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General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread — Page 462

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Speaking of lightsaber building, is there some sort of rule that you’re only allowed to wield a lightsaber of your own making?

Obi-Wan went on to build his own lightsaber after losing his first one in Naboo despite having Qui-Gon’s. AotC established that the Jedi Order does have spare lightsabers, yet Anakin and Obi-Wan built their own lightasbers after the Battle of Geonosis instead of keeping the ones they were handed. This unspoken rule IMO contradicts Obi-Wan’s line to Luke about his father wanting him to have it when he was old enough.

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fmalover said:

Speaking of lightsaber building, is there some sort of rule that you’re only allowed to wield a lightsaber of your own making?

Obi-Wan went on to build his own lightsaber after losing his first one in Naboo despite having Qui-Gon’s. AotC established that the Jedi Order does have spare lightsabers, yet Anakin and Obi-Wan built their own lightasbers after the Battle of Geonosis instead of keeping the ones they were handed. This unspoken rule IMO contradicts Obi-Wan’s line to Luke about his father wanting him to have it when he was old enough.

I’d say it’s traditional for a Jedi to build their own lightsaber as there’s an arc in The Clone Wars of the younglings going to Ilum to gather kyber Crystals to build their own lightsabers for the first time. They probably had spares because the two Jedi wielded two lightsabers as in the background of the battle you can see a Jedi battling with two. Just like Ahsoka.

I’d also say there’s no contradiction in what Obi-Wan said if you watch things in sequence order. Obi-Wan also fibbed a couple of times from his certain point of view to get Luke to go after his destiny and to become a Jedi. It’s only when Luke lost his aunt and uncle that he decided to follow along.

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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In the the first SW movie Obi-Wan’s clothing is reflective of the sort of clothing people wear in the desert, and it wasn’t until RotJ that George Lucas decided that this is the the traditional vestments of a Jedi as evidenced by the ghost of a redeemed Anakin, but frankly this creates problems.

If Obi-Wan is supposed to be hiding from the Empire, then why would he be wearing the very robes that would give him away as a Jedi? Take Caleb/Kanan, who’s dressed in regular clothing which allows him to pass unnoticed. Also, from a tactical perspective, the standard Jedi garments would be impractical to wear in combat, as the hooded long coat and loose fitting robes can easily snag and get tangled up. If anything, Luke’s RotJ tight-fitting black suit is a lot more practical and battle-ready. IMO the traditional vestments of the Jedi should have been used strictly for ceremonial purposes.

Finally a minor nitpick. Is there some sort of unwritten rule that Jedi robes can only come in earthy colours of browns and beiges?

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Obi-Wan wearing the same clothes for like 60 years is hilarious. But yes, many of us have had this gripe. Luke’s ROTJ outfit would have been the logical choice. They even acknowledge the ridiculous lack of practically in the prequels when the robes get thrown on the floor every time.

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Colin Trevorror’s discarded episode IX even addressed this, as concept art shows Rey wearing a tight-fitting black suit reminiscent of the one Luke wore in RotJ.

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I’d say there’s definitely an unwritten rule. George used colours a lot in his films to symbolise different meanings and he was very conscious about it. Black, red, and grey tended to be mostly associated with the Dark Side while earth tones were mostly associated with the Light Side. These tended to be browns, tans, and green. George describes it as a world of absolutes versus the organic world. Red is also used for passion, blue is used as a symbol of life and good, and purple tends to be reserved for royalty and political figures. It goes on and on. There’s lots of symbolic meaning in his colour choices and layers in patterns that develop throughout the story.

The most obvious usage of his choice in colour and symbolism is when you watch both Attack of the Clones and The Empire Strikes Back. They go back and forth between the two extremes of blue and red but never fully clear cut. The locations also strike many similar shapes. However in saying that in most cases it’s that they’re the most reversed Star Wars films of them all. Clones begins in the clouds while Empire ends in the clouds. Both have a cave experience. The list of patterns goes on and on. It’s honestly very complex to get into all the details.

