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How much longer will the format war last? — Page 2

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So were uncompressed PCM, full bitrate Dolby Digital, and full bitrate DTS. A laserdisc's two-channel PCM Dolby Pro Logic mix put through a modern Dolby Pro Logic IIx decoder actually sounds better than most of the Dolby Digital tracks I've heard on DVD. And Saving Private Ryan DTS on LD...WOW.

And since the video was uncompressed, LD fast-forward and rewind still kick DVD's ass. So much smoother and incremental.

But yeah, other than all those things, LDs sucked.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
So were uncompressed PCM, full bitrate Dolby Digital, and full bitrate DTS. A laserdisc's two-channel PCM Dolby Pro Logic mix put through a modern Dolby Pro Logic IIx decoder actually sounds better than most of the Dolby Digital tracks I've heard on DVD. And Saving Private Ryan DTS on LD...WOW.

And since the video was uncompressed, LD fast-forward and rewind still kick DVD's ass. So much smoother and incremental.

But yeah, other than all those things, LDs sucked.

Yeah, I miss the nice big jog wheel on DVD player remotes. That is an awesome feature of LD!

Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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Sweeney, how old are you? You're picked on (especially in the Politics thread) for your constant fallacies, so now you hurl that out now when you disagree with somebody. I'm not sure you really understand logic or fallacies, and it makes you come off either (a) a troll (b) young and inexperienced (c) woefully misinformed or (d) carrying a chip on your shoulder. Or maybe a combination of more than one of those. I see that all over this board. Unfortunately it weakens your own arguments and drags down those who would otherwise sympathize with you. Guilt by association (a fallacy in its own right). Have you had a course in philosophy, debate, or argumentative writing? Because your posts suggest "no" to all three. I heartily suggest studying all three. It is one thing to have an opinion on matters, another entirely to effectively debate those opinions.

The appropriate answer to Arnie.d's comment "Why pay more for another analog format if it's more of the same?" would be to state that Laserdisc was NOT more of the same. Laserdisc (a) delivered and analog picture that was superior to VHS. (b) It was in a relatively non-degrading format. (c) On titles that bothered to implement it, it offered AC3 encoding to consumers with AC3 playback capabilities. And (d) it regularly offered supplemental features that VHS didn't. Things like documentaries and deleted scenes.

Laserdisc was the precursor to DVD, and DVD wouldn't be what it is (or perhaps not even exist at all) without Laserdisc paving the way for it. DVD built on what was successful about LD while correcting most of its flaws. It was the first home entertainment format to offer bells and whistles.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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Looks like the format war could be coming to an official end even sooner than we thought:

http://thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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The lesser of two evils in the long run

We can finally move beyond ntsc/pal limitations, although nothing will ever beat seeing something on film or in 4k. Prolonging the format war would probably have meant a lower price for a blu-ray player when I eventually end up wanting one, but we're only going from one type of optical disc (standard def dvd) to another type (hi-def optical disc). This couldn't have gone on for years and years like beta/vhs, and even after that you didn't see hybrid players being mass-produced. That worked for vinyls (I'm not sure what the history behind why that happened is), and there was the interesting argument that "some transfers only need 25 gigs, some only need 30, some need all 50," but it would seem economics is dictating that only one format can exist. At least it's the one with more space.

The "hddvd is cheaper to manufacture" argument would have been great if anyone could have definitively proven to me that the studios were passing the savings on to the customer. I mean, when WB released combo discs the same day as the blu-ray, shouldn't the combo disc have been the same price and not five dollars more?

Out of curiosity, I would like to hear anyone's arguments for an indefinite dual-format situation being better.
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You can argue that Blu-ray is technically superior, but with region coding, mandatory AACS, and BD+, you can hardly call it the lesser of the two evils.

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Originally posted by: Moth3r
You can argue that Blu-ray is technically superior, but with region coding, mandatory AACS, and BD+, you can hardly call it the lesser of the two evils.


