Info: - Greedo & Jabba subtitles, theatrical placement and fonts - — Page 3

ChainsawAsh said:

Moth3r said:

Add the subs, then add simulated grain (from a filter such as GrainFactory3) using a transparency mask so that the grain is only applied over the subtitle text.

I'd vote for this option.  The first sounds too destructive to the picture for my tastes.

...

How does it sound destructive? The picture information (except for the part covered by the text, obviously) ends up unchanged. It's simple maths: if x - y = z, then z + y = x. 

Moth3r said:

The premise is quite simple, although it will take a bit of messing around with AviSynth's Overlay or Layer functions.

The way I see it, there are two approaches you could try:

Starting with the output from the g-force script, run it through a very strong denoiser to completely scrub all grain - but generate a "difference" clip from the source and cleaned video. Apply the subtitles, then overlay the difference clip. This is essentially adding the grain that was removed back in, only this time it will be on top of the subs.

or

Add the subs, then add simulated grain (from a filter such as GrainFactory3) using a transparency mask so that the grain is only applied over the subtitle text.

That is great Moth3r! I'd like to try it out, I really don't know but I think the first method would generate the best results but it seems a little more complicated at least to me, I'll take a look at those options as soon as I've finished the timings and positioning of the subs and see if I can handle it or not, otherwise maybe someone else could help me to implement it to the script.

dark_jedi, on the same old Jedi LD you have, is the line "I want fifty thousand. No less." there or not. Can you also check the other lines I was uncertain of earlier in the thread just for the sake of it. It looks like I have to use the home video timings for all the remaining subs afterall, if you don't have an ace in your pocket, dark_jedi.

Unfortunately the only timings for the subs I have at the moment are Dr. Gonzos DC LD and I don't know how reliable they're. The one line that differ the most in it compared to the Gout is "I like Captain Solo where he is." but one thing is for sure the Gout subtitles cannot be trusted they are among the worst piece of shit I've ever seen on a DVD and that goes for the regular subs too, my plan is to fix them too and remove all the hard of hearing notes.

I'll post some video clips soon...

Thanks, I'll include that line then.

A video sample, most for demonstrating the font size and width...

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=UD0L9803

I've managed to get an almost exact match in positioning and size this time, have not improved the drop shadow yet, if it's even possible with this method? I think it will look pretty damn good when the possible grain structure is applied.

Let me know what you think.

I don't know what the problem is with megaupload, I had the same experience with ABC's links sometimes. The link should work though try copy and paste.

Just keep trying. It'll work eventually. Always does.

...And just when I uploaded it to sendspace ;)

http://www.sendspace.com/file/h93l69

sorry about the lack of audio

ChainsawAsh said:

Alright, I just finished watching the test.  It looks very good, but here's 2 critiques for making it better:

The subs definitely need to be blurred slightly to fit with the slightly-blurred GOUT picture.

I definitely agree with you, it doesn't seem to be such a function available in the internal filters though, I'll have to check the Avisynth site and see what kind of subfilters I can use. You also have to keep in mind that the clips I've posted have no filters applied at all, pure Gout quality! only resized to 16:9, so I think it will look slightly better through g-force's script.

ChainsawAsh said:

You tend to have the subs end a couple frames before the shot changes.  I'd keep the subs visible until the last frame of the shot if it's that close - that way, it's a more natural transition, since you're changing the entire image anyway.  That's part of what I don't like about player-generated subtitles - they almost always go a little too far after the cut, or end a little bit earlier, whereas most burned-in subtitles will end ON the cut.

For example, "I told you not to admit him" needs to end 2 frames later, as do "You weak-minded fool," "Your mind powers will not work on me, boy," "There will be no bargain, young Jedi," and "I shall enjoy watching you die."  "He's using an old Jedi mind trick" is perfect, though!

So you did notice them, good eyes! Those timings you didn't like is actually corrected to the authentic theatrical ones, haven't corrected the timings for the others yet. If you look at the Empire of Dreams footage you'll see that they all have two frames free from subs before and after the cuts, I also did the same for the line "I shall enjoy watching you die." If you, dark_jedi or anyone else don't like the timings, I can of course change it back but I just thought it would be nice to make it as close as possible to the real deal. Anyway, thanks for your comments. I'm glad you liked them. :)

The only thing that disturbs me about this font is the letters o, c, e and the slightly bigger dots, and I also had to type in the capital letters Y as a stand alone subtitle to make it closer to the second letter! it left a big space for some reason, a little tiresome but worth it in the end.

Sorry dark_jedi if you have already encoded Star Wars but I think I might be able to improve the Greedo subs, just to let you know...

I've updated the script & the clip on the first page.

Just downloaded that ROTJ file. Yowza! It's like Firefox forgot how to block pop-ups for a minute. I got around 6 of them all at once! :p Edit: am now downloading the SW one and no pop-ups. I guess it smartened up quickly. Heh.

Anyway, they both look good! Sharp text, but not too sharp. ;) Can't tell for sure if that "TV safe zone" issue CA is talking about would be an issue or not without seeing it on my TV. I think it would be ok, though. I'm looking at it on a 4:3 monitor and would watch it on a 4:3 TV, so it should fit the same, right? And there's plenty of room.

Yeah, I'd be watching on a CRT TV. I still think it would be ok, though. Does the PS3 play m2v? I could check. :p

ChainsawAsh said:

"It's too late.  You should have paid him when you had the chance" seems like it might be just outside the "TV safe" zone.  Same with "...who drop their shipments at the first sign of an Imperial cruiser."

Yeah, those two lines is what makes it problematic, they are dangerously close the "TV safe" zone this time but I checked them against Moth3r's "pwnage" subs on my TV that have irritating large overscan so I didn't went over line, so they should be ok. I really hope they are, otherwise is there any good way to check it to be entirely sure?

ChainsawAsh said:

And I still don't know where I stand on the "two frames" issue ... it still bugs me, but it's how it was originally, right?

Yes, those three lines in my Jedi clip are corrected against the Empire of Dreams footage that I believe to be original but the timings for SW is taken from Moth3r's bootleg telecine and double checked against the 16mm transfer. Like them or not that's how they were in the theater ;) I can still change the Jedi timings if you guys want me to.