logo Sign In

Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 32

Author
Time
Post link

Humby said:

I think ‘The Last Jedi’ refers to Luke abandoning the conceptual ideals of the Jedi, which is what led to their downfall in the first place (and possibly what led to his failure with Ben and the loss of his students).

Luke will be the Last Jedi because he abandons those ideals when he trains Rey. Rey’s training will embrace both the dark and the light, but only in an attempt to do what is right and just. We saw him sort of embrace that in ROTJ, and maybe that scared him, but after losing all of his students and reexamineing the ideals of past Jedi, he realizes that suppressing the dark side isn’t the best way to go. So he teaches Rey to embrace love, and to accept possesion and attachment as a natural part of life and the force.

So he, in the end, truly is the last Jedi. That would be a good way to both acknowledge the prequels, but also distance itself from them.

But I do think he will at least make it to Episode IX

If this is how it shakes out, Ep 8 may become one of my favorite Star Wars films. I just hope we’re not building a brilliant movie in our heads only to find out that there’s nothing more to it than Luke deciding not to train Rey. Keep those expectations low!

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

Author
Time
Post link

I’m praying for no prequel references. That’s all. I honestly don’t care about anything else.

Author
Time
Post link

stealthboy said:

I’m praying for no prequel references. That’s all. I honestly don’t care about anything else.

I think I’m going to judge the film on how good it is, rather than if there’s a random comment about Geonosis.

Author
Time
Post link

TV’s Frink said:

stealthboy said:

I’m praying for no prequel references. That’s all. I honestly don’t care about anything else.

I think I’m going to judge the film on how good it is, rather than if there’s a random comment about Geonosis.

Sounds unreasonable.

Author
Time
Post link

Humby said:

I think ‘The Last Jedi’ refers to Luke abandoning the conceptual ideals of the Jedi, which is what led to their downfall in the first place (and possibly what led to his failure with Ben and the loss of his students).

Luke will be the Last Jedi because he abandons those ideals when he trains Rey. Rey’s training will embrace both the dark and the light, but only in an attempt to do what is right and just. We saw him sort of embrace that in ROTJ, and maybe that scared him, but after losing all of his students and reexamineing the ideals of past Jedi, he realizes that suppressing the dark side isn’t the best way to go. So he teaches Rey to embrace love, and to accept possesion and attachment as a natural part of life and the force.

So he, in the end, truly is the last Jedi. That would be a good way to both acknowledge the prequels, but also distance itself from them.

But I do think he will at least make it to Episode IX

I would LOVE this!

Return of the Jedi: Remastered

Lord of the Rings: The Darth Rush Definitives

Author
Time
Post link

stealthboy said:

I’m praying for no prequel references. That’s all. I honestly don’t care about anything else.

I’m praying that it’s nothing but prequel references.

Author
Time
Post link

stealthboy said:

I’m praying for no prequel references. That’s all. I honestly don’t care about anything else.

I don’t mind small ones, like in TFA there was talk of balance in the Force and mention of a Clone Army. That’s fine. Even Bail Organa in Rogue One was ok- he had such a small role in the PT that he was untainted.

It seems like people are really embracing the new characters. In fact, the big question people ask me now about Star Wars is, “Are Finn and Poe gay lovers?” And really how the f*ck would I know? My second husband left me for a man, so my gaydar isn’t exactly what you’d call Death Star level quality. ----Carrie Fisher

Author
Time
Post link

darthrush said:

Humby said:

I think ‘The Last Jedi’ refers to Luke abandoning the conceptual ideals of the Jedi, which is what led to their downfall in the first place (and possibly what led to his failure with Ben and the loss of his students).

Luke will be the Last Jedi because he abandons those ideals when he trains Rey. Rey’s training will embrace both the dark and the light, but only in an attempt to do what is right and just. We saw him sort of embrace that in ROTJ, and maybe that scared him, but after losing all of his students and reexamineing the ideals of past Jedi, he realizes that suppressing the dark side isn’t the best way to go. So he teaches Rey to embrace love, and to accept possesion and attachment as a natural part of life and the force.

So he, in the end, truly is the last Jedi. That would be a good way to both acknowledge the prequels, but also distance itself from them.

But I do think he will at least make it to Episode IX

I would LOVE this!

Resisting the darkness is a conflict, as well as it seems that for Kylo it is to resist the Light. Supressing that renouncement in both cases implies supressing the implicit conflict in those characters, whose development is strictly attached to how they learn to cope with their special conditions (being orphans, handling the force, etc.). If the Force is presented as an harmonic whole, a unity of both dark and light, then we might be left with just the story of some people with superpowers among regular people.

While I do think too that it would be nice and different to see in a Star Wars movie, the further implications of a superpowered person with a flexible moral compass doesn’t seem hollywoodsy, nor Campbellian enough to have a feasible development in IX.

The acceptance of a dark and a light in balance seems to be the meaning of elder wiseness in Star Wars, in Yoda and in Obi Wan (whose ridiculously just-because Jedi Code was responsible for the destruction of the Order), in Vader, perhaps even in this Sequel Trilogy Luke. But I don’t see it being appliable to an idealistic teen/young Rey that by her sole age should be the force that tries to fix the wretched world.

Author
Time
Post link

NeverarGreat said:

Humby said:

I think ‘The Last Jedi’ refers to Luke abandoning the conceptual ideals of the Jedi, which is what led to their downfall in the first place (and possibly what led to his failure with Ben and the loss of his students).

Luke will be the Last Jedi because he abandons those ideals when he trains Rey. Rey’s training will embrace both the dark and the light, but only in an attempt to do what is right and just. We saw him sort of embrace that in ROTJ, and maybe that scared him, but after losing all of his students and reexamineing the ideals of past Jedi, he realizes that suppressing the dark side isn’t the best way to go. So he teaches Rey to embrace love, and to accept possesion and attachment as a natural part of life and the force.

So he, in the end, truly is the last Jedi. That would be a good way to both acknowledge the prequels, but also distance itself from them.

But I do think he will at least make it to Episode IX

If this is how it shakes out, Ep 8 may become one of my favorite Star Wars films. I just hope we’re not building a brilliant movie in our heads only to find out that there’s nothing more to it than Luke deciding not to train Rey. Keep those expectations low!

“Expectations low” is a bad way of looking at it. Realize that if the film does something other than what you expected, that it doesn’t mean that something is automatically worse, just different.

Author
Time
Post link

stealthboy said:

I’m praying for no prequel references. That’s all. I honestly don’t care about anything else.

Johnson is a noted prequel devil’s advocate. There’s little chance he’ll litter the film with references, but if the Jedi is to be a large part of it (and at this point that’s probably a safe assumption), then one can expect a passing reference or two to the old Jedi order. And if that’s the case, there’s no way it won’t align with what’s in the prequels.

So yeah, don’t expect the film to be devoid of PT references, though I doubt there’ll be too many more than in TFA.

Author
Time
Post link

Humby said:

I think ‘The Last Jedi’ refers to Luke abandoning the conceptual ideals of the Jedi, which is what led to their downfall in the first place (and possibly what led to his failure with Ben and the loss of his students).

Luke will be the Last Jedi because he abandons those ideals when he trains Rey. Rey’s training will embrace both the dark and the light, but only in an attempt to do what is right and just. We saw him sort of embrace that in ROTJ, and maybe that scared him, but after losing all of his students and reexamineing the ideals of past Jedi, he realizes that suppressing the dark side isn’t the best way to go. So he teaches Rey to embrace love, and to accept possesion and attachment as a natural part of life and the force.

So he, in the end, truly is the last Jedi. That would be a good way to both acknowledge the prequels, but also distance itself from them.

But I do think he will at least make it to Episode IX

This does not make any sense. If you abandon the conceptual ideals of the Jedi then you are not Jedi any more.

真実

Author
Time
Post link

TV’s Frink said:

stealthboy said:

I’m praying for no prequel references. That’s all. I honestly don’t care about anything else.

I think I’m going to judge the film on how good it is, rather than if there’s a random comment about Geonosis.

This. TFA had no PT references and it sucked. On the other hand, R1 had PT references and it was good.

