Info & Ideas: ESB and ROTJ Wishlist — Page 209

Octorox said:

I know it doesn't apply in this situation. Star Wars is very classical 3-act based. I was just saying that I don't like the idea that it's "breaking the cardinal rule of filmmaking" to get away from the plot. I think someone who doesn't know a lot about film like Ghost could get the wrong idea from that statement.

Well, the intention was to point out what the conventions are. If Ghost wants to get into anything film related, he needs to know the rules before he tries to break them. The vast majority of films use the same structure. It's a fact. Yes, film is much more than that, and I totally encourage people to learn as much as they can about the medium and its history, but if someone wants a realistic chance of knowing what they're doing, they need to know the basics.

And getting away from the plot, regardless of structure, is breaking the cardinal rule of filmmaking. If you're trying to tell a story, then you stick to telling the story. It's that simple, regardless of the sort of movie you're making. Sorry, but it IS that simple.

Ghost said:

I think someone who doesn't know a lot about film like Ghost could get the wrong idea from that statement.

 

Look, I already cleared up what I meant to say. If you would read previous pages, you probably would have a better idea of what your talking about. I'm not that stupid to say break away from the plot.  I know alot about the film btw, believe me, that's why I'm here. 

I wasn't trying to insult you. Sorry.

Darth Venal said:

Octorox said:

I know it doesn't apply in this situation. Star Wars is very classical 3-act based. I was just saying that I don't like the idea that it's "breaking the cardinal rule of filmmaking" to get away from the plot. I think someone who doesn't know a lot about film like Ghost could get the wrong idea from that statement.

Well, the intention was to point out what the conventions are. If Ghost wants to get into anything film related, he needs to know the rules before he tries to break them. The vast majority of films use the same structure. It's a fact. Yes, film is much more than that, and I totally encourage people to learn as much as they can about the medium and its history, but if someone wants a realistic chance of knowing what they're doing, they need to know the basics.

And getting away from the plot, regardless of structure, is breaking the cardinal rule of filmmaking. If you're trying to tell a story, then you stick to telling the story. It's that simple, regardless of the sort of movie you're making. Sorry, but it IS that simple.

Yes, but still, continuity narrative filmmaking, not filmmaking in general. I'm sorry,  guess my argument is irrelevant to Star Wars, I guess I just don't deal in absolutes :p

Octorox said:

Darth Venal said:

Octorox said:

I know it doesn't apply in this situation. Star Wars is very classical 3-act based. I was just saying that I don't like the idea that it's "breaking the cardinal rule of filmmaking" to get away from the plot. I think someone who doesn't know a lot about film like Ghost could get the wrong idea from that statement.

Well, the intention was to point out what the conventions are. If Ghost wants to get into anything film related, he needs to know the rules before he tries to break them. The vast majority of films use the same structure. It's a fact. Yes, film is much more than that, and I totally encourage people to learn as much as they can about the medium and its history, but if someone wants a realistic chance of knowing what they're doing, they need to know the basics.

And getting away from the plot, regardless of structure, is breaking the cardinal rule of filmmaking. If you're trying to tell a story, then you stick to telling the story. It's that simple, regardless of the sort of movie you're making. Sorry, but it IS that simple.

Yes, but still, continuity narrative filmmaking, not filmmaking in general. I'm sorry,  guess my argument is irrelevant to Star Wars, I guess I just don't deal in absolutes :p

No, but apparently you do a good line in irrelevance.  :-p

We were talking about Star Wars, after all. I'm all ears if anyone wants to talk about film more broadly.

Ghost said:

Oh yah, I forgot about that.  I did read that 2 times and even showed it to other people.

I'm not thinking right now.

 

About the 005 page, are you guys for the Boba Fett changes? (the having him take the plans to the rebels).  It could work. I don't know how you would make the new scenes.  It would take him out of the SB battle, therefore shortning it.  How would you kill him off, the Falcon? 

This was Bingos idea. If this were late '82 and I worked for LFL at the time then yes, I'd definitely push for it.

But Fett's role should stay largely as is. We should just try to beef up the danger his character poses. I hate that he shoots at Luke on the skiff and misses. Heck, just have him aim. He should be a spot-on shooter. Having him miss more than once makes him too weak. And that's also how his death comes off. Maybe have the Sarlaac have to drag his ass into its maw? He won't go easily in other words.

So my position is to enhance his existing role with fixes and small stuff that will beef up his character.

I'd like to see him fight in the final space battle.  That could easily be done.  I'd take him out of the SB battle.  It would shorten the worst battle in the movies, and also not make Boba look like a total dumb ass.  They make him out to be all BA in ANH and ESB, then he looks rediculous in his battle. 

You cant just take him out of the whole movie, talk about an inconsistecy. 

Ghost said:

I'd like to see him fight in the final space battle.  That could easily be done.  I'd take him out of the SB battle.  It would shorten the worst battle in the movies, and also not make Boba look like a total dumb ass.  They make him out to be all BA in ANH...

Huh?  You lost me there.

Ghost said:

You cant just take him out of the whole movie, talk about an inconsistecy.

Where is the inconsistency?

