General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread — Page 369

Collipso said:

chyron8472 said:

Collipso said:

SilverWook said:

joefavs said:

I’m of two minds on the Maul thing. I think bringing him back was a dumb idea and I’d never have done it if I was a showrunner, but once they’d done it they did go on to do some genuinely interesting things with him.

Wasn’t it Geroge’s idea?

Most of that show came from George’s ideas.

But that’s the key: they’re just his ideas. Not his writing or direction.

And? It was asked if it was his idea and the answer is “yes, most of that show came from George’s ideas”. Let’s not bash someone for the sake of bashing. And I don’t even think he’s a bad director.

Really?

Working with actors is one of the most (if not the most) important jobs for a director, and he can’t do it. He hates doing it and it shows on screen. He can’t make bad actors better, he makes marginal actors bad, and he makes great actors average.

George Lucas is by no means a bad editor, quite the opposite.

LexX said:

SilverWook said:

Thought this was a neat list.
https://www.metv.com/lists/10-forgotten-summer-popcorn-movies-of-1977-that-were-not-star-wars

I can only say for sure I saw The Deep and The Rescuers that summer.

“10 forgotten summer popcorn movies” - lists 9.

Lol. Listicle fail.

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

George Lucas is by no means a bad editor, quite the opposite.

Which is why the SE’s are such wonderful edits? (Such how Jabba the Hutt is edited in to exposit information already given by Greedo?) Or how the official PT edits cut key scenes about the birth of the Rebellion, in which Padme took part and had to hide it from her husband?

…Can’t tell if serious.

There is an argument that he got worse as he went along. The SE is baffling in many regards, and obviously that’s his worse sin.

But the problems of the PT mostly lie in the directing. Cutting out the rebellion scenes is honestly pretty smart, considering they add nothing to the story of the film itself and most of the acting in them is really bad.

And I’m not joking at all. The original Star Wars is a perfectly edited film. Mostly because of George Lucas.

chyron8472 said:

Collipso said:

chyron8472 said:

Collipso said:

SilverWook said:

joefavs said:

I’m of two minds on the Maul thing. I think bringing him back was a dumb idea and I’d never have done it if I was a showrunner, but once they’d done it they did go on to do some genuinely interesting things with him.

Wasn’t it Geroge’s idea?

Most of that show came from George’s ideas.

But that’s the key: they’re just his ideas. Not his writing or direction.

And?

And he’s a good ideas man, but he’s a bad editor, and not the best director. His ideas really only are done proper justice when he has a team of people to bounce things off of. That is, people who aren’t afraid to be critical and can point out when an idea or the implementation of it is bad.

Suffice it to say one reason (of the myriad) why the Prequels and SE changes are panned is because no one overruled George to say certain things shouldn’t be done, in contrast to the original Original Trilogy.

See also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFMyMxMYDNk
How Star Wars was Saved in the Edit.

I know that video, and I’ve watched it. You do realise that a director also has the job to direct other parts of the movie, such as editing. So even though the editing team of the original Star Wars was FANTASTIC, I’m not entirely sure if it would’ve turned out the way it did without Lucas.

TV’s Frink said:

Collipso said:

chyron8472 said:

Collipso said:

SilverWook said:

joefavs said:

I’m of two minds on the Maul thing. I think bringing him back was a dumb idea and I’d never have done it if I was a showrunner, but once they’d done it they did go on to do some genuinely interesting things with him.

Wasn’t it Geroge’s idea?

Most of that show came from George’s ideas.

But that’s the key: they’re just his ideas. Not his writing or direction.

And? It was asked if it was his idea and the answer is “yes, most of that show came from George’s ideas”. Let’s not bash someone for the sake of bashing. And I don’t even think he’s a bad director.

Really?

Working with actors is one of the most (if not the most) important jobs for a director, and he can’t do it. He hates doing it and it shows on screen. He can’t make bad actors better, he makes marginal actors bad, and he makes great actors average.

I don’t think he makes actors’ performances worse. He just allows the actors to have their own interpretations. Naturally that works sometimes and doesn’t work lots of times.
He’s just not a actor’s director. But, for example, cinematography and editing in all 6 Lucas films, for me, are better than in the 3 movies we’ve had since he’s out.

