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Info: 1992 VHS Set - Star Wars Trilogy Special Letterbox Collector's Edition - any special and/or redeeming qualities?

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Is this set worthy of a Panasonic AG-1980 capture? Does it have any special and/or redeeming qualities?

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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 (Edited)

Did you find a way round the Macrovision thing? Did The Phantom Menace defeat your new set up?

Edit: I just realized in my haste I completely blanked the original topic. apologies. if you are tackling this set I was eager to find out if you managed to tame the macrovision thing that seemed to have killed the PM tape or were you able to get round it

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frank678 said:

Did you find a way round the Macrovision thing? Did The Phantom Menace defeat your new set up?

Edit: I just realized in my haste I completely blanked the original topic. apologies. if you are tackling this set I was eager to find out if you managed to tame the macrovision thing that seemed to have killed the PM tape or were you able to get round it

Don't worry about it!

My setup chews right through TPM's Macrovision. The image is crisp and stable; almost as good as a DVD!

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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 (Edited)

AntcuFaalb said:

Is this set worthy of a Panasonic AG-1980 capture? Does it have any special and/or redeeming qualities?

Following earlier comments, you will not be surprised to learn that I believe this is worth preserving even though it is no more special than any other VHS release

It is the first and only pre-THX Widescreen/Letterbox US NTSC VHS release (the other Widescreen VHS release is the THX Faces set which is also worthy of a transfer). ***Edited after comment in Post 9***

It is "assumed" to have the 1985 remix soundtrack for ANH so include the tractor beam line. The truth is, we do not know for sure until someone tells us.

What I found with my PAL VHS transfers is that I did not find the reason to do the transfers until I had actually done them!!

 

I found one set that was a different film length for each film, different colourings, different pan and scan shots and different intros of the FOX logo or the logo missing completely and no fanfare

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/OBITUARY-Star-Wars-Fullscreen-Pan-and-Scan-versions-RIP/topic/13517/

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/PAL-VHS-Archive-Collection/topic/3829/

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/OBITUARY-Star-Wars-Fullscreen-Pan-and-Scan-versions-RIP/post/552473/#TopicPost552473

 

Once I had the setup to do what I wanted - however limited - I took the chance to transfer as many versions as possible.

In truth, there is not a lot of resource for US NTSC VHS out there but here is what I know of...

http://www.davisdvd.com/misc/starwars/ep4.htm">http://www.davisdvd.com/misc/starwars/ep4.htm" target="_blank" title="web.archive.org/web/20070923102254/http://www.davisdvd.com/misc/starwars/ep4.htm">http://web.archive.org/web/20070923102254/http://www.davisdvd.com/misc/starwars/ep4.htm

and of course   http://swonvideo.com/

 

 

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russs15 said:

AntcuFaalb said:

Is this set worthy of a Panasonic AG-1980 capture? Does it have any special and/or redeeming qualities?

Following earlier comments, you will not be surprised to learn that I believe this is worth preserving even though it is no more special than any other VHS release

It is the first and only pre-THX Widescreen/Letterbox US NTSC VHS release (the other is the Faces set which is also worthy of a transfer).

It is "assumed" to have the 1985 remix soundtrack for ANH so include the tractor beam line. The truth is, we do not know for sure until someone tells us.

What I found with my PAL VHS transfers is that I did not find the reason to do the transfers until I had actually done them!!

 

I found one set that was a different film length for each film, different colourings, different pan and scan shots and different intros of the FOX logo or the logo missing completely and no fanfare

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/OBITUARY-Star-Wars-Fullscreen-Pan-and-Scan-versions-RIP/topic/13517/

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/PAL-VHS-Archive-Collection/topic/3829/

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/OBITUARY-Star-Wars-Fullscreen-Pan-and-Scan-versions-RIP/post/552473/#TopicPost552473

 

Once I had the setup to do what I wanted - however limited - I took the chance to transfer as many versions as possible.

