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Info & Ideas: ESB and ROTJ Wishlist — Page 336

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Posted this awhile back in the Revisited ideas thread (thought I was posting in this one). It's still an unfinished thought, but one that I think might be going somewhere...

ray_afraid said:

This is just a thought... and an unfinished one at that...

But does anybody else think the Empire should refer to the Death Star with a different name? Seems to me that "Death Star" should be a slang term the Rebellion uses to show what a terrible weapon this thing really is. Also, it seems a bit silly for the bad guys to call their battle station something so obviously evil. Wouldn't they be promoting this thing as something that is here for the good of the people while secretly using it to enforce their own agenda? And, if so, wouldn't naming it "The Death Star" kinda blow the lid on that?

Not that the citizens of the universe could really do anything about it at this point, but... I dunno. Guess it just seems a bit on the nose. Might as well name it "The Evil Empire's Big Scary Kill Machine".

ray_afraid said:

Ryan McAvoy said:

I think the Empire get off on butch names for their hardware.

Stardestroyer - Avenger, Executor, Devastator and Tyrant plus Stormtroopers is pretty evil.

I dunno.. To me, all of those things sound Nazi-esuqe. Which isn't to say they don't sound Intimidating, but if you were living a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, calling a large battle ship a "Stardestroyer" doesn't seem to be a term you'd find anymore alarming than calling a plane with mass destruction capabilities a "Bomber" here on Earth during WW2.

But a "Death Star"....

Ryan McAvoy said:

Death Star sounds evil but I imagine that was the point when they designed a weapon of mass genocide on an almost unimaginable scale.

haha that's true...

Like I said, it's just a half-thought, but there's something there... I just haven't figured it out yet lol

What got me thinking about it is Lando's line "We'll last longer than we will against that "Death Star"!...." the way Billy Dee-livers that line makes "Death Star" sound like it's a nickname they've given it. So I'm thinking...

What if the Empire refers to it as the "Iron Star"- a giant space station from which they can watch and govern the galaxy. It's a giant, galaxy cruising big brother, able to survey lawbreakers, catch them and even imprison them right inside. What they aren't saying is that it also has the ability to destroy an entire planet with little more than the flick of a switch. The Rebels then give it the name Death Star in their own anti-Empire propaganda.

And I'm still not sure where I'm going here....

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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Looking back at the Radio version Death Star was the secret code name for the station which Leia accidentally lets slip in conversation proving that she had access to secret Imperial memos.

The only Star Destroyer name we hear on screen is Avenger, which makes Death Star sound in the same sort of mode.

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In the radio drama, Death Star is merely a project code name, not necessarily the official name.  I kind of like thinking of it that way: it's a code name that the Alliance adopted for propaganda purposes.  It seems to fit your interpretation perfectly.  But for the record, I don't think the Empire cares much at that point if they are offending their population with scary names.  They intend to use "fear [to] keep the local systems in line," not subtlety, as Palpatine did* to first gain control.

 

 

 

*cough, yeah, Palps was reeeeeal subtle as he assumed power...I can totally see why no one suspected him.

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 (Edited)

Bingowings said:

Looking back at the Radio version Death Star was the secret code name for the station which Leia accidentally lets slip in conversation proving that she had access to secret Imperial memos.

darth_ender said:

In the radio drama, Death Star is merely a project code name, not necessarily the official name.  I kind of like thinking of it that way: it's a code name that the Alliance adopted for propaganda purposes.  It seems to fit your interpretation perfectly.

Well that's cool. I've listened to the radio drama a couple times, but it's been over 10 years. That little fact must have been kicking around in the back of my mind.

There's really not much point in me bringing any of this up as we never hear civilians talking about the space station and anytime it is mentioned on screen they could just be using the code name (like I said, it was Billy Dee's delivery of "...that DEATH Star..." that got me thinking about this in the first place.) So nowhere to fit any of this into the films. Still, it fits into my own personal cannon quite nicely.

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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What can be done with Jabbas mouth in Jedi? The puppet looks fantastic until that intricate language comes out of that unarticulated, flapping mouth.

Ady has done wonders with "cantinaization" on Greedo and now Yoda, but it seems to me that Jabbas mouth needs so much more movement than it has that it would start to blur horribly using that technique. Imagine trying to make that mouth make a convincing "O" sound when he says "Wookiee".

If the language he speaks wasn't so human sounding and instead he made sounds similar to a frog... I think that would be interesting. But I love the voice and would really hate to lose that. Not to mention the work that would go into that kind of a change..

