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General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread — Page 462

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Speaking of lightsaber building, is there some sort of rule that you’re only allowed to wield a lightsaber of your own making?

Obi-Wan went on to build his own lightsaber after losing his first one in Naboo despite having Qui-Gon’s. AotC established that the Jedi Order does have spare lightsabers, yet Anakin and Obi-Wan built their own lightasbers after the Battle of Geonosis instead of keeping the ones they were handed. This unspoken rule IMO contradicts Obi-Wan’s line to Luke about his father wanting him to have it when he was old enough.

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fmalover said:

Speaking of lightsaber building, is there some sort of rule that you’re only allowed to wield a lightsaber of your own making?

Obi-Wan went on to build his own lightsaber after losing his first one in Naboo despite having Qui-Gon’s. AotC established that the Jedi Order does have spare lightsabers, yet Anakin and Obi-Wan built their own lightasbers after the Battle of Geonosis instead of keeping the ones they were handed. This unspoken rule IMO contradicts Obi-Wan’s line to Luke about his father wanting him to have it when he was old enough.

I’d say it’s traditional for a Jedi to build their own lightsaber as there’s an arc in The Clone Wars of the younglings going to Ilum to gather kyber Crystals to build their own lightsabers for the first time. They probably had spares because the two Jedi wielded two lightsabers as in the background of the battle you can see a Jedi battling with two. Just like Ahsoka.

I’d also say there’s no contradiction in what Obi-Wan said if you watch things in sequence order. Obi-Wan also fibbed a couple of times from his certain point of view to get Luke to go after his destiny and to become a Jedi. It’s only when Luke lost his aunt and uncle that he decided to follow along.

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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In the the first SW movie Obi-Wan’s clothing is reflective of the sort of clothing people wear in the desert, and it wasn’t until RotJ that George Lucas decided that this is the the traditional vestments of a Jedi as evidenced by the ghost of a redeemed Anakin, but frankly this creates problems.

If Obi-Wan is supposed to be hiding from the Empire, then why would he be wearing the very robes that would give him away as a Jedi? Take Caleb/Kanan, who’s dressed in regular clothing which allows him to pass unnoticed. Also, from a tactical perspective, the standard Jedi garments would be impractical to wear in combat, as the hooded long coat and loose fitting robes can easily snag and get tangled up. If anything, Luke’s RotJ tight-fitting black suit is a lot more practical and battle-ready. IMO the traditional vestments of the Jedi should have been used strictly for ceremonial purposes.

Finally a minor nitpick. Is there some sort of unwritten rule that Jedi robes can only come in earthy colours of browns and beiges?

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Obi-Wan wearing the same clothes for like 60 years is hilarious. But yes, many of us have had this gripe. Luke’s ROTJ outfit would have been the logical choice. They even acknowledge the ridiculous lack of practically in the prequels when the robes get thrown on the floor every time.

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Colin Trevorror’s discarded episode IX even addressed this, as concept art shows Rey wearing a tight-fitting black suit reminiscent of the one Luke wore in RotJ.

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I’d say there’s definitely an unwritten rule. George used colours a lot in his films to symbolise different meanings and he was very conscious about it. Black, red, and grey tended to be mostly associated with the Dark Side while earth tones were mostly associated with the Light Side. These tended to be browns, tans, and green. George describes it as a world of absolutes versus the organic world. Red is also used for passion, blue is used as a symbol of life and good, and purple tends to be reserved for royalty and political figures. It goes on and on. There’s lots of symbolic meaning in his colour choices and layers in patterns that develop throughout the story.

The most obvious usage of his choice in colour and symbolism is when you watch both Attack of the Clones and The Empire Strikes Back. They go back and forth between the two extremes of blue and red but never fully clear cut. The locations also strike many similar shapes. However in saying that in most cases it’s that they’re the most reversed Star Wars films of them all. Clones begins in the clouds while Empire ends in the clouds. Both have a cave experience. The list of patterns goes on and on. It’s honestly very complex to get into all the details.

Here’s a glimpse:

As with Jedi robes:

Jedi robes have been consistent since Return of the Jedi and really the beginning. Luke’s outfits also mirror Anakin’s. They get progressively darker each film. They’re also very similar to each other.

