logo Sign In

Hey guys, Remember when Star wars had writing like this? — Page 4

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Wesyeed
Originally posted by: CO
I found this post on TFn, and it justifies what has happened to the saga when watching the PT first, and totally justifies my points of now someone thinking the OT is average, including our beloved Star Wars from 1977. Read on and make your own assessments of how new fans 1-6 will view it:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Author Topic: Has anyone here ever seen the PT before the OT?
dvdcdr
Registered: Aug '06

Date Posted: 11/27 5:53pm Subject: Has anyone here ever seen the PT before the OT?
Hmm, I may be the only one.

But the point I'm trying to make is, I think the PT is often bashed because it is not nessecarily worse than the OT but different. They honestly are two completely different types of movies, both good in their own respect. However, the first Star Wars movie you see will stick in your head forever. you'll always be preprogrammed to think of star wars as that movie, or at least the trilogy it is part of.

A few years back, with talks of ROTS, everyone kept telling me I had to watch the Star Wars movies. When I kept telling them I didn't know which one to get, they'd say ANH. Confused, I went and rented Phantom Menace. And despite everyone saying how horrible Phatom Menace is, I actually kinda liked it. It wasn't my favorite movie ever, but it was my first taste of Star Wars and I found GL's style of moviemaking very appealing. I could've stopped watching thet SW films right there, but I decided to continue because I happened to like TPM.

I moved on to AOTC, which I liked even more. I thought it a very good film, with good special effects, music, and story. I also did not know about Palpatine becoming emporor or anything at the time, so the story was very perplexing to me.

Then came ROTS! I LOVED IT!!!!!! It's one of my favorite movies of all time! I was going nuts when I saw that movie!!!!!!!! And throughout the whole time, everyone was telling me I was gonna like the OT even better.

So, I eventually watch ANH, and, well, uh...I did not like it at all. I didn't like the unepic lightsaber battle, i didn't like the corniness, i didn't like the plot at all (it really didn't have the right flow to it, with a lot of plot twists and everything. half the movie was just them running around on the death star, and that bored me), i ddidnt like the little catchphrases like nerfherder or anything, and more than anything i did not like the random shooting scenes such as on the beginning with the tantiv IV. even johnny william's music didn't seem as good. now i know it was a different era of filmmaking, and the movie must be good because so many people love it, but it just wasn't what i had in mind. because when i htought of star wars at the time, it was the pt.

i forced myself to watch ESB, which was a lot better, but still not prefered over the pt.

and then ROTJ, not as good as ESB, but better than ANH. It was just an ehhhh movie


Now I'm not here to bash the OT, because it can't be bad or else it wouldn't be so popular. All's I'm saying though is it kind of depends what you watch first.

Just as all the OT fans watching the PT missed Han Solo, the banter, vader, the space battles, ect.

I missed the effects, the epic feel, the music, the plot twists, the drama, the superior use of the force and the lightsaber, and dare i say, it jar jar. no, i wont take it that far.


This right here is exactly why this site is so important.

Damn there's so much wrong with this situation, not just with that backwards perspective on star wars but also Lucas' constant revisions of the originals, people need to be made aware of the history of this franchise more now than EVER before.

It's just so wrong it disgusts me, outright. Like if someone were to tell me, a terminator fan, that T3 kicks the original's ass. I'd feel they needed a reality check. Possibly with my fist but violence isn't the answer unfortunately... damn...

I can definitely see myself becoming one of those trying to preserve history for the youth of tomorrow. I hate how it's just about money to lucas, just about finding a way to make more money from his legion of suckers who'll buy anything he sells. Fuck that. There are people willing to restore and preserve the OT by today's standards for FREE on this very board and I honestly think he'd never allow it unless it could be profitable... it's so sad. Something is very wrong about all this...


Are you preserving history for the “youth of tomorrow” or are you preserving your own youth?

This idea that the PT/SE/Holiday Special is going to distort and ruin the impact the original SW made on movie history is a gross overreaction. The original movies have stood for 30 years now and they’ll stand long after people are done complaining about Jake Lloyd.

Godfather 3 didn’t ruin the Godfather just like Jaws 3D didn’t ruin Jaws. ANH has and will “stand the test of time”… film students will still read about the impact of the flicks 100 years from now even with Jar Jar Binks. (They might even read film books that site the beloved SW and evil Luca$ as creating the blockbuster that killed small films)

(Now go ahead and start in on how the OOT isn’t available in High-Def therefore the “children” will like The Phantom Menace more than Empire.)