Any ideas?

 

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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The thing about the Empire is it's totally guileless unto itself.

If the station was something the public had a say in they would have to put a spin on it like they did in the first Star Wars Infinities comic. 

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You guys must be sick of reading comments on this list, but here are my thoughts...

Opening:

  1. Consider the more radical re-edits to the entire movie Not to radical please. I'm not much in favour of major changes to the OT, even ROTJ.
  2. Change the opening crawl to something more dramatic than "Luke Skywalker has returned to his home planet of Tatooine in an attempt to rescue his friend Han Solo from the clutches of the vile gangster Jabba The Hutt" This would make me very happy, the current crawl doesn't have the same effect as those in ANH and tESB.
  3. Add evidence of construction vehicles working on the Death Star, maybe even as just hints of movement around the incomplete side. I like this, as long as it doesn't take away from the battle.
  4. Replace the shot of the Star Destroyer going overhead with a shot of the shuttle coming from the Executor. I don't care either way.


Tatooine:

  1. Remove Boba Fett from the film. Boba being in the movie doesn't bother me at all (and no, I'm not a Fett fan). He might be hanging around Jabba's palace and enjoying all the slave girls. Jabba could be paying him to do other jobs for him, and he probably just works for the money, not for the fun of it, so he might prefer free meals, slave girls, etc. to chasing people around the galaxy.
  2. Change Jawa eyes to match ANH. If they need fixing, fix 'em.
  3. "Cantina"-ize Jabba's speech and expressions. Definitely, his mouth flapping up and down just doesn't quite do it anymore.
  4. "Cantina"-ize other aliens in the Palace. Yes, definitely.
  5. Make Bib Fortuna's tentacles move occasionally. Just subtly, but I would like this. Twi'leks are supposed to be able to speak and express emotion with their Lekku (the EU name for their tentacles), so having Bib Fortuna's remain motionless doesn't make sense from that perspective.
  6. Remove Greedo's dialog from the background noice in Jabba's Palace. If it's there, it must be removed. I haven't noticed it though.
  7. Remove 3PO's line of "Look, it's Captain Solo and he's still frozen in Carbonite!" I think it fits with 3PO's character, but I can go either way on that.
  8. Cut down on Salacious Crumb's laughter. Keep him, but cut out one or two of his laughs; his laughing gets annoying really quickly.
  9. Cut/shorten the Droid Torture scene. Robots/Droids should not be able to feel pain. I also think the line on Bespin where 3PO complains that bumping his head on the Falcon as Chewie gets on board should be removed. Parts of the scene could be kept, as droids with more intelligence would not necessarily find the torture painful, but possibly humiliating (take C-3PO for example).
  10. Remove Jedi Rocks. I could go either way on this one, but I would prefer Lapti Nek--but I like Fett flirting with the dancers, so I am undecided.
  11. Remove Fett flirting with the dancer. Keep this.
  12. Restore Lapti Nek. I say don't completely remove the dance number, just shorten it.
  13. Fix the flipped shots of Fett. Since I vote for keeping Fett in the movie, I say of course.
  14. Change Boushh's dialog to be a more "realistic" language. Please. Speaking of language, change "Jedi Mind Trick" in Huttese to something different. I didn't think it made sense for their to be no word(s) for it in Huttese especially since the Jedi had been around for thousands of years.
  15. Mix up Jabba's minion's reaction to Boushh's thermal detenator so Fett isn't the only one who pulls out his gun. Maybe cut Fett out of some scenes so that it looks like he isn't just hanging around doing nothing the entire time.