And for the record, I think we had some wooden acting in TLJ, mostly by Ridley and Boyega.

SilverWook said:

I think Marcia and the other editors deserve a lot of credit there too.

Obviously.

Collipso said:

TV’s Frink said:

Collipso said:

chyron8472 said:

Collipso said:

SilverWook said:

joefavs said:

I’m of two minds on the Maul thing. I think bringing him back was a dumb idea and I’d never have done it if I was a showrunner, but once they’d done it they did go on to do some genuinely interesting things with him.

Wasn’t it Geroge’s idea?

Most of that show came from George’s ideas.

But that’s the key: they’re just his ideas. Not his writing or direction.

And? It was asked if it was his idea and the answer is “yes, most of that show came from George’s ideas”. Let’s not bash someone for the sake of bashing. And I don’t even think he’s a bad director.

Really?

Working with actors is one of the most (if not the most) important jobs for a director, and he can’t do it. He hates doing it and it shows on screen. He can’t make bad actors better, he makes marginal actors bad, and he makes great actors average.

I don’t think he makes actors’ performances worse. He just allows the actors to have their own interpretations. Naturally that works sometimes and doesn’t work lots of times.
He’s just not a actor’s director. But, for example, cinematography and editing in all 6 Lucas films, for me, are better than in the 3 movies we’ve had since he’s out.

And for the record, I think we had some wooden acting in TLJ, mostly by Ridley and Boyega.

He’s not an actor’s director, you’re right, which is a problem when his dialogue is shit and unreadable.

Cinematography… ehhhh

George has a great eye, really he does have a great eye for good images. But he can’t move a camera to save his life.

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

TV’s Frink said:

Collipso said:

chyron8472 said:

Collipso said:

SilverWook said:

joefavs said:

I’m of two minds on the Maul thing. I think bringing him back was a dumb idea and I’d never have done it if I was a showrunner, but once they’d done it they did go on to do some genuinely interesting things with him.

Wasn’t it Geroge’s idea?

Most of that show came from George’s ideas.

But that’s the key: they’re just his ideas. Not his writing or direction.

And? It was asked if it was his idea and the answer is “yes, most of that show came from George’s ideas”. Let’s not bash someone for the sake of bashing. And I don’t even think he’s a bad director.

Really?

Working with actors is one of the most (if not the most) important jobs for a director, and he can’t do it. He hates doing it and it shows on screen. He can’t make bad actors better, he makes marginal actors bad, and he makes great actors average.

I don’t think he makes actors’ performances worse. He just allows the actors to have their own interpretations. Naturally that works sometimes and doesn’t work lots of times.
He’s just not a actor’s director. But, for example, cinematography and editing in all 6 Lucas films, for me, are better than in the 3 movies we’ve had since he’s out.

And for the record, I think we had some wooden acting in TLJ, mostly by Ridley and Boyega.

Cinematography… ehhhh

George has a great eye, really he does have a great eye for good images. But he can’t move a camera to save his life.

I disagree. THX 1138 and American Graffiti have some beautiful cinematography, just like the original Star Wars.

Of course he got pretty lazy in the prequels and adopted the ‘2 angles 1 couch’ method in the prequels, but you have some really beautiful images in the prequels.

Collipso said:

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

TV’s Frink said:

Collipso said:

chyron8472 said:

Collipso said:

SilverWook said:

joefavs said:

I’m of two minds on the Maul thing. I think bringing him back was a dumb idea and I’d never have done it if I was a showrunner, but once they’d done it they did go on to do some genuinely interesting things with him.

Wasn’t it Geroge’s idea?

Most of that show came from George’s ideas.

But that’s the key: they’re just his ideas. Not his writing or direction.

And? It was asked if it was his idea and the answer is “yes, most of that show came from George’s ideas”. Let’s not bash someone for the sake of bashing. And I don’t even think he’s a bad director.

Really?

Working with actors is one of the most (if not the most) important jobs for a director, and he can’t do it. He hates doing it and it shows on screen. He can’t make bad actors better, he makes marginal actors bad, and he makes great actors average.

