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Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 174

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nightstalkerpoet said:

I'm... less thrilled than the rest of you I guess. It made me worry that this will be a rehash of the PT in the Opposite direction. The PT was "look how big and intense and amazing we can make everything with CG". I'm a little worried the ST is going to turn out to be "look how big and intense and epic we can make everything look with as many practical effects as possible, then touch it up with CG to prove it can work to combine the two".

The OT was based on the premise of "I want to tell a story, how do we make these relevant character-developing events appear on the screen in a believable way".

 You ever look in the mirror and wonder if it's us? Impossible standards we put on these films this day and age. And being so dogmatic about things we  never be pleased unless we get to make the films ourselves. We must realize everything isn't "all about us."

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unamochilla2 said:

If the rumors are true, Solo dies.

Was there anything to substantiate those rumors though?  I always thought that was just over-speculation by super fans, based on Harrison Ford wanting to be killed off back during ESB/RoTJ, and his distaste for the series towards the end of the OT's production.

I think everybody involved in this production wants to see the original characters reunited at some point (hopefully many points) throughout this new trilogy.  It really doesn't seem like it is going to happen in this movie, although I admit that we have seen so little it is hard to tell.  But I don't see Han being killed off before having a chance to reunite with his old friend Luke.

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The shot of Rey lowering herself into the Star Destroyer hanger reminded me a lot of this...

 

“First feel fear, then get angry. Then go with your life into the fight.” - Bill Mollison

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Humby said:

unamochilla2 said:

If the rumors are true, Solo dies.

Was there anything to substantiate those rumors though?  I always thought that was just over-speculation by super fans, based on Harrison Ford wanting to be killed off back during ESB/RoTJ, and his distaste for the series towards the end of the OT's production.

I think everybody involved in this production wants to see the original characters reunited at some point (hopefully many points) throughout this new trilogy.  It really doesn't seem like it is going to happen in this movie, although I admit that we have seen so little it is hard to tell.  But I don't see Han being killed off before having a chance to reunite with his old friend Luke.

 This is exactly why I'm hoping against hope Han doesn't go out in this one. If he never has another scene with Luke i'll be really upset. I believe the only actual evidence for the rumor were some call sheets that made it look like Harrison Ford wasn't in the last part of the movie. I've got to hope that J.J. and Larry are trickier than that, though, because Han dying is one of the first places everyone's minds went before those call sheets even surfaced. I think it's possible this is a case of everyone seeing what they expect to see.

Here's a thought. If Rey needs to be told by Han that all the stories are true, that seems to rule out the possibility that she knew Luke before he went off the grid. I've seen a lot of speculation that she was training with him at some point between ROTJ and TFA, but if she doesn't know for sure that the Jedi are real, I'd say it might be time to retire that particular theory.

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The trailer looked terrible. Doesn't even look like a Star Wars movie. Looks like some random blockbuster film with explosions and lens flare, with STAR WARS plastered all over it to sell to audiences.

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joefavs said:

Humby said:

unamochilla2 said:

If the rumors are true, Solo dies.

Was there anything to substantiate those rumors though?  I always thought that was just over-speculation by super fans, based on Harrison Ford wanting to be killed off back during ESB/RoTJ, and his distaste for the series towards the end of the OT's production.

I think everybody involved in this production wants to see the original characters reunited at some point (hopefully many points) throughout this new trilogy.  It really doesn't seem like it is going to happen in this movie, although I admit that we have seen so little it is hard to tell.  But I don't see Han being killed off before having a chance to reunite with his old friend Luke.

 This is exactly why I'm hoping against hope Han doesn't go out in this one. If he never has another scene with Luke i'll be really upset. I believe the only actual evidence for the rumor were some call sheets that made it look like Harrison Ford wasn't in the last part of the movie. I've got to hope that J.J. and Larry are trickier than that, though, because Han dying is one of the first places everyone's minds went before those call sheets even surfaced. I think it's possible this is a case of everyone seeing what they expect to see.

Here's a thought. If Rey needs to be told by Han that all the stories are true, that seems to rule out the possibility that she knew Luke before he went off the grid. I've seen a lot of speculation that she was training with him at some point between ROTJ and TFA, but if she doesn't know for sure that the Jedi are real, I'd say it might be time to retire that particular theory.

 We see Han and Leia embracing.  I think he may not be in the final act of the movie, he may stay behind with her, and let the younger crew take the Falcon and carry out the rest of their mission (along with Chewie, after all, it would just feel right for Chewie to stay as the sidekick for this younger generation).

So Chewie, Rey, and Finn go off and do their thing.  And that might be when Finn fights Kylo, and Chewie and Rey find him injured, or worse.

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 (Edited)

Well, that was definitely a trailer made in the 2010's.

I'm still cautiously optimistic though, just because the trailer doesn't have much plot in it doesn't mean the movie won't.
This trailer also seems to have a heavy emphasis on the CGI dogfights, but then again we already know that there's going to be a lot of cool practical effects in it based on the B-roll footage, so I'm not to worried on that part either.

(It was after all a Monday Night Football trailer, so it was clearly intended for a more general audience and not the fans. That's what the B-roll was for.)

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Does anyone have the 1080p .MOV available to share? I can't get JDownloader 2 to grab the damned thing.

It’s really sad when the “creative minds” behind something we hold dear are also guilty of its destruction.

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The ticket scalping has already begun. I wonder if this is a first for a movie?

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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 (Edited)

I'm actually kind of surprised to see several Knights of ren in the trailer. When exactly will these guys show up in the story?
Not that I'm complaining though, because this is a pretty cool shot.

I also noticed this trench in the ground on what I assume is Starkiller base. I'm not sure what it is but it reminds me of the Death Star trench in ANH.

I'm also guessing that this is Maz Kanata's castle?


I'm not going to clutter this thread any more, so I'll just post the links to these last three images:

(Where the heck is this supposed to be? You can clearly see some building or something down at the right of the screen. Or maybe it's a spaceship?)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20535561/SW%20VII%20red%20space.jpg


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20535561/SW%20VII%20incoming%20X-Wings.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20535561/SW%20VII%20Kylo%20vs%20Finn.jpg

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 (Edited)

Alderaan said:

The trailer looked terrible. Doesn't even look like a Star Wars movie. Looks like some random blockbuster film with explosions and lens flare, with STAR WARS plastered all over it to sell to audiences.

 This was may impression, that it didn't have a certain "look" that a Star Wars film should have.  It looked like it was shot with very nice HiDef cameras and a super clean look that you would see in a Fast and Furious film.  

The work by ILM of the action sequences looked about right but I just can't get excited about this film.  The costume design work is really uninspired and the characters just seem bland.  JJ Abrams is using the same approach he used with Star Trek.  I loved his Trek reboots but Star Wars requires an entirely different more atmospheric approach and that just didn't happen with TFA.  He's also reusing a ton of OT ships and design work.  It's fan service but the fun of a new Star Wars film is all the cool new designs like the speeder bikes in ROTJ.  JJ is recycling the OT too much and it will win over the causal fans but after awhile it will just end up in a forgettable movie.

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I hate to admit it, but something about the newest trailer has left a bit of an odd aftertaste. The camera movements during the special effects shots are too flashy and overdone, which makes it look fake. The color scheme may also have a big part to do with it. Who knows, both might just take some getting used to.

A trend that I've noticed in the three previews of this film is that it's taking itself too seriously. Cryptic dialogue, an unrelenting dark/sad tone, and a refusal to say what the film is about, other than "it's about Star Wars." Where's the fun banter? The simple, swashbuckling adventure style? 

Still, I'm hoping for the best. I've put a lot of my faith into this movie. Whenever something bad has happened to me this year, I've simply reminded myself that this is coming out. My girlfriend cheated on me? Star Wars is coming. My dog died? Star Wars is coming. I got fired? Star Wars is coming. You get the idea. What ever will I do if this movie disappoints me? I might have to begin to care about something besides a movie! ;) 

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Ziggy Stardust said:

I hate to admit it, but something about the newest trailer has left a bit of an odd aftertaste. The camera movements during the special effects shots are too flashy and overdone, which makes it look fake. 

Well, the camera movments in the original films were pretty "flashy" and one of the original "selling points" was how the cameras often followed the spaceships throughout battle.
But as long as they never go THIS far with it, I'm satisfied at least.

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I understand what you mean, it's 2015 after all, and it's unrealistic for me to expect this to have 70's camerawork. 

Still, couldn't they........TRY?!?!?!?!

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Ziggy Stardust said:

I understand what you mean, it's 2015 after all, and it's unrealistic for me to expect this to have 70's camerawork. 

Still, couldn't they........TRY?!?!?!?!

Well, we'll just have to wait for December to see. This is a trailer shown during Monday Night Football after all, so of course it's going to sell action over story. 

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Didn't we go through all of this when the last trailer came out? ;)

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:

Didn't we go through all of this when the last trailer came out? ;)

Oh yes, and I can guarantee it will happen again when the movie comes out.

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Oh, the trailer...

Things I liked - the camera work. The sets. The costumes. The music.

Things I hated - the CGI ships. I don't know why but I think CG looks worse and worse in each movie (not just SW). The overall "feel" of the trailer - it "felt" like a random action movie.

The rest - I don't care about right now.

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 (Edited)

I know I'm repeating myself, but this trailer was not meant for us.

It was made for these guys;


(Probably a different game, but I don't know squat about American football and it illustrates my point well enough.)

The B-roll video was made for us, the Disney and Comic-con panels was made for us. This trailer was made to hype the general public, not the fans. Hence we got a very typical modern day action hype-trailer.

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That... didn't feel like Star Wars, actually.

Ol’ George has the GOUT, I see.

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Darth Hade said:

Somebody claiming to work for ESPN says that they've seen the trailer.

Here's the description for anyone interested.

Anonymous 10/14/15(Wed)18:42:53 No.61770388

Perfect timing, as I have actually seen Monday night's trailer. I work at ESPN. Expect leaks very soon as it's going around. I leaked the original trailer description to Making Star Wars, so expect to see this same description on his site within a few hours. I've only seen it once. Began with a voice over talking about Vader and Palpatine. Don't remember the exact dialogue but pretty sure it's Kylo talking about finishing what they started. Talks about unison, order, ending the "chaotic void" they left. Pretty straightforward. Starfield for the entire voice over, about ten seconds? Then, the basic "This December" "from the writer of ESB" (Lawrence Kasdan) title cards Finn and Poe in a small room, arguing over who is going to fly a ship. Finn is helmet-less, unlocking Poe's handcuffs. Frantic tone, but cut with scenes of Kylo and the stromtroopers at night, using flamethrowers. Leia and a group of Rebels around a hologram of a planet. Basic military jargon, she mentions "she has experience with this sort of thing." Admiral Ackbar is present. The blue droid from the toy line is in the background. Shot of C-3PO and R2-D2.

Finn and Rey getting shot at by stormtroopers, run up the ramp of the Millennium Falcon. A few shots of Captain Phasma, General Hux, Kylo Ren, and other no name Imperials looking at holograms. Captain Phasma talks, saying she'll "find and kill him." Someone responds, which narrates the next shot. I think he says something about making a big deal out of one man, or whatever. Clearly, they are talking about Finn going AWOL. Next is supposed to be some sort of surprise reveal, as the camera slowly pans back as the Millennium Falcon powers up. Single shot, from them running up the ramp to the Falcon taking off. Maybe thirty seconds total. Really cool. Lots of explosions and pot shots at the Falcon. More shots of the Falcon in the desert, Finn on the guns, Rey in the chair. "Funny" shot of BB-8 rolling up and down the hallways as the Falcon flies around. Extended shots of the Super Star Destroyer chase from the second teaser. Rey, Finn, BB-8 and Han in a hangar type area. Comedic type dialogue, back and forth between all the characters. Broken up by Chewie's roar, and some blaster fire. Everyone immediately splits off and takes cover. Supposed to be comical. Argument continues as they fire on the guys shooting at them. Don't remember anything that was said I think this is when there was another title card, or it might have been before they met Han but it said "comes the sequel to the original Star Wars trilogy"

Really nice shots of TIE fighters above a jungle, firing into the woods. Probably the same scene as the X-Wings above the lake in the teasers. It looks like the same weather. Captain Phasma and Kylo ren walking out of a first Order shuttle. Ren blocks a laser from hitting Phasma. Quick shots of Phasma pushing past Stormtroopers taking cover behind trees. Her gun is automatic, she fires it indiscriminately into a group. Does not take cover as they fire back. Shots of Rey and BB-8, similar to the instagram preview watching the battle. Run in the woods. Snow scenes, a new snow speeder, walker, TIEs, patrolling a large building in the snow. Starkiller Base? General Hux voiceover about ending the wait. Strormtroopers running down a hallway and exiting out to a snowfield. Shot of the black X-Wing flying through space. TIEs and X-Wings dog fight. This is that frantic part of the trailer when things are just thrown at the screen. Definitely remember seeing Leia again, the droids, more of Phasma, more of Ren in the woods, flametroopers, etc. Lots of shots in this part. Trailer ends with Ren and Finn in the woods, red lightsaber on. Ren does a fancy move swinging the saber back and forth, reminding me immediately of the scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark with the swordsman, but in a good way if you catch my meaning. Shot of Finn responding by simply turning his lightsaber on. Title cards, new logos, etc. The last shot is an X-Wing flying through an exploding TIE. No Luke anywhere.

So that's a NOPE then!!

Just to throw this out there - Leia and Han embrace in the trailer, perhaps Leia gets the "I have a bad feeling about this line".  Han is doing his "It'll be ok, trust me" shtick.  Cue Han not making it into Episode VIII and his announcement is a smoke screen.

I hope not, but Ford did want to die in Jedi, right? so maybe the draw back was he got his wish?

Save London’s Curzon Soho Cinema

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Ziggy Stardust said:

Still, I'm hoping for the best. I've put a lot of my faith into this movie. Whenever something bad has happened to me this year, I've simply reminded myself that this is coming out. My girlfriend cheated on me? Star Wars is coming. My dog died? Star Wars is coming. I got fired? Star Wars is coming. You get the idea. What ever will I do if this movie disappoints me? I might have to begin to care about something besides a movie! ;) 

 

Know how you feel, man. 2015 is probably the most horrible year I've had and yet, I kept thinking at least it would end well. A decent (if not good, even!) Star Wars film is coming! Yes, totally a drowning man holding onto a straw.

The trailer, in a most odd and unpleasant way, reminds me of I felt back in 2005 when then RotS trailer came out. It has that same very polished, very shiny, clean artificial look, slightly reminiscent of the OT, yet different; frantic, fast-paced and heavily recut action shots interspersed with what appear to be long and dull exposition sections. The camera work actually looks great but it doesn't feel like the Original Trilogy. Not even the Prequels. Only RotS had a lot of these moving, panning (CGI) shots. In the rare instances where it wasn't just A camera/B camera sofa dialogues, that is.

I also fear that battles will be of the typical Prequel fare. Dumb, explosive, fast, pointless. Just cram as many things as you can. Star Wars intentionally felt almost like a documentary. Battles were exciting and engaging but they also felt methodical, more involved in the story. They actually served a purpose within the storyline. They had dialogue, pacing, sections of their own and unfolded almost like they could have been (great) stand-alone stories. TESB was the same, and even RotJ had great battles scenes. Cut to the Prequels and you have CGI armies or navies mashing at each other, without any reason either story-wise or even in-universe. No objectives, no battle story, no progression, no dialogue. At least TMP battles had some of these! ... 

It feels like TFA is going the latter way. Try to fit as many short, explosive scenes as possible. Three battles during a single movie? It will be RotS' Kashyyk all over again.

I dearly hope that I am wrong.... but I suspect that I am not.

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nightstalkerpoet said:

I'm... less thrilled than the rest of you I guess. It made me worry that this will be a rehash of the PT in the Opposite direction. The PT was "look how big and intense and amazing we can make everything with CG". I'm a little worried the ST is going to turn out to be "look how big and intense and epic we can make everything look with as many practical effects as possible, then touch it up with CG to prove it can work to combine the two".

The OT was based on the premise of "I want to tell a story, how do we make these relevant character-developing events appear on the screen in a believable way".

 It's obvious from a trailer that won't be the case this time, right?

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Let me preface this by saying,

I was there in 1977. So that speaks to my age.

I'm a prequel sympathizer. I enjoy them all, but at my current age I also have some minor qualms with all 6 of the movies.

So now to the new trailer..

IT SUCKED! Too much rehash from the teasers and not enough of what made the previous 6 trailers great. I get that this isn't the film, but the trailer should give us some idea what the movie is about. I got none of that from this trailer. It's an extended teaser as far as I'm concerned. There needs to be more dialogue for one, or at least a voice over narrative to take us through the general points of the film.

The film may or may not suck, but the trailer did not serve it's purpose as far as I'm concerned.

This is the first time as a Star Wars fan I've been underwhelmed by a Star Wars trailer. And hopefully, the last.