Revenge of the Sith and Return of the Jedi for reference:

Whose also to say the way the Jedi dress isn’t that similar to peasants on Tatooine or the galaxy at large? There’s different cultures and traditions across the galaxy. I’m sure they connect in some way. Afterall Star Wars is an ecosystem and it connects to a greater whole.

And lastly, Padme and Leia:

George thought of every last detail. I wish more people realised just how much is packed in his six films and other works. He’s very much a visual filmmaker who works in themes that are consistent throughout his entire career. The most notable and obvious is the Hero’s Journey told through THX, Curt, Luke, and Anakin. His films are more than dialogue but what is expressed nonverbal. It’s a large part as to why so many cultures can identify with these films. You can understand everything going on in his films through visuals alone. Not many filmmakers have that ability. He understands film far better than people give him credit for. I digress for now.

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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“It’s like poetry. It sort of rhymes.”

Regarding the lightsaber colours, I have studied colour theory and the opposite of red is green, not blue. Orange is the opposite of blue. I suspect this because Star Wars is an American property, and because red and blue are the primary colours of the United States of America, Lucas settled on blue for the good guys and red for the bad guys. In fact, Luke’s RotJ lightsaber was originally going to be blue, as evidenced by the trailer, but was changed to green as it would stand out better against the blue sky.

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fmalover said:

“It’s like poetry. It sort of rhymes.”

Regarding the lightsaber colours, I have studied colour theory and the opposite of red is green, not blue. Orange is the opposite of blue. I suspect this because Star Wars is an American property, and because red and blue are the primary colours of the United States of America, Lucas settled on blue for the good guys and red for the bad guys. In fact, Luke’s RotJ lightsaber was originally going to be blue, as evidenced by the trailer, but was changed to green as it would stand out better against the blue sky.

I think the choice of red and blue mostly has to do with the preexisting connotations of each color. Red is the most primal color. It’s the color of blood, fire, and anger. While blue is a more ethereal color, much less common in nature, that’s associated with water, sky, and serenity. It was definitely a deliberate choice to pit a very carnal, visceral color against a very soothing, spiritual color.

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George was also struck by Triumph of the Will. The Empire very much has strong Nazism influence but a little known fact is the ending of A New Hope borrows strongly from the propaganda piece for the Rebel Alliance medal ceremony. You see this repeated in Attack of the Clones to a degree with the Clones.

Here’s an article that cites it:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/03/19/where-theres-a-will

Needless to say I think colours from the onset were inspired just as much by Western culture as a whole and not just one source. There’s also of course the strong Eastern influence. The films cited many reference points and cultures in designs as well.

Here’s also a great video of Camille Paglia discussing the ending of Revenge of the Sith:

https://youtu.be/Ibkmh72_1pw

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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Here’s an article that touches on George’s intentions with colour through his own words:

https://www.dailyhindnews.com/star-wars-george-lucas-explains-the-meaning-of-colors-in-the-saga/

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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This convo is now like two weeks old, but I wanna say that I have never, ever heard a good criticism of a character being a Mary Sue or Gary Stu, and this has nothing to do with gender, Star Wars, or Rey.

Death of the Author

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That may be to do with the character type originating (and mostly remaining) within poorly-written fanfiction, where the character is an obnoxious power fantasy for the author. Since there is nothing inherently ‘wrong’ with the power fantasy trope in general (there being endless popular male and female examples across all genres of fiction), the only criticism one could levy against them is if they are obnoxious, which is an almost entirely subjective discussion.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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Regarding Jedi robes, the apparent inconsistency was eventually explained that Jedi tended to dress similarly to common folk across the galaxy to express their rejection of ostentation. Even so, Old Ben’s clothes are noticeably simpler in material and tailoring than Prequel Obi-Wan’s tunics, belts, & boots, which makes sense considering that PT-era Jedi would’ve still had to consider presentability at least a little bit, as part of their function as Republic diplomats.