I don’t think he makes actors’ performances worse. He just allows the actors to have their own interpretations. Naturally that works sometimes and doesn’t work lots of times.
He’s just not a actor’s director. But, for example, cinematography and editing in all 6 Lucas films, for me, are better than in the 3 movies we’ve had since he’s out.

And for the record, I think we had some wooden acting in TLJ, mostly by Ridley and Boyega.

Cinematography… ehhhh

George has a great eye, really he does have a great eye for good images. But he can’t move a camera to save his life.

I disagree. THX 1138 and American Graffiti have some beautiful cinematography, just like the original Star Wars.

Of course he got pretty lazy in the prequels and adopted the ‘2 angles 1 couch’ method in the prequels, but you have some really beautiful images in the prequels.

First of all, a lot of the beauty of the images should really be attributed to the actual cinematographers (and VFX/SPFX artists and production designers) more so than Lucas.

Second, yeah, the cinematography in his first three films are good. Like I said, he has a good eye, even in the prequels. But I don’t think cinematography is necessarily the original Star Wars’s strongest suit (not saying it’s bad). I can’t agree at all that episodes I-VI have better cinematography. In fact, I think TLJ might be the best of all the films in this regard. And if not TLJ, then definitely ESB, but George had nothing to do with the cinematography in that.

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

TV’s Frink said:

Collipso said:

chyron8472 said:

Collipso said:

SilverWook said:

joefavs said:

I’m of two minds on the Maul thing. I think bringing him back was a dumb idea and I’d never have done it if I was a showrunner, but once they’d done it they did go on to do some genuinely interesting things with him.

Wasn’t it Geroge’s idea?

Most of that show came from George’s ideas.

But that’s the key: they’re just his ideas. Not his writing or direction.

And? It was asked if it was his idea and the answer is “yes, most of that show came from George’s ideas”. Let’s not bash someone for the sake of bashing. And I don’t even think he’s a bad director.

Really?

Working with actors is one of the most (if not the most) important jobs for a director, and he can’t do it. He hates doing it and it shows on screen. He can’t make bad actors better, he makes marginal actors bad, and he makes great actors average.

I don’t think he makes actors’ performances worse. He just allows the actors to have their own interpretations. Naturally that works sometimes and doesn’t work lots of times.
He’s just not a actor’s director. But, for example, cinematography and editing in all 6 Lucas films, for me, are better than in the 3 movies we’ve had since he’s out.

And for the record, I think we had some wooden acting in TLJ, mostly by Ridley and Boyega.

He’s not an actor’s director, you’re right, which is a problem when his dialogue is shit and unreadable.

Cinematography… ehhhh

George has a great eye, really he does have a great eye for good images. But he can’t move a camera to save his life.

Well, yeah, he’s a terrible writer. His fourth script for TESB was a rough draft at best for Kasdan. But he knows it. He wrote Star Wars77 because of Coppola telling him he should write mostly. TESB and RotJ were 90% Kasdan.

TPM is a tricky one. I think Rick McCallum tried to bring in the guy who wrote Shawshank Redemption but Lucas went in a ego trip and decided to write it himself. Apparently he also met Kasdan at USC and asked him to take a look, but Kasdan refused politely, saying George should write himself so that he could say what he really want to say.

Apparently for AotC and RotS there was no time for a second person to come in and rewrite the script a la Kasdan, with the results being 3 awful scripts with bad actig because of the scripts.

RotS wasn’t as awful because of a “dialogue coach”, Chris something, who was basically a director for the actors. The script was still pretty bad though.

Star Wars77’s script had help from the actors themselves and some of Lucas’ friends and editing, otherwise it would’ve been prequel level bad.

Lucas did take some very bad decisions, such as making TPM the prequels’ prequel, which hurt the storyline pretty bad as well.

I think most of it is Lucas’ fault, yes, but honestly we’ve been too harsh to him. Except regardig the SEs. Those are beyond fucked up.

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

TV’s Frink said:

Collipso said:

chyron8472 said:

Collipso said:

SilverWook said:

joefavs said:

I’m of two minds on the Maul thing. I think bringing him back was a dumb idea and I’d never have done it if I was a showrunner, but once they’d done it they did go on to do some genuinely interesting things with him.