Here’s a glimpse:

As with Jedi robes:

Jedi robes have been consistent since Return of the Jedi and really the beginning. Luke’s outfits also mirror Anakin’s. They get progressively darker each film. They’re also very similar to each other.

Revenge of the Sith and Return of the Jedi for reference:

Whose also to say the way the Jedi dress isn’t that similar to peasants on Tatooine or the galaxy at large? There’s different cultures and traditions across the galaxy. I’m sure they connect in some way. Afterall Star Wars is an ecosystem and it connects to a greater whole.

And lastly, Padme and Leia:

George thought of every last detail. I wish more people realised just how much is packed in his six films and other works. He’s very much a visual filmmaker who works in themes that are consistent throughout his entire career. The most notable and obvious is the Hero’s Journey told through THX, Curt, Luke, and Anakin. His films are more than dialogue but what is expressed nonverbal. It’s a large part as to why so many cultures can identify with these films. You can understand everything going on in his films through visuals alone. Not many filmmakers have that ability. He understands film far better than people give him credit for. I digress for now.

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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“It’s like poetry. It sort of rhymes.”

Regarding the lightsaber colours, I have studied colour theory and the opposite of red is green, not blue. Orange is the opposite of blue. I suspect this because Star Wars is an American property, and because red and blue are the primary colours of the United States of America, Lucas settled on blue for the good guys and red for the bad guys. In fact, Luke’s RotJ lightsaber was originally going to be blue, as evidenced by the trailer, but was changed to green as it would stand out better against the blue sky.

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fmalover said:

“It’s like poetry. It sort of rhymes.”

Regarding the lightsaber colours, I have studied colour theory and the opposite of red is green, not blue. Orange is the opposite of blue. I suspect this because Star Wars is an American property, and because red and blue are the primary colours of the United States of America, Lucas settled on blue for the good guys and red for the bad guys. In fact, Luke’s RotJ lightsaber was originally going to be blue, as evidenced by the trailer, but was changed to green as it would stand out better against the blue sky.

I think the choice of red and blue mostly has to do with the preexisting connotations of each color. Red is the most primal color. It’s the color of blood, fire, and anger. While blue is a more ethereal color, much less common in nature, that’s associated with water, sky, and serenity. It was definitely a deliberate choice to pit a very carnal, visceral color against a very soothing, spiritual color.

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George was also struck by Triumph of the Will. The Empire very much has strong Nazism influence but a little known fact is the ending of A New Hope borrows strongly from the propaganda piece for the Rebel Alliance medal ceremony. You see this repeated in Attack of the Clones to a degree with the Clones.

Here’s an article that cites it:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/03/19/where-theres-a-will

Needless to say I think colours from the onset were inspired just as much by Western culture as a whole and not just one source. There’s also of course the strong Eastern influence. The films cited many reference points and cultures in designs as well.

Here’s also a great video of Camille Paglia discussing the ending of Revenge of the Sith:

https://youtu.be/Ibkmh72_1pw

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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Here’s an article that touches on George’s intentions with colour through his own words:

https://www.dailyhindnews.com/star-wars-george-lucas-explains-the-meaning-of-colors-in-the-saga/

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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This convo is now like two weeks old, but I wanna say that I have never, ever heard a good criticism of a character being a Mary Sue or Gary Stu, and this has nothing to do with gender, Star Wars, or Rey.

Death of the Author

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That may be to do with the character type originating (and mostly remaining) within poorly-written fanfiction, where the character is an obnoxious power fantasy for the author. Since there is nothing inherently ‘wrong’ with the power fantasy trope in general (there being endless popular male and female examples across all genres of fiction), the only criticism one could levy against them is if they are obnoxious, which is an almost entirely subjective discussion.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Workprint V4 Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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Regarding Jedi robes, the apparent inconsistency was eventually explained that Jedi tended to dress similarly to common folk across the galaxy to express their rejection of ostentation. Even so, Old Ben’s clothes are noticeably simpler in material and tailoring than Prequel Obi-Wan’s tunics, belts, & boots, which makes sense considering that PT-era Jedi would’ve still had to consider presentability at least a little bit, as part of their function as Republic diplomats.

