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Episode 3 was disappointing on many levels... — Page 3

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I'll bet you'll agree that the Obi-wan/Anakin duel had 10 times the amount of emotion as both of the Dooku/Obi-wan/Anakin duels combined.

I was pleasantly pleased with it, though perhaps that's because it resonated with me, being that it's the duel I've been waiting for since the OT.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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I'll agree with you on most points, Shimmy. 4 out of 5 stars... yes. Best of the PT... yes. Space battle cool... yes. Better than ROTJ... yes. Cool that they follow some ideas in the NJO... dunno, have only read one of the NJO books. Better than ANH... no. That's the only one I don't agree on. Otherwise, I enjoyed it immensely and I'm an OT purist. Call me a heretic, I don't care. I can like it and I do.


I agree with Bossk on everything. I actually thought Episode III was better than ROTJ. Of course, it wasn't as good as ANH or Empire... I also enjoyed it much more than I was expecting I would, and I am also an OT purist.
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Originally posted by: Hardcore Legend
As for Ewok over Greivous, come on. Greivous, while disposable, is atleast believable. If you take no umbrage with tiny forrest creatures bringing the Galactic F'NG Empire to it's knees. Something well armed, well funded Rebels couldn't do for 15 years, then I don't want to hear you complain about plot holes or lack of believability again.


It was a not-so-obvious humorous overeaction about the topic.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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well after Palpatine told Anakin that he knew the darkside and that he should join him.... i think anakin knew what he was doing... it was just a matter of saving Padme.... he knew the jedi werent behind it anymore....

and i would take teddy bears over GG anyday....
Ewoks just prove that "even the smallest person can change the course of the future"
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
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Originally posted by: Asha

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I also didn't like the "Anakin, don't do it. I have the high ground!" WTF? Since when were battles determined by who has the high ground?

I had envisioned something cool and witty at the end of that fight ... like Anakin was about to kill Ben and then Kenobi turned Anakin's artificial hand against himself. Not some nonsense about "high ground."

Something that is widely held in sword fighting. See:Errol Flynn movies. The fighter higher on the stairs has the advantage. It's pretty believable that if Obi Wan is set to take Anakin's attack, of which Anakin must extend himself, Obi Wan has the advantage.

I see at as Obi Wan saying, "Anakin, I don't want to kill you, end this without blood shed" To which Anakin's pride causes him to believe he can beat Obi Wan, even if he is at a disadvantage.

And you don't think Obi Wan using Anakin's hand against him wouldn't have been comical and BLASTED APART on this site and every other Star Wars site?

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Also, did it bother anyone else that it apparently took the Empire 20 years to complete the first Death Star, yet it only took two or three years to *almost* complete a second bigger, deadlier Death Star. I hate the fact that they showed the Death Star at the end of Revenge of the Sith.


It takes a car company 5 years to build the first of the model, but only about an hour to build every one after that.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Yeah. With the first Death Star, they were still testing things out, and I'm sure the plans changed alot during the time it took them to build it. Also, the empire had just been made, so he probably didn't have as many people working on the first Death Star as he did on the second one.

The second time around, he would've had more people doing things twice as fast, and they would know exactly what to do without having to worry about it not working.
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Let's also not forget that Palpatine has to build this DS in absolute secrecy, since he is still relying on the Senate to help maintain the peace. After ANH, the secret is out, the Senate has been disbanded, and the Empire is finally in full swing. Palps was able to throw all his resources into the second Death Star (which wasn't completed by ROTJ, I might add. They had only focused on finishing what needed to be finished, to lure the Rebellion into attacking.)

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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i find it funny that although i didnt like this movie i can admit what i did like and what things were done well...

however when we make a comment about how something was done bad in this movie... people are just jumping in with explanations left and right trying to back up what was seen onscreen.... lol

maybe it was just a mistake...???
could that be it?

does everything have to have a explanation?
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
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MeBe, the did show (if i remember correctly) a recording of Anakin saving Palp/Killing Mace in the same 'tape' that had the Jedi Temple stuff which really doesnt make sense, but anyway. But i also think that up to that point, Palpatine didnt really show his evil side while in his office, he only did that while in his 'evil lair'

I too liked the end battle, but i too was also looking forward to that battle ever since the OT.