I'll willingly trade that for a higher bitrate and almost twice the space.

The Secret History of Star Wars -- now available on Amazon.com!

"When George went back and put new creatures into the original Star Wars, I find that disturbing. It’s a revision of history. That bothers me."

--James Cameron, Entertainment Weekly, April 2010

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Anyone who thinks size is all that matters should head over to the Doom9 forums and ask the experts why more space doesn't necessarily translate into better quality. You'll be told how quality depends on a lot more than raw bitrate, and how codecs max out above a certain level.

Being able to get content from other countries can come in quite handy, and unlike the situation we had in the early days of DVD, region-free Blu-ray standalone players are limited in number and unreasonably expensive.

I care about what I can do with movies I pay good money for (think fan edits, format shifting, creating back ups, etc.) so I will be staying away from Blu-ray.

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Don't you think region coding, AACS and BD+ will be beaten?
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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Originally posted by: lordjedi
Looks like the format war could be coming to an official end even sooner than we thought:

http://thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents


O_O

WEEKS?! Holy crap! Well, that settles it. I'm putting a PS3 on my Santa Claus list. As soon as the HD-DVD honchos throw in the towel, no more newly-released DVDs for me.

EDIT: I just realized while browsing Wikipedia: with the exception of the Dreamcast (which didn't make it to the endgame like its competitors), the PS2 was the weakest of the sixth generation consoles, yet it sold far away the best. Now, the PS3 is the most powerful of the seventh generation consoles so far, and it's getting its ass kicked. What's up with that? [/Seinfeld]
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Yeah, I always thought the PS2 thing was funny. But look at the alternatives, we have the GameCube, which really didn't have that much going for it. Unless you were a Nintendo fan, there just were not that many games that were GC exclusive. Xbox had a lot better games than GC did, and some extremely good Xbox exclusives, but I think the PS2 really rode off of the fame and popularity of its older brother and its wide variety of games. Not to mention all the fanboys who were waiting in line to buy them even back when virtually no games for it existed.

The PS3 is pretty cool. I still haven gotten over the Spider-Man movie font it uses for its logo, but it is a really slick system and the Blu-Ray player just makes it that much better of a system. PS2s ability to play DVDs wasn't that big of a deal, but given that the PS3 came around during the middle of a format war and when HD players where at top dollar, it really adds a lot of value to the system. Now that Blu-ray has won out, it'll make the PS3 an even more practical buy. I think the PS3's problem as far as low sales goes, is that it is pretty expensive. You can get a Wii for half the price. Even at its reduced price of $450, it is $100 dollars more than the Xbox.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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That and they keep making more expensive versions of it. First 20GB, then 60GB, now 80GB. Nobody's going to want to plop down a huge wad of cash if they know something better is a few months away. Seriously, you think they'll keep going up with the hard drive, or you think 80GB will be the ceiling?
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Originally posted by: Johnboy3434
Originally posted by: lordjedi
Looks like the format war could be coming to an official end even sooner than we thought:

http://thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents


O_O

WEEKS?! Holy crap! Well, that settles it. I'm putting a PS3 on my Santa Claus list. As soon as the HD-DVD honchos throw in the towel, no more newly-released DVDs for me.

EDIT: I just realized while browsing Wikipedia: with the exception of the Dreamcast (which didn't make it to the endgame like its competitors), the PS2 was the weakest of the sixth generation consoles, yet it sold far away the best. Now, the PS3 is the most powerful of the seventh generation consoles so far, and it's getting its ass kicked. What's up with that? [/Seinfeld]


I'll tell you what's up. With the PS2, developers were making games like crazy because it was easy to code for. With the PS3, it's very powerful, but it's also extremely difficult to code for. Couple that with the Wii consistently outselling everything and developers are more likely to code a game for the Wii, XBox 360 (which is essentially just a fixed hardware PC), and then the PS3. The PS3 just doesn't have that many games that are worth playing. It's biggest claim to fame right now is that it's the best Blu-ray player on the market...and it's got a game console built-in.