In truth, there is not a lot of resource for US NTSC VHS out there but here is what I know of...

http://www.davisdvd.com/misc/starwars/ep4.htm">http://www.davisdvd.com/misc/starwars/ep4.htm" target="_blank" title="web.archive.org/web/20070923102254/http://www.davisdvd.com/misc/starwars/ep4.htm">http://web.archive.org/web/20070923102254/http://www.davisdvd.com/misc/starwars/ep4.htm

and of course   http://swonvideo.com/

 

 

Thanks for the information! I agree that it's definitely worth preserving.

I'll make my first attempt at obtaining a new set tonight.

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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Looking at the first three frames russs15 posted in the link below, 1984-9, I would be a bit sceptical that even if the exact same master is thought to be used for consecutive versions over a period of years, that some minor differences might still not emerge. It depends if you think these are worth spending time (or money) investigating. Maybe some people in the early days of the forum already investigated all this and laserdisc won everytime so there was no vhs preservations worth archiving. But what if a specific aspect fell through the cracks?

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Help-Im-new/post/582999/#TopicPost582999

I'm interested to know if the tapes from different european countries were any different or australian tapes??

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The first film uses the same transfer as the Special Widescreen Edition, 1993 Technidisc pressing. (In fact, I believe it first appeared on VHS, before the LD repressing.)

Empire and Jedi, AFAIK, match the SWE discs, including Jedi's letterboxing still being shifted up like the Japanese Special Collection.

As for PAL, the pre-THX PAL widescreen transfers are confusing. The French/German widescreen LDs seem to use a different source element than the NTSC JSC/SWE transfer. I know that unlike the JSC/SWE, the French and German releases switched to an awful, dark, faded, grainy dupe for the subtitle-less Greedo scene.

The 1991 UK widescreen tapes, however, seem to be converted from the NTSC widescreen transfers seen on the JSC/SWE discs. The weird yellow-green hues in that Empire frame are evidence of this. And as Russ said waaaaay back in 2005:

For some bizarre reason, the 1991 Trilogy Special Widescreen Edition films are approx 4% longer than the other releases I have.

Star Wars 118 mins and 122 mins
Empire 119 mins and 125 mins
Jedi 126 mins and 132 mins

It is almost as if there is some type of framerate compensation to make the films play for the same length of time as the same as the theatrical and NTSC versions.

It appears that he was right, and they just transferred the NTSC versions to PAL. I would bet that the first film even has the "shrinking ratio" problem.

In comparison, it would seem that that the later UK widescreen tapes used the "PAL GOUT" transfers seen on the French "Coffret Trilogie" LD set.

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Which all goes to back up my thoughts that once we have a particular release "in captivity" we will know for sure exactly what each release was the same as or different to. Phrases like "I assume" and "AFAIK" will become a thing of the past.

Once everything has been captured and logged here, people can then quote hard facts that you posted seven years ago which again justifies what I did.

The best recent example is the CED releases. We speculated for years but now we have proof.

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I posted a bunch of screen captures of this set here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Pre-93-Special-LD-transfers/topic/12399/page/4/

My capture card isn't the best, and I didn't calibrate it at all (whites are way blown out), but you get the idea. It's not going to look very good on anything but an analogue TV, and even there you're going to notice the "jaggies".

 

russs15 said:

It is the first and only pre-THX Widescreen/Letterbox US NTSC VHS release (the other is the Faces set which is also worthy of a transfer).

 I thought "Faces" was THX?

 

russs15 said:

It is "assumed" to have the 1985 remix soundtrack for ANH so include the tractor beam line. The truth is, we do not know for sure until someone tells us.

 The "tractor beam" line is in it.

 

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Those screenshots look very good and show what could be achieved with a capture using top class equipment.

I have amended my comments in Post 4 re pre-THX and THX Widescreen releases. It looked right when I wrote it but was plainly confusing. Sorry about that!!

Thanks also for confirming the presence of the tractor beam line in the 92 release. Now, we no longer have to assume.....

Having got three PAL VHS ANH tapes from 87, 88 and 89 without the expected 1985 remix tractor beam line, anything could happen. Top this with the very recent 1991 Jap LD diGital SOUND with the same "original"  mix and again, no tractor beam line, we cannot assume anything.

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I now own a like-new copy (ROTJ opened; ANH and TESB sealed). It should arrive on Tuesday, 10 July. I'll capture it whenever I'm finished with PS78. Yay!

