I was wondering if someone could look at my capture stills below and possibly give some advice as far as correcting the problem goes. I have a CLD-D704, and the captures were made via S-video. I've tried new cables and moved the player all around thinking it was some interference from an unknown source, but it seems to persist. I sure hope that it doesn't mean the player is out of alignment. Repair isn't an option right now.
The problem doesn't really show up that well on my computer monitor, so I boosted the contrast way up on the second still so you can see what I'm talking about.
Criterion Projects done: She's Gotta Have It, The Princess Bride, The Fisher King
In Progress Criterions: The Adventures of Baron Munchausen (99% done), Taxi Driver (90% done), Citizen Kane (50% done), Othello (99.99% done)
Possibly coming next: Ghostbusters, The Magnificent Ambersons (the theatrical cut, a reconstruction according to Prof. Carringer's script analysis, and the colorized version)
I think this is a common problem with the D704 and CLV discs. I remember Zion's original capture had similar streaking; I'll see if I can find the post.
EDIT: found it - posted by Zion on 21 December 2004. Doesn't look good I'm afraid.
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I too have a CLD-D704 and have had similar problems. I asked a laserdisc repair expert about it and he said that this is an unknown problem that happens with certain players while playing CLV discs. There is no way to fix this problem unfortunately. The problem doesn't occur with CAV discs though.
My only suggestion would be to try capturing with a regular composite cable instead of s-video and see if that helps any. Using a composite cable allows you to utilize your capture device's comb filter instead of the much older one found in the LD player, which usually results in a better capture and less dot crawl.
I asked a laserdisc repair expert about it and he said that this is an unknown problem that happens with certain players while playing CLV discs. There is no way to fix this problem unfortunately. The problem doesn't occur with CAV discs though.
I didn't notice the difference between CAV and CLV before, but you're absolutely correct. My Taxi Driver caps aren't as bad, being CAV sourced.
What's got me all in a tizzy now is what I'm going to with my projects sourced from laserdiscs that have CAV on the first disc and CLV on the second. (ie Criterion's Othello). The streaking gets way worse when the CLV sourced material pops up. I guess I'll just deal with it, or sell a kidney to buy yet another laserdisc player.
Thanks for the quick responses!
--bdev Criterion Projects done: She's Gotta Have It, The Princess Bride, The Fisher King
In Progress Criterions: The Adventures of Baron Munchausen (99% done), Taxi Driver (90% done), Citizen Kane (50% done), Othello (99.99% done)
Possibly coming next: Ghostbusters, The Magnificent Ambersons (the theatrical cut, a reconstruction according to Prof. Carringer's script analysis, and the colorized version)
yes on the oscilloscope, no on the test laserdisc.
do you have instructions on how to check this, if one were to obtain such a disc?
--bdev Criterion Projects done: She's Gotta Have It, The Princess Bride, The Fisher King
In Progress Criterions: The Adventures of Baron Munchausen (99% done), Taxi Driver (90% done), Citizen Kane (50% done), Othello (99.99% done)
Possibly coming next: Ghostbusters, The Magnificent Ambersons (the theatrical cut, a reconstruction according to Prof. Carringer's script analysis, and the colorized version)
You can purchase the Pioneer service disc and it comes with instructions, but for checking bandwidth issues you just need some test patterns, the required ones may be on the video essentials Laserdisc which crops up from time to time on ebay.
I'll do a bit of a writeup of what to do when I get a chance. You may also want to get the service manual for your player, they are available online for $5 or so, then you could look at tapping the composite video signal before it enters the OSD chip and you might get a better picture. The X9 and X0 are the only players I've seen that don't get smearing on CLV (the S9 still smears on some titles, like Top Gun for instance).
Your best bet is to adjust the player to be within spec and get the composite signal as early as possible. An outboard comb filter like the faroudja VS-50 can also make a huge difference, if you can find one.
Better still pick up a Pioneer LD-V8000 the most under rated lasedisc player ever, it gives a better picture than the Pioneer S9 and can be regularly found on ebay or at dealers for less than 50 bucks. Very very clean signal path and a great image, better than any of the 704, 703, CLD-97, 99, S9 etc. that all suffer from smearing.
That looks like chroma shifting to me, although the only filter I know that corrects those kind of issues (chromashift) can only correct RGB shifts IIRC. If it's not chroma shifting, you could try searching the Doom9 forums for DeHalo_Alpha, it's one of the best halo removers I've ever seen.
Laserman, is the Pioneer LD-V8000 that good? How come it doesn't get more recommendations around here then?
Originally posted by: Byakko Is the Pioneer LD-V8000 that good? How come it doesn't get more recommendations around here then?
Because most people assume newer=better. The LD-V8000 is an industrial player, so no fancy-ass frame stores, etc., and no digital NR. Its quality comes from its distinct lack of integrated circuits and digital futzing. Drawbacks include single side play only, weight (heavy), age (old) and looks (ugl... uh... 'industrial'). But a very nice picture. How do I know? 'Cause I have one. Want to buy it? I don't need it, now that I have a PAL/NTSC player instead.