Co-author of STAR WARS: THE RISE OF SKYWALKER - THE TEAM DALE REWRITE

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As far as lightsabers go, it’s definitely a requirement that an apprentice demonstrate the ability to build a first lightsaber of their own, but I always assumed the Order weren’t necessarily sticklers about full Knights or Masters using replacements they acquired after that threshold is cleared – like how the EU novel Rogue Planet had Obi-Wan using Qui-Gon’s lightsaber as late as a year or two after he was knighted.

Co-author of STAR WARS: THE RISE OF SKYWALKER - THE TEAM DALE REWRITE

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Rick Worley just released yet another masterful video. This time he’s exploring and explaining the Force, Whills, and Midi-Chlorians. Although it’s hard to say if he’s completely right about everything as we don’t know all of George’s story he does have very valid reasoning through his research.

https://youtu.be/ZbfvS_BwCls

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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Stardust1138 said:

What are the Whills?: (How to Watch Star Wars: Part 1.1)

Rick Worley just released yet another masterful video. This time he’s exploring and explaining the Force, Whills, and Midi-Chlorians. Although it’s hard to say if he’s completely right about everything as we don’t know all of George’s story he does have very valid reasoning through his his research.

https://youtu.be/ZbfvS_BwCls

Sweet! I’m going to check that out tonight.

I know he’s planning to make a video defending the Special Editions. I expect I’ll disagree with him on a lot of things, but I’m curious to see what his rationales are for some of the weirder changes.

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Servii said:

Stardust1138 said:

What are the Whills?: (How to Watch Star Wars: Part 1.1)

Rick Worley just released yet another masterful video. This time he’s exploring and explaining the Force, Whills, and Midi-Chlorians. Although it’s hard to say if he’s completely right about everything as we don’t know all of George’s story he does have very valid reasoning through his his research.

https://youtu.be/ZbfvS_BwCls

Sweet! I’m going to check that out tonight.

I know he’s planning to make a video defending the Special Editions. I expect I’ll disagree with him on a lot of things, but I’m curious to see what his rationales are for some of the weirder changes.

I hope you’ll comment your thoughts after you watch the video. I’m curious what you think.

I’m really looking forward to seeing what he says about the Special Editions. I am sort of in the middle. I don’t really mind the changes but I’d also say I’m not opposed to the unaltered versions of the films either. I’d welcome owning them with open arms. At the end of the day though they’re George’s story. The artist always comes first for me in deciding what is best for their work.

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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I hope you’ll comment your thoughts after you watch the video. I’m curious what you think.

Wow, that was really interesting. I’ve always been fascinated by the micro-ecosystems in the human body, and the delicate balance in which they exist. I agree with Worley that there isn’t anything inherently non-spiritual or anti-spiritual about exploring that. The cosmos is, in my opinion, something deeply spiritual, on both a micro and macro level, with there being many observable parallels between the larger universe and the tiny cells inhabiting it. It’s the same cycles and processes repeating on different scales. Like concentric circles.

Also,

“I was going to put more about the midi-chlorians and the Whills after Episode I, but everybody freaked out and said, “We don’t like this. It’s terrible,” so I didn’t. Also, I had an investment in the whole thing financially so I was forced to relent because I knew it was self-indulgent. But I was very keen to have it be in the movies, and if I had gone on to the last three, it would’ve all been explained there.”

Reading that from George made me sad. He had fleshed all this out so thoroughly in his head, and developed this intricate supernatural system. But people rejected it, so he caved and mostly dropped it. Knowing that George didn’t get to fully realize his deeper concepts within the saga is a real shame.

I’m still not sure how I feel about the Whills, though. They still seem too traditionally theistic, in my opinion.

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Servii said:

I hope you’ll comment your thoughts after you watch the video. I’m curious what you think.

Wow, that was really interesting. I’ve always been fascinated by the micro-ecosystems in the human body, and the delicate balance in which they exist. I agree with Worley that there isn’t anything inherently non-spiritual or anti-spiritual about exploring that. The cosmos is, in my opinion, something deeply spiritual, on both a micro and macro level, with there being many observable parallels between the larger universe and the tiny cells inhabiting it. It’s the same cycles and processes repeating on different scales. Like concentric circles.

Also,

“I was going to put more about the midi-chlorians and the Whills after Episode I, but everybody freaked out and said, “We don’t like this. It’s terrible,” so I didn’t. Also, I had an investment in the whole thing financially so I was forced to relent because I knew it was self-indulgent. But I was very keen to have it be in the movies, and if I had gone on to the last three, it would’ve all been explained there.”

