Who cares about a nice DVD of the 2004 SE anyway? There's nothing depressing about holding on to that. There's a holy grail of Star Wars sources, but that's the total opposite of what that is.
dark_jedi said:
Erikstormtrooper said:
The fact that he has the DVD version completed, but is sitting on it, is more depressing than if he'd never done it in the first place.
If indeed he "really" has a completed DVD, until we see it, I have my own opinion of not believing it.
I personally believe him. I wonder if it'll end up leaking out (ala Editdroid set). While I respect his decision and know that he has the right not to release it, I find myself screaming: (note that I didn't personally create this photo)
The real problem more than anything else (other than George being so unreasonable in the first place :) ) is having access to the scenes that were altered in the SE in a non-SE form, and also in high quality. If a high quality source like that has been found, then that would be fantastic. :)
The Star Wars trilogy. There can be only one.
So, was Mike's first set (the one that he has completed) sourced from a film print or was it a 2004 DVD with changes removed? Is the new one sourced from a film print?
I seem to recall him having access to a better source than the 2004 SE DVD set, not sure what. But not on the level of this new source, this new one is off-the-charts! 8O)
The Star Wars trilogy. There can be only one.
I have a question for you guys here that are like me and do not hate the SE's LOL(that said I prefer the OT, but SE's are still cool) I have read, and have heard, that the 2004 SE is pretty close to the right color scheme for Star Wars or ANH if you prefer, so that said, does anyone know which scenes are still way off? this would help in my next project but I am big time lacking in the correct color dept., I assume most of it is right, please correct me if I am wrong.
*edit, I probably should have said possible next project, I might be setting my hopes up way to high.
The whole film is way off. The shot-by-shot colouring is pretty fucked, especially since it seems that many of the problems were ones the 2004 set created in the first place. In terms of colour information, usually its all there which is good, but the colours have been boosted and manipulated in unnatural ways that often makes them look ugly (i.e. skin tones, colour casts, popping, inconsistent colours, desaturation, oversaturation). In some ways its easier than the GOUT because the colour is all there you just have to tweak each shot, but that shot-by-shot manipulation is a lot more work than the GOUT which mainly just requires a gamma and saturation boost. If you look at Mike Verta's page on CC'ing the 2004 version you can see it is a lot more work than it looks at first. Wouldn't Adywan have already done this though? He probably has a CC'd 2004 master sitting somewhere from before he began editing and vfx work.
zombie84 said:
The whole film is way off. The shot-by-shot colouring is pretty fucked, especially since it seems that many of the problems were ones the 2004 set created in the first place. In terms of colour information, usually its all there which is good, but the colours have been boosted and manipulated in unnatural ways that often makes them look ugly (i.e. skin tones, colour casts, popping, inconsistent colours, desaturation, oversaturation). In some ways its easier than the GOUT because the colour is all there you just have to tweak each shot, but that shot-by-shot manipulation is a lot more work than the GOUT which mainly just requires a gamma and saturation boost. If you look at Mike Verta's page on CC'ing the 2004 version you can see it is a lot more work than it looks at first. Wouldn't Adywan have already done this though? He probably has a CC'd 2004 master sitting somewhere from before he began editing and vfx work.
I don't know what Mike Verta's page is, so never seen it, and damn if this just doesn't get more frackin confusing every damn day LOL, because when it comes right down to it, NOT everyone is going to happy with whatever coloring is done, everyone see's things differently, like you have people thinking lee's attempts in his new thread is the end all, be all, GOUT settings, well to me and a few others, they still don't look right at all, but whatever, that is his thing, and that is cool, I just wish we had something 100% concrete SOLID to gauge with(and a good video source) I also have been using your ideas and giving them a shot in AE, they do look promising, so is that the general consensus here that color tweaking the GOUT is easier than tweaking the 04's? and I know the 04's are the SE, just pretend it isn't.
Damn this wouldn't even be an issue if they were just released the way they were back then LOL.
@DJ: http://www.starwarslegacy.com/ Check out the stuff under "the restoration" to see the sort of things he was doing.