Basically when capturing to a PC you just want the cleanest video path possible. The V8000 has pretty much a straight through video output, it is one of the hidden gems of the laserdisc scene.
It isn't something that you could point to and brag about in your lounge room though, it is big noisy and ugly and has almost no features. For a capture project though the lack of features is a distinct advantage, there is less circuitry adding noise and creating loss on the video circuit.
Karyudo, what do you have now and how much would you sell your LD-V8000 for? I won't be buying it anytime soon as I have some cashflow issues, but I would like to do it once I get some extra money.
I just picked up a LD-V8000 on ebay for 22 dollars. Not guaranteed to work, but I guess it's worth a shot.
We'll see how the picture on that one compares.
-bdev Criterion Projects done: She's Gotta Have It, The Princess Bride, The Fisher King
In Progress Criterions: The Adventures of Baron Munchausen (99% done), Taxi Driver (90% done), Citizen Kane (50% done), Othello (99.99% done)
Possibly coming next: Ghostbusters, The Magnificent Ambersons (the theatrical cut, a reconstruction according to Prof. Carringer's script analysis, and the colorized version)
Originally posted by: bdev I just picked up a LD-V8000 on ebay for 22 dollars. Not guaranteed to work, but I guess it's worth a shot.
We'll see how the picture on that one compares.
-bdev
I bought a CLD-1010 off of ebay for $25
"The CLD-1010 is a totally solid state player with a CCD Time Base Corrector. It also incorporates the same, superior analog video noise reduction circuitry that is contained in the LD-W1 and the Pioneer Elite LD-S1. The laser uses the Accu-Focus system, and achieves a .55 micron laser spot for 420 lines of resolution. In addition, the LaserRF amp is attached directly to the pickup, for RF-noise rejection. The player also incorporates Video Noise Coring, that eliminates video noise (snow) in dark parts of the picture. This helps tremendously with imperfectly pressed CLV/CAA Extended Play titles. One extra special aspect of the CLD-1010, and what sets it apart from all other Solid State LD players, either before or since, is its Laser Diode uses a RED laser of 6228 Angstroms. No other LD player or CD player with a Diode Laser has used a red laser. Red Lasers are VERY expensive and difficult to produce. But, they achieve an incredibly tight beam, and have excellent noise rejection. Plus, the red color of the laser makes most scratches and blemishes on the surface of the disc invisible to the photo diode system. Strangely, Pioneer never talked about this feature nor did they promote it.
The CLD-1010 incorporates a Tilt Servo Laser Pickup and crosstalk rejection software to eliminate crosstalk on CLV/CAA (Extended Play) discs. About the only problem it has is dealing with defects (easily correctable) such as finger prints. I don't know why it can cope with scratches and other problems, but cant deal with fingerprints. As a CD player, it's not the best tracker on dirty discs. Still, this cant be considered much of a problem, because if you have a dirty disc, you should clean it, and you should be ashamed of treating your discs so badly! (lecture over!) "
Quoted from laserdisc archives. http://www.laserdiscarchive.co.uk/laserdisc_archive/pioneer/pioneer_cld-1010/pioneer_cld-1010.htm
Having the red laser and LaserRF amp really helps produce a cleaner looking picture.
You should post some captures from various machines you have to see if there's a difference.
It would be interesting to see.
--bdev Criterion Projects done: She's Gotta Have It, The Princess Bride, The Fisher King
In Progress Criterions: The Adventures of Baron Munchausen (99% done), Taxi Driver (90% done), Citizen Kane (50% done), Othello (99.99% done)
Possibly coming next: Ghostbusters, The Magnificent Ambersons (the theatrical cut, a reconstruction according to Prof. Carringer's script analysis, and the colorized version)
I never got a chance try the 1010, but looking at the circuit diagram the video goes through a fairly tortuous path. If they got the electronics right then it should fare quite well, but going on other players with similar paths, I would guess that the image will lack detail because of the processing, but that is pure speculation. Someone will have to try one out.
I see, thanks for the information. I have a couple more questions: it seems that the japanese version of the V8000 (the V800) has BNC connectors instead of the usual RCA ones and I need to know if that would that make a difference in output quality. I'd also like to know wether the V800 has any other differences versus the V8000 (I don't know where to look for specifics like the diagram you mention) and if either is best connected to the capture card through composite rather than S-Video.
Yes you should get better quality with BNC connectors, they are true 75ohm which RCAs can never be due to the size of the centre pin.
Otherwise the V800 is pretty much identical to the V8000 AFAICT.
You definately want to come in via composite with a good cable, get the Blujeans cable BNC cable made with Belden 1694a it is cheap and the best quality you can get. Then you know that the cable isn't an issu with getting good caps.
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