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Harmy's STAR WARS Despecialized Edition HD - V2.7 - MKV (Released) — Page 20

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hey harmy, i noticed that during the obiwan vs vader fight that obi wans lips at certain points look too red/orange. the part where i noticed it the most is when obi wan says "you can't win darth, if you strike me down i will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine". I haven't watched the gout in a while but i don't remember his lips being that pigmented.

"I will laugh my ass off a hundred years from now when the only version of STARWARS people remember are harmys despecialized editions.  They will project it on a 20' by 40' screen with perfect quality."

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Yeah, I noticed that too. I don't know why that is and I'm afraid I can't do anything about it.

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 (Edited)

Okay, it's been a bit slower going than I expected, but I made a fairly comprehensive list of colouring errors for the first 25 minutes or so of the movie.  I'll be doing the rest as soon as I have time.  As I said before, most of these are 2004 issues, and not anything that Harmy did incorrectly.  The beginning of the movie seems to be the most screwed up, colour-wise, while later scenes are wrong only intermittently and in smaller ways.  The 2004 version's overly-dark appearance seems to have been partially corrected a lot of the time, so the colours aren't unnaturally popping out quite as much as they were before, but the crushed blacks are still an issue sometimes.  Sometimes people's faces look strangely flat and dull as well, but it seems to be a limitation of the source that would be very difficult to fix.

I should point out beforehand that I'm not a video expert, and am much more oriented towards the audio side of things.  Because of that, I watched this with the sound turned all the way off, so I could focus completely on the image without being distracted.  When just watching the movie, a lot of the issues I spotted wouldn't necessarily call that much attention to themselves, but going through it a few seconds at a time in many cases the errors become very obvious.  Some of them I was already aware of from reading Mike Verta's site; the rest I spotted myself, and there may be others that I haven't seen.  So without further ado:

First shot: The rebel ship's laser blasts are dull and muted where they should be bright red.  The Star Destroyer's laserfire is completely white and dull with no colour at all, but it is supposed to be a vivid green.  Fixing these in some way is not optional: it must be done to make the iconic opening shot come across the way it should.  I would imagine that substituting the blasts from the 720p upscaled GOUT would be the easiest way, rather than painting them in by hand, but I couldn't say for sure.  The moon in the original is bluer, and the Star Destroyer was more white with a tiny hint of green shading, and not a flat grey.  Tatooine seems not quite right, but I'm having a hard time describing exactly how.

Second shot: (2'21)  Now the lasers are correct, but the rebel ship should have a dark maroon colouring, not bright red.  Tatooine seems too pink.

Third shot: (2'27)  Strong pink tint to the entire frame.  The rebel ship again should be maroon, not bright red.  The pink cast affects the engine glow and the explosion.

Interior rebel ship: C-3PO almost always appears dull yellow instead of his strong gold colour from the original.  R2-D2 is usually far too blue (should be a darker tint and less saturated).  The walls of the ship may possibly be 'too white' if that's possible, or maybe there's still some blue-casting to them; it's hard for me to say for sure.  To me the very slight red tint from the '97 SE looks a lot more natural.

2'49: 3PO is especially dull in this shot and R2 is much too vivid.  Reds are far too strong, seen in the 'sunburned' skin tones of rebel troops and the reflections on 3PO.

2'56, 2'59: 3PO is dull, and R2 blueness punched up too far (also applies to the shots immediately afterwards).

3'10: The white level is pretty blown out in the background.

3'20 - 3'25: White level blown out, and the closeup of the rebel's face is too pink.

3'29: The white level is again blown out.

3'31, 3'34, 3'36: Strong pink tint to fire/explosion and its reflections on the walls, all of which are much more orange in the original.  Every single flash frame in the laser battle is a rather hideous shade of magenta.

3'37, 3'39, 3'42: The coloured lights in the background behind the stormtroopers are too saturated.  They should be obscured much more by the smoke--3'42 is quite the worst offender for this.