EDIT: And if you check out the bits today, you'll see that now even Walmart is going Blu-ray exclusive. The only thing left, really, is for Toshiba to make the official announcement that HD-DVD is dead.
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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All I really meant by "lesser of two evils" is that the format war is ending now, i.e. one format is loosing out now as opposed to the situation being dragged on indefinitely. Even then it's only just my opinion, that's why I asked if anyone thinks an indefinite dual-format situation would actually be better.
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According to the Bits, Japanese newspapers are reporting tha Toshiba is going to announce their discontinuing of the HD-DVD format. Various english sources have now picked up the story. Now that it is leaked early, it could happen monday.

So, while the Warner switch was the beginning of the fall, it seems that now, in a literal and real manner, the end of the format war has come.

The Secret History of Star Wars -- now available on Amazon.com!

"When George went back and put new creatures into the original Star Wars, I find that disturbing. It’s a revision of history. That bothers me."

--James Cameron, Entertainment Weekly, April 2010

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Here it is:

Toshiba Highly Likely To Withdraw From HD DVD Business
By YUKARI IWATANI KANE and SARAH MCBRIDE
February 16, 2008 11:39 p.m.

TOKYO -- Toshiba Corp. is highly likely to pull out of the HD DVD business early this week, people familiar with the situation said, marking the end of an intense battle over next-generation formats against Sony Corp.'s Blu-ray technology.

Since Time Warner Inc.'s Warner Bros. decided last month to support Blu-ray exclusively, sales of Blu-ray players and movies have started to gain momentum, putting pressure on Toshiba to consider its options.

"Sales have been hurt since Warner's decision, and we are considering different options," said Keisuke Oomori, Toshiba's spokesman, though he said that nothing has been decided at this point.

If Toshiba withdraws from the HD DVD business, Viacom Inc.'s Paramount Pictures and General Electric Co.'s Universal Pictures, both of which currently support the format exclusively, would be immediately released from their commitments, a person familiar said.

Over the past several years, supporters of HD DVD and Blu-ray have been engaged in a fierce war over the high-definition DVD market as each side launched major campaigns to woo movie studios, retailers and ultimately consumers to their side.

Toshiba was particularly aggressive with price cuts during the holiday season and had been buoyed by solid sales of its players by the end of last year. But its fortunes changed when Warner Bros. chose to back Blu-ray in early January, leaving HD DVD with just a 25% share of the high-definition video market. That meant consumers, who bought HD DVD players, would have far fewer movie titles to choose from.

The Blu-ray side has also benefited from a strong increase in sales of Sony's PlayStation 3 videogame console, which comes with a Blu-ray player.

Toshiba made a last ditch effort to save its HD DVD business by slashing its prices on the players in January by as much as 25% in the U.S., but Blu-ray players still outsold HD DVD players by more than two to one, according to analysts. Movie sales figures have been even more telling. Nearly 80% of high-definition software sales were for the Blu-ray format in January, analysts said.

Meanwhile, retailers, which had been relatively neutral, began successively expressing their support for Blu-ray, in the hopes of putting a quick end to the battle. Retailers are hoping that a decision would persuade consumers who have been cautious about buying high-definition players and movies while a format battle was continuing.

In recent weeks, the situation had become increasingly grim for Toshiba and HD DVD supporters. Major retailers like consumer electronics giant Best Buy Co. Inc., online video rental company NetFlix Inc. and Wal-Mart all sided with Blu-ray just in the past week alone.

