm composite magnetic film controlling VHS tape. Playback via 4-channel quad-amped system.)

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Was the VHS '84 stereo track linear or hi-fi? Weren't the linear stereo tracks supposed to sound crappier than linear mono tracks due to the increased noise?

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The 1984 edition said Hi-fi on the box.

"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)

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That's interesting- I didn't know they were doing the hi-fi tapes as early as '84. I got my first vhs copy of SW in '84 or '85 (in the drawer-type box- a bargain at $80! LOL!) but mine just said "stereo- mono compatable" on the box.

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Thanks for all the help, sorry for not getting back sooner!

I was surprised by this claim in the first source:

'LD analog sound, at 75 dB s/n, is comparable to broadcast FM radio and superior to 35mm mag/optical film tracks and VHS Hi-Fi ...'

Is this correct? Is the signal to noise ratio the only factor in determining the quality of analogue sound? Does anyone know what the s/n for 35mm optical or magnetic is?
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More than that VHS Hi-Fi tape can be damaged very easy, thou that’s not the point.

High frequency sounds tend to buzz sometimes and low frequency sounds tend to buzz as well depending on the scene and how quite background sounds are. I remember having a copy of Apocalypse Now on VHS Hi-Fi and the jungle scene where the tiger jumps out! Just before that where the Willard stops, and looks straight ahead, there’s this annoying buzzing on the lows.

So no VHS Hi-Fi isn’t a good source Laserdisc is its more pure sounding. I have a very early PAL laserdisc of Star Wars that was pressed back in (1982) which as been transferred to DVD-RW.

There is a bit of noise on it due to the analogue fm stereo track its Dolby stereo encoded and thou I can use the (CX noise reduction) on the laserdisc player to reduce the noise level it wasn’t a bad transfer.
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w118/Brainstorm3417/saberwalker.gif
Only the originals from the 70mm six-track Dolby stereo Dolby format 42 will sound better on DVD.