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If you need to C*mplain about the CGI Grand Moff Tarkin in Rogue One... this is the place

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He looks weird and out of place. Why they didn’t recast Cushing or not have the character at all, I’ll never know. It’s also strange to consider who they’re willing to recast and who they aren’t. Why isn’t Mon Mothma a CGI character? I also find the concept incredibly creepy. Peter Cushing did not agree to star in a film decades after he died.

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Why did this need it’s own thread again?

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

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They could’ve gone the Blofeld in From Russia With Love and Thunderball route and not shown his face. Only have him looking out the window, had an impersonator do the voice.

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SilverWook said:

Why did this need it’s own thread again?

It’s a thread dedicated to a major character in one of the Star Wars films, and I think it can serve as a place for discussion on the use of CGI to insert other actors, like Carrie Fisher or Harrison Ford or anyone else, into future Star Wars films.

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

They could’ve gone the Blofeld in From Russia With Love and Thunderball route and not shown his face. Only have him looking out the window, had an impersonator do the voice.

That would’ve been perfect!

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Ok. I thought we discussed the CGI Tarkin issue at length in the year since R1 came out though.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Not sure that this question needs its own thread, but anyway, I need to complain!

He is completely missed, it looks like a character of Tomb Raider, I do not believe for a second. Each of his appearances made me leave the film.
And I’m not talking about ethical issues related to this …

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moviefreakedmind said:

I’m going to be completely honest, and it’ll make me sound conspiratorial and a little crazy, but I actually don’t believe anyone that says they “completely” bought the CGI Tarkin. I’ll buy that they didn’t think it was CGI since the idea of using computer animation to insert a deceased actor into a film and give the model a prominent role is still pretty insane to most people, but there’s no way that they didn’t have a thought in the back of their head along the lines of, “This looks weird.”

Not everyone is as sophisticated as we are, mentally dissecting every aspect of a film as we watch. My companions are not horror film fans and were not even aware Peter Cushing was no longer among the living until I brought it up.
Also, I saw R1 in 70mm IMAX twice, not digital. Tarkin held up pretty well, only one or two shots seemed off to me, but I was scrutinizing it more.

As for any ethical issue, Cushing’s estate gave it’s blessing.

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Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:

As for any ethical issue, Cushing’s estate gave it’s blessing.

OK, so there is no legal issue. But I am not sure that an estate’s blessing is enough to eliminate any ethical issue.

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My stepdad and wife were actually truly surprised to find out that Tarkin was a digital creation. (They figured Carrie Fisher was one).

My one real issue with the R1 Tarkin is that he was too expressive. Cushing’s performance in ANH was much more subtle so it therefore no longer felt like the same performance. Were it another actor, it’d be different - a different interpretation if you will. But because his face was realistically recreated, it made all of the grimacing and snarling and raised eyebrows that more off putting.

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Is it just me or is Gollum from LOTR and The Hobbit the most realistic CG character?

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paja said:

Is it just me or is Gollum from LOTR and The Hobbit the most realistic CG character?

+1

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paja said:

Is it just me or is Gollum from LOTR and The Hobbit the most realistic CG character?

Gollum is in a movie full of CGI characters and human like races (elves, dwarfs, hobbits) but only 1 is actually human. Gollum is also represented in CGI in all movies. Also because his face is not exactly human but that of a magically altered hobbit, it’s a lot easier to accept how he looks than if it was meant to represent the face of a real life human.

Peter Cushing was a real actor in a movie where all humans are portrayed by real human actors, all the other races are clearly alien and portrayed with puppets or masks. He is then represented with CGI in another movie while surrounded by real actors, it stands out like dogs balls even if they didn’t shove his CGI face directly in the camera multiple times. As commented by someone else, they also didn’t accurately capture his mannerisms. If he didn’t actually say anything when the camera was on his face it would have been much more convincing.

Both him and Leia could have just been done with with them looking away from the camera, even just a silhouette in the case of Leia with her hair buns. Heck, they didn’t even need to show Leia, just have her voice and not even that as you’ve already recognised the ship exterior and interior by then. There were plenty enough clues to figure out who’s ship they were on and what the story was connecting into.

.Val

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Mavimao said:

My one real issue with the R1 Tarkin is that he was too expressive. Cushing’s performance in ANH was much more subtle so it therefore no longer felt like the same performance. Were it another actor, it’d be different - a different interpretation if you will. But because his face was realistically recreated, it made all of the grimacing and snarling and raised eyebrows that more off putting.

This right here. Cushing’s face barely moved in ANH; he emoted almost entirely with his eyes. Combine the more expressive facial animations with that weirdly smooth CGI motion and you get TarkinBot.

That said, Leia’s toothy grin weirded me out more.

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I’ve said this a few times, but I’ll say it again:
I didn’t buy it being Peter Cushing, but I did buy it being Tarkin.
Peter Cushing is one of my favorite actors, and I could tear the R1 performance to shreds, but it’s good enough that I can buy into it being that character, just not that actor.
It works for me.

Ray’s Lounge Biggs in ANH edit idea ROTJ opening edit idea

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ZigZig said:

SilverWook said:

As for any ethical issue, Cushing’s estate gave it’s blessing.

OK, so there is no legal issue. But I am not sure that an estate’s blessing is enough to eliminate any ethical issue.

I think this is important because Peter Cushing definitely did not agree to star in a film made decades after his death, regardless of however much money his estate was given. I also am curious how you all would feel when and if they do CGI Mark Hamill, Carrie Fisher, Harrison Ford, Alec Guinness, and whoever else they want to recreate. I think it sets a very creepy precedent.

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SilverWook said:

Not everyone is as sophisticated as we are, mentally dissecting every aspect of a film as we watch.

This does not describe me. I am not sophisticated, and I do not mentally dissect every aspect of films that I watch. I’m extremely forgiving of a lot of things, including the ending to The Stand. I don’t think my complaints about Tarkin are nitpicks.

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ray_afraid said:

I’ve said this a few times, but I’ll say it again:
I didn’t buy it being Peter Cushing, but I did buy it being Tarkin.
Peter Cushing is one of my favorite actors, and I could tear the R1 performance to shreds, but it’s good enough that I can buy into it being that character, just not that actor.
It works for me.

Agreed.

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moviefreakedmind said:

ZigZig said:

SilverWook said:

As for any ethical issue, Cushing’s estate gave it’s blessing.

OK, so there is no legal issue. But I am not sure that an estate’s blessing is enough to eliminate any ethical issue.

I think this is important because Peter Cushing definitely did not agree to star in a film made decades after his death, regardless of however much money his estate was given. I also am curious how you all would feel when and if they do CGI Mark Hamill, Carrie Fisher, Harrison Ford, Alec Guinness, and whoever else they want to recreate. I think it sets a very creepy precedent.

If they start using CGI to recreate dead actors to be in films they had no association with, then it will become a weird, creepy thing. But in this instance, I feel they didn’t recreate Peter Cushing, they recreated Governor Tarkin.

Ray’s Lounge Biggs in ANH edit idea ROTJ opening edit idea

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I see your point, but if that’s the case then why not recast? You said yourself that you bought him as Tarkin but not as Cushing.

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