  16. Cut Lando pulling his mask down after he hits his head on the low ceiling. I could go either way on this.
  17. Remove Lando hitting his head on the low ceiling. I don't think it really matters, but if it would make people happy, then whatever.
  18. Remove the belch from the creature outside Jabba's Palace. Remove the belch, keep the scene (unless that makes the scene to short--I can't remember how it fits in).
  19. Enhance the carbonite thawing process. And remove the stupid light rays coming from the carbonite. I know that some people like that, but that's so unrealistic it drives me crazy every time I see it. And shouldn't all the carbonite melt and not just the part covering Han? This definitely needs work.
  20. Add Han's restraints when he is unfrozen. Or have them removed before he's frozen, which would be my preference.
  21. Remove Han's scene with Chewie in the dungeons. Why??? I like that scene.
  22. Remove Luke using Force Choke on the guards. Might be better since force choking is more of a dark side thing.
  23. Add Mara Jade (from the EU) to Jabba's Palace. If you do end up removing Fett, maybe you could replace him with another character which you could put over top of him (minus the death scene of course).
  24. Cut the Rancor Keeper's mourning. I could go either way.
  25. Remove SE Bantha herd. Keep it unless it looks bad or takes away from the scene.
  26. Restore pre-SE Sarlacc. Keep it, it adds more life to the Sarlacc. If you remove it, add more tentacles. The pre-SE Sarlacc didn't look very alive in my opinion.
  27. Add more menancing sounds to the SE Sarlacc. Please! The only problem I have with the SE Sarlacc are the stupid noises it makes.
  28. Fix jump cut as R2's panel comes open and the lightsaber pops up. Probably.
  29. Add the knob to the top of the emitter to the saber that comes out of R2. I haven't noticed it, but I say fix it if you can.
  30. Shorten the amount of time Luke has his hand in the air waiting for his lightsaber. This always bugged me. He should be able to use the force to speed it up. Maybe fast forward it and add more of a motion blur to fix this, unless it will make stuff in the background look bad.
  31. "Restore" Luke's lightsaber to the preproduction blue. What for? I like the green sabre. It wouldn't show up well against the sky on Tatooine anyway.
  32. Make it so Luke's lightsaber leaves slash marks on Jabba's crew. That would be a welcome addition.
  33. Remove/replace the scream as Fett spirals out of control. Maybe have him grunt instead, or something more manly.
  34. Make it so Han deliberately hits or shoots Fett using shots from later in the movie. He's a minor character, why does he need a good death? I think it's a suitable end to someone as feared as Fett.
  35. Make it so Luke beheads Fett. Not a fan of the idea, but I wouldn't be upset if it was in the edit.
  36. Make it so Luke deflects a bolt at Fett which sets off his backpack. I have to admit that I would prefer this to an accidental death.
  37. Fix Fett's jetpack as they come out at the wrong angle currently. Doesn't really matter to me.
  38. Have Fett shoot at the Sarlacc as he falls into it. That would be much better than him not doing anything.
  39. Add a shot of Fett crawling/flying out of the Sarlacc. Maybe.
  40. Fix it so Luke actually kicks the guard while Fett flies out of control in the background. Yes, Luke should have better aim. You can remove Fett in the background if you end up taking him out of the movie (which would probably be a lot of work).
  41. Restore Han's "Trust me" line. I actually prefer the SE line, but I agree that it's kinda long for that situation.
  42. Make it so Luke doesn't have his hand straight up in the air to get shot. I always thought that was stupid.
  43. Remove Luke's hand damage from before he gets shot. Again, remove him holding his hand up in the air entirely.
  44. Attempt to restore the deleted Sandstorm scene and remove the ship-to-ship conversation. Don't care and as far as I'm aware, there isn't enough footage to do this.


