And the score most suspect is Rotten Tomatoes. Not only is it so far off, but we know that there was a concerted effort to bring down the score with a lot of bad reviews.
NeverarGreat is bringing up some great points. I think the very fact that so many people (at least that I have talked to) thought that Rose crashing into Finn made no sense proves this. Because they felt (as well as I) that the movie set them up for Finn making a successful sacrifice.
That’s just how they interpreted the scene, as well as how I did. Doesn’t make it more right than an alternate interpretation, but that is kind of how movies work. They are meant to provoke different opinions from people and readings of the same material.
The Last Jedi in my opinion, for that scene, presented it in a manner that set us up to be angry and puzzled with Rose’s decision. Just my reading of the scene.
I think most disagreements over TLJ originate from people presenting their interpretations of certain scenes as the only valid—and therefore obvious—interpretations, with any interpretations running counter to theirs being completely wrongheaded.
I’m not trying to say every scene has only one proper interpretation, but rather that your preconceptions of how the story should go color how you interpret a scene. Knowing this is Star Wars and the heroes don’t die, Finn’s life is never at risk and there is not chance of him destroying the weapon because he has to live for the next film. That is a Star Wars Trope.
Someone seems to be conveniently forgetting The Phantom Menace.
Who dies in that one? The only main character to die in their own trilogy was Padme. Each trilogy has a trio of characters with some side characters. Obi-wan, Anakin, and Padme in the PT. Luke, Leia, and Han in the OT, Finn, Rey, and Poe in the ST. The Jedi mentor has died in each trilogy (Qui-gon, Obi-wan, Luke). Other characters die (Darth Maul, Mace and most of the Jedi, Jango Fett, most of the fighter pilots in ANH, Boba Fett, Jabba). But many others live. But the main trio will live to the end of the trilogy. And R2 and 3PO are around to the very end. People die when it is important to the story that they die.
Sure we don’t think Finn will die (though I thought we were judging the movie on its own terms, not in terms of the broader Star Wars saga). But is Finn’s plot armor the reason Rose saves him? Besides, you’re conflating the idea of whether he could sacrifice himself to destroy the weapon with whether he will. We know he doesn’t, but this has no bearing on whether or not he could physically have accomplished the task had he not been diverted.
Under that reasoning Vader could never have possibly shot Luke in the Death Star trench because Luke had to survive into the next movie. The fact that he almost certainly won’t does not mean that he was physically unable - quite the opposite in fact.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
NeverarGreat is bringing up some great points. I think the very fact that so many people (at least that I have talked to) thought that Rose crashing into Finn made no sense proves this. Because they felt (as well as I) that the movie set them up for Finn making a successful sacrifice.
That’s just how they interpreted the scene, as well as how I did. Doesn’t make it more right than an alternate interpretation, but that is kind of how movies work. They are meant to provoke different opinions from people and readings of the same material.
The Last Jedi in my opinion, for that scene, presented it in a manner that set us up to be angry and puzzled with Rose’s decision. Just my reading of the scene.
I think most disagreements over TLJ originate from people presenting their interpretations of certain scenes as the only valid—and therefore obvious—interpretations, with any interpretations running counter to theirs being completely wrongheaded.
I’m not trying to say every scene has only one proper interpretation, but rather that your preconceptions of how the story should go color how you interpret a scene. Knowing this is Star Wars and the heroes don’t die, Finn’s life is never at risk and there is not chance of him destroying the weapon because he has to live for the next film. That is a Star Wars Trope.
Someone seems to be conveniently forgetting The Phantom Menace.
Who dies in that one? The only main character to die in their own trilogy was Padme. Each trilogy has a trio of characters with some side characters. Obi-wan, Anakin, and Padme in the PT. Luke, Leia, and Han in the OT, Finn, Rey, and Poe in the ST. The Jedi mentor has died in each trilogy (Qui-gon, Obi-wan, Luke). Other characters die (Darth Maul, Mace and most of the Jedi, Jango Fett, most of the fighter pilots in ANH, Boba Fett, Jabba). But many others live. But the main trio will live to the end of the trilogy. And R2 and 3PO are around to the very end. People die when it is important to the story that they die.
Sure we don’t think Finn will die (though I thought we were judging the movie on its own terms, not in terms of the broader Star Wars saga). But is Finn’s plot armor the reason Rose saves him? Besides, you’re conflating the idea of whether he could sacrifice himself to destroy the weapon with whether he will. We know he doesn’t, but this has no bearing on whether or not he could physically have accomplished the task had he not been diverted.