"Among many things I have to be thankful for are you, the fans. I know that some of you haven't liked every single thing that I've done with the saga, and that you have a strong sense of ownership over all things Star Wars. But take that passion and devotion and channel it into a creative project of your own."
-George Lucas
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: JediRandy
ANH has and will “stand the test of time”… film students will still read about the impact of the flicks 100 years from now even with Jar Jar Binks.

But will they be able to see? See the movie that was, in its time, the largest cinematic phenomena ever? That movie ... "Star Wars" of 1977 ... a historical artifact. Not Star Wars:A New Hope:The Special Edition of 1997, 2004 or later.


When I study film, I don't get a colorized and revamped version of Citizen Kane or The General. I get to study film history by viewing film history, and not revisionism.



It would be quite the shame for the 'youth of tomorrow' to only be able to read about Star Wars.




.

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
Originally posted by: JediRandy
ANH has and will “stand the test of time”… film students will still read about the impact of the flicks 100 years from now even with Jar Jar Binks.

But will they be able to see? See the movie that was, in its time, the largest cinematic phenomena ever? That movie ... "Star Wars" of 1977 ... a historical artifact. Not Star Wars:A New Hope:The Special Edition of 1997, 2004 or later.


When I study film, I don't get a colorized and revamped version of Citizen Kane or The General. I get to study film history by viewing film history, and not revisionism.



It would be quite the shame for the 'youth of tomorrow' to only be able to read about Star Wars.





.


was there a DVD just released with it, or not?

"Among many things I have to be thankful for are you, the fans. I know that some of you haven't liked every single thing that I've done with the saga, and that you have a strong sense of ownership over all things Star Wars. But take that passion and devotion and channel it into a creative project of your own."
-George Lucas
Author
Time
Post link
If you saw the saga in HD, the 1997 material SCREAMS "I'm from 20 years later!". It will be even more obvious to the film students of tomorrow, who will not be watching low-def copies of anything. They don't show filmstrips and scratchy 16mm in class anymore now do they? future appreciation of Star Wars '97 will be handicapped by it's hybrid nature. Star Wars '77 will be handicapped by it's poor presentation.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Guy Caballero
If you saw the saga in HD, the 1997 material SCREAMS "I'm from 20 years later!". It will be even more obvious to the film students of tomorrow, who will not be watching low-def copies of anything. They don't show filmstrips and scratchy 16mm in class anymore now do they? future appreciation of Star Wars '97 will be handicapped by it's hybrid nature. Star Wars '77 will be handicapped by it's poor presentation.


the OOT was just reased on DVD...
"Among many things I have to be thankful for are you, the fans. I know that some of you haven't liked every single thing that I've done with the saga, and that you have a strong sense of ownership over all things Star Wars. But take that passion and devotion and channel it into a creative project of your own."
-George Lucas
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: JediRandy
the OOT was just reased on DVD...


as bonus material in non-anamorphic video to the 2004 SEs which Lucas is still trying to sell to us, this time individually.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Fang Zei
Originally posted by: JediRandy
the OOT was just reased on DVD...


as bonus material in non-anamorphic video to the 2004 SEs which Lucas is still trying to sell to us, this time individually.


been waiting for line to show up.
"Among many things I have to be thankful for are you, the fans. I know that some of you haven't liked every single thing that I've done with the saga, and that you have a strong sense of ownership over all things Star Wars. But take that passion and devotion and channel it into a creative project of your own."
-George Lucas
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: JediRandy
Originally posted by: Fang Zei
Originally posted by: JediRandy
the OOT was just reased on DVD...


as bonus material in non-anamorphic video to the 2004 SEs which Lucas is still trying to sell to us, this time individually.


been waiting for line to show up.


If future generations end up watching it on a 16:9 display, Greedo's subtitles will be cut off because the disc is non-anamorphic. Did you ever consider that?
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Fang Zei
Originally posted by: JediRandy
Originally posted by: Fang Zei
Originally posted by: JediRandy
the OOT was just reased on DVD...


as bonus material in non-anamorphic video to the 2004 SEs which Lucas is still trying to sell to us, this time individually.


been waiting for line to show up.