Write to Yukari Iwatani Kane at yukari.iwatani@wsj.com1 and Sarah McBride at sarah.mcbride@wsj.com2
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Fortunately, when I bit back in November, I didn't open but one of the eight HD-DVD's I bought. I took them back to Wal-Mart and got a cash card. Now all I have is Trasnformers and Clerks II on HD-DVD. Now I'm just waiting for agood deal on a Blu-ray player that will be 2.0 compatible.
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Wow. I make a topic about the format war ending, then it ends a week later.

...

Alright, let's talk about finding a cure for AIDS, now.
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Originally posted by: Johnboy3434
Wow. I make a topic about the format war ending, then it ends a week later.

...

Alright, let's talk about finding a cure for AIDS, now.


That and the fact there is no cure for cancer and about me not being a millionaire yet.
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I'm trying to decide what I should do. I have the Xbox 360 add-on and about 12 HD-DVDs (I also have a blu-ray player). I'm considering buying another stand aloneHD-DVD player for roughly $100, because:

1) I can't stand the Xbox one and it is too damn loud

2) I have $200 invested in HD-DVDs that probably either aren't or won't be worth much

3) Who knows when these particular movies will be out on blu-ray (Could be years).


So should I try to sell the Xbox 360 add-on and a couple movies and get the regular HD-DVD player? Should I just get rid of all of them and wait for them to be on Blu-ray? Any suggestions?


Also, another thing I've been seeing on the web (digitalbits maybe?) that Toshiba is reneging on the 5 free movie thing, which was to be part of my plan.
40,000 million notches away
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If the value of the XBOX add-on will pay for a standalone player, thats a viable option. But how much do you think you will get for it? Since the format is dead, chances are you'd get practically nothing, because who would buy a used POS player for a dead format? But I guess look into it just in case. The only bad part about getting a standalone player is that you'll have another piece of hardware crowding your shelf but if thats no bother then I say keep the HD-DVD disks. Why buy something again when you already have it? The Blu-Ray versions, if they are not already available, will probable just use the same HD-DVD encode anyway.

If you want to get rid of them you will definitly lose money because I'm sure stores won't give you much for them because again its a dead format. I don't think it will be that long until all the Paramoun and Universal HD-DVD titles are on Blu-Ray--I'd say by Christmas most of them will be available. But you'll basically be paying for most of them again. If you sell the XBOX add-on and all 12 HD-DVDs maybe that would pay for half, but thats still six Blu-Ray titles to buy. But I guess thats the cost of the format war. Somebody has to lose.

The Secret History of Star Wars -- now available on Amazon.com!

"When George went back and put new creatures into the original Star Wars, I find that disturbing. It’s a revision of history. That bothers me."

--James Cameron, Entertainment Weekly, April 2010

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Is the 360 HD-DVD add on really that bad? In your position I think I would just accept my losses and hang onto all the movies and keep the 360 player as a means to play them. Then maybe as time goes on I would slowly replace the HD-DVDs with Blu-rays as the films in question became available at less expenisve prices. Releasing these titles in Blu-ray later means more money for the studios, so I wouldn't expect anything that is available exclusively for HD-DVD to stay that way for too long. If it gets to be anything like the BETAs when VHS won out, then you might be able to score a really inexpensive HD-DVD player sometime in the next several months as they get phased out.

For my part, I wouldn't want to waste so much as another penny on the format.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Originally posted by: C3PX
Is the 360 HD-DVD add on really that bad? In your position I think I would just accept my losses and hang onto all the movies and keep the 360 player as a means to play them. Then maybe as time goes on I would slowly replace the HD-DVDs with Blu-rays as the films in question became available at less expenisve prices. Releasing these titles in Blu-ray later means more money for the studios, so I wouldn't expect anything that is available exclusively for HD-DVD to stay that way for too long. If it gets to be anything like the BETAs when VHS won out, then you might be able to score a really inexpensive HD-DVD player sometime in the next several months as they get phased out.

For my part, I wouldn't want to waste so much as another penny on the format.



That's really kind of the bottom line.
40,000 million notches away
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Nevermind, it was posted at the top of the page.
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.