Co-author of STAR WARS: THE RISE OF SKYWALKER - THE TEAM DALE REWRITE

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As far as lightsabers go, it’s definitely a requirement that an apprentice demonstrate the ability to build a first lightsaber of their own, but I always assumed the Order weren’t necessarily sticklers about full Knights or Masters using replacements they acquired after that threshold is cleared – like how the EU novel Rogue Planet had Obi-Wan using Qui-Gon’s lightsaber as late as a year or two after he was knighted.

Co-author of STAR WARS: THE RISE OF SKYWALKER - THE TEAM DALE REWRITE

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Rick Worley just released yet another masterful video. This time he’s exploring and explaining the Force, Whills, and Midi-Chlorians. Although it’s hard to say if he’s completely right about everything as we don’t know all of George’s story he does have very valid reasoning through his research.

https://youtu.be/ZbfvS_BwCls

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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Stardust1138 said:

What are the Whills?: (How to Watch Star Wars: Part 1.1)

Rick Worley just released yet another masterful video. This time he’s exploring and explaining the Force, Whills, and Midi-Chlorians. Although it’s hard to say if he’s completely right about everything as we don’t know all of George’s story he does have very valid reasoning through his his research.

https://youtu.be/ZbfvS_BwCls

Sweet! I’m going to check that out tonight.

I know he’s planning to make a video defending the Special Editions. I expect I’ll disagree with him on a lot of things, but I’m curious to see what his rationales are for some of the weirder changes.

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Servii said:

Stardust1138 said:

What are the Whills?: (How to Watch Star Wars: Part 1.1)

Rick Worley just released yet another masterful video. This time he’s exploring and explaining the Force, Whills, and Midi-Chlorians. Although it’s hard to say if he’s completely right about everything as we don’t know all of George’s story he does have very valid reasoning through his his research.

https://youtu.be/ZbfvS_BwCls

Sweet! I’m going to check that out tonight.

I know he’s planning to make a video defending the Special Editions. I expect I’ll disagree with him on a lot of things, but I’m curious to see what his rationales are for some of the weirder changes.

I hope you’ll comment your thoughts after you watch the video. I’m curious what you think.

I’m really looking forward to seeing what he says about the Special Editions. I am sort of in the middle. I don’t really mind the changes but I’d also say I’m not opposed to the unaltered versions of the films either. I’d welcome owning them with open arms. At the end of the day though they’re George’s story. The artist always comes first for me in deciding what is best for their work.

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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I hope you’ll comment your thoughts after you watch the video. I’m curious what you think.

Wow, that was really interesting. I’ve always been fascinated by the micro-ecosystems in the human body, and the delicate balance in which they exist. I agree with Worley that there isn’t anything inherently non-spiritual or anti-spiritual about exploring that. The cosmos is, in my opinion, something deeply spiritual, on both a micro and macro level, with there being many observable parallels between the larger universe and the tiny cells inhabiting it. It’s the same cycles and processes repeating on different scales. Like concentric circles.

Also,

“I was going to put more about the midi-chlorians and the Whills after Episode I, but everybody freaked out and said, “We don’t like this. It’s terrible,” so I didn’t. Also, I had an investment in the whole thing financially so I was forced to relent because I knew it was self-indulgent. But I was very keen to have it be in the movies, and if I had gone on to the last three, it would’ve all been explained there.”

Reading that from George made me sad. He had fleshed all this out so thoroughly in his head, and developed this intricate supernatural system. But people rejected it, so he caved and mostly dropped it. Knowing that George didn’t get to fully realize his deeper concepts within the saga is a real shame.

I’m still not sure how I feel about the Whills, though. They still seem too traditionally theistic, in my opinion.