Dagobah:

  1. "Cantina"-ize Yoda. Definitely. He needs it less than other characters, but it should still be done.
  2. Do something about Yoda's obvious rubber hand during his death scene. Yes.
  3. Tweak/cut Yoda's disappearance. It looks to gradual and fake. If his clothes disappear (can't remember if they do or not) then they shouldn't.
  4. Recolor the blue Force Ghosts to prevent confusion with blue holograms. Again, why? I don't know of anyone who was confused between the two.
  5. No Luke/Leia relation. NO! That's part of the whole story, and it would be pointless to remove it.


Rebel Fleet:

  1. Recut Rebel Briefing. I don't really care, but what's-his-name who did the briefing in ANH should be there.
  2. Shorten/cut the huggy Luke and Co. reunion ("I'm with you too" and on). Agreed. I'll leave the how to Adywan.
  3. Different Shuttle Class for Tydyrium. Or make the emperor's shuttle fancier. The interior of the Emperor's shuttle could be completely different, and I think it's mostly the interior that would matter. The exterior should be different though.
  4. Replace/enhance matte painting of Rebel docking bay. Yes please!! Add more action in "dead" areas.


Forest Moon of Endor:

  1. Add Endor so that the Forest Moon is actually a moon of something.I think the story is that the planet Endor was destroyed, but I think the moon Endor would go flying out of orbit if that was the case. Maybe Endor could just be a small planet and a moon in name only? But a planet would probably be better.
  2. Change Ewoks to Wookiees. No, leave the Ewoks, but make them seem fiercer and remove some goofy scenes. 
  3. Complete removal of Ewoks. Again, keep the Ewoks but make them less cute and cuddly and add more of them in the battle.
  4. "Cantina"-ize the Ewoks. Yes, and make them look angrier.
  5. Add 3PO's line "I believe they are called... Ewoks" from the Radio Drama. I don't care, but I think it's pointless.
  6. Stabilize the speeder bikes during the chase. Yes, and the background always looked like it didn't fit in to me.
  7. Adjust the scene so it looks like the Scout pushes Luke off of his speeder bike. I always thought Luke jumped off when he saw the tree up ahead.
  8. Do something with Leia remembering her mother, her real mother. Yes, that would be better.
  9. Change Vader's line of "Obi-wan once thought as you do" to "Your mother once thought as you do". Maybe add a pause ("Your...mother once thought as you do") since it would pain him to think about Padme (unless you plan to change that in the revisited PT).
  10. Cut Teebo's Speeder Bike Adventure. It is unnecessary and adds to the Ewok's cuteness a bit too much.
  11. Add more Imperial laser fire as the Ewoks attack. And show waaay more Ewoks dying.
  12. Add AT-AT to ground battle. It would be cool, but a lot of work and the Ewoks wouldn't be able to destroy it, so you would have to think up a different way to get rid of it.
  13. Change AT-ST windows to match the windows in ESB. They could be a different model.
  14. Cut Chewie's Tarzan yell. I don't remember it, but I think it would be a good idea to scrap it.
  15. Enhance AT-ST explosion that is crushed between the two logs. Or remove the explosion if you can and just have it get squished. I suppose that if a fuel tank burst it would explode, but I think the scene should be kept, but improved.
  16. Enhance AT-ST explosion that is shot by Chewie's AT-ST. Yes.
  17. Remove Harrison Ford's reflection from safety glass as he runs from the bunker. I haven't notice before, but it should be removed.
  18. The shield generator explosion is huge and looks like it would probably wipe out everyone in the area. The small bunker thing was a separate building away from the shield generator. Their was a chain reaction which led to the generator and blew it up, so the rebels were clear of the blast.


Death Star Attack:

  1. Rebel fighters crashing into the DS shield. Definitely.
  2. More fighters overall (B-wings and A-wings especially). Yes, but maybe more in the background (I guess that's probably how it would be anyway).
  3. Fix garbage spots in "one of the battle shots" where ships were not added. Yes.
  4. Just before Lando says "Yes, I said closer", some of the background ships don't tilt with the rest of the shot. Yes, fix it.
  5. Remove green matte boxes around ships. Yes, that bugs me a lot. I'm not sure if you fixed the matte boxes around the Tie Fighters in ANH, but if you didn't, it should be fixed for the HD release.
  6. Remove/replace some of the copy/paste capital ships. Work your magic Ady.
  7. Add more laser fire as the capital ships should be pounding on one another (a la the RotS opening). That would be pretty awesome, and you could avoid having it to much like RotS by having it in the background.
  8. Add shots of Rebel capital ships attacking the surface of the DS (storyboard) That would be good too.
  9. Better end to the Executor. I think it should cause waay more damage to the Death Star, but the way it's destroyed never bothered me. It lost the bridge, so it went out of control--but maybe it should be pulled towards the greatest source of gravity (i.e. Endor) instead of the Death Star?
  10. Add shots of the gunner stations on the DS (from ANH). Unnecessary.
  11. Redub the Rebel pilot line: "Copy, Gold Leader". I never thought it sounded bad, but there must be something to this.
  12. Kill Lando, blow up the Falcon. Justify Han's feeling like he's "never going to see her again." But this is what we're led to expect, and I think its better when the expected doesn't happen (with some exceptions--I think it would be stupid for Luke to fall to the dark side and for the rebels to all die). But add more ships attacking them and more damage to the Falcon, to add more tension. It seems to me that a tunnel leading to the core of the Death Star would be better protected.
  13. Remove ring from DS explosion. I don't mind it, but sure.


Death Star Interior - Luke/Vader Duel:

  1. Replace/enhance cardboard troopers during the Emperor's arrival. Please.
  2. Replace the Emperor's advisers with Nemoidians. NOOO!! The Emperor is supposed to be specist anyway, which is why he doesn't have non-humans in his army/navy.
  3. Fix the Emperor's "slugs". Can someone please explain to me what the Emperor's "slugs" are? I haven't been able to figure out what is meant by that.
  4. Move the exterior battle closer to the Throne Room window as it should be (a la the RotS opening). I would welcome this, but don't bring them too close. I would just like them to be actually visible, especially when Luke is watching them from the throne room.
  5. Remove/soften the more obvious lightsaber blade shadows. Yes!
  6. Fix large black matte that covers half the screen when Vader is kicked down the stars. Never noticed it, but if it's there fix it.
  7. Fix Vader's blade coming out the wrong end of his saber as he throws it to cut the catwalk. Please.
  8. Remove Luke's lightsaber from Vader's hand while Luke is hiding. Since we don't see why Vader ends up with his sabre, that should be fixed.
  9. Edit Vader's dialog to hiding Luke to remove some cheesy lines. Cheesy? I never thought they were cheesy. Keep them in.
  10. Add Luke pulling his lightsaber out of Vader's hand after he is done hiding. No. Just remove the sabre from Vader's hand.
  11. Add Sith eyes while Luke is beating Vader. I think that only Sith who have turned completely to the dark side and have no or almost no chance of redemption should get the Sith eyes.
  12. Cut some of Luke's angry hits on Vader while he's down. Maybe make them look less clumsy.
  13. Add more Sith Lightning. No more! But it badly needs enhancing.
  14. Tighten up Vader's hesitation to save Luke from the Emperor. No, it's fine the way it is.
  15. Add Qui Gon voiceover to Vader's hesitation to imply that Qui Gon passes his secrets of Jedi Ghosthood to Anakin. No, that's supposed to be Obi-Wan's job.
  16. Add flashbacks to Vader's hesitation of Padme, his mother, Qui Gon, etc. No, please no.
  17. Fix saber on/off issues. Yes.
  18. Restore Sebastian Shaw's eyebrows to the unmasking scene. No, that was a good change. He lost all his other hair, why would he still have eyebrows? His eyelashes should be removed if they're there.
  19. Fix the transition from Sebastian Shaw's face to the bald cap he wears. Yes.


Ending:

  1. Fix Luke's lazy eye as he looks at the funeral pyre. Never noticed it, but go ahead.
  2. Add Leia viewing the funeral pyre. She sees Vader differently from Luke and I don't think it would be suitable.
  3. Remove SE celebrations. I like them, but they need work.
  4. Restore pre-2004 buildings to the background of the Coruscant celebration. Yes. We don't need to be seeing the same location on Coruscant as we did in the prequels. Coruscant is huge!
  5. Remove the "Weesa free!" line from the Naboo celebration. Yes, and fiz the flip shot.
  6. Restore Yub Nub. I don't like it, but I could live with it.
  7. Restore Sebastian Shaw as Anakin's Force Ghost. YES! Cut down on his pudginess if you can though. I think Anakin would like to appear as if he were in shape.
  8. Attempt to morph Shaw and Christensen into the Anakin Force Ghost. No, that would not work well.
  9. Add other Jedi from the prequels appearing next to Obi-wan, Yoda, and Anakin. No, only the ones Luke knew. Maybe the other ones were there, but that doesn't necessarily mean Luke would see them.

 

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My objection to the droid torture scene isn't anything to do with droids feeling pain (Threepio has complained about discomfort since 1977 so they register something akin to pain).

I object to it being a 'comedy torture scene'.

We are meant to see Threepio and Artoo as characters (characters that the other characters see as objects most of the time but characters none the less).

When the barman sends the droids away from the Cantina in ANH it's meant to evoke historic representations of how slaves are treated, when Artoo is shot up over the Death Star it's an emotional note that is hit not a comedic one.

Artoo and Threepio are 'metal people' so seeing their kind tortured for laughs undermines their position in the pantheon of heroes in a way more evocative of the PT than the rest of the OT (the silly noises the battledroids make when being sliced by sabers fits this scene uncomfortably well).

ANH and ESB have torture scenes played straight so this one just comes across as highly distasteful.

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 (Edited)

If we're allowed to make our own lists of preferences...

Opening:

1. Make a new crawl. The current ROTJ crawl is underwhelming.

2. The Executor should be the first shot, and the shuttle should slowly grow and fly past the camera. A reverse angle of it flying toward the Death Star II show be our first glimpse of the new Death Star. Rest of the opening normally.                  

3. Reinsert the deleted footage of Vader contacting Luke telepathically. A very chilling scene for a much darker opening.                                                        

4. Recolor the footage of Luke in the Tatooine cave to make it look like he's on Dagobah.    

5. Cut to a few exterior shots of Dagobah, then the Yoda's Twilight scene, recut to make it seem like Luke has been there since the end of ESB, making him more mature. I like this character dynamic of him having been separated from his friends for a long time.  

