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General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread — Page 459

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Is there something unique about the generation that grew up with the original trilogy? There are exceptions to everything, but for the most part I don’t see older or younger people devoting as much time and disposable income to a movie, especially in the form of plastic figures, ships, and helmets to display on a shelf.

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I have no idea. My Star Wars was the original versions of the Star Wars trilogy, plus the EU pre Phantom Menace. I’m a Gen X fan.
I like the original characters and that original world and wanted it to continue. It never did beyond Return of the Jedi. Lucas was obsessed with the idea of the prequels to the point Luke was never revisited as a character.

The books i collected were all Post ROTJ Luke centric.

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NeverarGreat said:

https://imgur.com/gallery/ViBroKV

Interesting take on the Force.

Super interesting take. I also like the idea of the “dark side” being more of a reference to a Force-user tapping into knowledge that is hidden in the “dark” rather than it being dark=evil. While it ultimately leads to evil, that dark side isn’t inherently evil, necessarily.

The idea of the Force being malevolent is a fun idea, too. You could argue that it isn’t necessarily evil, though. It could just be a living thing trying to survive the only way it knows how to. To the Force, humans might be as inconsequential as bacteria are to us. But this is a great example of why I think the Force shouldn’t be explicitly explained too much, but storytellers should allow the characters in-universe to have a myriad of beliefs and opinions on the nature of the Force, and these differing views can be what leads to narrative conflict across the franchise. They brought up KOTOR 2, which is a great example of this idea. Kreia basically believes that the Force is malevolent, and she wants to destroy the Force. The game never states the she has the correct opinion, or anyone does, really, but you as the character have to choose what you believe in.

Damn. Makes me want to go back and play KOTOR 2.

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JadedSkywalker said:

I have no idea. My Star Wars was the original versions of the Star Wars trilogy, plus the EU pre Phantom Menace. I’m a Gen X fan.
I like the original characters and that original world and wanted it to continue. It never did beyond Return of the Jedi. Lucas was obsessed with the idea of the prequels to the point Luke was never revisited as a character.

The books i collected were all Post ROTJ Luke centric.

Do you like The Mandalorian?

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I like it. Would love to be able to own the Blu-Ray. I’d buy it as soon as it was available, the same for Clone Wars season 7 or the Lego Holiday Special, or the Original Original Trilogy.

I like physical releases and even digital ones i can own. Free of a subscription service.

I like the sequel movies as well even if i wish Luke and Leia had more to do and more screen time. I’m happy i got 25 years of Luke as the hero in the EU, and the passing of the torch to Rey was well done. Maybe it wasn’t George Lucas intention but i’m okay with that.

I like both aspects of Luke in Mando and Last Jedi. It shows that he is a character of depth he can be heroic and he can also be reflective and more spiritual. I adored the novelization of the last jedi it was great.

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Rodney-2187 said:

Is there something unique about the generation that grew up with the original trilogy? There are exceptions to everything, but for the most part I don’t see older or younger people devoting as much time and disposable income to a movie, especially in the form of plastic figures, ships, and helmets to display on a shelf.

I don’t think so. Do you follow any other fandoms or film franchises? I’m as much a Godzilla fan as I am Star Wars and there’s a very strong collector base in that group and they spend every bit as much (maybe more) as the typical Star Wars collector. And I know there’s also big collecting fanbases for Doctor Who, Star Trek, James Bond, Harry Potter, comics (marvel and DC) and on and on. And many of those groups span multiple generations going back to at least the baby boomers. And prior to pop culture there were collectors of many other things (art, antiquities, fossils, naturalists, etc.)

If anything, I think what’s unique these days is the large amount as well as the incredibly high quality of the items available. And that’s all driven by the demand, which seems to grow more and more every year.

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I agree on the generations of fans thing. My dad introduced me to Star Trek and Star Wars.

I introduced my nephew to Star Wars and James Bond, and Studio Ghibli. To Samurai movies and Japanese cinema. He loves Evangelion and Godzilla. My sister introduced my nieces to Disney Star Wars. The younger one is even more crazy about Star Wars than i am. I explained to them i like the OLD stuff before Disney and the prequels and they basically said i’m a fuddy duddy and a stick in the mud.

My niece loves Jar Jar, Ewoks and any BB-8 and any other thing that people seem to dislike about these movies. I still joke with my nephew over his fear of the blue elephant guy from Return of the Jedi, Max Rebo. He was afraid of him when he was little.

I’m also a fan of all those franchises mentioned by canofhumdingers except Harry Potter. I’d add in Gi Joe, Transformers, Voltron, and He-man. Though i haven’t collected those since i was a kid. I also amassed a collection of matchbox cars in the boxes. Collected Sports Cards and non Sports cards. And every video game system from the Atari 2600 up til Xbox 360 and Playstation 4. Except for Sega Saturn, or Mega drive, or Neo Geo.

I always wondered if my Grandma owning and operating a flea market and me having had all the star wars toys made up until before the release of Return of the Jedi, had anything to do with the collecting bug.

We used to go to ames to buy the transformers in the box and go to the comic shops, my grandma seemed to think there was going to be value in these as an investment. I’m not sure she was correct. Only certain collectibles end up being worth something.

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Lightsaber Appearances per Star Wars Movie

I made the graph based on this article plus some manual calculations for the sequel trilogy, using just scenes where a saber was active. I don’t have any idea about TROS though, if anyone would like to contribute a count for that one it would be most appreciated. 😃

Incidentally, the graph inversely correlates with my opinion of the films. A lightsaber percentage of 4 indicates a classic, 5 is acceptable, 6 is perhaps salvageable via fanedit, and anything above that is unsalvageable.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Workprint V4 Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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What are your thoughts on Anakin being the son of Palpatine? I think he is.

I’m just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe.

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JackNapier said:

What are your thoughts on Anakin being the son of Palpatine? I think he is.

Come to think of it, I don’t really have an opinion on this. I’m also happy with it being a mystery, and that Anakin’s fear that Palpatine created him will sometimes manifest in dreams, but nothing more.

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

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Funny that one. That would make Rey Luke’s aunt. Since she is both the daughter and granddaughter of Palpatine. And if Anakin was Palpatine’s son then Rey is Vader’s sister. It would make Ben Solo related to her which is incest.

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JadedSkywalker said:

Funny that one. That would make Rey Luke’s aunt. Since she is both the daughter and granddaughter of Palpatine. And if Anakin was Palpatine’s son then Rey is Vader’s sister. It would make Ben Solo related to her which is incest.

That’s only if you count the sequels as canon. No offence meant if you do.

I’m just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe.

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JackNapier said:

What are your thoughts on Anakin being the son of Palpatine? I think he is.

“It’s all based on backstories that I’d written setting up what the Jedi were, setting up what the Sith were, setting up what the Empire was, setting up what the Republic was, and how it all fit together. I spent a lot of time in developing those elements, and what each planet did, and why they did it the way they did. So I had all this material. A lot of the story elements were givens. Early on, it was that Anakin had been more or less created by the midi-chlorians, and that the midi-chlorians had a very powerful relationship to the Whills [from the first draft of Star Wars], and the power of the Whills, and all that. I never really got a chance to explain the Whills part.”

I used to have a headcanon it was Darth Plagueis who influenced the midi-chlorians and the Force struck back at him trying to find a means to immortality by creating the Chosen One but this is George’s explanation he gave in a retrospect for The Phantom Menace a couple of years ago.

https://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-episode-i-the-phantom-menace-oral-history

It’s a true tragedy we’ll never know the full story.

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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JackNapier said:

What are your thoughts on Anakin being the son of Palpatine? I think he is.

Another quote from George in Paul Duncan’s Prequels book about his planned Sequels:

“The midi-chlorians started the birth process in Anakin’s mother. The Whills communicated the command to the midi-chlorians, which activated the DNA that germinated the egg. That’s why Anakin doesn’t have a father. He was in a bizarre and metaphorical way touched by God, but in this case they happened to be one-celled animals.”

And another very interesting detail, George said that Sifo-Dyas was Palpatine’s apprentice before Darth Maul and ordered the Clone Army while pretending to still be a Jedi the entire time. It explains so much honestly and adds another layer to his relationship with Count Dooku.

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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Some big congrats to Dave Filoni for getting that Executive producer and creative director role!

I’m just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe.

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I know this sounds crazy, but did George ever visit the set of Alien? Look at the figure in the lower right corner…

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Found this on Reddit:

“I noticed that the first face shot we get of both young & old Anakin before each version “dies”, mirrors one another down to the position of the eyes. Both stare up at their vanquisher.”

The sheer amount of attention to detail George went to within his six films is unparalleled.

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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NeverarGreat said:

I mean, their bodies are in completely different positions…

Here’s an example with Luke and Padme.

Anakin above is part of the reversal.

Images mirror and intersect with one another within the structure to reverse and intertwine. There’s a difference between copying, and visual and narrative poetry. They’re not necessarily mutually exclusive as they must differ in some way for the cycle to work.

This video is a good reference too:

https://youtu.be/k7ZW1gtCljs

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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screams in the void said:

^ This current discussion reminds me of the whole " Ring Theory " that was going on a few years back , I gotta go with HelloGreedo on his take on it here…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FGBGcvWkdM

To which I rebuke with this video essay by Rick Worley. He shares quotes from George that back things up that show the Ring Theory is true. It’s definitely intentional as you can even see it in The Clone Wars.

https://youtu.be/vqnjzVX8EKA

Here’s also a shorter video that addresses the idea.

https://youtu.be/Btp1BoGbuiM

Even Disney Star Wars does it. Albeit without understanding context a lot of the time and deliberate copy and paste.

https://youtu.be/Lrr1-T4Z_Wo

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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Stardust1138 said:

screams in the void said:

^ This current discussion reminds me of the whole " Ring Theory " that was going on a few years back , I gotta go with HelloGreedo on his take on it here…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FGBGcvWkdM

To which I rebuke with this video essay by Rick Worley. He shares quotes from George that back things up that show the Ring Theory is true. It’s definitely intentional as you can even see it in The Clone Wars.

https://youtu.be/vqnjzVX8EKA

Here’s also a shorter video that addresses the idea.

https://youtu.be/Btp1BoGbuiM

Even Disney Star Wars does it. Albeit without understanding context a lot of the time and deliberate copy and paste.

https://youtu.be/Lrr1-T4Z_Wo

^ In regards to the first video you linked to , cherry picking and subjective editing and commentary do not prove something to be true and the maker of that video is analogous to those he points to who are doing the same thing .

In regards to the second video , a great deal of those story points in Empire are a greatly attributable to screenwriter Lawrence Kasdan ,who also was a screenwriter on The Force Awakens …I think he understood context just fine . The video also points to Terminator 2 as an example of ring theory ,which HelloGreedo mentions that a ton of other films do and that it’s not hard to spot these things if you are looking for them .

In regards to the third video…of course their are parallels ,as HelloGreedo mentions that a ton of other films do and that it’s not hard to spot these things if you are looking for them, even The Legends EU did these things like closed loops and circular narratives ,as does Star Wars under Disney , which Those Rebels clips in the video are a part of .

All this said , there are things that I like about All of the Star Wars films and things I don’t ,which is a whole other topic on its own .

https://screamsinthevoid.deviantart.com/

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screams in the void said:

Stardust1138 said:

screams in the void said:

^ This current discussion reminds me of the whole " Ring Theory " that was going on a few years back , I gotta go with HelloGreedo on his take on it here…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FGBGcvWkdM

To which I rebuke with this video essay by Rick Worley. He shares quotes from George that back things up that show the Ring Theory is true. It’s definitely intentional as you can even see it in The Clone Wars.

https://youtu.be/vqnjzVX8EKA

Here’s also a shorter video that addresses the idea.

https://youtu.be/Btp1BoGbuiM

Even Disney Star Wars does it. Albeit without understanding context a lot of the time and deliberate copy and paste.

https://youtu.be/Lrr1-T4Z_Wo

^ In regards to the first video you linked to , cherry picking and subjective editing and commentary do not prove something to be true and the maker of that video is analogous to those he points to who are doing the same thing .

In regards to the second video , a great deal of those story points in Empire are a greatly attributable to screenwriter Lawrence Kasdan ,who also was a screenwriter on The Force Awakens …I think he understood context just fine . The video also points to Terminator 2 as an example of ring theory ,which HelloGreedo mentions that a ton of other films do and that it’s not hard to spot these things if you are looking for them .

In regards to the third video…of course their are parallels ,as HelloGreedo mentions that a ton of other films do and that it’s not hard to spot these things if you are looking for them, even The Legends EU did these things like closed loops and circular narratives ,as does Star Wars under Disney , which Those Rebels clips in the video are a part of .

All this said , there are things that I like about All of the Star Wars films and things I don’t which is a whole other topic on its own

I respectfully disagree in part with what you’re saying as George discusses it in greater detail than just what was covered in the video. He discusses it in the commentary of The Phantom Menace. He calls it “visual jazz” and in the commentary of Attack of the Clones addresses how characters start saying the same things with similar ambitions. Notably Anakin and Dooku. For that matter he addresses these things in the commentary of each of his films as he’s been exploring these ideas since his early days when working on THX 1138 and American Graffiti. There’s too many examples to consider them to be coincidence. Some of the most notable examples within Star Wars are how the Jedi Temple arrival in The Phantom Menace syncs at the same time with its burning in Revenge of the Sith. The Podrace and the Speeder Bike Chase in Return of the Jedi sync and begin at the same time. The explosions happen at the same time. The framing and camera work. It all aligns together. There’s also Obi-Wan telling Luke he needs his help in A New Hope while it’s mere second synchronised with Palpatine saying the same thing to Anakin. The level of detail he went to with paralleling father and son’s story is definitely there in layers through narrative structure and strong visual imagery. Sometimes they happen with the same character in different ways like Anakin’s choice when he succumbed to the Dark Side versus when he found the Light Side again when facing a similar choice. Narratively and visually it’s the same idea played differently but the same common principle but a different choice being made. There’s a great misunderstanding that poetry means copying but the images and narrative have to differ in some way for it to work effectively. This is why Rey doesn’t work entirely because they gave her so many responsibilities within the narrative that they didn’t think of the context.

I do think things are subjective but at the same time I do think sometimes people analysis films from the prospective of what they want them to be versus what the author intended. That’s not to say Red Letter Media or whomever can’t have an opinion as we all have one but trying to understand what the author intended versus spitballing without proper claims is not always right, especially when so many of the perceived problems of the Prequels are addressed within the narrative. It’s all to say that if you let go of what you want something to be you may find an understanding of what the author intended and see the underlying subtly versus your notions of what it is. There’s rules for a reason within filmmaking of this scale but that’s not to say they’re not meant to be breakable if done right.

The thing with The Empire Strikes Back is George had the narrative and majority of the plot outlined. He came up with the large bulk of the ideas for it. Lawrence Kasdan mostly touched up the dialogue, notably with Yoda. There’s this great misconception that George didn’t do much with Empire and that’s why it’s “the best of the best” but he really was heavily involved. It’s out of respect for Leigh Brackett that he’s not recognised more I think and in turn Lawrence Kasdan received such a cult status. I highly recommend Jonathan Rinzler’s book.

We’ll have to disagree about The Force Awakens. I think it copies without understanding context more than anything. It’s too on the nose.

I’ve not seen Terminator. So I don’t think it’s fair to give my thoughts on that part of the video but it came after Star Wars. A lot of films may connect to some extent to it now but it wasn’t always that way. Star Wars is what pushed the mythology and importance of heroes back on the path of central importance within mainstream stories. Before that Hollywood in particular was going down a very gritty and dark path. That’s not to say there wasn’t stories that didn’t parallel or connect before it but it had fallen off in Hollywood. Star Wars has always had strong parallels. The Original Trilogy in its own way fits the structure of ring composition very well between the three films.

I think Rebels is the only Disney era content to truly get the context mostly right but it makes sense that it would as Dave Filoni learned from George. I can’t say for the other bits as I’ve read very little of the EU so far and with Disney’s films it’s all about context. I think they’re missing context most of the time. I think Rogue One and some of The Last Jedi are exceptions.

Absolutely. We all have different interpretations of what is and what isn’t Star Wars. That’s part of the charm of it. It brings different people together for different reasons but there’s a common ground in knowing we all love it but may differ in some ways. I may not fully think Disney has understood Star Wars but I can still find some enjoyment if I don’t think too much of it fitting into what George created. His six films and The Clone Wars will always be my favourites. I’ll always be grateful to him.

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas