Filmmaker and New Yorker film critic Richard Brody's thoughts on the prequels. — Page 6

Wasn’t responding to you.

yotsuya said:

I don’t seriously think any of the characters in the PT are intended to be racist in any way. I think it is the result of certain shortcuts Hollywood has always taken in creating accents. They can’t hardly do anything without making it sound like something that already exists. Everyone seems to keep focusing on Jar Jar’s idiocy as some indication, ignoring that the rest of the Gungans aren’t idiots but talk exactly the same way. Watto is only racist if you want him to be. His accent is indistinct, he has wiskers like many lazy men do, and he is a business man. There is more of Fred Sanford (and even more of Steptoe, the original character) in him than anything Jewish. He seems like the kind of shady junk dealer you might find on the East Coast and his accent bears this out. And Nute Gunray is too tall fit the typical image of a stereotyped Asian. They have strange pupil, not strange eyes. I don’t see any deliberate attempt to craft characters based on extant races. I see a huge attempt to craft unique creatures who speak uniquely (like Yoda). It’s supposed to be a big galaxy, but this planet isn’t big enough to escape comparisons that I do not think were intended.

None of this comes close to the faux pas of Hollywood when it was being racist.

I think there are plenty of faults with the PT without making them up.

EDIT: I see why you thought I was addressing you with that half of my post, so I modified my original post to make it more clear who I was addressing.

Dek Rollins said:

All I have to say is this:

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/Racism.html

I don’t agree with everything he states, but I definitely agree with most of his points on TPM.

I agree as well. Most science fiction properties of any weight have to deal with this at some point or another these days. The ones that skip accents usually miss out on most. As someone well versed in several Asian languages (not fluent, just familiar with how they sound and being able to tell them apart) as well as having paid attention to the large number of Asian actors in Hollywood (especially those from overseas who have acceents), I have never been able to hear any real Accent in the Neimoidians. I’m also familiar with several notable Hollywood movies with white actors portraying Asian characters with accents and the Neimoidian accent is like nothing I’ve heard before. I find it funny they mention Charlie Chan. I wonder how many people who think the Neimoidian accent sounds like him have ever seen a Charlie Chan movie. He speaks nothing like that. I have never seen or heard one credible claim that Neimoidians are based on Asian in any way.

I have no doubt that Lucas and co. didn’t intend for the characters to be racist (hard to believe they would), but the simple fact of the matter is they very much appear that way. Whether it was subconscious or simply ignorant, I don’t know. I think Lucas was simply trying to draw from the real world and was unknowingly creating racial caricatures.

Still, just because the actor or someone else says it wasn’t meant as racist doesn’t mean it isn’t. Jar Jar’s basically Stepin Fetchit (I would really be surprised if Lucas was unaware of his work and not influenced in some way). Maybe it’s a coincidence the Nemoidians seem like asian stereotypes but still a decision was made at some point to give them slit eyes and a heavy asian accent. No one’s being evil here it’s just a matter of some unfortunate creative decisions.

DominicCobb said:

I have no doubt that Lucas and co. didn’t intend for the characters to be racist (hard to believe they would), but the simple fact of the matter is they very much appear that way. Whether it was subconscious or simply ignorant, I don’t know. I think Lucas was simply trying to draw from the real world and was unknowingly creating racial caricatures.

Still, just because the actor or someone else says it wasn’t meant as racist doesn’t mean it isn’t. Jar Jar’s basically Stepin Fetchit (I would really be surprised if Lucas was unaware of his work and not influenced in some way). Maybe it’s a coincidence the Nemoidians seem like asian stereotypes but still a decision was made at some point to give them slit eyes and a heavy asian accent. No one’s being evil here it’s just a matter of some unfortunate creative decisions.

Slit eyes? Open yours, they have large round, red eyes with horizontal pupils. Reminds me of sideways goat eyes (except goats have hourglass pupils). Their eyes have more in common with Marty Feldman than with any Asian I have ever seen.

And I think you are misinformed on how much like that old black character actor’s parts Jar Jar is.

Yes I am well aware that their eyes are not actually slit, I didn’t mean literally. Look at the pupils. Point remains. As I said I can buy it as a coincidence but it’s still an unfortunate one.

I don’t find any of it offensive and I think the racial caricatures are least of those characters’ problems, but to dismiss the accusations outright is silly. This isn’t binary. It’s not “is George Lucas an evil racist or isn’t he.” It’s a bit more complicated than that.

I thought zombie did a pretty good job on the subject in the Secret History of Star Wars.

Dek Rollins said:
Neither their eyes nor their accent bear any resemblance to an Asian stereotype.

You’re joking right? Please tell me you’re joking…

DominicCobb said:

I have no doubt that Lucas and co. didn’t intend for the characters to be racist (hard to believe they would), but the simple fact of the matter is they very much appear that way.

This.

Whether it was subconscious or simply ignorant, I don’t know. I think Lucas was simply trying to draw from the real world and was unknowingly creating racial caricatures.

And this.

Still, just because the actor or someone else says it wasn’t meant as racist doesn’t mean it isn’t.

And this!

Intent matters, so I don’t think Lucas is necessarily a racist, but he made some really bad choices.

SilverWook said:

DominicCobb said:

Yes I am well aware that their eyes are not actually slit, I didn’t mean literally. Look at the pupils. Point remains. As I said I can buy it as a coincidence but it’s still an unfortunate one.

And if they all talked with a California surfer accent, nobody would even notice the eyes.

But they don’t, so we do.

If the Episode III doc about designing General Grievous is typical of the process, characters are designed with just a vague description by George, and the concept artists never even see the script.

But he signs off on everything, as the docs also show.

SilverWook said:

DominicCobb said:

Yes I am well aware that their eyes are not actually slit, I didn’t mean literally. Look at the pupils. Point remains. As I said I can buy it as a coincidence but it’s still an unfortunate one.

And if they all talked with a California surfer accent, nobody would even notice the eyes.

If the Episode III doc about designing General Grievous is typical of the process, characters are designed with just a vague description by George, and the concept artists never even see the script.

True. It’s the combination that’s problematic. And even if Georgie didn’t ask for slit-looking pupils, he still chose them and gave them the accent which could have easily been a choice made after seeing their design (again, not saying this was a conscious, racist decision).

SilverWook said:

DominicCobb said:

Yes I am well aware that their eyes are not actually slit, I didn’t mean literally. Look at the pupils. Point remains. As I said I can buy it as a coincidence but it’s still an unfortunate one.

And if they all talked with a California surfer accent

Like a turtle from Finding Nemo? 😉

John Doom said:

TV’s Frink said:

SilverWook said:
And if they all talked with a California surfer accent, nobody would even notice the eyes.

But they don’t, so we do.

What if I told you they speak with a Russian accent in TPM’s Italian dub 😄

Too late, what has been seen can’t be unseen.

moviefreakedmind said:

George Lucas is not racist. His admiration for the Tuskegee airmen should make that clear.

We are not arguing he is.

Dek Rollins said:
Why didn’t you refute my statement with actual proof instead of just linking to what we’re talking about right now?

Posting a video in which they’re talking isn’t proof enough?

Dek Rollins said:
Now you’re just avoiding making a real argument, which shows me that you have no way of arguing your opinion on the matter.

Me posting evidence of their heavy Asian accent is making a real argument unlike you who has been trying to worm your way around it and hiding in the shade of Lucas’ nutsack.

Me posting that is like me debating with a fundamentalist Christian who doesn’t believe in evolution and posting Homo Habilis or something to only meet a response of “you’re not making an argument”

Lord Haseo said:

hiding in the shade of Lucas’ nutsack.

When you post things like this, I wish you weren’t arguing the same side I am.

TV’s Frink said:
When you post things like this, I wish you weren’t arguing the same side I am.

I can see why lol