6. After Luke's conversation with Ben, cross-wipe to a newly constructed shot of C-3PO outside the cave with the deleted matte painting of the X-wing and Falcon. Cut to the 3P0 and R2 segment of the deleted opening. The implication of this new opening is that Luke was recording his message for Jabba in the cave.

7. Replace the "this awful place" line with "that awful place" from the Story OF album.

8. 3PO's redundant dialogue should be removed. You know 'He's still frozen in carbonite'.

9. Still keep the droids being lead to the torture chamber, but remove the EV-9D9 torture scene itself.

10. Cut down the musical number, make it a mix of both the SE and Original. My idea, background singers from SE, puppet from OT, music from the music video. Struggle from the OT. Make it shorter, though. Reintegrate the Oola in the pit scene from the SE.

Jabba's Palace Battle:

1. Bantha Scene from SE should be in there.

2. Original Saarlac.

3. The original music cue for the barge battle should be used.

4. Remove Boba's final line. Ridiculous.

5. Redit the music so that the cue ends when the skiif flies off screen.

6. Reintegrate the Sandstorm scene. Use soundalikes to do ADR, and also remove Luke's allusion to going to Dagobah. Create a new shot when Luke looks back, showing the Falcon taking off through the Sandstorm. Compose new music.

7. New FX to show Falcon going to lightspeed and Luke following after them. 

Endor:

1. Recut shuttle taking off to leave out Han's line about not seeing the Falcon again.

2. Recut shuttle to show Luke having a silent conversation with Vader. Luke says nothing through the whole scene.

3. New shot showing the shuttle landing.

4. Chewie roars to alert the Scout Trooper, Han steps on no twig.

5. Remove Wicket finding Leia scene.

6. The Ewok pokes Han only once before he freaks out.

7. Han does not get jealous at Leia and Luke.

Epic Battle:

1. Reinstate General Madine's footage. Some of it.

2. The Ewok on the speeder bike does not survive.

3. Reinstate a newly editied version of the deleted bunker battle.

4. Show a new shot of the TIEs taking off from the Star Destroyers.

5. New scenes of the battle showing some of the deleted pilots.

6. New scenes aboard the Falcon, showing the gunner ports.

7. More Ewoks should die.

8. Chewie should get into the action earlier, so it's more believable that they win.

9. Show some footage of Ewok's with friggin' lazer beams from Battle for Endor.

10. New shot of Vader's severed arm, with more mechanical parts than wires.

11. Wedge could possibly not make it out of the Death Star.

Ending:

There's two ways this could go...

1. Just have Luke at the pyre. As soon as Vader's on fire, Sebastian Shaw fades in and Ben, Yoda, and he look on. The camera pans up, credits.

2. Basically a cross between the OT ending and the SE ending. No planetary celebrations. Victory Celebration (soundtrack version) as the music. Have some of the shots from the '97 version, but most of the longer shots from the OT version. Sebastian Shaw with the ghosts, with the longer shot from the '97 version.

I’m just here because I’m driving tonight.

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Tack said:

1. Recut shuttle taking off to leave out Han's line about not seeing the Falcon again.

I think Han's line should be left in. It adds to the tension in the final battle because you are led to believe that the Falcon might be destroyed.



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Yeah, I've kinda softened up to it. What did you think of the rest?

I’m just here because I’m driving tonight.

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I contemplated the possibility of blowing up the Falcon (having the cockpit as a sort of escape pod).

If the ship returned in the sequels it could be that Han got another ship of the same class and re-named her but it would intensify the escape out of the burning tubes.

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I know this is probably far too radical for this thread, but ideally it would be great if the new weapon being constructed by the Empire was something other than "another Death Star"


Obviously the Death Star 2 has it's own unique spin on things that differ from the first movie, but it still feels a tad rehashed....

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It has been suggested along with having more than one built at the same time.

It would take a few dialogue trims though.

I think the thing is called Death Star more in ROTJ than in the first film.

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it would be nice to come up with something new, but i don't think anything was ever thought up that could fit.

it'd be interesting though if whatever 'DS2' was changed to, could relate back to the PT somehow, like dooku had developed a superweapon, or uncovered one. maybe a facility of droids which were super kick ass (like if grevious was a prototype).

thing is though, it'd ultimately be a superweapon, which blows up rather carelessly due to rebel ships shooting it in the heart. so even if it was a giant space hoop called something else, it'd be a death star.