Reading that from George made me sad. He had fleshed all this out so thoroughly in his head, and developed this intricate supernatural system. But people rejected it, so he caved and mostly dropped it. Knowing that George didn’t get to fully realize his deeper concepts within the saga is a real shame.

I’m still not sure how I feel about the Whills, though. They still seem too traditionally theistic, in my opinion.

Agreed and same here. It was very interesting. Rick always has great content. I agree too. There’s as much spirituality in exploring these things as there is in Luke’s training with Yoda on Dagobah. It’s something even bigger than all ot this and asks even more questions.

It makes me very sad reading it and his Sequel plans as any time I watch the Sequels we got from a critical lenses I realise how incomplete George’s story truly feels. Sure you can watch things up to Return of the Jedi and feel a sense of formality but there’s still three more stories that he had to tell that become more and more apparent when you watch the first six. People call out plotholes at the Sifo-Dyas mystery being unresolved but we have a video of Dave Filoni from a few years ago stating it was part of the story George wanted to lock down more before he left. Then now we have George talking about it in relation to his Sequels of him being a secret Sith. We have George talking about Anakin’s origins. The major “plot holes” in the Prequels were to be addressed. It’s why I think he did have some kind of plan as Steven Spielberg and Rick McCallum spoke of for his Sequels. He may not of had every detail planned out but he had a broader sense of things to create story points for later. Mark Hamill spoke in the 80’s how George planned to end things on another plane of existence. This sure feels like someone who had an idea of where they wanted to go. Maybe not every detail as even he said he didn’t have but enough to know the broader strokes to create new storylines. In the end unfortunately many rejected him as they didn’t feel these concepts connecting Midi-Chlorians and the Force fit into Star Wars, when in reality they have always been there and align even with things Joseph Campbell talked about. Star Wars was always building to something bigger. It becomes even clearer the more you watch his six films.

As for the Whills. I’m so intrigued by them. Especially with this quote from George the 20th Anniversary of The Phantom Menace discussion on the official site:

“Early on, it was that Anakin had been more or less created by the midi-chlorians, and that the midi-chlorians had a very powerful relationship to the Whills [from the first draft of Star Wars], and the power of the Whills, and all that. I never really got a chance to explain the Whills part.”

It’s all circular and a symbiotic circle. It’s all about their relationship just like the Naboo and Gungans, Jedi and Sith, Master and Apprentice, Rebel Alliance and Empire, and the countless other things done in duality throughout his six films. The Whills and Midi-Chlorians share it at the largest scale.

Could the Whills in a general sense be seen as God or theistic? Absolutely but it also fits to there being something greater at play than the moral beings can fathom and process. It’s a very relevant commentary for the modern world.

Plus I really want to see R2-D2 recount the story of Star Wars to the Keeper of the Whills. I have vague ideas of what it looks like in my head but it’s probably not even close to what George had in mind. I like how Colin Trevorrow’s script for Duel of the Fates had an echo of this story idea. He seemed to really care about putting forth George’s vision with the limitations he had due to the directions J.J. and Rian took the story.

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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I was going to check out that video, but I went to that guy’s channel and…

I seriously don’t understand what about the prequels or George Lucas attracts the minds of terrible people like this. And not just that, but also the fandom menace people/far right portion of the fan-base that seems to love the prequels. Those movies are actively against everything these people crave, as is Lucas, it’s just crazy to me. And then they just shit on the worst aspect of the sequels, with slurs and offenses to both cast and crew. Kelly and Daisy had to delete their social media accounts for fuck’s sake, this is insane to me, truly. I just don’t get it. Same people that go “Star Wars is political now! Get it off my movies!” …buddy, you seem to not have understood a single thing about Lucas’ 6 if that’s how you feel…

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Omni said:

I was going to check out that video, but I went to that guy’s channel and…

I seriously don’t understand what about the prequels or George Lucas attracts the minds of terrible people like this. And not just that, but also the fandom menace people/far right portion of the fan-base that seems to love the prequels. Those movies are actively against everything these people crave, as is Lucas, it’s just crazy to me. And then they just shit on the worst aspect of the sequels, with slurs and offenses to both cast and crew. Kelly and Daisy had to delete their social media accounts for fuck’s sake, this is insane to me, truly. I just don’t get it. Same people that go “Star Wars is political now! Get it off my movies!” …buddy, you seem to not have understood a single thing about Lucas’ 6 if that’s how you feel…

I can’t speak for his other videos, and I disagree with him on a lot of things, but Rick Worley is definitely not a harasser or hateful person. I don’t see what any of his content has to do with bullying actors or political extremism. He’s definitely not that kind of guy. And I think you’re jumping to the conclusion that he’s a terrible person awfully quickly.

Also, I’d rather we didn’t turn this into a political argument or start conflating being a prequel fan with being far right. I know you’re fed up, but you’re making an enormous over-generalization. And I’d rather stay on-topic.

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Omni said:

I was going to check out that video, but I went to that guy’s channel and…

I seriously don’t understand what about the prequels or George Lucas attracts the minds of terrible people like this. And not just that, but also the fandom menace people/far right portion of the fan-base that seems to love the prequels. Those movies are actively against everything these people crave, as is Lucas, it’s just crazy to me. And then they just shit on the worst aspect of the sequels, with slurs and offenses to both cast and crew. Kelly and Daisy had to delete their social media accounts for fuck’s sake, this is insane to me, truly. I just don’t get it. Same people that go “Star Wars is political now! Get it off my movies!” …buddy, you seem to not have understood a single thing about Lucas’ 6 if that’s how you feel…

As Servii said let’s try not turning this into a political debate but for what it’s worth Rick is a raging liberal. He talks about it in his Woody Allen documentary. Your political views are irrelevant to what you find enjoyment in if it’s executed well in terms of story or what you find right or wrong in life. Sometimes they do mix. There’s a very personal story to the Prequels. It goes beyond just your ideology and feelings on certain things. The Sequels and Disney era are more openly political and coming from someone who doesn’t really get into politics I find it to be sometimes off putting. I go to stories for escapism or to learn something new or experience a new way of life. Sometimes I do seek a more political view but I’m neither liberal nor am I conservative. I’m somewhere in the middle leaning more left. There’s too much extremism when we look at things too black and white. Some definitely do take it too far. The Fandom Menace being the prime example but the great majority who dislike the Sequels have very well thought out reasoning behind their dislike of the films. It has nothing to do with Daisy Ridley or Kelly Marie Tran but the story not connecting with them personally or it doesn’t feel like they continued and respected what came before. It’s all a matter of personal tastes and prospective of what serves the story. It doesn’t make you a bad person to dislike the Sequels or any other era of Star Wars. Same with stories and art in general. Respecting creators including George should always take precedence to your beliefs. I may not like J.J’s take on Star Wars but I can still respect him and try finding things I do enjoy about what he’s made or just ignore him and accept he’s not to my tastes. Just as it doesn’t make Rick Worley a bad person to defend Woody Allen. He makes a compelling argument as to why he’s innocent but it’s up to the individual to decide if they want to believe him. Ignorance is bliss but challenging our beliefs is much more difficult. We must always try to put the needs of others before ourselves. Everyone deserves to be treated equally and fairly. Our experiences are all one of the same and that’s a very core value Star Wars teaches us. As it’s not about your ideology but what you do with that power that defines you.

I’ll leave with this quote from the late great Kenneth Clark:

“I believe that order is better than chaos, creation better than destruction. I prefer gentleness to violence, forgiveness to vendetta. On the whole I think that knowledge is preferable to ignorance, and I am sure that human sympathy is more valuable than ideology. I believe that in spite of recent triumphs of science, men haven’t changed much in the last two thousand years; and in consequence we must still try to learn from history. History is ourselves.”

For the full excerpt:

https://youtu.be/r9lmepH9STs

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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Stardust1138 said:

Respecting creators including George should always take precedence to your beliefs.

Woah!
A civil respect, or a general respect? For sure.
Acknowledging their efforts, achievements and the content you enjoy, love or that resonates? Of course.