Speaking of the smoke during this shootout, in both the GOUT and 70mm film scan it has a blue-grey look, while here it is a plain white.  Something about this just seems off, but I don't know what could be done about it.

3'49: A strong blue cast to this entire closeup shot, most visible in the rebels' shirts.

3'53: Red lights behind the rebels are strongly oversaturated.  Rebel shirts a bit too blue, and lasers slightly pink.

4'06: 3PO is again dull yellow instead of strong gold.  R2's blue is very punched up, but the rebels' shirts are the correct shade.

4'09, 4'11, 4'13: R2 blue punched up too much again.

4'47: The red level is very oversaturated.  Rebels running by in the background have lobster skin-tones, and reflections on 3PO pop out way too much throughout the scene.

4'54, 5'01: The reds again seem too strong, and have a pinkish tint. The 'columns' on the walls should be somewhat greener.

6'19: R2 blue may be punched up a bit?

6'31, 6'39: Slight blue cast to the frame?  I'm not sure if this is actually wrong or not.

6'37: Magenta explosion flash.

6'47: Pretty noticeable garbage matte box around the escape pod.  It is blue while the space around it is black.

6'55: Red tint to the shot inside the escape pod?

3PO and R2 arrive on Tatooine: The sand and sky are somewhat desaturated.  3PO is dull but the blue levels of R2 and the escape pod are punched up (seems especially noticeable at 9'27).

R2's blue level is more appropriate at 9'37.

9'58: The landscape seems pink-shifted.

10'46: The sky is not blue enough.

10'54: The canyon should be lighter/redder, not dark brown.  This applies to the entire scene, but especially this shot.

11'44: Smoke from the Jawa's gun is pink-tinted.

12'45: Green tint on sandcrawler lights.  Not sure if this is incorrect or not.

Sandcrawler interior: first appearance is very dark.  Crushed blacks particularly bad here.

14'54 - 15'31: This entire scene inside the sandcrawler is heavily red-shifted, especially noticeable on 3PO and on the ceiling behind him.

15'48: Sky not blue enough.

16'03, and throughout entire droid sale scene: Sand desaturated; sky should be more vivid blue; 3PO dull yellow instead of strong gold; R2 blue very oversaturated (especially in closeups).

Interior moisture farm garage: 3PO consistently dull yellow instead of stronger gold.  R2 sometimes bordering on oversaturated but not quite crossing the line.

20'24: Leia hologram should be less aqua, and the flashing light portions should be brighter in this shot.

20'21: The background outside behind Luke looks slightly blown out.

21'29: R2's blue is punched up again.

22'16, and elsewhere in dinner scene: The rocky walls and ground behind Uncle Owen are desaturated, especially at first.  They should have a moderate brown level, not plain white.

22'34, and elsewhere: Uncle Owen's clothing is missing its yellow hue.  The original version had a slight green cast throughout this scene, which is not present.

22'53, 23'35: The light at the left of frame is slightly pinkish.  In the original it is orange.

23'27, 23'36, 23'45, 24'00, 24'07: Whites in the background are a bit blown out.

The sunset scene is kind of problematic.  It looks rather dull at 24'11, too red at 24'28, and the closeups of Luke seem washed out (possibly a limitation of the source since the 2004 version is very dark).  The sky behind him doesn't seem bright enough, but its actual hue is fairly good from a subjective point of view.

24'46: Garage interior was more green-shifted originally (minor).

25'10, 25'17: The sky's blue should be a bit stronger, particularly through the binoculars.

25'26, 25'34: The ground seems bluer than it should.  In the original it maintained a hue more distinct from that of the sky above it.

 

 

All right, I need to take a bit of a rest from looking at this now, but hopefully these notes will prove helpful in further colour correction.  I'm aware that some of these are already being taken care of, and that others may prove difficult to eliminate.  A lot of this kind of thing is pretty subjective, but getting right up close with it, the 2004's numerous errors are quite obvious, and it's baffling to me how so many blatant mistakes or 'creative decisions' could have been made, especially when the movie already had such a great look to begin with.