Wasn’t it Geroge’s idea?

Most of that show came from George’s ideas.

But that’s the key: they’re just his ideas. Not his writing or direction.

And? It was asked if it was his idea and the answer is “yes, most of that show came from George’s ideas”. Let’s not bash someone for the sake of bashing. And I don’t even think he’s a bad director.

Really?

Working with actors is one of the most (if not the most) important jobs for a director, and he can’t do it. He hates doing it and it shows on screen. He can’t make bad actors better, he makes marginal actors bad, and he makes great actors average.

I don’t think he makes actors’ performances worse. He just allows the actors to have their own interpretations. Naturally that works sometimes and doesn’t work lots of times.
He’s just not a actor’s director. But, for example, cinematography and editing in all 6 Lucas films, for me, are better than in the 3 movies we’ve had since he’s out.

And for the record, I think we had some wooden acting in TLJ, mostly by Ridley and Boyega.

Cinematography… ehhhh

George has a great eye, really he does have a great eye for good images. But he can’t move a camera to save his life.

I disagree. THX 1138 and American Graffiti have some beautiful cinematography, just like the original Star Wars.

Of course he got pretty lazy in the prequels and adopted the ‘2 angles 1 couch’ method in the prequels, but you have some really beautiful images in the prequels.

First of all, a lot of the beauty of the images should really be attributed to the actual cinematographers (and VFX/SPFX artists and production designers) more so than Lucas.

Second, yeah, the cinematography in his first three films are good. Like I said, he has a good eye, even in the prequels. But I don’t think cinematography is necessarily the original Star Wars’s strongest suit (not saying it’s bad). I can’t agree at all that episodes I-VI have better cinematography. In fact, I think TLJ might be the best of all the films in this regard. And if not TLJ, then definitely ESB, but George had nothing to do with the cinematography in that.

Yeah, well, TLJ cinematography is pretty good. God, the shaky R1 cameras drive me insane. I suppose I just prefer Lucas’ six films.

Maybe TLJ > AotC and RotS’ but I’m not entirely sure.

Collipso said:

TV’s Frink said:

Collipso said:

chyron8472 said:

Collipso said:

SilverWook said:

joefavs said:

I’m of two minds on the Maul thing. I think bringing him back was a dumb idea and I’d never have done it if I was a showrunner, but once they’d done it they did go on to do some genuinely interesting things with him.

Wasn’t it Geroge’s idea?

Most of that show came from George’s ideas.

But that’s the key: they’re just his ideas. Not his writing or direction.

And? It was asked if it was his idea and the answer is “yes, most of that show came from George’s ideas”. Let’s not bash someone for the sake of bashing. And I don’t even think he’s a bad director.

Really?

Working with actors is one of the most (if not the most) important jobs for a director, and he can’t do it. He hates doing it and it shows on screen. He can’t make bad actors better, he makes marginal actors bad, and he makes great actors average.

I don’t think he makes actors’ performances worse. He just allows the actors to have their own interpretations. Naturally that works sometimes and doesn’t work lots of times.

I don’t know why you think Jake’s and Natalie’s performances in TPM, just to pick two, are their faults due to their interpretations, rather than his failings as a director. He doesn’t like actors. He likes computers. And he’s spent most of his career trying to work less with the actors and more with the computers.

I agree we’ve been too hard on him. He’s very talented in many ways and we wouldn’t have the OT without him (and it wouldn’t have been as good as it is without him). But his talents are kinda all over the place. There are many things about the job of the director that makes him perfect for the job, but there are still many reasons why we can’t really call him a great director.

Collipso said:

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

TV’s Frink said:

Collipso said:

chyron8472 said:

Collipso said:

SilverWook said:

joefavs said:

I’m of two minds on the Maul thing. I think bringing him back was a dumb idea and I’d never have done it if I was a showrunner, but once they’d done it they did go on to do some genuinely interesting things with him.

Wasn’t it Geroge’s idea?

Most of that show came from George’s ideas.

But that’s the key: they’re just his ideas. Not his writing or direction.

And? It was asked if it was his idea and the answer is “yes, most of that show came from George’s ideas”. Let’s not bash someone for the sake of bashing. And I don’t even think he’s a bad director.