And the whole thing with the High Ground, Obi-Wan wasnt really any 'higher' than Anakin. He was however in a better position, more stable ground and all that (aka 'The High Ground', or the Upperhand) He knew if Anakin made a move he would be in position to well do what he did. If youve seen Highlander: Final Dimension, its like the scene where Duncan and Conner are fighting (actually twice, one during a flashback with training, the other during their actual fight) where Duncan gets Conner in a Position where he appears to have the upper hand, but Conner is really in control (reverse in the second fight). But during the first fight Conner new that Duncan was helpless and he could take his head at that point.

so yeah, most battles are determined by who has the advantage over the other. It all came down to Obi-Wans experience over Anakins Lack thereof and being driven by emotions.

thats a bit of a groundless nitpick if you ask me.

however, the death star complaint i have to agree with. apparently they ran into some design/construction flaws. maybe the trade federation had an embargo against them . because when they showed it, they had the outer frame already built enough that you could recognize it as the death star. so 20 years from that to it being complete? yeah, i dont buy it either.

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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"does everything have to have a explanation?"

Did you want me to give you an answer to that?

"MeBe, the did show (if i remember correctly) a recording of Anakin saving Palp/Killing Mace in the same 'tape' that had the Jedi Temple stuff"

Did you not know that Anakin was killing Jedi in the Temple? Did you not see dead bodies all over the floor?

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
D

Hey, check your email.

-edit-
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i find it funny that although i didnt like this movie i can admit what i did like and what things were done well...

however when we make a comment about how something was done bad in this movie... people are just jumping in with explanations left and right trying to back up what was seen onscreen.... lol

maybe it was just a mistake...???
could that be it?

does everything have to have a explanation?

No, everything doesn't have an explanation. Even though I loved the film, I'm really upset about Padme dying with the Leia Plothole and all... And I don't like or buy the "Force memories" explanation. It's just, things like "Why did it take them such a long time to complete the first Death Star, but not the second?" actually have a logical reason behind them. I agree that some things don't make sense, and people are just jumping in with explanations... But really, the Death Star thing makes sense.
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Originally posted by: Luke Skywalker
i find it funny that although i didnt like this movie i can admit what i did like and what things were done well...

however when we make a comment about how something was done bad in this movie... people are just jumping in with explanations left and right trying to back up what was seen onscreen.... lol

maybe it was just a mistake...???
could that be it?

does everything have to have a explanation?


No, but if there is a logical explanation, wouldn't it be smart to talk about it on a message board? I mean, we could ignore logical explanations and pile on Lucas, but that doesn't make much sense.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
"MeBe, the did show (if i remember correctly) a recording of Anakin saving Palp/Killing Mace in the same 'tape' that had the Jedi Temple stuff"

Did you not know that Anakin was killing Jedi in the Temple? Did you not see dead bodies all over the floor?


Im well aware of that. However while he did his killing in the Jedi Temple, The Anakin/Palp/Mace confrontation was in Palp's office in the Senate Building. Unless your telling me that Palpatine was hanging out in the Jedi temple when Mace and the other Jedi confronted him to arrest him.

since the tape showed both of these scenes (as far as i recall) then it implies they had videotapes in both locations, unless each Jedi (or maybe Anakin did at the request of hte rest of the council) has a camera that follows them around personally that they are unaware of

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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LOL...check my edit and your own email.

" Unless your telling me that Palpatine was hanging out in the Jedi temple when Mace and the other Jedi confronted him to arrest him."

As opposed to believing that the was a security cam in Palpatine's office?

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Avoiding Luke Skywalker's wrath, could it not be believed that the Jedi would record their interaction with Palpatine when they went to arrest him. Getting the camera in there would be a problem, but then again, they were the keepers of the peace or basically in charge of security, thus would have control of survellience video.

