General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread — Page 471

fmalover said:

Superweapon VII said:

fmalover said:

I have the Dorling-Kindersley Star Wars Visual Guide of the OT, which came out in 1997, and there it says the Emperor looked the way he did due to his lifelong immersion in the Dark Side.

After watching TPM I expected there to be a progression of his Dark Side corruption becoming more evident with each passing entry, and I was sorely disappointed when ROTS establishes that actually it was due to Mace Windu deflecting Force Lightning back at him. So stupid.

I recall the official SW website came up with some bullshit explanation that actually Palpatine was using the Force to project a non-corrupted looking version of himself. Yeah right.

I think it was a mistake bringing McDiarmid back for the prequels. No shade against his acting ability, but Palpatine really needed to have been played by a much younger actor to drive home the severity of his dark side corruption. James Marsters I feel would’ve been the perfect choice.

Nah, McDiarmid was fine in the prequels. My only real pet peeve is how Lucas chose to portray Palpatine’s Dark Side corruption, as it should have been a gradual thing instead of the idiocy of having Force lightning deflected back at him.

Ian McDiarmid has the rare distinction of playing a character’s younger self years after playing an older version of the same character, which I think is pretty neat.

If Palpatine’s physical corruption had been shown gradually throughout the films, the Jedi would have noticed. Seeing the Chancellor of the Republic slowly become more deformed over the years would naturally raise suspicions. If Lucas had gone this route, it would have made the common complaint that “the Jedi are idiots because they don’t notice things” much stronger, amplifying it tenfold.

I know some find it cheesy, but I love the idea that Anakin/Vader is “Space Jesus”. Mostly because it’s more of a subversion of the trope.

Star Wars is a modern myth, and I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s just “Jesus” in particular. Demigods are a common staple of mythology, from Mesopotamian to Greek to Hebrew. Especially since The Force isn’t strictly a metaphor for the Christian God, but more a concept that symbolizes Gods across cultures, imagines God as more of this energy field rather then an entity.

It elevates Darth Vader, especially in Canon, where he never lost any of his potential, into a greater cosmic/religious horror idea.
What if the Messiah sold his soul to the Devil (Palpatine) and became his Dragon, this Angel of Death who collects souls to bring them to the underworld? He uses his demigod like powers to commit atrocities, sets out to kill all of the other Angels/Priests (however one wishes to equate the Jedi symbolically), bring the galaxy under the Devil’s heel. What if Hercules became Hades’ servant and did the same thing?
Vader becomes this Grim Reaper, enforcer of Death, in trying to cheat death.

Because the Force conceived of Anakin, but Palpatine was this abusive father figure to him, he’s both the Son of God and Satan. He’s simultaneously Christ and the Antichrist, because Vader is the pure manifestation of Anakin’s dark side.

Luke Skywalker (and Leia) thereby also becomes a demigod, and as such, emphasizes his importance to Obi-Wan and Yoda and the galaxy. You need a demigod to fight a demigod.
Luke has equal potential to his father, and as such, not only is Vader made a greater force through this idea, but Luke. He’s the hero, the one person who can defeat the Devil’s Dragon.
Only Vader’s blood could face him, not only because they’re both demigods, but because of what Luke represents. His son isn’t just his blood, it’s Padme’s. The only one who can shake his soul’s faith in the dark side.

Anakin doesn’t return and fulfill his destiny until his son Luke is able to, through his compassion, compel him to redeem himself. Sons of Gods and Demigods battling and having complicated familial relationships is also a common motif in mythology. How interesting is it, too, that Jesus doesn’t sacrifice himself until he’s spent decades entrenched in sin? And really only sacrificed himself for his son?

It’s fascinating for me. For the record, I’m an atheist who finds mythology interesting.