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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AntcuFaalb said:

I now own a like-new copy (ROTJ opened; ANH and TESB sealed). It should arrive on Tuesday, 10 July. I'll capture it whenever I'm finished with PS78. Yay!

 Nice. One thing myscamore mentions in his Technidisc thread is he was unhappy with the white balance via his set-up. The stills Asaki linked of his VHS capture look like they have just fractionally cleaner/lighter whites. It will be interesting to see your results on this tape, especially as its fresh out the box!

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russs15 said:

Which all goes to back up my thoughts that once we have a particular release "in captivity" we will know for sure exactly what each release was the same as or different to. Phrases like "I assume" and "AFAIK" will become a thing of the past.

Once everything has been captured and logged here, people can then quote hard facts that you posted seven years ago which again justifies what I did.

 

props to russs15 here, its easy to cross reference all this stuff when someone else has gone to the trouble of capturing and storing all this stuff for years for the benefit of people like me who can just arrive and access that info in seconds

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AntcuFaalb said:

frank678 said:

Did you find a way round the Macrovision thing? Did The Phantom Menace defeat your new set up?

Edit: I just realized in my haste I completely blanked the original topic. apologies. if you are tackling this set I was eager to find out if you managed to tame the macrovision thing that seemed to have killed the PM tape or were you able to get round it

Don't worry about it!

My setup chews right through TPM's Macrovision. The image is crisp and stable; almost as good as a DVD!

If you can get that crisp of an image I'd love a copy for future projects.  My TMP VHS had some play in them so I'd love something solid.

Cheers!!!!

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frank678 said:

AntcuFaalb said:

I now own a like-new copy (ROTJ opened; ANH and TESB sealed). It should arrive on Tuesday, 10 July. I'll capture it whenever I'm finished with PS78. Yay!

 Nice. One thing myscamore mentions in his Technidisc thread is he was unhappy with the white balance via his set-up. The stills Asaki linked of his VHS capture look like they have just fractionally cleaner/lighter whites. It will be interesting to see your results on this tape, especially as its fresh out the box!

 Like I said, I didn't calibrate the picture or anything. The whites are way blown out compared to how it looks on an actual TV.

Also, there's lots of rainbow colored interference from the VRC itself. I just wanted some quick shots, so I didn't bother averaging multiple shots together or anything fancy like that.

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Asaki said:

frank678 said:

... The stills Asaki linked of his VHS capture look like they have just fractionally cleaner/lighter whites. It will be interesting to see your results on this tape, especially as its fresh out the box!

 Like I said, I didn't calibrate the picture or anything. The whites are way blown out compared to how it looks on an actual TV.

Also, there's lots of rainbow colored interference from the VRC itself. I just wanted some quick shots, so I didn't bother averaging multiple shots together or anything fancy like that.

 Sorry, my brain didn't process the blown out whites info, in my haste to click the link. Its wierd even though I know its bad for the image integrity there is something appealing to me about upsetting levels if it makes the image feel more open or light somehow. I think this is a wierd subjective taste of mine (like people who set the treble really high on their stereo). This is a good reason why I should never do my own project with these sources.

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Here's my tweak (2nd attempt) on a still from one of myscamore's new technidisc clips to give you an example of the above statement:

ORIG

http://i45.tinypic.com/2qda9m9.jpg

TWEAK 2

http://i46.tinypic.com/1z4xquo.jpg

Now the thing is I can't get this result by moving the sliders in vlc image adjust (i.e. plus or minus contrast, brightness, etc). myscamores original seems to be the most balanced and correct result with the way those sliders interelate (a push even a little in any direction and you start losing information altogether). The result I got was done by using the curve tool against the graph of the levels- which *I think* is a less linear or fixed interelation of adjustment aspects. It brings levels up between points at different speeds so to speak. I also added a duplicate layer which seems to be adding to the image in a less linear way than just adjusting the original sliders. Now, whether my result grabs you or not, my speculative question is whether rather than summing or merging linear captures, is whether there is some way to 'weave' a new duplicate out of a moving graph of the initial capture using a fixed or modulating 'response' curve. Or merge multiple captures with different settings in different percentages to improve on a single capture. [thus improving on the best-on-average setting via a more automated correction process]???