I think we are shown that he cannot damage the weapon enough to stop it. His craft is slowing down, it is crumpling. If the cockpit canopy goes, Finn is dead. If it gets the engine, he is stopped in his tracks. I think we are shown in many many small ways that his sacrifice would be in vain so we are supposed to be glad Rose saved him from dying without purpose. And when Rose’s craft hits Finn’s, we see how flimsy they are. Not enough mass or structure to do any damage. A fully functioning speeder might have been able to do some damage at full speed if the weapon was not active, but with it active, it has slowed down Finn’s speeder, it is crumbling it, pieces are coming off, and Finn has no chance. When I first watched that scene I saw the weapons crumple and I knew it was hopeless and I routed for him to get out of there. So when Rose made him by crashing into him, it made sense. I really don’t know how you could see it any other way. But this is Star Wars, not Game of Thrones. In GoT I would have expected him to die, but in Star Wars I don’t. So both in terms of the movie on its own and as a Star Wars film, I didn’t think Finn had any chance or would die.
NeverarGreat is bringing up some great points. I think the very fact that so many people (at least that I have talked to) thought that Rose crashing into Finn made no sense proves this. Because they felt (as well as I) that the movie set them up for Finn making a successful sacrifice.
That’s just how they interpreted the scene, as well as how I did. Doesn’t make it more right than an alternate interpretation, but that is kind of how movies work. They are meant to provoke different opinions from people and readings of the same material.
The Last Jedi in my opinion, for that scene, presented it in a manner that set us up to be angry and puzzled with Rose’s decision. Just my reading of the scene.
I think most disagreements over TLJ originate from people presenting their interpretations of certain scenes as the only valid—and therefore obvious—interpretations, with any interpretations running counter to theirs being completely wrongheaded.
I’m not trying to say every scene has only one proper interpretation, but rather that your preconceptions of how the story should go color how you interpret a scene. Knowing this is Star Wars and the heroes don’t die, Finn’s life is never at risk and there is not chance of him destroying the weapon because he has to live for the next film. That is a Star Wars Trope. So watching that scene and expecting to see Finn die is not a reasonable expectation of the scene. The purpose of that scene was to show that during the course of this film, Finn went from trying to save Rey to trying to save the Resistance. He has gone from a runaway Stormtrooper to a full on Rebel. That was his character arc. Rose helped him on the arc and then rescued him when the arc was complete. The details in the movie back this up. A speeder needs speed to do damage. One of the things to notice is that his speeder is moving slower in the growing force of the beam. Finn is on a pointless suicide mission because he wants to save the day. When you look at all the things in the movie that indicate it is pointless, Rose saving him becomes very natural. It isn’t the only interpretation, but it is the one that fits what we see, his story arc, and what is normal for Star Wars.
Others have already explained why the opposite interpretation is also valid, so I won’t rehash that. If it were as clear as you suggest, viewers would be more uniform in their interpretation.
As far as Star Wars tropes and “what is normal for Star Wars”, the director doesn’t get to subvert expectations in one scene and then fall back on tropes in the next. In New Star Wars, vessels can hyperjump into other vessels to destroy them and characters can develop Force sensitivity into Yoda powers within weeks. Why should I expect anything I’ve seen before to hold up in this new universe?
These two complaints are ridiculous. First, a vessel hyperjumping into another vessel (or planet) was established in ANH. “That will end your trip real quick”.
Using a lightspeed jump as a weapon forces all kinds of questions about why it wasn’t done sooner and how such a weapon could have transformed previous battles we’ve seen play out using conventional Star Wars weaponry. Apparently now anybody can find a junker with a functional jump drive, put a droid in the cockpit, and destroy entire fleets. There are good reasons for writers to avoid doing stuff like this, like consistency within the universe. This is one of those tropes we could rely upon previously, but not anymore.
Second, Rey’s force powers were developed in TFA. Every single one she picked up after “seeing” Kylo Ren do it. She really didn’t pick up anything new in TLJ. So neither complaint is accurate for TLJ.
Rey’s Force powers were never “developed”. They just emerged. And unless I’m mistaken, she wasn’t lifting multiple massive boulders in TFA. Rey is a Jedi Master in all but title—mind tricks, saber fighting, telekinesis, etc. I was under the impression developing these powers required guidance and meditation, but apparently it’s as simple as seeing someone else do it, mimicking them, and achieving instant success.
Anakin required training. Luke required training. Kylo required training. Rey lifted boulders because anything you can do, she can do better.
MTFBWY…A
NeverarGreat is bringing up some great points. I think the very fact that so many people (at least that I have talked to) thought that Rose crashing into Finn made no sense proves this. Because they felt (as well as I) that the movie set them up for Finn making a successful sacrifice.
That’s just how they interpreted the scene, as well as how I did. Doesn’t make it more right than an alternate interpretation, but that is kind of how movies work. They are meant to provoke different opinions from people and readings of the same material.
The Last Jedi in my opinion, for that scene, presented it in a manner that set us up to be angry and puzzled with Rose’s decision. Just my reading of the scene.
I think most disagreements over TLJ originate from people presenting their interpretations of certain scenes as the only valid—and therefore obvious—interpretations, with any interpretations running counter to theirs being completely wrongheaded.
I’m not trying to say every scene has only one proper interpretation, but rather that your preconceptions of how the story should go color how you interpret a scene. Knowing this is Star Wars and the heroes don’t die, Finn’s life is never at risk and there is not chance of him destroying the weapon because he has to live for the next film. That is a Star Wars Trope. So watching that scene and expecting to see Finn die is not a reasonable expectation of the scene. The purpose of that scene was to show that during the course of this film, Finn went from trying to save Rey to trying to save the Resistance. He has gone from a runaway Stormtrooper to a full on Rebel. That was his character arc. Rose helped him on the arc and then rescued him when the arc was complete. The details in the movie back this up. A speeder needs speed to do damage. One of the things to notice is that his speeder is moving slower in the growing force of the beam. Finn is on a pointless suicide mission because he wants to save the day. When you look at all the things in the movie that indicate it is pointless, Rose saving him becomes very natural. It isn’t the only interpretation, but it is the one that fits what we see, his story arc, and what is normal for Star Wars.
Others have already explained why the opposite interpretation is also valid, so I won’t rehash that. If it were as clear as you suggest, viewers would be more uniform in their interpretation.
As far as Star Wars tropes and “what is normal for Star Wars”, the director doesn’t get to subvert expectations in one scene and then fall back on tropes in the next. In New Star Wars, vessels can hyperjump into other vessels to destroy them and characters can develop Force sensitivity into Yoda powers within weeks. Why should I expect anything I’ve seen before to hold up in this new universe?
These two complaints are ridiculous. First, a vessel hyperjumping into another vessel (or planet) was established in ANH. “That will end your trip real quick”.
Using a lightspeed jump as a weapon forces all kinds of questions about why it wasn’t done sooner and how such a weapon could have transformed previous battles we’ve seen play out using conventional Star Wars weaponry. Apparently now anybody can find a junker with a functional jump drive, put a droid in the cockpit, and destroy entire fleets. There are good reasons for writers to avoid doing stuff like this, like consistency within the universe. This is one of those tropes we could rely upon previously, but not anymore.
Second, Rey’s force powers were developed in TFA. Every single one she picked up after “seeing” Kylo Ren do it. She really didn’t pick up anything new in TLJ. So neither complaint is accurate for TLJ.
Rey’s Force powers were never “developed”. They just emerged. And unless I’m mistaken, she wasn’t lifting multiple massive boulders in TFA. Rey is a Jedi Master in all but title—mind tricks, saber fighting, telekinesis, etc. I was under the impression developing these powers required guidance and meditation, but apparently it’s as simple as seeing someone else do it, mimicking them, and achieving instant success.
Anakin required training. Luke required training. Kylo required training. Rey lifted boulders because anything you can do, she can do better.
It is laughable to think Rey a Jedi master in all but title. She does almost none of those things with the finesse that you would expect of a master, and it is hard to picture her mentoring another at this point.
She is a natural with the force, not a master.
NeverarGreat is bringing up some great points. I think the very fact that so many people (at least that I have talked to) thought that Rose crashing into Finn made no sense proves this. Because they felt (as well as I) that the movie set them up for Finn making a successful sacrifice.
That’s just how they interpreted the scene, as well as how I did. Doesn’t make it more right than an alternate interpretation, but that is kind of how movies work. They are meant to provoke different opinions from people and readings of the same material.
The Last Jedi in my opinion, for that scene, presented it in a manner that set us up to be angry and puzzled with Rose’s decision. Just my reading of the scene.
I think most disagreements over TLJ originate from people presenting their interpretations of certain scenes as the only valid—and therefore obvious—interpretations, with any interpretations running counter to theirs being completely wrongheaded.
I’m not trying to say every scene has only one proper interpretation, but rather that your preconceptions of how the story should go color how you interpret a scene. Knowing this is Star Wars and the heroes don’t die, Finn’s life is never at risk and there is not chance of him destroying the weapon because he has to live for the next film. That is a Star Wars Trope. So watching that scene and expecting to see Finn die is not a reasonable expectation of the scene. The purpose of that scene was to show that during the course of this film, Finn went from trying to save Rey to trying to save the Resistance. He has gone from a runaway Stormtrooper to a full on Rebel. That was his character arc. Rose helped him on the arc and then rescued him when the arc was complete. The details in the movie back this up. A speeder needs speed to do damage. One of the things to notice is that his speeder is moving slower in the growing force of the beam. Finn is on a pointless suicide mission because he wants to save the day. When you look at all the things in the movie that indicate it is pointless, Rose saving him becomes very natural. It isn’t the only interpretation, but it is the one that fits what we see, his story arc, and what is normal for Star Wars.
Others have already explained why the opposite interpretation is also valid, so I won’t rehash that. If it were as clear as you suggest, viewers would be more uniform in their interpretation.
As far as Star Wars tropes and “what is normal for Star Wars”, the director doesn’t get to subvert expectations in one scene and then fall back on tropes in the next. In New Star Wars, vessels can hyperjump into other vessels to destroy them and characters can develop Force sensitivity into Yoda powers within weeks. Why should I expect anything I’ve seen before to hold up in this new universe?
These two complaints are ridiculous. First, a vessel hyperjumping into another vessel (or planet) was established in ANH. “That will end your trip real quick”.
Using a lightspeed jump as a weapon forces all kinds of questions about why it wasn’t done sooner and how such a weapon could have transformed previous battles we’ve seen play out using conventional Star Wars weaponry. Apparently now anybody can find a junker with a functional jump drive, put a droid in the cockpit, and destroy entire fleets. There are good reasons for writers to avoid doing stuff like this, like consistency within the universe. This is one of those tropes we could rely upon previously, but not anymore.
Second, Rey’s force powers were developed in TFA. Every single one she picked up after “seeing” Kylo Ren do it. She really didn’t pick up anything new in TLJ. So neither complaint is accurate for TLJ.
Rey’s Force powers were never “developed”. They just emerged. And unless I’m mistaken, she wasn’t lifting multiple massive boulders in TFA. Rey is a Jedi Master in all but title—mind tricks, saber fighting, telekinesis, etc. I was under the impression developing these powers required guidance and meditation, but apparently it’s as simple as seeing someone else do it, mimicking them, and achieving instant success.
Anakin required training. Luke required training. Kylo required training. Rey lifted boulders because anything you can do, she can do better.
It is laughable to think Rey a Jedi master in all but title. She does almost none of those things with the finesse that you would expect of a master, and it is hard to picture her mentoring another at this point.
She is a natural with the force, not a master.
Eh, give her another couple weeks. She’ll get there. Probably just needs to watch a few YouTube videos.
MTFBWY…A
NeverarGreat is bringing up some great points. I think the very fact that so many people (at least that I have talked to) thought that Rose crashing into Finn made no sense proves this. Because they felt (as well as I) that the movie set them up for Finn making a successful sacrifice.
That’s just how they interpreted the scene, as well as how I did. Doesn’t make it more right than an alternate interpretation, but that is kind of how movies work. They are meant to provoke different opinions from people and readings of the same material.
The Last Jedi in my opinion, for that scene, presented it in a manner that set us up to be angry and puzzled with Rose’s decision. Just my reading of the scene.
I think most disagreements over TLJ originate from people presenting their interpretations of certain scenes as the only valid—and therefore obvious—interpretations, with any interpretations running counter to theirs being completely wrongheaded.
I’m not trying to say every scene has only one proper interpretation, but rather that your preconceptions of how the story should go color how you interpret a scene. Knowing this is Star Wars and the heroes don’t die, Finn’s life is never at risk and there is not chance of him destroying the weapon because he has to live for the next film. That is a Star Wars Trope. So watching that scene and expecting to see Finn die is not a reasonable expectation of the scene. The purpose of that scene was to show that during the course of this film, Finn went from trying to save Rey to trying to save the Resistance. He has gone from a runaway Stormtrooper to a full on Rebel. That was his character arc. Rose helped him on the arc and then rescued him when the arc was complete. The details in the movie back this up. A speeder needs speed to do damage. One of the things to notice is that his speeder is moving slower in the growing force of the beam. Finn is on a pointless suicide mission because he wants to save the day. When you look at all the things in the movie that indicate it is pointless, Rose saving him becomes very natural. It isn’t the only interpretation, but it is the one that fits what we see, his story arc, and what is normal for Star Wars.
Others have already explained why the opposite interpretation is also valid, so I won’t rehash that. If it were as clear as you suggest, viewers would be more uniform in their interpretation.
As far as Star Wars tropes and “what is normal for Star Wars”, the director doesn’t get to subvert expectations in one scene and then fall back on tropes in the next. In New Star Wars, vessels can hyperjump into other vessels to destroy them and characters can develop Force sensitivity into Yoda powers within weeks. Why should I expect anything I’ve seen before to hold up in this new universe?
These two complaints are ridiculous. First, a vessel hyperjumping into another vessel (or planet) was established in ANH. “That will end your trip real quick”.
Using a lightspeed jump as a weapon forces all kinds of questions about why it wasn’t done sooner and how such a weapon could have transformed previous battles we’ve seen play out using conventional Star Wars weaponry. Apparently now anybody can find a junker with a functional jump drive, put a droid in the cockpit, and destroy entire fleets. There are good reasons for writers to avoid doing stuff like this, like consistency within the universe. This is one of those tropes we could rely upon previously, but not anymore.
Second, Rey’s force powers were developed in TFA. Every single one she picked up after “seeing” Kylo Ren do it. She really didn’t pick up anything new in TLJ. So neither complaint is accurate for TLJ.
Rey’s Force powers were never “developed”. They just emerged. And unless I’m mistaken, she wasn’t lifting multiple massive boulders in TFA. Rey is a Jedi Master in all but title—mind tricks, saber fighting, telekinesis, etc. I was under the impression developing these powers required guidance and meditation, but apparently it’s as simple as seeing someone else do it, mimicking them, and achieving instant success.
Anakin required training. Luke required training. Kylo required training. Rey lifted boulders because anything you can do, she can do better.
It is laughable to think Rey a Jedi master in all but title. She does almost none of those things with the finesse that you would expect of a master, and it is hard to picture her mentoring another at this point.
She is a natural with the force, not a master.
Eh, give her another couple weeks. She’ll get there. Probably just needs to watch a few YouTube videos.
Come on Jay, this is Frink-level counter-arguing right there.
NeverarGreat is bringing up some great points. I think the very fact that so many people (at least that I have talked to) thought that Rose crashing into Finn made no sense proves this. Because they felt (as well as I) that the movie set them up for Finn making a successful sacrifice.
That’s just how they interpreted the scene, as well as how I did. Doesn’t make it more right than an alternate interpretation, but that is kind of how movies work. They are meant to provoke different opinions from people and readings of the same material.
The Last Jedi in my opinion, for that scene, presented it in a manner that set us up to be angry and puzzled with Rose’s decision. Just my reading of the scene.
I think most disagreements over TLJ originate from people presenting their interpretations of certain scenes as the only valid—and therefore obvious—interpretations, with any interpretations running counter to theirs being completely wrongheaded.
I’m not trying to say every scene has only one proper interpretation, but rather that your preconceptions of how the story should go color how you interpret a scene. Knowing this is Star Wars and the heroes don’t die, Finn’s life is never at risk and there is not chance of him destroying the weapon because he has to live for the next film. That is a Star Wars Trope. So watching that scene and expecting to see Finn die is not a reasonable expectation of the scene. The purpose of that scene was to show that during the course of this film, Finn went from trying to save Rey to trying to save the Resistance. He has gone from a runaway Stormtrooper to a full on Rebel. That was his character arc. Rose helped him on the arc and then rescued him when the arc was complete. The details in the movie back this up. A speeder needs speed to do damage. One of the things to notice is that his speeder is moving slower in the growing force of the beam. Finn is on a pointless suicide mission because he wants to save the day. When you look at all the things in the movie that indicate it is pointless, Rose saving him becomes very natural. It isn’t the only interpretation, but it is the one that fits what we see, his story arc, and what is normal for Star Wars.
Others have already explained why the opposite interpretation is also valid, so I won’t rehash that. If it were as clear as you suggest, viewers would be more uniform in their interpretation.
As far as Star Wars tropes and “what is normal for Star Wars”, the director doesn’t get to subvert expectations in one scene and then fall back on tropes in the next. In New Star Wars, vessels can hyperjump into other vessels to destroy them and characters can develop Force sensitivity into Yoda powers within weeks. Why should I expect anything I’ve seen before to hold up in this new universe?
These two complaints are ridiculous. First, a vessel hyperjumping into another vessel (or planet) was established in ANH. “That will end your trip real quick”.
Using a lightspeed jump as a weapon forces all kinds of questions about why it wasn’t done sooner and how such a weapon could have transformed previous battles we’ve seen play out using conventional Star Wars weaponry. Apparently now anybody can find a junker with a functional jump drive, put a droid in the cockpit, and destroy entire fleets. There are good reasons for writers to avoid doing stuff like this, like consistency within the universe. This is one of those tropes we could rely upon previously, but not anymore.
Second, Rey’s force powers were developed in TFA. Every single one she picked up after “seeing” Kylo Ren do it. She really didn’t pick up anything new in TLJ. So neither complaint is accurate for TLJ.
Rey’s Force powers were never “developed”. They just emerged. And unless I’m mistaken, she wasn’t lifting multiple massive boulders in TFA. Rey is a Jedi Master in all but title—mind tricks, saber fighting, telekinesis, etc. I was under the impression developing these powers required guidance and meditation, but apparently it’s as simple as seeing someone else do it, mimicking them, and achieving instant success.
Anakin required training. Luke required training. Kylo required training. Rey lifted boulders because anything you can do, she can do better.
It is laughable to think Rey a Jedi master in all but title. She does almost none of those things with the finesse that you would expect of a master, and it is hard to picture her mentoring another at this point.
She is a natural with the force, not a master.
Eh, give her another couple weeks. She’ll get there. Probably just needs to watch a few YouTube videos.
I mean, I am fully in agreement with you that she has natural force talent that we haven’t ever seen manifest like this before. And I do agree her caracter didn’t have the best arc in TLJ compared to some of the others.
But I don’t agree with your barely contained distain for her character.
NeverarGreat is bringing up some great points. I think the very fact that so many people (at least that I have talked to) thought that Rose crashing into Finn made no sense proves this. Because they felt (as well as I) that the movie set them up for Finn making a successful sacrifice.
That’s just how they interpreted the scene, as well as how I did. Doesn’t make it more right than an alternate interpretation, but that is kind of how movies work. They are meant to provoke different opinions from people and readings of the same material.
The Last Jedi in my opinion, for that scene, presented it in a manner that set us up to be angry and puzzled with Rose’s decision. Just my reading of the scene.
I think most disagreements over TLJ originate from people presenting their interpretations of certain scenes as the only valid—and therefore obvious—interpretations, with any interpretations running counter to theirs being completely wrongheaded.
I’m not trying to say every scene has only one proper interpretation, but rather that your preconceptions of how the story should go color how you interpret a scene. Knowing this is Star Wars and the heroes don’t die, Finn’s life is never at risk and there is not chance of him destroying the weapon because he has to live for the next film. That is a Star Wars Trope. So watching that scene and expecting to see Finn die is not a reasonable expectation of the scene. The purpose of that scene was to show that during the course of this film, Finn went from trying to save Rey to trying to save the Resistance. He has gone from a runaway Stormtrooper to a full on Rebel. That was his character arc. Rose helped him on the arc and then rescued him when the arc was complete. The details in the movie back this up. A speeder needs speed to do damage. One of the things to notice is that his speeder is moving slower in the growing force of the beam. Finn is on a pointless suicide mission because he wants to save the day. When you look at all the things in the movie that indicate it is pointless, Rose saving him becomes very natural. It isn’t the only interpretation, but it is the one that fits what we see, his story arc, and what is normal for Star Wars.
Others have already explained why the opposite interpretation is also valid, so I won’t rehash that. If it were as clear as you suggest, viewers would be more uniform in their interpretation.
As far as Star Wars tropes and “what is normal for Star Wars”, the director doesn’t get to subvert expectations in one scene and then fall back on tropes in the next. In New Star Wars, vessels can hyperjump into other vessels to destroy them and characters can develop Force sensitivity into Yoda powers within weeks. Why should I expect anything I’ve seen before to hold up in this new universe?
These two complaints are ridiculous. First, a vessel hyperjumping into another vessel (or planet) was established in ANH. “That will end your trip real quick”.
Using a lightspeed jump as a weapon forces all kinds of questions about why it wasn’t done sooner and how such a weapon could have transformed previous battles we’ve seen play out using conventional Star Wars weaponry. Apparently now anybody can find a junker with a functional jump drive, put a droid in the cockpit, and destroy entire fleets. There are good reasons for writers to avoid doing stuff like this, like consistency within the universe. This is one of those tropes we could rely upon previously, but not anymore.
Second, Rey’s force powers were developed in TFA. Every single one she picked up after “seeing” Kylo Ren do it. She really didn’t pick up anything new in TLJ. So neither complaint is accurate for TLJ.
Rey’s Force powers were never “developed”. They just emerged. And unless I’m mistaken, she wasn’t lifting multiple massive boulders in TFA. Rey is a Jedi Master in all but title—mind tricks, saber fighting, telekinesis, etc. I was under the impression developing these powers required guidance and meditation, but apparently it’s as simple as seeing someone else do it, mimicking them, and achieving instant success.
Anakin required training. Luke required training. Kylo required training. Rey lifted boulders because anything you can do, she can do better.
It is laughable to think Rey a Jedi master in all but title. She does almost none of those things with the finesse that you would expect of a master, and it is hard to picture her mentoring another at this point.
She is a natural with the force, not a master.
Eh, give her another couple weeks. She’ll get there. Probably just needs to watch a few YouTube videos.
I mean, I am fully in agreement with you that she has natural force talent that we haven’t ever seen manifest like this before. And I do agree her caracter didn’t have the best arc in TLJ compared to some of the others.
But I don’t agree with your barely contained distain for her character.
I’m not trying to contain it at all. I think she’s a terrible character and the least inspiring Jedi hopeful I’ve seen. It’s a shame because I enjoyed her humble beginnings in TFA (the scene where she caught a glimpse of her future in the old woman was really well done I thought), but nothing about her journey since leaving Jakku has held my interest. She’s mostly there to give Luke and Kylo someone to talk to.
MTFBWY…A
This could all be fixed if it’s revealed she had a bit of training as a toddler by some forgotten survivor of the Jedi purge. 😉
Where were you in '77?
This could all be fixed if it’s revealed she had a bit of training as a toddler by some forgotten survivor of the Jedi purge. 😉
I suspect there’s something waiting for us in IX to explain it, but who knows. Either way, taking three films to explain the protagonist’s origins have left her with a fairly shallow arc in each film. I blame Abrams’s penchant for mystery boxes and cliffhangers and inability to tell a complete story from start to finish.
MTFBWY…A
This could all be fixed if it’s revealed she had a bit of training as a toddler by some forgotten survivor of the Jedi purge. 😉
I’d find that neither satisfying or necessary.
Yeah, that would be like revealing two already established seemingly unrelated characters are actually brother and sister! Who pulls that out in the third film and expects to get away with it? 😛
Where were you in '77?
This could all be fixed if it’s revealed she had a bit of training as a toddler by some forgotten survivor of the Jedi purge. 😉
I’d find that neither satisfying or necessary.
More satisfying than Kylo telling Rey that her parents were nobodies who basically sold her off for beer and smokes?
Where were you in '77?
Yeah, that would be like revealing two already established seemingly unrelated characters are actually brother and sister! Who pulls that out in the third film and expects to get away with it? 😛
Leia being Luke’s sister wasn’t necessary to complete his arc and it was a weird path to take for sure, especially given their relationship in ESB.
Imagine Kylo and Rey being made siblings in IX. Nothing overtly sexual has happened between them, but they’ve shared moments that might be kind of creepy if you were to look back on them through that lens.
I still think the biggest mistake Lucasfilm made was knowing this would be a trilogy and not penning story treatments for all three films from the start. Instead of being a thoughtful and satisfying conclusion, IX might end up being hazmat-level cleanup.
MTFBWY…A
This could all be fixed if it’s revealed she had a bit of training as a toddler by some forgotten survivor of the Jedi purge. 😉
I’d find that neither satisfying or necessary.
More satisfying than Kylo telling Rey that her parents were nobodies who basically sold her off for beer and smokes?
I tend to find satisfaction in revelations that make sense for the character’s story as has been portrayed.
Yeah, that would be like revealing two already established seemingly unrelated characters are actually brother and sister! Who pulls that out in the third film and expects to get away with it? 😛
Hopefully JJ is smart enough to follow through on what he set up in TFA (and Rian expanded on) and doesn’t feel pressure from fans to shoehorn in some random bullshit “explanation” that won’t stack up against the rest of the story being told.
Yeah, that would be like revealing two already established seemingly unrelated characters are actually brother and sister! Who pulls that out in the third film and expects to get away with it? 😛
Hopefully JJ is smart enough to follow through on what he set up in TFA (and Rian expanded on) and doesn’t feel pressure from fans to shoehorn in some random bullshit “explanation” that won’t stack up against the rest of the story being told.
That’s the conundrum here though isn’t it. To a lot of fans Rey’s history with the Force already doesn’t stack up with the rest of the story being told, namely the first six films. The Force semi-randomly bestowing Force powers on anyone considered “worthy”, whatever that may mean, replaces the genetic lotery introduced by Lucas with a cosmic one, the net effect actually being worse overall imo, because aside from the fact, that you still have to be lucky enough to be born with the potential apparently, you now also just get the powers that go with that potential without earning them, or without going through what was once the inevitable temptation of the dark side. The latter is sadly reinforced by the way Ben Solo is presented in this trilogy thusfar, reducing him to little more than just a bad seed, a foil for Rey’s apparent innate goodness. Some may argue we didn’t know much about Vader’s motivations for falling to the dark side, but I would counter that with the observation, that in many ways Luke’s journey delibirately mirrors his father’s from TESB onwards, highlighting the similarity in their characters to reinforce the idea, that Luke runs the risk of following in his father’s footsteps. This thematic connection between the main protagonist, and antagonist enhances both their characters unlike the somewhat contrived idea of “darkness rises, and light to meet it”, which turns Rey into a slave of destiny, a sock puppet of the light side of the Force.
Maybe the Dark Side hasn’t figured out how to tempt Rey yet.
Where were you in '77?
Maybe the Dark Side hasn’t figured out how to tempt Rey yet.
The dark side tried with a muscular torso in TLJ 😉.
Jealousy is a far darker emotion.
Where were you in '77?
Maybe the Dark Side hasn’t figured out how to tempt Rey yet.
I never really got a romantic vibe from Rey/Finn - they mostly seem like people who became friends by going through similar trials.
Poe/Finn on the other hand…
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
I don’t see any conumdum here. I don’t accept the theory that Palpatine created Anakin, the idea that the force created Anakin in response to Palpatine makes a lot more sense. You could say the same thing about Rey, created by the force in response to Kylo/Snoke. the movie basically tells us this.
Yeah, that would be like revealing two already established seemingly unrelated characters are actually brother and sister! Who pulls that out in the third film and expects to get away with it? 😛
Hopefully JJ is smart enough to follow through on what he set up in TFA (and Rian expanded on) and doesn’t feel pressure from fans to shoehorn in some random bullshit “explanation” that won’t stack up against the rest of the story being told.
That’s the conundrum here though isn’t it. To a lot of fans Rey’s history with the Force already doesn’t stack up with the rest of the story being told, namely the first six films. The Force semi-randomly bestowing Force powers on anyone considered “worthy”, whatever that may mean, replaces the genetic lotery introduced by Lucas with a cosmic one, the net effect actually being worse overall imo, because aside from the fact, that you still have to be lucky enough to be born with the potential apparently, you now also just get the powers that go with that potential without earning them, or without going through what was once the inevitable temptation of the dark side. The latter is sadly reinforced by the way Ben Solo is presented in this trilogy thusfar, reducing him to little more than just a bad seed, a foil for Rey’s apparent innate goodness. Some may argue we didn’t know much about Vader’s motivations for falling to the dark side, but I would counter that with the observation, that in many ways Luke’s journey delibirately mirrors his father’s from TESB onwards, highlighting the similarity in their characters to reinforce the idea, that Luke runs the risk of following in his father’s footsteps. This thematic connection between the main protagonist, and antagonist enhances both their characters unlike the somewhat contrived idea of “darkness rises, and light to meet it”, which turns Rey into a slave of destiny, a sock puppet of the light side of the Force.
One could say that Rey is the anti-Luke: Incorruptible whereas Luke was tempted by the Dark Side, constantly looking back as Luke perpetually looks forward, preternaturally able in all ways where Luke failed again and again, arriving mature whereas Luke begins very much as a child, coming from nothing whereas Luke comes from the strongest Skywalker blood.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
It’s weird to say Rey’s story is about her being a slave of destiny when it’s almost explicitly the opposite.