Even if Palpatine was overtly evil, the Jedi would have to watch the tapes in his office at all times to catch anything that might give it away. I just don't see them doing that. Also, I'm sure it wasn't intended but when Palp reveals himself to Anakin, they walk out of the office into the hallway area. Could that be to avoid detection. I'm sure it wasn't intended.

But then again, the video doesn't play exactly the same way the scene does in the movie, does it? I remember seeing it and think, that's not what he said!
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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A 'groundless' nitpick? Then riddle me this: why was Kenobi able to defeat Maul when Maul was standing above a dangling Kenobi? Maul had "the high ground." It didn't hold Ben back, so why would Ben have believed that Anakin wasn't able to pull off his jump?

This concept of "high ground" hasn't been an issue in any previous battle ... it was merely a convenient and highly lame way to end this fight. And yeah ... had Ben exploited a weakness in Vader that was rooted in Anakin's fall to the dark side (re: attacking Dooku in a fit of anger and losing his hand) it would be far more acceptable than nonsense about high ground.

And the attempts at explaining away the construction of the Death star don't work for me AT ALL. Sorry, but it just doesn't add up. Twenty years to construct one Death Star ... and six months to two years to construct a second? Not even Henry Ford could achieve that feat. Lucas was feebly trying to tie-in images from the original film to justify Revenge of the Sith in the face of all logic.

It seems to me that you're choosing to file plot holes YOU don't want to acknowledge as "nitpicks."


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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
LOL...check my edit and your own email.

" Unless your telling me that Palpatine was hanging out in the Jedi temple when Mace and the other Jedi confronted him to arrest him."

As opposed to believing that the was a security cam in Palpatine's office?


Gmail is being annoying and says I can't get into my inbox right now. =/
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"But then again, the video doesn't play exactly the same way the scene does in the movie, doies it? I remember seeing it and think, that's not what he said! "

Not only that, but when we see Palps talking to Anakin in his office, he isn't wearing his hood. The hood is on in the security cam footage. It's a different time and place.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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"Then riddle me this: why was Kenobi able to defeat Maul when Maul was standing above a dangling Kenobi? Maul had "the high ground." It didn't hold Ben back, so why would Ben have believed that Anakin wasn't able to pull of his jump?"

I know you want to believe the scenarios are exactly the same in that regard, but they are not. Both Maul and Anakin failed because they were overly convinced in their own abilities. Their overconfidence was their failing.

"It seems to me that you're choosing to file plot holes YOU don't want to acknowledge as "nitpicks."

I don't even find it all that important, to tell you the truth, although I will say this - the second DS was much bigger and more powerful, so the firt DS wasn't simply "copied".

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: Asha
A 'groundless' nitpick? Then riddle me this: why was Kenobi able to defeat Maul when Maul was standing above a dangling Kenobi? Maul had "the high ground." It didn't hold Ben back, so why would Ben have believed that Anakin wasn't able to pull of his jump?

Because Maul doesn't use the high ground, he toys with Obi Wan, using the sparks from his saber. When Obi Wan leaps, Maul doesn't react, that's why the high ground was of no use to him. Maul had the advantage, he just got bitched anyways.

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And the attempts at explaining away the construction of the Death star don't work for me AT ALL. Sorry, but it just doesn't add up. Twenty years to construct one Death Star ... and six months to two years to construct a second? Not even Henry Ford could achieve that feat. Lucas was feebly trying to tie-in images from the original film to justify Revenge of the Sith in the face of all logic.

It seems to me that you're choosing to file plot holes YOU don't like as "nitpicks."