Or if that sounds a bit too like rambling nonsense - does anyone have any ideas how to lift out the darkness embedded in this master a bit without blowing out the whites?? Is there actually much room for manouevre on this?

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AntcuFaalb said:

frank678 said:

Did you find a way round the Macrovision thing? Did The Phantom Menace defeat your new set up?

Edit: I just realized in my haste I completely blanked the original topic. apologies. if you are tackling this set I was eager to find out if you managed to tame the macrovision thing that seemed to have killed the PM tape or were you able to get round it

Don't worry about it!

My setup chews right through TPM's Macrovision. The image is crisp and stable; almost as good as a DVD!

 

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 (Edited)

frank678 said:

Here's my tweak (2nd attempt) on a still from one of myscamore's new technidisc clips to give you an example of the above statement:

ORIG

http://i45.tinypic.com/2qda9m9.jpg

TWEAK 2

http://i46.tinypic.com/1z4xquo.jpg

 

Or if that sounds a bit too like rambling nonsense - does anyone have any ideas how to lift out the darkness embedded in this master a bit without blowing out the whites?? Is there actually much room for manouevre on this?

here's our uncorrected version of it:

--

(and a picture from 4 frames earlier)..

later

-1

[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]

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So the light blue sky was always already blown out somewhat on the technidisc master anyway - by the (contrast?) settings used by the operator?

 

PS78:

http://i45.tinypic.com/rsfsw5.jpg

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frank678 said:

So the light blue sky was always already blown out somewhat on the technidisc master anyway - by the (contrast?) settings used by the operator? 

 

Yes, there's some clipped whites in the Technidisc master where the GOUT actually fare better but overall it's not as bad, some examples of clipped whites can be seen when the stormtroopers blow up the hatch on the blockade runner, in the attack of the sandpeople and the subsequent scenes following it with Ben, and somewhat in these Mos Eisley scenes, but part of why the sky look like it does here is because there exist almost no blue in the highlights at this point, it can be corrected:

I may have adjusted the green midtones a tad too much though but you get the idea.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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Well as we discussed elsewhere, the 35mm version has a lot of white clipping that may or may not have been intentional.

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Asaki said:

Well as we discussed elsewhere, the 35mm version has a lot of white clipping that may or may not have been intentional.

 

god damnit i keep finding out stuff that adds another layer of complexity to all this stuff.

look at this deleted scene in the first half of the sky turns white, they turn a corner and its blue again??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsDE7o_o26E

here is a tweaked still from pre-anh bootleg:

 

http://i46.tinypic.com/1z1wpvk.jpg

 

Although this has probably the most original information packed into it of all versions - thats what it feels like to me: that it's too packed in. The packed-in-ness is making it feel to dark and heavy. Why I prefer the PS78 is there seems to be more space and air in the mid range so it feels more lifelike

 

edit: i wonder if this packed in-ness combined with deliberate blown out whites is what makes some things look so wierd when its transfered 'down'= why the flesh tones burn so much - this is especially wierd on catnap bootleg

2nd edit: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcdkap_the-making-of-star-wars-1-4-1977_shortfilms#

(around 12.37) If you look at the general conditions on the day this was shot, and the one thing that does seem like a clear fact - that mark hamill was not beet red from sunburn, then you get closer to how it all fits together maybe. the more i look at this stuff the more it seems like the relationship between colours adds or minus to the sense of lightness or heaviness, if the relationship is screwed up to begin with then plus or minus brightness isnt going to completely undo that

3rd edit: Theres something about the relationship between the darkness of the hair and the blown out sky that doesnt seem to gel / work

http://i45.tinypic.com/bgo9dg.jpg

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AntcuFaalb, I wish I had seen this thread earlier as I have a copy of this in my basement that should be in very good shape - the tapes were played very few times.  I don't have a use for it, so I would be happy to ship it to you for any kind of preservation effort.  Any reason you need a second copy?

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Should I grab a new copy of the 1990 P/S release as well? Any interest?

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3