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Tack said:

If we're allowed to make our own lists of preferences...

Opening:

1. Make a new crawl. The current ROTJ crawl is underwhelming. Agreed.

2. The Executor should be the first shot, and the shuttle should slowly grow and fly past the camera. A reverse angle of it flying toward the Death Star II show be our first glimpse of the new Death Star. Rest of the opening normally. That sounds pretty good.                 

3. Reinsert the deleted footage of Vader contacting Luke telepathically. A very chilling scene for a much darker opening. I like this too.                                                       

4. Recolor the footage of Luke in the cave to make it look like he's on Dagobah. Which cave?   

5. Cut to a few exterior shots of Dagobah, then the Yoda's Twilight scene, recut to make it seem like Luke has been there since the end of ESB, making him more mature. I like this character dynamic of him having been separated from his friends for a long time. I think this is a good idea. Otherwise it seems like he didn't spend nearly enough time training. 

6. After Luke's conversation with Ben, cross-wipe to a newly constructed shot of C-3PO outside the cave with the deleted matte painting of the X-wing and Falcon. Cut to the 3P0 and R2 segment of the deleted opening. The implication of this new opening is that Luke was recording his message for Jabba in the cave. This may not be necessary, but I wouldn't mind seeing it in the movie.

7. Replace the "this awful place" line with "that awful place" from the Story OF album. I'll have to re-watch the scene it appears in to give an opinion on that one.

8. 3PO's redundant dialogue should be removed. You know 'He's still frozen in carbonite'. I think redundant dialogue is part of C-3PO's character, so I think most of it should be left in. The laughing after that line should be cut down though.

9. Still keep the droids being lead to the torture chamber, but remove the EV-9D9 torture scene itself. I think everything in that scene should be kept except for the shots of droids actually being tortured.

10. Cut down the musical number, make it a mix of both the SE and Original. My idea, background singers from SE, puppet from OT, music from the music video. Struggle from the OT. Make it shorter, though. Reintegrate the Oola in the pit scene from the SE. I would love it done this way!

Jabba's Palace Battle:

1. Bantha Scene from SE should be in there. Yup.

2. Original Saarlac. Only if it's given more life. The sounds from the new Saarlac should definitely be replaced though

3. The original music cue for the barge battle should be used. I don't remember the original cue so I can't comment on this. Most of the original music was better though.

4. Remove Boba's final line. Ridiculous. Which final line? The scream? If so, the scream should be replaced with a manly grunt :)

5. Redit the music so that the cue ends when the skiif flies off screen. Sounds good.

6. Reintegrate the Sandstorm scene. Use soundalikes to do ADR, and also remove Luke's allusion to going to Dagobah. Create a new shot when Luke looks back, showing the Falcon taking off through the Sandstorm. Compose new music. I don't think this would work well or be necessary, but if it can be done...

7. New FX to show Falcon going to lightspeed and Luke following after them. Sounds good.

Endor:

1. Recut shuttle taking off to leave out Han's line about not seeing the Falcon again. I've already voiced my opinion on this one.

2. Recut shuttle to show Luke having a silent conversation with Vader. Luke says nothing through the whole scene. Perhaps, if it would work.

3. New shot showing the shuttle landing. Sure.

4. Chewie roars to alert the Scout Trooper, Han steps on no twig. I could go either way on this one.

5. Remove Wicket finding Leia scene. I think it should be kept. It explains how Leia ended up with the Ewoks and why she isn't being eaten like the rest were supposed to be, and the only reason to take it out would be to make the Ewoks less cute, but Wicket is supposed to be a young Ewok anyway.

6. The Ewok pokes Han only once before he freaks out. Yes, Han doesn't have the patience to allow someone to poke him even once.

7. Han does not get jealous at Leia and Luke. I think it adds to the romantic side of the story which is much, much, much better done than the one in AotR.

Epic Battle:

1. Reinstate General Madine's footage. Some of it. If it can be done, then do it.

2. The Ewok does not survive. A lot of the Ewoks shouldn't survive.

3. Reinstate a newly edited version of the bunker battle. Edited how? If you mean it needs more, and fiercer Ewoks, more Ewok deaths, Chewie should take over the AT-ST sooner, some rebels should die, the Imperials shouldn't die so easily and should have better aim, etc.