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Servii said:

I hope you’ll comment your thoughts after you watch the video. I’m curious what you think.

Wow, that was really interesting. I’ve always been fascinated by the micro-ecosystems in the human body, and the delicate balance in which they exist. I agree with Worley that there isn’t anything inherently non-spiritual or anti-spiritual about exploring that. The cosmos is, in my opinion, something deeply spiritual, on both a micro and macro level, with there being many observable parallels between the larger universe and the tiny cells inhabiting it. It’s the same cycles and processes repeating on different scales. Like concentric circles.

Also,

“I was going to put more about the midi-chlorians and the Whills after Episode I, but everybody freaked out and said, “We don’t like this. It’s terrible,” so I didn’t. Also, I had an investment in the whole thing financially so I was forced to relent because I knew it was self-indulgent. But I was very keen to have it be in the movies, and if I had gone on to the last three, it would’ve all been explained there.”

Reading that from George made me sad. He had fleshed all this out so thoroughly in his head, and developed this intricate supernatural system. But people rejected it, so he caved and mostly dropped it. Knowing that George didn’t get to fully realize his deeper concepts within the saga is a real shame.

I’m still not sure how I feel about the Whills, though. They still seem too traditionally theistic, in my opinion.

Agreed and same here. It was very interesting. Rick always has great content. I agree too. There’s as much spirituality in exploring these things as there is in Luke’s training with Yoda on Dagobah. It’s something even bigger than all ot this and asks even more questions.

It makes me very sad reading it and his Sequel plans as any time I watch the Sequels we got from a critical lenses I realise how incomplete George’s story truly feels. Sure you can watch things up to Return of the Jedi and feel a sense of formality but there’s still three more stories that he had to tell that become more and more apparent when you watch the first six. People call out plotholee at the Sifo-Dyas mystery being unresolved but we have a video of Dave Filoni from a few years ago stating it was part of the story George wanted to lock down more before he left. Then now we have George talking about it in relation to his Sequels of him being a secret Sith. We have George talking about Anakin’s origins. The major “plot holee” in the Prequels were to be addressed. It’s why I think he did have some kind of plan as Steven Spielberg and Rick McCallum spoke of for his Sequels. He may not of had every detail planned out but he had a broader sense of things to create story points for later. Mark Hamill spoke in the 80’s how George planned to end things on another plane of existence. This sure feels like someone who had an idea of where they wanted to go. Maybe not every detail as even he said he didn’t have but enough to know the broader strokes to create new storylines. In the end unfortunately many rejected him as they didn’t feel these concepts connecting Midi-Chlorians and the Force fit into Star Wars, when in reality they have always been there and align even with things Joseph Campbell talked about. Star Wars was always building to something bigger. It becomes even clearer the more you watch his six films.

As for the Whills. I’m so intrigued by them. Especially with this quote from George the 20th Anniversary of The Phantom Menace discussion on the official site:

“Early on, it was that Anakin had been more or less created by the midi-chlorians, and that the midi-chlorians had a very powerful relationship to the Whills [from the first draft of Star Wars], and the power of the Whills, and all that. I never really got a chance to explain the Whills part.”

It’s all circular and a symbiotic circle. It’s all about their relationship just like the Naboo and Gungans, Jedi and Sith, Master and Apprentice, Rebel Alliance and Empire, and the countless other things done in duality throughout his six films. The Whills and Midi-Chlorians share it at the largest scale.

Could the Whills in a general sense be seen as God or theistic? Absolutely but it also fits to there being something greater at play than the moral beings can fathom and process. It’s a very relevant commentary for the modern world.

Plus I really want to see R2-D2 recount the story of Star Wars to the Keeper of the Whills. I have vague ideas of what it looks like in my head but it’s probably not even close to what George had in mind. I like how Colin Trevorrow’s script for Duel of the Fates had an echo of this story idea. He seemed to really care about George’s story.

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas