Thanks, that's a great compliment coming from you :-)
Lando Lakes said:
Harmy said:
No, it will stay the way it is here. It's a reverse shot of Chewie from later in the scene. I always said I was gonna have to do that in order to remove the stupid added shot of Boba Fett flirting with the SE dancers. I did it exactly like this in the PDE and I think it works really well. In the ROTJ DVD Reconstruction I decided to use the GOUT shot and it stands out like a sore thumb even at DVD resolution, because that particular shot looks like crap in the GOUT. I experimented with only using Jabba from GOUT for the missing part but the quality difference is so huge that it just wouldn't work.
Aww...Too bad. Let me respectfully disagree.
Well, of course the shot doesn't stand out in DJ's GOUT - it's all GOUT, so the whole scene looks like crap, so there's nothing for it to stand out from - no disrespect to DJ, he's working miracles with it but sometimes you just can't polish a turd enough and this whole particular scene is pure turd in the GOUT, which I suspect may have to do with there being a lot of subtitles in that scene, so a different source was used for it:
msycamore said:
Some interesting info from THX Technical Supervisor Dave Schnuelle regarding the process of making the Definitive Collection Laserdiscs In the September 1993 issue of Widescreen Review:
...
"One small difference from the original films is that in letterbox transfers we prefer to put any subtitles in the black border beneath the actual picture area. Thus we didn't use the same interpositive as the theatrical one, because that one contains subtitling already.
...
If you sharpened dark_jedis v3 and just used the whole shot would that help? all though the reverse shot of chewie is not that big of a deal to me.
"I will laugh my ass off a hundred years from now when the only version of STARWARS people remember are harmys despecialized editions. They will project it on a 20' by 40' screen with perfect quality."
Harmy said:
... this whole particular scene is pure turd in the GOUT, which I suspect may have to do with there being a lot of subtitles in that scene, so a different source was used for it:
The same IP source was used for the whole film. I don't think they chopped and changed sources for the laserdisc masters.
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And I assume the idea of DJ's bluray version has already been discussed as well.
Oh, right. Well that doesn't change the fact that the scene looks like crap in GOUT.
@josh: Well, no, I have the shot from DJ's project Blu and it still looks like crap. Like I said, sometimes you really just can't polish a turd enough to not look bad between pretty flowers ;-)
I have not looked at this yet, but from reading it seems you actually changed the scene, it is not at all right, is this true? and if so, my thoughts would be to keep it looking like "turd" as you call it, as opposed to changing it altogether, because that would just be wrong, wouldn't it? it wouldn't feel right, it is not the Jedi we all know and love.
I like that my "turd" project is in between your "pretty flowers" though, very nice.
Oh, come on, man, don't get all worked up, I'm calling the GOUT DVD a turd, not your project, I think I explained quite clearly in this post and in other places as well that I think you did the best that is humanly possible with the source. You know very well how much I love what you're doing. It's just way too distracting when this particularly bad looking GOUT shot is put inside HD footage.
I did it the same way as here in ROTJ PDE and no one ever complained about it, in fact I'm pretty sure most people never even noticed. It's like one second long shot that falls into place really nicely IMO. The thing is, if you watched the scene and didn't know that that shot was inserted, it would never distract you but if I put the GOUT shot in there, everyone would immediately spot the sudden quality drop.
There are some scenes in the ROTJ GOUT that look really nice and they look really great in DJ's project (eg. the ending celebration) and can therefore be integrated quite well, but this simply isn't one of them.
DJ, I'm sure Harmy meant no disrespect to you. The turd is the GOUT source you used, not your overall project. You would agree that the upscaled scene is not as sharp as native 1080p, right?
EDIT: Ah, I see Harmy beat me to this.
You know of the rebellion against the Empire?
JEEZUS KEY-REIST GUYS! can't I kid around with you guys to? WTF! wish Jay would get some damn emoticons here or something so I can just spell things out for shits sake, I know You don't mean anything to me personally Harmy, it's all good!
Harmy said:
No, it will stay the way it is here. It's a reverse shot of Chewie from later in the scene. I always said I was gonna have to do that in order to remove the stupid added shot of Boba Fett flirting with the SE dancers. I did it exactly like this in the PDE and I think it works really well. In the ROTJ DVD Reconstruction I decided to use the GOUT shot and it stands out like a sore thumb even at DVD resolution, because that particular shot looks like crap in the GOUT. I experimented with only using Jabba from GOUT for the missing part but the quality difference is so huge that it just wouldn't work.
Good work sticking to your guns Harmy. Folks seem to get a little nervous when you make command decisions like this (myself included), but you have proven time and time again that you're judgment is impeccable. I was so nervous about the color timing with ANH, but when I saw the final product on my tv, I was blown away with the accuracy. I agree with your call here, the integrity of the picture quality trumps such a small discrepancy.
HARMY RULES
OK, guys, here's a little test. It's not final but it gives you the idea. And it doesn't really do it justice because YOUTUBE seriously degrades the quality of the HD footage and makes the quality difference much smaller.
BTW. I hate you guys for making me do this ;-)
We just can't stand hearing Mommy and Daddy fight.
I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently.
Oh and just so you know, I'm not decided to actually do it this way, I'm just further experimenting. In fact unless I can seriously improve this method (adding more smoke elements to conceal the horrible quality drop) I'll probably stick with the PDE solution.
No way Harmy the inserted shot of Chewie for those few seconds is definitely the right decision, you are making The Despecialized Edit and thats what you have done, i watched the original clip you showed us and I didn't notice the insert.....thats because you made it look natural, the GOUT insert of Jabba makes you aware there has been work attempted, the smoke makes it look SE.
Stick with original plan.....Despecialize
J
So what was in the SE that had to be removed in this "Flipped Chewy vs. Super Smoke" scene? I've never watched the 2004 versions & haven't seen the '97 SE in at least a decade.
Oh, & for the record, I'd rather have the smoky shot. There's already smoke in the original shot & you just added some more. To me that's preferable to having a new shot that's not in the original cut.
This is the cut SE shot
Also, do remember the old saying, "don't bite the hand that feeds ya"
J
canofhumdingers said:
Oh, & for the record, I'd rather have the smoky shot. There's already smoke in the original shot & you just added some more. To me that's preferable to having a new shot that's not in the original cut.
I wasn't aware that super smoky Jabba was a choice. I thought it was flipped Chewie or Boba and his space bitches. On principal I would lean toward smoky Jabba as well.
HARMY RULES
dark_jedi said:
JEEZUS KEY-REIST GUYS! can't I kid around with you guys to? WTF! wish Jay would get some damn emoticons here or something so I can just spell things out for shits sake, I know You don't mean anything to me personally Harmy, it's all good!
d_j, I agree with you on the emoticons, but throwing in an occasional
;-)
or
:P
might help.
A comparison for yas
Still think the Chewie version works better, best compromise
J
Yeah it really... Harmy's right. The quality is pretty bad on Jabba compared to everything else :(
How bout this for a compromise:
Use the flipped Chewie, but take it from the GOUT. Then add the smoke element to him.
And then make it so smoky Chewie is the one hanging out with the space bitches.
EFU said:
Use the flipped Chewie, but take it from the GOUT. Then add the smoke element to him.
lol, compromises sometimes leave no one happy.
I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently.
timdiggerm said:
Yeah it really... Harmy's right. The quality is pretty bad on Jabba compared to everything else :(
And believe me, it's much worse in full resolution and quality.
But I'm still working on it. We'll see if I can make it look believable.