Really?

Working with actors is one of the most (if not the most) important jobs for a director, and he can’t do it. He hates doing it and it shows on screen. He can’t make bad actors better, he makes marginal actors bad, and he makes great actors average.

I don’t think he makes actors’ performances worse. He just allows the actors to have their own interpretations. Naturally that works sometimes and doesn’t work lots of times.
He’s just not a actor’s director. But, for example, cinematography and editing in all 6 Lucas films, for me, are better than in the 3 movies we’ve had since he’s out.

And for the record, I think we had some wooden acting in TLJ, mostly by Ridley and Boyega.

Cinematography… ehhhh

George has a great eye, really he does have a great eye for good images. But he can’t move a camera to save his life.

I disagree. THX 1138 and American Graffiti have some beautiful cinematography, just like the original Star Wars.

Of course he got pretty lazy in the prequels and adopted the ‘2 angles 1 couch’ method in the prequels, but you have some really beautiful images in the prequels.

First of all, a lot of the beauty of the images should really be attributed to the actual cinematographers (and VFX/SPFX artists and production designers) more so than Lucas.

Second, yeah, the cinematography in his first three films are good. Like I said, he has a good eye, even in the prequels. But I don’t think cinematography is necessarily the original Star Wars’s strongest suit (not saying it’s bad). I can’t agree at all that episodes I-VI have better cinematography. In fact, I think TLJ might be the best of all the films in this regard. And if not TLJ, then definitely ESB, but George had nothing to do with the cinematography in that.

Yeah, well, TLJ cinematography is pretty good. God, the shaky R1 cameras drive me insane. I suppose I just prefer Lucas’ six films.

Maybe TLJ > AotC and RotS’ but I’m not entirely sure.

Besides some really good shots, most the cinematography in AOTC and ROTS is pretty average, if not outright poor.

I get not liking RO style, that’s fine, for the most part it’s a really good looking film though (to the extent that it seems like for some things there’s no point beyond looking cool).

TV’s Frink said:

Collipso said:

TV’s Frink said:

Collipso said:

chyron8472 said:

Collipso said:

SilverWook said:

joefavs said:

I’m of two minds on the Maul thing. I think bringing him back was a dumb idea and I’d never have done it if I was a showrunner, but once they’d done it they did go on to do some genuinely interesting things with him.

Wasn’t it Geroge’s idea?

Most of that show came from George’s ideas.

But that’s the key: they’re just his ideas. Not his writing or direction.

And? It was asked if it was his idea and the answer is “yes, most of that show came from George’s ideas”. Let’s not bash someone for the sake of bashing. And I don’t even think he’s a bad director.

Really?

Working with actors is one of the most (if not the most) important jobs for a director, and he can’t do it. He hates doing it and it shows on screen. He can’t make bad actors better, he makes marginal actors bad, and he makes great actors average.

I don’t think he makes actors’ performances worse. He just allows the actors to have their own interpretations. Naturally that works sometimes and doesn’t work lots of times.

I don’t know why you think Jake’s and Natalie’s performances in TPM, just to pick two, are their faults due to their interpretations, rather than his failings as a director. He doesn’t like actors. He likes computers. And he’s spent most of his career trying to work less with the actors and more with the computers.

SOUNDS LIKE A SMART MAN

OR AT LEAST SMART FOR A HUMAN

Okay, real talk.

When did TIE Fighters become ships with air inside? Is this just a TFA thing or is the old pilot dependency thing non-movie level canon? If so why do the FO pilots still have the mask with a hose attached?

DominicCobb said:

I agree we’ve been too hard on him. He’s very talented in many ways and we wouldn’t have the OT without him (and it wouldn’t have been as good as it is without him). But his talents are kinda all over the place. There are many things about the job of the director that makes him perfect for the job, but there are still many reasons why we can’t really call him a great director.

Collipso said:

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

TV’s Frink said:

Collipso said:

chyron8472 said:

Collipso said:

SilverWook said:

joefavs said:

I’m of two minds on the Maul thing. I think bringing him back was a dumb idea and I’d never have done it if I was a showrunner, but once they’d done it they did go on to do some genuinely interesting things with him.