真実

Author
Time
Post link

imperialscum said:

Humby said:

I think ‘The Last Jedi’ refers to Luke abandoning the conceptual ideals of the Jedi, which is what led to their downfall in the first place (and possibly what led to his failure with Ben and the loss of his students).

Luke will be the Last Jedi because he abandons those ideals when he trains Rey. Rey’s training will embrace both the dark and the light, but only in an attempt to do what is right and just. We saw him sort of embrace that in ROTJ, and maybe that scared him, but after losing all of his students and reexamineing the ideals of past Jedi, he realizes that suppressing the dark side isn’t the best way to go. So he teaches Rey to embrace love, and to accept possesion and attachment as a natural part of life and the force.

So he, in the end, truly is the last Jedi. That would be a good way to both acknowledge the prequels, but also distance itself from them.

But I do think he will at least make it to Episode IX

This does not make any sense. If you abandon the conceptual ideals of the Jedi then you are not Jedi any more.

Not Jedi in the traditional sense but who’s to say that he or Rey won’t rename the Order? If there was ever a time for Grey Jedi to be made canon…

Author
Time
Post link

If we look at the official canon (which informs the films), I would argue that the Jedi Order at the end of the PT as we have it now are no longer Jedi, but instead a bunch of decadent, complacent soldiers who were maybe more complicit in their downfall than Palpatine was. The public hated them, too (if you watch The Clone Wars, all this becomes even more apparent). Hell, even Yoda at the time was complacent and more interested in fighting than the Force.

Trying to go back to that, or evoking that time seems like it would be a mistake. The Jedi Order was not as infallible or even as good as we were lead to believe by the rose-colored glasses of the OT. In fact, even by the time we get to ROTJ, Luke more or less casts off what Obi-Wan and Yoda tell him (that Vader is beyond help and must be destroyed) and he proves them wrong. If anything, Luke in all his greyness is more a true Jedi than Yoda ever was.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

END OF LINE

(It hasn’t happened yet)

Author
Time
 (Edited)
Post link

imperialscum said:

This does not make any sense. If you abandon the conceptual ideals of the Jedi then you are not Jedi any more.

That’s the point though. Once Luke abandons them, the Jedi no longer exist. He was the Last Jedi.

Edit: After rereading my original post, I think the confusion might be near the end where I said he “truly is the last Jedi”, where perhaps I should’ve said he “was” rather than “is”.

Author
Time
Post link

imperialscum said:

TV’s Frink said:

stealthboy said:

I’m praying for no prequel references. That’s all. I honestly don’t care about anything else.

I think I’m going to judge the film on how good it is, rather than if there’s a random comment about Geonosis.

This. TFA had no PT references and it sucked. On the other hand, R1 had PT references and it was good.

After Finn’s defection, one of the New Order guys was touting how clone troops would be better.

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time
Post link

SilverWook said:

imperialscum said:

TV’s Frink said:

stealthboy said:

I’m praying for no prequel references. That’s all. I honestly don’t care about anything else.

I think I’m going to judge the film on how good it is, rather than if there’s a random comment about Geonosis.

This. TFA had no PT references and it sucked. On the other hand, R1 had PT references and it was good.

After Finn’s defection, one of the New Order guys was touting how clone troops would be better.

And there were several other references as well. Those who proclaim the loudest to possess the truth are often those who have the weakest grasp on it.

Author
Time
 (Edited)
Post link

Tyrphanax said:

If we look at the official canon (which informs the films), I would argue that the Jedi Order at the end of the PT as we have it now are no longer Jedi, but instead a bunch of decadent, complacent soldiers who were maybe more complicit in their downfall than Palpatine was. The public hated them, too (if you watch The Clone Wars, all this becomes even more apparent). Hell, even Yoda at the time was complacent and more interested in fighting than the Force.

Trying to go back to that, or evoking that time seems like it would be a mistake. The Jedi Order was not as infallible or even as good as we were lead to believe by the rose-colored glasses of the OT. In fact, even by the time we get to ROTJ, Luke more or less casts off what Obi-Wan and Yoda tell him (that Vader is beyond help and must be destroyed) and he proves them wrong. If anything, Luke in all his greyness is more a true Jedi than Yoda ever was.

This is how I always have saw it. It’s also why I have a theory that Luke is the true chosen one. When it says bring balance to the force I think it meant what Luke ultimately did. He learned to strike a balance between the light and the dark. The Jedi and the Sith were the two unhealthy extremes and the saga finished (until disney) with Luke becoming a grey jedi. That is always how I viewed the saga.

Return of the Jedi: Remastered

Lord of the Rings: The Darth Rush Definitives

Author
Time
 (Edited)
Post link

Humby said:

imperialscum said:

This does not make any sense. If you abandon the conceptual ideals of the Jedi then you are not Jedi any more.

That’s the point though. Once Luke abandons them, the Jedi no longer exist. He was the Last Jedi.

Edit: After rereading my original post, I think the confusion might be near the end where I said he “truly is the last Jedi”, where perhaps I should’ve said he “was” rather than “is”.

I see what you mean. But still it wouldn’t explain the reason for the title “The Last Jedi” if he hasn’t been Jedi for a while.

真実

Author
Time
Post link

SilverWook said:

imperialscum said:

TV’s Frink said:

stealthboy said:

I’m praying for no prequel references. That’s all. I honestly don’t care about anything else.

I think I’m going to judge the film on how good it is, rather than if there’s a random comment about Geonosis.

This. TFA had no PT references and it sucked. On the other hand, R1 had PT references and it was good.

After Finn’s defection, one of the New Order guys was touting how clone troops would be better.

There are a few minor references which are negligible compared to references in R1. The main point was that the film can still suck (e.g. TFA) regardless of how many PT references it has.

真実

Author
Time
Post link

imperialscum said:

SilverWook said:

imperialscum said:

TV’s Frink said:

stealthboy said:

I’m praying for no prequel references. That’s all. I honestly don’t care about anything else.

I think I’m going to judge the film on how good it is, rather than if there’s a random comment about Geonosis.

This. TFA had no PT references and it sucked. On the other hand, R1 had PT references and it was good.

After Finn’s defection, one of the New Order guys was touting how clone troops would be better.

There are a few minor references which are negligible compared to references in R1.

I count two in each film, and at least half of those barely count as references.

TFA:
• “…balance in the force”
• “…clone army”

R1
• Castle Vader happens to probably be on Mustafar
• Bail Organa exists

Both movies’ PT references are very minor.

.

Author
Time
Post link

suspiciouscoffee said:

imperialscum said:

SilverWook said:

imperialscum said:

TV’s Frink said:

stealthboy said:

I’m praying for no prequel references. That’s all. I honestly don’t care about anything else.

I think I’m going to judge the film on how good it is, rather than if there’s a random comment about Geonosis.

This. TFA had no PT references and it sucked. On the other hand, R1 had PT references and it was good.

After Finn’s defection, one of the New Order guys was touting how clone troops would be better.

There are a few minor references which are negligible compared to references in R1.

I count two in each film, and at least half of those barely count as references.

TFA:
• “…balance in the force”
• “…clone army”

R1
• Castle Vader happens to probably be on Mustafar

It was confirmed to be.

• Bail Organa exists

Both movies’ PT references are very minor.

Saw Gerrera isn’t from the prequels, but he’s a prequel-era character.

The flashback scene with Coruscant.

The actress for Mon Mothma.

Turbo Tank.

Author
Time
Post link

suspiciouscoffee said:

imperialscum said:

SilverWook said:

imperialscum said:

TV’s Frink said:

stealthboy said:

I’m praying for no prequel references. That’s all. I honestly don’t care about anything else.

I think I’m going to judge the film on how good it is, rather than if there’s a random comment about Geonosis.

This. TFA had no PT references and it sucked. On the other hand, R1 had PT references and it was good.

After Finn’s defection, one of the New Order guys was touting how clone troops would be better.

There are a few minor references which are negligible compared to references in R1.

I count two in each film, and at least half of those barely count as references.

TFA:
• “…balance in the force”
• “…clone army”

R1
• Castle Vader happens to probably be on Mustafar
• Bail Organa exists

Both movies’ PT references are very minor.

Bail existed in the OT, he was just never named on screen. (I knew his name as a kid thanks to the novelization and the Marvel comic.) The important fact is Jimmy Smits reprised the role.

Where were you in '77?