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 (Edited)

 

OK, this is unexpectedly extensive :-) First, I'd like to say thank you and second, I'd like to give you fair warning that I'm afraid you won't be exactly ecstatic about my answer.

 

I went through your list and carefully checked every described shot in the WP. Well, here it is: bold is what I'm definitely trying to fix or have already fixed, bold italic is what I may be fixing and plain text is what I won't be fixing, either because I'm not a miracle worker or because I like it the way it is now (you need to take into account the red shift of the GOUT, which I'd say is causing a lot of the shots in it to appear the way you think is right - the canyon for example).

 

First shot: The rebel ship's laser blasts are dull and muted where they should be bright red.  The Star Destroyer's laserfire is completely white and dull with no colour at all, but it is supposed to be a vivid green.  Fixing these in some way is not optional: it must be done to make the iconic opening shot come across the way it should.  I would imagine that substituting the blasts from the 720p upscaled GOUT would be the easiest way, rather than painting them in by hand, but I couldn't say for sure.  The moon in the original is bluer, and the Star Destroyer was more white with a tiny hint of green shading, and not a flat grey.  Tatooine seems not quite right, but I'm having a hard time describing exactly how.

Second shot: (2'21)  Now the lasers are correct, but the rebel ship should have a dark maroon colouring, not bright red.  Tatooine seems too pink.

Third shot: (2'27)  Strong pink tint to the entire frame.  The rebel ship again should be maroon, not bright red.  The pink cast affects the engine glow and the explosion.

Interior rebel ship: C-3PO almost always appears dull yellow instead of his strong gold colour from the original.  R2-D2 is usually far too blue (should be a darker tint and less saturated).  The walls of the ship may possibly be 'too white' if that's possible, or maybe there's still some blue-casting to them; it's hard for me to say for sure.  To me the very slight red tint from the '97 SE looks a lot more natural.

2'49: 3PO is especially dull in this shot and R2 is much too vivid.  Reds are far too strong, seen in the 'sunburned' skin tones of rebel troops and the reflections on 3PO.

2'56, 2'59: 3PO is dull, and R2 blueness punched up too far (also applies to the shots immediately afterwards).

3'10: The white level is pretty blown out in the background.

3'20 - 3'25: White level blown out, and the closeup of the rebel's face is too pink.

3'29: The white level is again blown out.

3'31, 3'34, 3'36: Strong pink tint to fire/explosion and its reflections on the walls, all of which are much more orange in the original.  Every single flash frame in the laser battle is a rather hideous shade of magenta.

3'37, 3'39, 3'42: The coloured lights in the background behind the stormtroopers are too saturated.  They should be obscured much more by the smoke--3'42 is quite the worst offender for this.

Speaking of the smoke during this shootout, in both the GOUT and 70mm film scan it has a blue-grey look, while here it is a plain white.  Something about this just seems off, but I don't know what could be done about it.

3'49: A strong blue cast to this entire closeup shot, most visible in the rebels' shirts.

3'53: Red lights behind the rebels are strongly oversaturated.  Rebel shirts a bit too blue, and lasers slightly pink.

4'06: 3PO is again dull yellow instead of strong gold.  R2's blue is very punched up, but the rebels' shirts are the correct shade.

4'09, 4'11, 4'13: R2 blue punched up too much again.

4'47: The red level is very oversaturated.  Rebels running by in the background have lobster skin-tones, and reflections on 3PO pop out way too much throughout the scene.

4'54, 5'01: The reds again seem too strong, and have a pinkish tint. The 'columns' on the walls should be somewhat greener.

6'19: R2 blue may be punched up a bit?

6'31, 6'39: Slight blue cast to the frame?  I'm not sure if this is actually wrong or not.