Wasn’t it Geroge’s idea?

Most of that show came from George’s ideas.

But that’s the key: they’re just his ideas. Not his writing or direction.

And? It was asked if it was his idea and the answer is “yes, most of that show came from George’s ideas”. Let’s not bash someone for the sake of bashing. And I don’t even think he’s a bad director.

Really?

Working with actors is one of the most (if not the most) important jobs for a director, and he can’t do it. He hates doing it and it shows on screen. He can’t make bad actors better, he makes marginal actors bad, and he makes great actors average.

I don’t think he makes actors’ performances worse. He just allows the actors to have their own interpretations. Naturally that works sometimes and doesn’t work lots of times.
He’s just not a actor’s director. But, for example, cinematography and editing in all 6 Lucas films, for me, are better than in the 3 movies we’ve had since he’s out.

And for the record, I think we had some wooden acting in TLJ, mostly by Ridley and Boyega.

Cinematography… ehhhh

George has a great eye, really he does have a great eye for good images. But he can’t move a camera to save his life.

I disagree. THX 1138 and American Graffiti have some beautiful cinematography, just like the original Star Wars.

Of course he got pretty lazy in the prequels and adopted the ‘2 angles 1 couch’ method in the prequels, but you have some really beautiful images in the prequels.

First of all, a lot of the beauty of the images should really be attributed to the actual cinematographers (and VFX/SPFX artists and production designers) more so than Lucas.

Second, yeah, the cinematography in his first three films are good. Like I said, he has a good eye, even in the prequels. But I don’t think cinematography is necessarily the original Star Wars’s strongest suit (not saying it’s bad). I can’t agree at all that episodes I-VI have better cinematography. In fact, I think TLJ might be the best of all the films in this regard. And if not TLJ, then definitely ESB, but George had nothing to do with the cinematography in that.

Yeah, well, TLJ cinematography is pretty good. God, the shaky R1 cameras drive me insane. I suppose I just prefer Lucas’ six films.

Maybe TLJ > AotC and RotS’ but I’m not entirely sure.

Besides some really good shots, most the cinematography in AOTC and ROTS is pretty average, if not outright poor.

I get not liking RO style, that’s fine, for the most part it’s a really good looking film though (to the extent that it seems like for some things there’s no point beyond looking cool).

I need to watch the PT again for us to have this discussion. I do realize I might be sounding like a George Lucas apologist, by saying even his poor cinematography is incredible. I didn’t like it in TFA or R1 however, but TLJ’s really knocked it out of the park.

TV’s Frink said:

Collipso said:

TV’s Frink said:

Collipso said:

chyron8472 said:

Collipso said:

SilverWook said:

joefavs said:

I’m of two minds on the Maul thing. I think bringing him back was a dumb idea and I’d never have done it if I was a showrunner, but once they’d done it they did go on to do some genuinely interesting things with him.

Wasn’t it Geroge’s idea?

Most of that show came from George’s ideas.

But that’s the key: they’re just his ideas. Not his writing or direction.

And? It was asked if it was his idea and the answer is “yes, most of that show came from George’s ideas”. Let’s not bash someone for the sake of bashing. And I don’t even think he’s a bad director.

Really?

Working with actors is one of the most (if not the most) important jobs for a director, and he can’t do it. He hates doing it and it shows on screen. He can’t make bad actors better, he makes marginal actors bad, and he makes great actors average.

I don’t think he makes actors’ performances worse. He just allows the actors to have their own interpretations. Naturally that works sometimes and doesn’t work lots of times.

I don’t know why you think Jake’s and Natalie’s performances in TPM, just to pick two, are their faults due to their interpretations, rather than his failings as a director. He doesn’t like actors. He likes computers. And he’s spent most of his career trying to work less with the actors and more with the computers.

Lloyd was 8 or 7 and Portman was like 16. If you leave them acting by themselves with little to no guidance with an awful script you’ll most certainly get bad acting in response. Lucas’ script didn’t suit Lucas’ style as director.

In short, yes, it’s his fault that they acted poorly, but that’s always been his style, his way of directing. It definitely doesn’t suit child actors. Fisher was pretty far from good in ANH, to be honest, to show that it’s always been like this.