G&G-Fan said:

It elevates Darth Vader

Let’s be honest here, the main reason you like the idea of ​​Anakin being the Chosen One is because it turns Darth Vader, who is your favorite character, into the most important person in the entire galaxy. 😂
If Anakin was not conceived to be the Chosen One of an ancient Jedi prophecy, the Prequels could have been written with the same story, and nothing would have changed at all.

Spartacus01 said:

Let’s be honest here, the main reason you like the idea of ​​Anakin being the Chosen One is because it turns Darth Vader, who is your favorite character, into the most important person in the entire galaxy. 😂
If Anakin was not conceived to be the Chosen One of an ancient Jedi prophecy, the Prequels could have been written with the same story, and nothing would have changed at all.

I won’t deny that. I figured you’d agree since you like the Prequels just as they are.

G&G-Fan said:

Spartacus01 said:

Let’s be honest here, the main reason you like the idea of ​​Anakin being the Chosen One is because it turns Darth Vader, who is your favorite character, into the most important person in the entire galaxy. 😂
If Anakin was not conceived to be the Chosen One of an ancient Jedi prophecy, the Prequels could have been written with the same story, and nothing would have changed at all.

I won’t deny that. I figured you’d agree since you like the Prequels just as they are.

Actually, I like the Prequels, but I would like to edit some things to make them more fluid and enjoyable. I created my own edit of Attack of the Clones some time ago. I wanted to create edits of The Phantom Menace and Revenge of the Sith too, but I can never find anyone who is willing to help me with that. In general terms, I think that the Prequels are a great story that is not very feasible for three movies, and should have been developed through a multi-season live action TV show instead, something similar to Stargate SG-1.

Channel72 said:

I hate Messianic prophecies in general, or the very idea of a Messiah, because it encourages the idea that all hope for the future is dependent on one dude, instead of like, the group effort that is required in real life.

Granted, Star Wars doesn’t incorporate a true Messiah into the mythology. Vader is more like a very round-about Messiah who only saves the Universe after he fucks over the entire Universe. So it’s at least a twist on the idea of a Messiah, kind of like Dune. But I still don’t like it, because it shrinks the Universe by elevating one guy to cosmic significance. At one point, Luke was just a random farmboy and Vader was just a cyborg SS officer carrying out the will of his government. There was a backstory intertwining the two of them, but it was personal, not a matter of cosmic importance.

This, of course, gets into the whole “myth” side of Star Wars. Like it or not, a messiah of some kind is a well-established archetype that really speaks to people.

Channel72 said:

I hate Messianic prophecies in general, or the very idea of a Messiah, because it encourages the idea that all hope for the future is dependent on one dude, instead of like, the group effort that is required in real life.

It’s inclusion in the story doesn’t change the fact that it took so many to save the galaxy. Anakin may have killed the Emperor, but if not for Luke, he would’ve stayed Vader for the rest of his life. It doesn’t change the contributions of Han, Leia, Lando, etc.

Channel72 said:

Granted, Star Wars doesn’t incorporate a true Messiah into the mythology. Vader is more like a very round-about Messiah who only saves the Universe after he fucks over the entire Universe. So it’s at least a twist on the idea of a Messiah, kind of like Dune. But I still don’t like it, because it shrinks the Universe by elevating one guy to cosmic significance. At one point, Luke was just a random farmboy and Vader was just a cyborg SS officer carrying out the will of his government. There was a backstory intertwining the two of them, but it was personal, not a matter of cosmic importance.

Darth Vader, even exclusively in the OT
Is the Emperor’s right hand
Was critical in wiping out the Jedi Order
Who’s power in the Force is notable enough that Yoda makes a point of it multiple times, both when he was a Jedi and as a Sith
He’s the father of the protagonist
Who killed the Emperor

Luke Skywalker was the one remaining son of the Jedi, that were otherwise entirely extinct besides Obi-Wan and Yoda. When they pass on, he’s the only Jedi left. He’s the only Force user in the Rebellion. And he’s just as critical in saving the galaxy as his father.

They were never just some dudes.

There’s a difference between something like Yoda and Chewbacca being best pals and attaching mythological undercurrents to what were already arguably the two most significant characters in the OT.

I think it’s worth noting too that Luke is my second favorite character after Vader, so I appreciate how it elevates him just as much as his father.

I like the idea that stormtroopers are clones.

In the way it was intended during the originals. Not that they’re all Boba Fett, but test-tube babies from multiple different hosts. I believe nepotism was involved too, with troopers being grown from certain high-ranking officers DNA.

It adds to the soullessness of the Empire. People weren’t voluntarily enlisting, they were artificially growing people and indoctrinating them for the sole purpose of serving.

When Lucas was making AOTC he intended for the stormtroopers to he the clones, which is why be had Jango bump his head on the door of his ship.

I like that the lightsaber colors mean something. Color theory ftw. It allows you to play around with motifs and symbolism.

The Sith bleeding their crystals is so much better. It’s symbolic of their nature and relationship with the Force.
Not only do they have to steal a crystal from a Jedi (a test of their “survival of the fittest” ideology; if you’re too weak to beat a Jedi, you can’t be a Sith), but they also force the crystal to submit to their will, their dark side emotions. That’s what they do to the Force and the entire galaxy: bend it to fit their selfish desires.

When Vader bleeds his own crystal, it’s symbolic of his entire nature as a Sith Lord. He imprisons it within his unyielding robotic fists and subjects it to his power-hunger, his rage.
It’s visual storytelling for how can’t let go of his ego and hatred, because otherwise he’d have to face his guilt, regret, and he refuses to feel that vulnerability. He can’t confront it because he can never bring himself to believe he deserves redemption.
To make himself feel powerful, he makes others suffer.

It feels true to the original trilogy. It’s mythic, spiritual, fantastical, symbolic, fueled by emotion and character-work. The crystals being synthetic feels too prequel-like: overly complicated and based in mechanics rather then spirituality and emotional storytelling.

fmalover said:

I find the whole crystal bleeding thing to be pretty stupid.

Emo shit. 😛

In theory, I have absolutely no problem with the idea that lightsiders and darksiders would construct their lightsabers differently. Let’s start with the premise that lightsaber crystals are alive and possess some level of sentience, that they have wills of their own and won’t just let any schmuck use them as batteries in their gizmoes. The Force-user would then need to get the crystal to cooperate with them. For the lightsider, this would involve a lengthy period of meditation over the crystal to form a rapport with it, requiring deep concentration and patience. For the darksider, they’d just use the Force to dominate the crystal, bending it to their will — the quick and easy path. But the difference between lightside/darkside lightsabers would be entirely psychical; they’d feel different, not necessarily look different. But everything pertaining to lightsabers in official canon has been thoroughly fucked up since 2002. Just look at how TCW handles a Jedi’s construction of their first lightsaber; the younglings go on an Easter egg hunt, then telekinetically mash the components together within seconds. Such a downgrade from how it once was tackled in older EU.

Mocata said:

fmalover said:

I find the whole crystal bleeding thing to be pretty stupid.

It is.

Also new lore says the Death Star laser uses these crystals. So they special rare and “alive” but also so easy to mine in huge quantities? Absolute nonsense.

I believe the lore is that some of these crystals were originally components in ancient Sith superweapons. So how come they’re green, if Sith need to bleed kyber crystals to make them work for them, and they only bleed red?

Filoni is full o’ baloney.

Far as I’m concerned, lightsaber colours should reflect the preferences/psyches of their creators. A Jedi head-over-heels in love would have a red lightsaber, an emotionally cold and aloof Sith would have blue, some guys just want to go with their favourite colours, etc, etc. If the prequel-era Jedi Order is a clique of groupthinking cultists, they’d have a limited range of colours/hues — almost exclusively blue. But Luke’s green lightsaber should be a signifier of his individuality and departure from the dogmatism of the old Order, and the various & sundry lightsaber colours of his students would indicate likewise.