Yet the truth (or facts) should come first. Before the ‘precedence’ turns into blind respect, which then turns into idol worship. Where facts and the truth are then ignored because of that idol worship. Something that a great number of Star Wars fans have ignored when putting George up on a pedestal is the actual history of Star Wars, and also ignoring George’s attempts to both retcon, change and suppress parts of the history.

Stardust1138 said:

He may not of had every detail planned out but he had a broader sense of things to create story points for later. Mark Hamill spoke in the 80’s how George planned to end things on another plane of existence. This sure feels like someone who had an idea of where they wanted to go. Maybe not every detail as even he said he didn’t have but enough to know the broader strokes to create new storylines.

This was talked about only recently by you and another member on here? Where Lucas is quoted it was only had a vague “notion” and that “It wouldn’t be part of the main story, but a sequel to this thing” (Luke’s own personal story).

So it was not much other than a vague idea for a future story for Luke, and not for Lucas’s Sequel Trilogy. So the claim of Lucas having these “broad strokes”, “broader sense of things”, or “plans” for the Sequel Trilogy does not apply here.

In the end unfortunately many rejected him as they didn’t feel these concepts connecting Midi-Chlorians and the Force fit into Star Wars, when in reality they have always been there and align even with things Joseph Campbell talked about. Star Wars was always building to something bigger. It becomes even clearer the more you watch his six films.

It is important to remember that Midichlorians have not always been there in Star Wars. Despite Lucas trying to change history and insert his retconned quote to pass off ideas that came to him only later when writing the Prequels.

Has anyone found a mention of Midichlorians before Lucas’ writing for the TPM? If the term Midichlorians always existed in Star Wars it would not be difficult to prove for Lucas himself or Lucasfilm, but we have no evidence. Nothing other than Lucas’ famous retconned quote in a failed attempt to try and provide that evidence.

I hope you do not take my post as aggressive or an attack on you Stardust1138. You have a beautiful way with words and I enjoy reading your posts. But I feel I must highlight where I disagree, where the facts or evidence of the history does not add up (such as passing off Lucas’ vague idea for a possible future Luke story as his ideas for the Sequel Trilogy, with even Lucas himself saying this idea was not a part of the main story).

To quote Lucas in 1997: “[The whole story has] six episodes…If I ever went beyond that, it would be something that was made up".

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Johann-500 said:

Stardust1138 said:

Respecting creators including George should always take precedence to your beliefs.

Woah!
A civil respect, or a general respect? For sure.
Acknowledging their efforts, achievements and the content you enjoy, love or that resonates? Of course.

Yet the truth (or facts) should come first. Before the ‘precedence’ turns into blind respect, which then turns into idol worship. Where facts and the truth are then ignored because of that idol worship. Something that a great number of Star Wars fans have ignored when putting George up on a pedestal is the actual history of Star Wars, and also ignoring George’s attempts to both retcon, change and suppress parts of the history.

Stardust1138 said:

He may not of had every detail planned out but he had a broader sense of things to create story points for later. Mark Hamill spoke in the 80’s how George planned to end things on another plane of existence. This sure feels like someone who had an idea of where they wanted to go. Maybe not every detail as even he said he didn’t have but enough to know the broader strokes to create new storylines.

This was talked about only recently by you and another member on here? Where Lucas is quoted it was only had a vague “notion” and that “It wouldn’t be part of the main story, but a sequel to this thing” (Luke’s own personal story).

So it was not much other than a vague idea for a future story for Luke, and not for Lucas’s Sequel Trilogy. So the claim of Lucas having these “broad strokes”, “broader sense of things”, or “plans” for the Sequel Trilogy does not apply here.

In the end unfortunately many rejected him as they didn’t feel these concepts connecting Midi-Chlorians and the Force fit into Star Wars, when in reality they have always been there and align even with things Joseph Campbell talked about. Star Wars was always building to something bigger. It becomes even clearer the more you watch his six films.

It is important to remember that Midichlorians have not always been there in Star Wars. Despite Lucas trying to change history and insert his retconned quote to pass off ideas that came to him only later when writing the Prequels.

