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Good capture cards - recommendations?

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Hi,

Can anyone recommend a good capture card for LD transfer?
To be honest, this is not just for transfer of Star Wars films but also for various other LaserDisc films we have here (not available on DVD)
I've tried a few cards now which have all been unsuitable for one reason or another and am begining to wonder if a card exists to do what I want.

It needs to capture at full DVD resolution and in AVI format. I don't like the idea of a card like the Hauppauge PVRs that only capture in MPEG as I want to convert the NTSC footage to PAL format which will require a re-encode (and thus more loss of detail).
Obviously it needs to be able to capture NTSC as well as PAL format signals.

Cards i've already tried are:
ATI All-In-Wonder 9600XT - This worked fine except would only capture in Black and White via the S-Video input.
ATI All-In-Wonder 9800SE - Same problem as above which is really annoying as the picture quality was quite good, as above.
MSI TV @nywhere Master - This worked fine but the picture quality wasn't really good enough (it's only a cheapish card) even through S-video.
Leadtek Winfast PVR 2000 - This works well and has only a slight reduction in picture quality but won't accept an NTSC signal! Doh!

I have a maximum budget of about £150 (about $280) to spend on a card.

I know I could probably get a better quality film if I bought one from someone here who has already done the work and with better Equipment than I have here (Pioneer CLD925) but I have the LD player and I have the time, and as this is something that I have an interest in, I'd like to have a go myself and see what results I can get.

Does anyone have any suggestions?
Many thanks.
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I love my Hauppage WinTVGO model 90. $40, and with third-party software it records at the resolutions you want (don't ask why Hauppage let this get past them...I don't know.) Very easy to use.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: fwibbler
It needs to capture at full DVD resolution and in AVI format. New capture cards will, but the rest of your PC must be pretty fast or you will get dropped frames (esp. CPU and hard drive).
Originally posted by: fwibbler
I don't like the idea of a card like the Hauppauge PVRs that only capture in MPEG as I want to convert the NTSC footage to PAL format which will require a re-encode (and thus more loss of detail). I'd agree that capturing to AVI (huffyuv or mjpeg) is preferable; but why would you want to convert NTSC to PAL? Most European DVD players will play NTSC just fine.
Originally posted by: fwibbler
Cards i've already tried are:
ATI All-In-Wonder 9600XT - This worked fine except would only capture in Black and White via the S-Video input.
ATI All-In-Wonder 9800SE - Same problem as above which is really annoying as the picture quality was quite good, as above. TBH this sounds more like a PAL/NTSC format mixup than a problem with the cards.
Originally posted by: fwibbler
MSI TV @nywhere Master - This worked fine but the picture quality wasn't really good enough (it's only a cheapish card) even through S-video.
My card is about the cheapest you can get (OK it doesn't have a tuner, which is one of the reasons why it's so cheap) but I'm happy with the results I'm getting so far.
Originally posted by: fwibbler
I know I could probably get a better quality film if I bought one from someone here who has already done the work and with better Equipment than I have here (Pioneer CLD925)...
You can't get a better PAL player than the D925! (Well, maybe the 2950, but that's up for debate...)
Originally posted by: fwibbler
...but I have the LD player and I have the time, and as this is something that I have an interest in, I'd like to have a go myself and see what results I can get.
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MSI TV @nywhere Master - This worked fine but the picture quality wasn't really good enough (it's only a cheapish card) even through S-video.
Leadtek Winfast PVR 2000 - This works well and has only a slight reduction in picture quality but won't accept an NTSC signal! Doh!

I have both the MSI TV @nywhere Master and the Leadtek Winfast TV 2000 Expert. For NTSC, I found the MSI card to have a slight edge in video quality, but it was pretty close.

These might seem like "cheapish" cards compared to the All-In-Wonders, but it's because they're a stripped down version that does nothing but pass a video signal. $30-$50 is all you should expect to pay, and you would be hard pressed to find a better device that captures to AVI. The other options out there, while more expensive and perhaps better at what they do, capture only in MPEG.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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If you want something that has properly balanced connectors, with a low SNR etc. check out the PDI delux card, it is extremely high quality and consistent build quality and gives exceptional results.
Can also be put to a host of other duties as well (and probably re-sold when finished if you wanted!)
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Originally posted by: Moth3r
Originally posted by: fwibbler
It needs to capture at full DVD resolution and in AVI format. New capture cards will, but the rest of your PC must be pretty fast or you will get dropped frames (esp. CPU and hard drive).
I think my PC is fast enough: AMD 2500XP (o'clockable to 3200XP) and I get reasonably good IDE transfer rates.
Even so, the PC is heading for an upgrade soon (may build another machine entirely, haven't decided).
I'd agree that capturing to AVI (huffyuv or mjpeg) is preferable; but why would you want to convert NTSC to PAL? Most European DVD players will play NTSC just fine.
I know, but if I can do the conversion as easily as I think, then I may as well.
Originally posted by: fwibbler
Cards i've already tried are:
ATI All-In-Wonder 9600XT - This worked fine except would only capture in Black and White via the S-Video input.
ATI All-In-Wonder 9800SE - Same problem as above which is really annoying as the picture quality was quite good, as above.
TBH this sounds more like a PAL/NTSC format mixup than a problem with the cards.