Also, I don't see what the problem with Lee's stuff is, its pretty much the exact same correction on GForce's script except better because the colour and contrast is stronger. Its not like he is fucking around with the colours, he is just unwashing some of the washed out GOUT colouration. He doesn't go far enough IMO, but as it is the most saturated correction of all the projects so far that probably makes it the most "authentic" looking. I do understand his decision for wanting to hold back on the saturation though, as he is trying to make this watchable and not popping and artifacting the way a "better" colouration would. It's a tough balancing act.
@zombie84, OK everyone seems to think those Technicolor pics are what SW is suppose to look like, and nothing else, so what in your opinion is the gauge for ESB and ROTJ to look Theatrical? I would assume you CANNOT just carry over the settings from SW to the other 2.
also is there a place where those Technicolor prints can be downloaded at a higher resolution?
Thanks
Yeah, my website has them in HD res basically.
http://savestarwars.com/technicoloribscreening.html
It is not that the pics have to be matched exactly, because they aren't totally accurate, the contrast and exposure and tinting is slightly off because they are just screen photographs. But they give you a rough idea to guide you, which is one reason why I wanted to create the page here. They are pretty accurate in terms of saturation, though.
And yeah, at least with ESB you can't just port over the exact same settings, although the settings for the other films should not be radically different. There is a consistent method in that you just increase the saturation, shift it cyan, and dial down the reds. SW requires some brightness and contrast increase because it is so dim, but I don't think ESB require much or any, though I haven't taken a second go at ESB.
Thank you for the link, I will grab those pics.
Dunedain said:
And yes, he never said he would publicly release it when he was done, because of the trouble it would cause.
I mean no disrespect to anyone when I say.....
Everyone who does a restoration, archive, or edit falls in to this category, not just him. I would guess that he is not interested in releasing the fruits of his labor because it's his labor.
Anyone whom has done a restoration, edit, or archive has based it upon work done by others before them. The only difference is that those doing them have access to different or limited types of resource. They still work hard and then share them. I wonder how many edits, archives, or restorations he has in his collection that were labored on by others. I also wonder how many people own the "Han Shot First" shirts @ $20.00 a pop.
It's all relative and a horse a piece really.
It is also perfectly natural for those here who now know about this to be interested in a release because they've probably done their own and/or been helped by the generosity of others so the community could benefit from it.
My own opinion is, if he's uninterested in helping out the community by releasing what he's done then the subject should stay hidden in the closet with his project until he's ready for his close-up.
Again, no disrespect or ill will directed towards anyone, it's just how I feel.
Long Live Star Wars!!!!
:)
To be fair, he does work in the industry, which paints a much bigger target on his back than someone like, say, Adywan, who doesn't.
In regards to mverta, I believe he also has the problem of being involved in the business. So, if word got out he was responsible for a new version of Star Wars going around, he ... would probably be in more trouble than one of us.
edit: damn it Ash! My internet went funky for one minute and my post was delayed... you beat me to it.
A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em
ChainsawAsh said:
To be fair, he does work in the industry, which paints a much bigger target on his back than someone like, say, Adywan, who doesn't.
Trent Reznor works in the music industry and he openly admitted to downloading music via torrents and was open about his membership @ OiNk's.
What the Original Unaltered Trilogy needs is more open and seasoned supporters like himself. Maybe when mverta is ready....he'll share his vision and hard work with this ever-growing community as so many others have before him.
It will be a day long remembered when it comes.
:)
If he's doing his own sort of restoration of the original, probably someone will leak it, even if it's a friend of his. His "Legacy" version was just his own thing. It's not like he has any obligation to release it anyway; he's not really part of the community here. He's just a VFX guy who wanted to correct the SE to his liking and built a website to show what he was doing; eventually he lost interest in updating the website, but finished the "Legacy" cut nonetheless. Not a big deal.
Has anyone come up with AviSynth settings that would work for this? I liked adywan's screenshots, and zombie's recent ones look great too, so settings that could replicate that would be fantastic, but someone more experienced with video than me should be the one to come up with them. lol
So I thought I'd take a closer look at the old WOW! montage, originally created for the THX WOW laserdisc and later included (in anamorphic widescreen) on the THX Ultimate Demo Disc (previously discussed here).
Check out this comparison for starters:
^ WOW!
^ GOUT
Two things are very clear: 1) the GOUT image is so desaturated it looks almost greyscale, and 2) the GOUT white levels are severely clipped - compare the overhead lights and the corresponding blob on the luma graph to the right.
More to come when I get a chance.
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I know this has been asked before, but has anyone come up with a good avisynth line yet? because obviously there is more that can be done with the color.
I know I wouldn't mind doing another version but I really don't want to use a stand alone program unless it is absolutely necessary, it seems like a waste to filter with the script, then turn around and process again with something else.
I'm curious to know if SmoothCurve() would be of any use. With a bit of number crunching, you could generate Y, U and V curves to adjust the GOUT colouring to match a different reference. The big question then is what would these curves do to the rest of the film?
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dark_jedi said:
Can I get that preset you mention? OH, and which version are you using or does it matter?
Sorry d_j, missed this post. Here is the preset:
http://hotfile.com/dl/107827077/bcb873f/anh_gout_recolour_final.ffx.html
Just stick it into your user presets folder. I'm using CS4, but it should still work in CS5, but not sure about earlier versions
adywan said:
dark_jedi said:
Can I get that preset you mention? OH, and which version are you using or does it matter?
Sorry d_j, missed this post. Here is the preset:
http://hotfile.com/dl/107827077/bcb873f/anh_gout_recolour_final.ffx.html
Just stick it into your user presets folder. I'm using CS4, but it should still work in CS5, but not sure about earlier versions
Thank you much, CS5 is what I have, I will give it a try for sure.
Moth3r said:
So I thought I'd take a closer look at the old WOW! montage, originally created for the THX WOW laserdisc and later included (in anamorphic widescreen) on the THX Ultimate Demo Disc (previously discussed here).
Check out this comparison for starters:
^ WOW!
^ GOUTTwo things are very clear: 1) the GOUT image is so desaturated it looks almost greyscale, and 2) the GOUT white levels are severely clipped - compare the overhead lights and the corresponding blob on the luma graph to the right.
More to come when I get a chance.
Yeah, it's good that you mention that, because it's something that doesn't get discussed very often when it comes to the GOUT and it's also one of the reasons the JSC LD- transfers are superior source material IMO, the clipped white levels of the GOUT and the crushed black levels of the 2004 DVD's is equally problematic. And both screw up the color values.
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
I did a bit of experimenting with the AviSynth filter ColourLike: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=96308
Works by generating histograms from one source and modifying another to more closely resemble it. Tried it on the rancor scene in RotJ, modifying the 2004 version based on the GOUT colours (with a saturation increase and hue shift away from red) and the results seem promising.
I have a feeling it probably works better when the sources aren't too radically different--the scenes of Luke lost in the snow in ESB looked pretty terrible; the colour was mostly right but some elements became inexplicably bright purple(?!) and there was crazy blocking going on in the backgrounds sometimes. That whole sequence is so screwed up in the SE, it's like there's a thick blue haze over the entire image; so manual correction is the only way to fix that, but it works better elsewhere. I don't remember if this is the same method that was being discussed a couple years back or not.
Of course this filter can only work with the data that is already present in the SE images. Parts that are completely desaturated, like the Star Destroyer laser blasts in the beginning of ANH, can't be rescued with such a method.
I put up a few images for comparison. I'd be curious for any opinions. Right now I'm just experimenting with this, but I might continue if it works well enough. As I've said, I'm not really wired towards video the way I am with sound, but it's interesting in its own way.
Jabba GOUT: http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/6792/gout2.png
Jabba SE: http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4076/se2h.png
Jabba test: http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/9264/test2o.png
3PO GOUT: http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4723/gout3.png
3PO SE: http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/3185/se3.png
3PO test: http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/4089/test3c.png
Luke GOUT: http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/1589/gout1.png
Luke SE: http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/1327/se1v.png
Luke test: http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/706/test1zf.png