If future generations end up watching it on a 16:9 display, Greedo's subtitles will be cut off because the disc is non-anamorphic. Did you ever consider that?


well then have George Jetson change his display

"Among many things I have to be thankful for are you, the fans. I know that some of you haven't liked every single thing that I've done with the saga, and that you have a strong sense of ownership over all things Star Wars. But take that passion and devotion and channel it into a creative project of your own."
-George Lucas
Author
Time
Post link
Yes, in 10 years everyone will go into the closet and wheel out a 50 pound square television from 1994 to watch ONE movie.
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Fang Zei
If future generations end up watching it on a 16:9 display, Greedo's subtitles will be cut off because the disc is non-anamorphic. Did you ever consider that?

Frankly, the subtitles being below the image is one of the remaining non-restored artifacts of Star Wars '77. The subtitles don't belong below the image, they belong in it. If we are considering Star Wars as a valuable piece of cinematic history, then the proper way to view it is with Greedo's subtitles on the image itself.

Having the subtitles below the image is just as incorrect as not having them at all. Although one of the "wrong" options allows the viewer to translate what Greedo is going on about, that does not make it any less incorrect for historical purposes.



And, yes, I am conceding that the release on DVD, even in shoddy quality, makes it currently available for scholars and others to see a fair facsimile of Star Wars '77 (with the proviso that the audio is altered in many respects and, heheh, Greedo's subtitles are wrong).



.
Author
Time
Post link
If future generations end up watching it on a 16:9 display, Greedo's subtitles will be cut off because the disc is non-anamorphic. Did you ever consider that?


Not necessarily. They can be squeezed to fit the image. Nevertheles, this version sucks!

Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
Author
Time
Post link
If future generations end up watching it on a 16:9 display, Greedo's subtitles will be cut off because the disc is non-anamorphic. Did you ever consider that?


Of course they would be cut off. Lucas wants us to watch the OOT in the worst possible way to make us never enjoy SW again.
"Then the Emperor has already won"
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: JediRandy

Are you preserving history for the “youth of tomorrow” or are you preserving your own youth?

This idea that the PT/SE/Holiday Special is going to distort and ruin the impact the original SW made on movie history is a gross overreaction. The original movies have stood for 30 years now and they’ll stand long after people are done complaining about Jake Lloyd.

Godfather 3 didn’t ruin the Godfather just like Jaws 3D didn’t ruin Jaws. ANH has and will “stand the test of time”… film students will still read about the impact of the flicks 100 years from now even with Jar Jar Binks. (They might even read film books that site the beloved SW and evil Luca$ as creating the blockbuster that killed small films)

(Now go ahead and start in on how the OOT isn’t available in High-Def therefore the “children” will like The Phantom Menace more than Empire.)


I agree that Godfather 3 didn't ruin Godfather, and Rocky 6 won't ruin Rocky, but the difference is they are FIRST movie always watched by a new fan, so there is a frame of reference to how the story starts.

SW '77 as the first episode of the OT is WAYYY different in context then as seen as Part 4 of a 6 part saga AFTER watching the PT.

Til the PT, ANH was always watched first by every new fan, so they weren't jadded by a different context of the story, the totally different special effects, the totally different CG locations, etc.

ANH will never be seen by any new fan 1-6 of just that great scifi movie that it was in 1977 and as first part of the OT til 1999. Any new fan who saw ANH first didn't know what the grander story was after watching the other movies, so they just watched it as this space adventure of good vs evil, that is all the movie really is, it is very basic in its themes, and that is its greatest strength.

When watching it as part 4 after the PT, you are expecting the continuation of Anakins story, the continuation of the jedi vs sith that was so prominent in the PT, you are wondering where the hell The Emperor and Yoda are, and you are probably wondering why the lightsaber battle is so slow compared the over-indulged PT lightsaber duels.

It is not the same movie after watching the PT, cause all of the stuff I named in the paragraph above didn't exist when the movie was made, so the frame of reference wasn't there. The Emperor was only named in the movie, so the viewer had no idea that he is the MAIN badguy in the saga. Yoda wasn't invented yet, and only invented for ESB cause Lucas killed off Kenobi. Kenobi vs Vader duel is slower because it was more a plot point, and it is the only movie of the 6 that doesn't feature a lightsaber duel at the END of the movie. And most of all, it wasn't about Anakins story in 1977 nor 1983 either, and that is the biggest change of reference. This viewer will sit there and want to know more about this Vader guy who was so fleshed out for three movies before it, and he is only in it for a measley 12 minutes.

Jedirandy, I strongly disagree with ya about ANH standing the test of time, because there is a whole generation of new SW fans who will watch it in a totally different context then the previous generation, and sadly, they will be watching it in the wrong context. No other original movie has ever gone from being seen first to fourth in a movie series, so everyone of your examples doesn't work.

Author
Time
Post link
Check the temperature in Hell, folks ... 'cause I am disagreeing with CO for the first time.


I don't believe future fans will necessarily buy into George's numbering scheme. I think the fame of the films will be such that the numbering scheme will be recognized as an artificial construct and, even if the real first movie is remembered as "A New Hope" (arrrrrgghghgh!!!!), it will be widely known that it was the first movie of the 6 Star Wars films.

(Of course, if the movie could only be properly remembered as "Star Wars," it would always be patently obvious which was the first Star Wars movie. Bah.)



So, until such time as the relics of our civilization are dug up by beings from the 28th century, or from another galaxy far, far away ... I remain confident that all but the most clueless will know that the movies were created 4, 5, 6, 1, 2, 3. If some retard wants to first watch a movie labelled "1" that they know was really 4th, that's their perrogative ... but they will have no one but themselves to blame for Star Wars seeming lame.

Fortunately, not all the "youth of tomorrow" will be retards.



.
Author
Time
Post link
JediRandy,

the other thing to remember is that regardless of how you look at Godfather Part III or any other possible sequel or prequel in that particular series, Godfather and Godfather II are both available on dvd with video that is 16:9 enhanced, Star Wars is not.
Author
Time
Post link
You guys are more worried that future generations will be able to enjoy Star Wars more than you did, aren't you?

How horrible would that be for you guys to realize only then that you were really just over reacting the whole time.
Your focus determines your reality.
Author
Time
Post link
I don't doubt that the perseverance of ANH as "the first Star Wars film" will remain---BUT, if i am a 15 year old kid in 2030 looking at a six-episode series that is known as a continuing saga, i am going to pop in the episode labelled Episode I, even if i am well aware that the last three were filmed first. It would just be stupid for a new viewer to assume a different order of viewing, and most new viewers will not have hordes of oldschool fans to convince them to watch the episodes in a backwards order. Even if i had heard that some fans preferred to watch the films in shooting order and not episode order, i would still still default to episode order out of the natural assumption that the story will progress most comprehensibly from this viewing.

But this is all based on the assumptions of the prequels being treated on equal ground with the OT, which is what Lucas is trying to do for precisely the above reason. But i don't think this will happen. I think the PT will be so ignored that "the star wars series" will continue to remain as simply the OT, and that many future fans will hear about the films as a really good trilogy from 1977-1983 that also has some prequel films made for it that suck. That seems to be the road that things are heading. The only thing preventing them from completely going down such a route is that fact that Lucas seems very adament that the films only be viewed and, in the future, packaged and marketed as the six episode Saga--precisely because this is the only way that people would continue to view the prequels. They have to be forced.
Author
Time
Post link
"Worried that future generations will enjoy it more than we did." Holy shit, that's it. I AM terrified of that! How did you know? Gomer, you hit it. Are you sure you're not a profiler?
Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Obi JeewhyenCheck the temperature in Hell, folks ... 'cause I am disagreeing with CO for the first time.
I don't believe future fans will necessarily buy into George's numbering scheme. I think the fame of the films will be such that the numbering scheme will be recognized as an artificial construct and, even if the real first movie is remembered as "A New Hope" (arrrrrgghghgh!!!!), it will be widely known that it was the first movie of the 6 Star Wars films.
.


I have to disagree with ya, cause I am already seeing it with my nephews, as they see it as one saga now rather then the way we see it.

The problem is that in one sense they are seeing Georges vision of 6 episodes of Darth Vaders story, and what has happened is that they just aren't huge SW fans cause the overall quality is mediocre now.

For any OOT fans here, lets just say ESB was an alright sequel, more in the vein of ROTJ, would any of us here be diehard OT fans? No, we would SW '77 fans, which would probably be one of our favorites of all-time, and just say the sequels are OK, but I just can't watch 2 OK films over and over.

I will contend the only reason a majority of us still watch ROTJ is not for its quality, but cause it gives us closure on the OT. I love SW more then anything in the world, and I love ESB it is such a great sequel, but ROTJ is alright, but it will always hang on with the two classics, and never leave that OT collection, cause it wouldn't be complete without it.

Now think of a 1-6 fan, who has a couple of mediocre movies. My nephew sees it as one saga, sees it as Anakins story, just like Lucas wants, but he has moved on from SW. He thought ANH, ESB, and suprisingly ROTS were the 3 best, and the others were OK. So that leaves him with 3 average movies, and the overall story now of seeing all 6 movies together, rather then falling in love with 1 SW movie like us and wanting more, has left him..........without falling in love with ANY SW movie, cause he saw them as one entity. Now compare that to myself where SW '77 is my favorite movie of all-time, and no matter how much Lucas fucked up the movies after 1977, that movie will always be #1.

Mr. Lucas, you wanted fans to see it 1-6, I know from my nephew you got your wish. The problem now is that he has moved on to Pirates of the Caribbean II, and SW was just a cool thing in 2005. Lucas may have to re-read the old saying, "Keep wishing for something, and you just may get it." I think I said that right?

Author
Time
Post link
Yet another series of films got a nice archival treatment recently, the exorcist. All of the movies, all the versions presented in good quality. I hope Star Wars doesn't end up as the only great widescreen movie to recieve really sup-par treatment.

Zombie, I agree with you on the viewing of the saga. Either watch it I-VI or just IV-VI and nothing else.
Author
Time
Post link
Oh no, Lucas will definitely allow the OT to be forever treated as subpar. It needs to coincide with his revisionism.
Author
Time
Post link
At least when Spielberg first put close encounters on dvd he just said "this is it, I'm done." Warner Brothers has put the '91 director's cut of Blade Runner on dvd in good quality and are going to be doing the same for the theatrical version next year. Lucas, on the other hand, did nothing more than what the loyal preservationists have been doing for the past several years when he clearly could and should have done better. Instead, he's just going to keep illogically revising his own movies.
Author
Time
Post link
CO, I do not believe that you need to worry about future generations. Though, as you say, it seems likely that George Lucas' six-episode "saga" will be the way that most people see these movies in the future, they will not stand the test of time in terms of popularity. The original trilogy, in the way it once was, easily had that capability; they were amazing films in their time, in terms of what they technically accomplished and in terms of their artistic beauty. However the "saga" which we have now seeks to completely overlook and ignore much (if not most) of those amazing qualities. The focus and the context of all of the movies is now radically changed and cheapened. Future generations will look at the Star Wars saga films in the same way they will see "Hellsing" or "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" or many of the other hollow films which catered to obtuse tastes during the last few years.

In other words, we don't have much to worry about. If George's intended context and ordering of the films becomes dominant, they will no longer be popular. Today's children will move on to better things as they grow older, and the children of the future will have new eye candy to wow their minds. Star Wars in its originally intended brilliance—a film translating mythological themes from tradition using fast storytelling techniques and science fiction—will therefore be what is mostly remembered in this version of the future. I can see a legion of loyal nerds keeping alive what pop-culture has left behind.


Originally posted by: auximenies

I can't say that I ever enjoyed the PT, but prior to seeing TPM I was VERY excited about a new SW movie. There was no reason for me to decide ahead of time that I wouldn't like it. SW defined my youth, and the fact that Episode I was actually being made was like a dream come true.

The only thing that my dislike for the PT has to do with my love for the OT is this: I like good movies. The OT were good movies. The PT were not. These opinions were formed AFTER seeing the films, not prior to.


Yeah, perhaps you came at the films in a more unbaised position. The vast majority of people did I would assume. Most people who went to see the prequels were fans of good movies in general and were simply hoping to be entertained. They didn't live and breath Star Wars like some of us fans did. When they saw the films they found them to be inferior movies in general sense. They took their kids to see the films, but, other than that, they had no great desire to see them. The prequels are as laughable to this crowd as a crappy, kiddie cartoon from the 80s.

Anyways, despite the fact that I suppose there were some hardcore-Star-Wars fans that disliked the prequels because they weren't like the original Star Wars movies, I simply wanted to say that I had the exact opposite reaction. I would believe most fans were loyal enough to have the same reaction I did. They were wowed by the fact that they could see new Star Wars films after many long years and came in with the bias of actually wanting to enjoy them.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

Author
Time
Post link
Originally posted by: Fang Zei
At least when Spielberg first put close encounters on dvd he just said "this is it, I'm done."


That's probably due in no small part to the fact that Spielberg has continually made movies since then and has challenged himself, and his audience, countless times. Why futz with your old movies when you have Minority Report, A.I, Schindler's List, Munich, etc, in you? Who knows what else Lucas has in him, except an apparent desire to screw with the very work that made him a household name, and make money off of his claim to fame. It's ironic that he's changed the very creations that have afforded him to continually change his creations.

We don't have enough road to get up to 88.