Trust me, it wasn't. I spent a LOT of time on them!
You can't get a better PAL player than the D925! (Well, maybe the 2950, but that's up for debate...)

Yes, we're quite pleased with it. It'll also be good for transferring This Island Earth (PAL) to DVD (yes, yes I know)
Welcome aboard!

Thanks.
(Hopefully I haven't fecked up the quoting in all that lot!)

We did some tests, capturing with the ATi via composite (using top quality cables) and the MSI via S-Video cables.
There was little to tell between the two of them. While one was better in one way, the other was better in another.
I think(hope) we can get better results (I could be wrong!)

I'm having a look at one of those PDI Deluxe cards now. It might be just the thing I'm after.
Cheers!
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fwibbler, in case you didn't know, the PDI Deluxe is called SweetSpot in PAL-land.

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Originally posted by: fwibbler
Yes, we're quite pleased with it. It'll also be good for transferring This Island Earth (PAL) to DVD (yes, yes I know)


wow, really? that would be awsome...any chance you're planning on making that available via a torrent or something?

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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Originally posted by: zion
If you use the composite, your using the comb filter in the capture card(s). Using the S-video utilizes the comb filter in the LD player.


As it turns out, if you're using a 925, you're using the comb filter in the player in both instances. Because it's well upstream of things like OSD, etc., it's inevitable that you use the 8-bit, three-line, now-obsolete -2024 comb filter of the player regardless of which set of outputs (composite or S-video) you choose.

Boo...

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Yeah, it sorta does. The 925 is a nice player, and this is but one minor point. I always thought composite would be untouched, too, because that's what I thought I'd read, and it made sense. Turns out I was wrong! Actually, I don't know if one can be sure that the composite is untouched unless one looks at a schematic for each player in question. It could be that this is a fairly standard way of doing things.

On the bright side, it may yet be possible to grab the video signal upstream of the comb filter in the player, and feed it to a card (like mine, with a Philips SAA7133 chipset) that has a more modern 9- or 10-bit comb filter. Time (and probably some serious frustration) will tell.
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So the obvious question is, what happens inside the 2950?

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Well, after you feed the laserdisc to the gremlin inside, he chews it into bit-size pieces for the video hobbits, who make an assembly line with this information to the display dwarf...




...nevermind.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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From what I know about schematics in general, MBJ might be right...

I think the definitive way to find out what goes on inside is to find a service manual for the 2950 -- and then find somebody who can read it. Actually, reading it's not that hard. Finding a manual to read could be.
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Sorry, I couldn't read your post...

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: Moth3r
So the obvious question is, what happens inside the 2950?


http://www.smr-archive.com/forum_3b/messages/52.shtml

According to this many newer players with s-video does not have a "real" composite output.

Doesn't the 2950 look somewhat similar to 703/4 but with both pal and ntsc playback of course.

My denon 2300a is a clone of pioneer 515 and according to the schematics for 515 the composite stays composite as long as the sharpness function is off. I think the 925 has the same chassi as 515 and if it uses the same motherboard it could be possible to bypass the whole comb-filter board, but it would certainly be best to first have the 925 schematics.
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"According to this many newer players with s-video does not have a "real" composite output."

That's an interesting design.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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It's been several months, I'd like to revive this thread.
I'm looking to do a preservation project from VHS.
The vcr is a few years old and has both composite and S-video out (although the tapes are not SVHS). The VCR has digital tbc/nr built-in which really does nice things for the picture.

Anyway, I don't know where it falls in the whole composite vs. s-video comb filter thing.

Currently I've been capturing with a GeForce4 TI 4200 from eVGA. I know I can probably do better, but I'm not sure where.

I guess the questions are: would I get better results using s-video (and theoretically the VCR's comb filter)?
Should I just get a dedicated capture card, if so what do you all recommended now?

Dr. M