Has anyone found a mention of Midichlorians before Lucas’ writing for the TPM? If the term Midichlorians always existed in Star Wars it would not be difficult to prove for Lucas himself or Lucasfilm, but we have no evidence. Nothing other than Lucas’ famous retconned quote in a failed attempt to try and provide that evidence.

I hope you do not take my post as aggressive or an attack on you Stardust1138. You have a beautiful way with words and I enjoy reading your posts. But I feel I must highlight where I disagree, where the facts or evidence of the history does not add up (such as passing off Lucas’ vague idea for a possible future Luke story as his ideas for the Sequel Trilogy, with even Lucas himself saying this idea was not a part of the main story).

To quote Lucas in 1997: “[The whole story has] six episodes…If I ever went beyond that, it would be something that was made up".

You can respect but not always agree with someone. It’s common courtesy I find. There’s no need to insult someone or call anyone names or accuse them of x and y when we’re just as guilty of doing the very same things in our own lives in different ways. No one is perfect. We’re all flawed and make mistakes. George has his fair share but has every right to do what he feels is best as it’s his story at the end of the day. He’s always been one to change his mind. All creative people are like that. I’m a creative person. I never stick to the same ideas from one moment to the next. I always want to make my story better. I don’t see anything wrong with that. Especially as it’s my vision. Just as Star Wars was/is George’s vision. He can do whatever he pleases with it. It may belong to all of us but it’s also ultimately because of him we have it to begin with. Creators don’t have a responsibility to please or to give us what we want. Their job is to make something personal to them. Hopefully it’s morally responsible and helps us in some way but that’s a whole different topic. I’d say though George did that and then some.

I did have that discussion. It’s hard to say as both Steven Spielberg and Rick McCallum said the Prequels and Originals were part of his process with the Sequels. We also have Mark Hamill’s words. We don’t know what George personally was thinking behind closed doors. He probably truly believed for a long time the story would end at six but left open certain things in the event he decided to make the last three or at the very least for The Clone Wars series. However as The Clone Wars evolved he saw potential in continuing the saga. Darth Maul for example returned in 2011. The same year he started developing his treatments for the Sequels. He probably started drawing more lines of where he could go with the Sequels as they were never as fleshed out as the other trilogies. There’s nothing wrong with that. Stories grow and change. The 80’s to 2011 is a long time to be carrying the same story. Of course it would evolve. It sort of has to as your sensibilities change but your core remains the same.

It’s not to say Midi-Chlorians have been there from the beginning but there’s plenty to say they don’t contradict things in the Original Trilogy. They were only three films part of a six or nine film saga he planned. Midi-Chlorians enhance things we learn in the Original Trilogy or vise versa if you decide to watch the films in the order George intended us to watch them. Things don’t seem like an accident. They just happen. Like Anakin building C-3PO. It’s not a coincidence but merely part of the story.

Not at all. Thank you for your kindness and words. It’s good we can’t all agree. We all have a personal certain point of view of how we see things. The only one though that knows at the end of the day what was or wasn’t the original intention is George. I tend to give him the benefit of doubt because of everything I said above. I’m confident in saying I think he had a plan. Nothing definitive probably but a plan that evolved nonetheless of where he wanted to go with his films. How much was there from the beginning? I’d say some vague notions with themes and with the Whills.

“Originally, I was trying to have the story be told by somebody else (an immortal being known as a Whill); there was somebody watching this whole story and recording it, somebody probably wiser than the mortal players in the actual events. I eventually dropped this idea, and the concepts behind the Whills turned into the Force. But the Whills became part of this massive amount of notes, quotes, background information that I used for the scripts; the stories were actually taken from the Journal of the Whills.”

“If the first trilogy is social and political and talks about how society evolves,” Lucas says, “Star Wars is more about personal growth and self realization, and the third deals with moral and philosophical problems… The sequel is about Jedi knighthood, justice, confrontation, and passing on what you have learned.”

From all we know about his Sequels these things track.

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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Stardust1138 said:

The Sequels and Disney era are more openly political and coming from someone who doesn’t really get into politics I find it to be sometimes off putting.

I actually think that Disney era star wars stories in general are really far less political than what’s come before and relevant political undertones are really lacking. The prequels and TCW are the most political imo. What do you find political about, for example, the sequels?

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”