4. Show a new shot of the TIEs taking off from the Star Destroyers. They could be improved.

5. New scenes of the battle showing some of the deleted pilots. +1

6. New scenes aboard the Falcon, showing the gunner ports. It would add to the battle for sure, so do it.

7. More Ewoks should die. As I said above a couple times, YES, YES, YES, YES!

8. Chewie should get into the action earlier, so it's more believable that they win. I thought you had mentioned this somewhere. I vote for this as well.

9. Show some footage of Ewok's with friggin' lazer beams from Battle for Endor. I could go with this too.

10. New shot of Vader's severed arm, with more mechanical parts than wires. Make it match up to Anakin's mechanical arm in Episode III.

11. Wedge could possibly not make it out of the Death Star. Possibly, but only if you could make it so that he is missed, since he was a valued pilot.

Ending:

There's two ways this could go...

1. Just have Luke at the pyre. As soon as Vader's on fire, Sebastian Shaw fades in and Ben, Yoda, and he look on. The camera pans up, credits. I can't remember if it already ends when Leia brings Luke away from the force ghosts, but it should end there.

2. Basically a cross between the OT ending and the SE ending. No planetary celebrations. Victory Celebration (soundtrack version) as the music. Have some of the shots from the '97 version, but most of the longer shots from the OT version. Sebastian Shaw with the ghosts, with the longer shot from the '97 version. I like that, but maybe the celebration should just be kept in the background.

 

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OK, edited the list to clarify some things. Thanks for your input, Ric.

I’m just here because I’m driving tonight.

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 (Edited)

I remember some kid in the playground saying that the new Star Wars film would have a big battle near the wreck of the Death Star.

Naturally I didn't believe it because the explosion in the first film turned the thing to glitter.

Then I picked up this in WHSmith.

and it had this on the first double page spread.

and for a moment I actually thought it was rather cool.

But if the explosion in an ANH edit could be toned down, the new station could be the burned out husk of the old station thus making the Death Star in the first film more impressive because it was easier to try and patch up the large chunk that survived that inferno than start from scratch.

New models and mattes could show the interior as a melted ash filled version of the sterile corridors and internal canyons of the first film.

It could underline just how much the Empire has already fallen into chaos making the final victory more plausible.

The same kid said that the Emperor was guarded by two red Boba Fetts...

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Uh, I thought that for a second. And then I realized that would even be a little cheaper than what's in the film already. If it was actually the remains of the Death Star no refurbishments, that would be a hell of a set-piece.

None of my ideas were too radical (I hope), I think the film is good, but it can be improved by quite a bit to match ESB. If there was a feasible way, I would remove the Luke and Leia relationship. It's a cheap solution to a story arc.

I’m just here because I’m driving tonight.

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 (Edited)

Bingowings said:

I remember some kid in the playground saying that the new Star Wars film would have a big battle near the wreck of the Death Star.

Naturally I didn't believe it because the explosion in the first film turned the thing to glitter.

Then I picked up this in WHSmith.

and it had this on the first double page spread.

and for a moment I actually thought it was rather cool.

But if the explosion in an ANH edit could be toned down, the new station could be the burned out husk of the old station thus making the Death Star in the first film more impressive because it was easier to try and patch up the large chunk that survived that inferno than start from scratch.

New models and mattes could show the interior as a melted ash filled version of the sterile corridors and internal canyons of the first film.

It could underline just how much the Empire has already fallen into chaos making the final victory more plausible.

The same kid said that the Emperor was guarded by two red Boba Fetts...

 

This is a really cool idea actually....  the Empire in the process of restoring their ultimate weapon as a final hope to wrangle things in... it could be explained in the opening crawl and it would limit how much tweaking would need to be done.

 

also explains why Death Star 1 took 20 years to build while DS2 took a fraction of the time. (without making up lame EU excuses)

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I think the Leia/Luke relationship should be kept, but perhaps smoothed out a bit. Assuming good old Georgie was telling the truth for once, he had planned to spread the OT over six movies, and Luke wasn't supposed to find out that Leia was his sister until the second last movie or so, meaning the storyline would be able to play out a bit more naturally. Because it was only done in three movies, I think that makes it a bit more awkward, so that's probably why so many people have a problem with it.

I like Bingowings idea about the Death Star quite a bit.

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Really? I thought it was going to turn out that his sister was training on another planet, and that she and Luke were going to reunite around movie 7, and Kurtz suggested Leia being his sister to resolve the plot line. Whatever the reason, I can tell it wasn't planned from the beginning. Even Lucas' first draft of ESB had sexual tension between the two.

It's all quite disturbing, really.

I’m just here because I’m driving tonight.