Take him out of the SB battle, add him the the space battle.  I'd keep him in the Sail B Battle, but he looks totally stupid.

Where is the inconsistency?

Actually, you might be right, but it would be weird to not see him in ROTJ.

What I meant was, when is Fett in ANH?

True 005.  I'd still take him out of the SB battle, unless someone can make the battle unbelievable.

TV's Frink said:

What I meant was, when is Fett in ANH?

He means those things called the Special Editions.

But how was he bad ass in the ANH:SE?

All he did was walk up next to Jabba and STAND. And then he walked off and looked at the camera. I expected Lucas to add a CG helmet so it could wink at us.

Ghost said:

True 005.  I'd still take him out of the SB battle, unless someone can make the battle unbelievable.

Ok. I'm going to ask you a question:

Why does every single battle have to be unbelievable? Seriously, do you realize that if every battle in the films was unbelievable, they would NOT be unbelievable.

What makes something unbelievable is the difference from ordinary.

So these movies build towards bigger moments. That's why the climax is in the third act, not the first 30 mins.

shanerjedi said:

TV's Frink said:

What I meant was, when is Fett in ANH?

He means those things called the Special Editions.

Oh yeah, I heard something about that once.

Captain, we could have a shape shifter on board me thinks, and a troll.

shanerjedi said:

Ghost said:

True 005.  I'd still take him out of the SB battle, unless someone can make the battle unbelievable.

What makes something unbelievable is the difference from ordinary.

So these movies build towards bigger moments. That's why the climax is in the third act, not the first 30 mins.

I think that one's even above cardinal rules.

Darth Venal said:

shanerjedi said:

Ghost said:

True 005.  I'd still take him out of the SB battle, unless someone can make the battle unbelievable.

What makes something unbelievable is the difference from ordinary.

So these movies build towards bigger moments. That's why the climax is in the third act, not the first 30 mins.

I think that one's even above cardinal rules.

Yeah, I don't think Hollywood invented that. I think it was the Greeks. :)

Venal, that's a great picture of Darth Underused.

shanerjedi said:

Darth Venal said:

shanerjedi said:

Ghost said:

True 005.  I'd still take him out of the SB battle, unless someone can make the battle unbelievable.

What makes something unbelievable is the difference from ordinary.

So these movies build towards bigger moments. That's why the climax is in the third act, not the first 30 mins.

I think that one's even above cardinal rules.

Yeah, I don't think Hollywood invented that. I think it was the Greeks. :)

Cardinal rules, not carnal rules!

(In that case it would be about 15 minutes.)

Darth Venal said:

shanerjedi said:

Darth Venal said:

shanerjedi said:

Ghost said:

True 005.  I'd still take him out of the SB battle, unless someone can make the battle unbelievable.

What makes something unbelievable is the difference from ordinary.

So these movies build towards bigger moments. That's why the climax is in the third act, not the first 30 mins.

I think that one's even above cardinal rules.

Yeah, I don't think Hollywood invented that. I think it was the Greeks. :)

Cardinal rules, not carnal rules!

(In that case it would be about 15 minutes.)

Haha! Ah geez. You know what I meant by Greeks. Storytelling! :p

shanerjedi said:

Darth Venal said:

shanerjedi said:

Darth Venal said:

shanerjedi said:

Ghost said:

True 005.  I'd still take him out of the SB battle, unless someone can make the battle unbelievable.

What makes something unbelievable is the difference from ordinary.

So these movies build towards bigger moments. That's why the climax is in the third act, not the first 30 mins.

I think that one's even above cardinal rules.

Yeah, I don't think Hollywood invented that. I think it was the Greeks. :)

Cardinal rules, not carnal rules!

(In that case it would be about 15 minutes.)

Haha! Ah geez. You know what I meant by Greeks. Storytelling! :p

 

 

Yeah I did, but I couldn't resist. :-)

You know, we sing the praises of of explorers and scientists and all the great minds in our history, but no-one ever mentions the guy who discovered that the conclusion of a story should go at the end. I mean, the guy deserves some recognition, no?

Darth Venal said:

shanerjedi said:

Darth Venal said:

shanerjedi said:

Darth Venal said:

shanerjedi said:

Ghost said:

True 005.  I'd still take him out of the SB battle, unless someone can make the battle unbelievable.

What makes something unbelievable is the difference from ordinary.

So these movies build towards bigger moments. That's why the climax is in the third act, not the first 30 mins.

I think that one's even above cardinal rules.

Yeah, I don't think Hollywood invented that. I think it was the Greeks. :)

Cardinal rules, not carnal rules!

(In that case it would be about 15 minutes.)

Haha! Ah geez. You know what I meant by Greeks. Storytelling! :p

 

 

Yeah I did, but I couldn't resist. :-)

You know, we sing the praises of of explorers and scientists and all the great minds in our history, but no-one ever mentions the guy who discovered that the conclusion of a story should go at the end. I mean, the guy deserves some recognition, no?

I believe that was Ric's revelation

Oh hell, I should have known that.

Ric, help. I'm having trouble with my script. Not sure where to put the opening. Any tips?