6'37: Magenta explosion flash.

6'47: Pretty noticeable garbage matte box around the escape pod.  It is blue while the space around it is black.

6'55: Red tint to the shot inside the escape pod?

3PO and R2 arrive on Tatooine: The sand and sky are somewhat desaturated.  3PO is dull but the blue levels of R2 and the escape pod are punched up (seems especially noticeable at 9'27).

R2's blue level is more appropriate at 9'37.

9'58: The landscape seems pink-shifted.

10'46: The sky is not blue enough.

10'54: The canyon should be lighter/redder, not dark brown.  This applies to the entire scene, but especially this shot.

11'44: Smoke from the Jawa's gun is pink-tinted.

12'45: Green tint on sandcrawler lights.  Not sure if this is incorrect or not.

Sandcrawler interior: first appearance is very dark.  Crushed blacks particularly bad here.

14'54 - 15'31: This entire scene inside the sandcrawler is heavily red-shifted, especially noticeable on 3PO and on the ceiling behind him.

15'48: Sky not blue enough.

16'03, and throughout entire droid sale scene: Sand desaturated; sky should be more vivid blue; 3PO dull yellow instead of strong gold; R2 blue very oversaturated (especially in closeups).

Interior moisture farm garage: 3PO consistently dull yellow instead of stronger gold.  R2 sometimes bordering on oversaturated but not quite crossing the line.

20'24: Leia hologram should be less aqua, and the flashing light portions should be brighter in this shot.

20'21: The background outside behind Luke looks slightly blown out.

21'29: R2's blue is punched up again.

22'16, and elsewhere in dinner scene: The rocky walls and ground behind Uncle Owen are desaturated, especially at first.  They should have a moderate brown level, not plain white.

22'34, and elsewhere: Uncle Owen's clothing is missing its yellow hue.  The original version had a slight green cast throughout this scene, which is not present.

22'53, 23'35: The light at the left of frame is slightly pinkish.  In the original it is orange.

23'27, 23'36, 23'45, 24'00, 24'07: Whites in the background are a bit blown out.

The sunset scene is kind of problematic.  It looks rather dull at 24'11, too red at 24'28, and the closeups of Luke seem washed out (possibly a limitation of the source since the 2004 version is very dark).  The sky behind him doesn't seem bright enough, but its actual hue is fairly good from a subjective point of view.

24'46: Garage interior was more green-shifted originally (minor).

25'10, 25'17: The sky's blue should be a bit stronger, particularly through the binoculars.

25'26, 25'34: The ground seems bluer than it should.  In the original it maintained a hue more distinct from that of the sky above it.

 

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Not sure if anyone else noticed this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfSq0VG3sC8

Look at the strip of sky in the top left corner. It darkens noticeably a fraction of a second after the wipe finishes.

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Moth3r said:

 

Not sure if anyone else noticed this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfSq0VG3sC8

Look at the strip of sky in the top left corner. It darkens noticeably a fraction of a second after the wipe finishes.

 

Could that be a youtube compression issue?

Revisiting that shot, the guy on the dewback does seem rather...static. Doesn't his staff kinda wobble ever-so-slightly in the original?

I feel like such an ungrateful scumbag pointing that out. I'll go now...

 

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Yeah, I know and he looks a bit flat too but it's seriously the best I could do.

And the darkening bit of sky is sadly there too but it is such a minor issue, that it's just not worth redoing the whole shot again, sorry.

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The new workprint finally finished rendering (after 13 f*cking hours,) so I'm checking it out now. I'm glad to see that the garbage matte removal seems to have worked nicely and so did the recolouring of the flashes.

I'll start working on some of the changes that h_h suggested later tonight but the release might still get delayed a bit as the encoding seems to be taking even longer than before and recolouring the laser blasts in the first shot will probably take quite long.