Twenty years to construct one Death Star is a problem for you? How long has it taken the World to build the ISS which is 1/1000th the size of a fully operational military base with a massive weapon inside? They were kind of designing it on the fly, I'm sure as no one had ever done something like this. Also, it had to be kept hidden from the Rebellion and the Senate, to keep them for suspecting. How long is the gap between AOTC and ROTS? Atleast 9 months, I know that. If that's the case, then it took them just 9 months to get like 5 pieces of a frame up for that final scene.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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"Because Maul doesn't use the high ground, he toys with Obi Wan, using the sparks from his saber. When Obi Wan leaps, Maul doesn't react, that's why the high ground was of no use to him. Maul had the advantage, he just got bitched anyways."

Agreed. Had Maul stayed on his guard, instead of dicking around, he could simply have cut Obi-wan's fingers and finished him off. As it was, he goofed off, and paid dearly, because it gave Obi-wan time to hone in his focus and abilities.

Again, overconfidence...

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: Asha
A 'groundless' nitpick? Then riddle me this: why was Kenobi able to defeat Maul when Maul was standing above a dangling Kenobi? Maul had "the high ground." It didn't hold Ben back, so why would Ben have believed that Anakin wasn't able to pull of his jump?


ive stated that as a problem with TPM in a previous post somewhere. Maul with his skill should have cut Obi-Wan in twine when he was on his way up. It is not however a problem with ROTS because Obi-Wan did what anyone that was skilled would have done when someone rushed at them filled with emotion. I could try to explain TPM by saying that Maul was too busy gloating/taunting Ben to be ready for what happened, where as Obi-Wan was ready for Anakin to attack and prepared to counter. But I've had a problem with that aspect of Mauls death from day 1.

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This concept of "high ground" hasn't been an issue in any previous battle ... it was merely a convenient and highly lame way to end this fight. And yeah ... had Ben exploited a weakness in Vader that was rooted in Anakin's fall to the dark side (re: attacking Dooku in a fit of anger and losing his hand) it would be far more acceptable than nonsense about high ground.


"High Ground" is always an issue in any battle, especially one where the skill level is so close. Ben did exploit a weakness in Vader, his anger/lack of judgement in the attack. Other than that they were pretty evenly matched (thats how the battle was designed) A true master would have played that attack just as Ben did, biding his time, waiting for a mistake to be made, or a slight opening he could take advantage of.

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And the attempts at explaining away the construction of the Death star don't work for me AT ALL. Sorry, but it just doesn't add up. Twenty years to construct one Death Star ... and six months to two years to construct a second? Not even Henry Ford could achieve that feat. Lucas was feebly trying to tie-in images from the original film to justify Revenge of the Sith in the face of all logic.


if your refering to my explanations that were dripping with sarcasm, well i guess you missed the sarcasm. if your refering to the other explanations, while i think that could account for some time, i agree that i dont think it would account for 20 years. Yes lucas forced a lot of tie-ins, but that was done more so in the first 2, I think over all the tie-ins in ROTS flowed much better and were much more natural feeling, minus the few that i have mentioned in other threads.

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It seems to me that you're choosing to file plot holes YOU don't like as "nitpicks."


oh damn, you got me there. I admit, Obi-Wan should not have ultimatly shown more mastery over the Jedi arts to defeat Anakin. Everyone knows that according to the OT Vader told Ben 'When last we met I was but the learner, Now I am the master'. Obviously Anakin should have won the fight on Mustafaar by that statement, or at least shown more mastery of the force. I guess that plot hole was just so big i didnt realize i was standing in it.

-Darth Simon

Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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LOL

You forgot [/sarcasm]

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
LOL

You forgot [/sarcasm]


no i left it out as a deliberate creative decision
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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I wouldn't have a problem with a 20-year Death Star ... had the Empire not nearly completed a bigger, stronger Death Star in the span of six months to two years. The Death Star shouldn't have appeared in this film ... seeing the construction plans in Palpatine's hands would have been more than enough.

OK ... and if over-confidence was the issue, then why didn't ben just yell, "No, Anakin ... you'll never make the jump!" Tossing out some vague new battle strategy involving "high ground" is, at best, another awful choice of explanatory dialogue. At worst, it's a cop-out.