I may try fixing more of what h_h suggested but there are some shots that are quite impossible to do - like ground is too blue, sky isn't blue enough - 3PO is too desaturated, R2 is to oversaturated -  while I agree, I'm not a wizard. And sure it could be done through rotoscoping but I'm not going to rotoscope all the different elements in the whole film if it looks good (at least to me) just not like in the GOUT. We'd sooner have an official release before this project would ever be finished.

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I'm glad my notes are helpful.  Don't worry, I certainly wasn't expecting you to do all of them, especially since many are only minor issues, and some would take a tremendous amount of work in isolating small portions of the frame individually to prevent altering the rest of the image.  But I figured it would be better to point out everything I could find, rather than not being thorough enough.  ;)

Looks like you've highlighted most of the worst offenders, so the biggest issues will be resolved while the smaller problems pass by mostly-unnoticed.  And I didn't mention this before, but pretty much everything that I didn't point out looks amazing, practically perfect much of the time.  I'm quite excited about this.

I shall continue with notes on more of the movie.

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Harmy, the lasers and flashes look great to me.  I just compared it with GOUT and didn't see any problems. 

Also, someone mentioned the lightsaber looking orange; I wouldn't worry about that because in some GOUT shots Vader's saber had a bit of orange tint.  Not that I'm saying the GOUT is accurate, but I'm sure what you are doing will be light years better than '04.

I understand it will be hard to get the original look of the sabers; the old rotoscoping has sort of a flicker to it that is sorely missing in the 2004 version.  I don't know if Adywan fixed it or if you will; but like I say it's bound  to be better than '04.

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OK, guys, here's a little 15 minutes comparison of the latest workprint with the 04SE. It is not final and youtube compression f*cked it up a bit but it should give yo a general idea of what the colours will be. It shows the new flashes, the duel and some other stuff:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXQdAsqKgw0

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Harmy said:

OK, guys, here's a little 15 minutes comparison of the latest workprint with the 04SE. It is not final and youtube compression f*cked it up a bit but it should give yo a general idea of what the colours will be. It shows the new flashes, the duel and some other stuff:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXQdAsqKgw0

 Harmy thats incredible work, cant wait.

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Awesome, Harmy. It's getting hard to control my excitement for this.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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 (Edited)

Harmy said:

OK, guys, here's a little 15 minutes comparison of the latest workprint with the 04SE. It is not final and youtube compression f*cked it up a bit but it should give yo a general idea of what the colours will be. It shows the new flashes, the duel and some other stuff:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXQdAsqKgw0

I concur with Murry and Erik, beautiful work as usual Harmy.  Everything looks so much more natural and pleasing in your version.

"Oh, don't sell yourself short Judge, you're a tremendous slouch."

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breathtaking.

looking for HDTV of the  Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith.  Also HDTV of The Lord of the Rings trilogy

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Fantastic work with the laser shots, Harmy! That was my one true pet peeve with the previous workprint, I'm so glad you put the effort into fixing the flashes.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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Thank you guys. I'm glad the effort I put into the flashes is appreciated, and I must say the results do make it totally worth it. I also decided to fix the shots where Obi's cape goes black - they bothered me too much:

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Even though the duel is still the only dissapointment in this project (which I intend as a sincere compliment), that video makes it clear that it looks better than the '04. The saber cores are distinct, and the contrast is better.

 

Damn, those blast flashes make me happy. ;-D

My stance on revising fan edits.

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 (Edited)

Harmy said:

Thank you guys. I'm glad the effort I put into the flashes is appreciated, and I must say the results do make it totally worth it. I also decided to fix the shots where Obi's cape goes black - they bothered me too much:

 Mmm, Obi Wan too orange, too baked.

 

Flesh tones, Harmy. Flesh tones.

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That latest video is really epic. I forgot I was watching a mix up of GOUT/04SE, because it blended in so well together. I really like the colour of the Death Star interior as well - looks very close to the technicolour shots we've seen. Nice Harmy!