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Dr. M
Dr. M's Reinventing The Wheel Edition (PAL to NTSC+) (Released) — Page 3
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Originally posted by: Doctor M
That's a 7-pass vbr, now how do I make CCE go all the way to 11? Pointless IMO, after 2 passes it's a case of dimishing returns. For a laserdisc source, I don't think there's any advantage in doing more than 3 passes. Even for a DVD source, 5-6 passes is considered about the maximum.
Originally posted by: Doctor M
Let me know what you think, and be honest, this IS for posterity. To bright, to yellow, too much border, etc.
Really kicking myself about the colour saturation. It looks so much better with just a little increase (I have to turn the colour up on my TV every time I watch my discs!)That's a 7-pass vbr, now how do I make CCE go all the way to 11? Pointless IMO, after 2 passes it's a case of dimishing returns. For a laserdisc source, I don't think there's any advantage in doing more than 3 passes. Even for a DVD source, 5-6 passes is considered about the maximum.
Originally posted by: Doctor M
Let me know what you think, and be honest, this IS for posterity. To bright, to yellow, too much border, etc.
I think you're wrong to do what you've done with the borders. If it was me, I'd just shrink everything vertically by 16.67% to give 480 lines (with about 360 for the actual video picture).
And just an idea for you: for the halos, you might want to try the FixVHSOversharp Avisynth filter. It looks like it's the sort of thing that the video needs, but I think it's designed for VCD, it might not be developed enough to work with full-resolution DVD video.
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Originally posted by: Doctor M
Does anyone have the chapter cuts for this as well (French and DC)?
M, do you have Gonzo's ESB by chance ? Here's DC side-flips, along with Gonzo's chapter numbers:Does anyone have the chapter cuts for this as well (French and DC)?
Side 1:
16. The Rebels prepare to leave
Side 2:
17. A call to arms
34. A hyperdrive solution
Side 3:
35. A kiss is just a kiss
45. Admiral Piett deploys the fleet
Side 4:
46. The Falcon floats away
59. Luke shadows the prisoners
Side 5:
60. A meeting in the carbon-freeze chamber
However, in practice you must take into account the “fuckwit factor”. Just talk to Darth Mallwalker…
-Moth3r
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Moth3r: Yeah, I'm agnozing over the borders, and if so how much. I'm curious if anyone has burned these and tried it on a TV. I'm not sure my TV just has a large overscan region or not.
(Edit: I took a look at the filter, I'm not sure I like how it softens the picture too. The other problem is I'm using VirtualDubMod and frameserving to CCE and they don't seem to have a VD version of the filter.)
Darth: great, now I if someone has the French PAL side changes...
Dr. M
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Not too different from Moth3r's since I didn't touch the red intensity.
Dr. M
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On the other side we also have a desire to sit, watch and enjoy the movies we are attempting to preserve. It is our love for them that has us here to start with after all.
Now I know I am leaning quite far into the latter category with my project, and perhaps I wasn't clear from the start. (Though calling it "Reinventing The Wheel" should tip you off that I am aware of the real necessity of my project.) It's also understood that from a preservation stand-point re-encoding a DVD isn't your finest method.
Think of it as a homage to Moth3r's beautiful transfer, which is perhaps the best of all current and complete sets that have been made.
I started this because I want to be able to watch and enjoy his fine work from my sofa, away from my PC. I only have a NTSC DVD player, and I saw a few tweaks that might elevated the movies further. That's why I set about producing these discs for myself. Public release will only be a side-effect since just about anyone could do this (or their interpretation) on their own.
Am I preserving the OT for future generations? Not well I'm not. That's a conscious decision. Heck, my current set of laserdiscs are of the "Incredible Shrinking Aspect-Ratio" set, not exactly one worth remembering.
If your goal is pure preservation, you could grab Cowclop's latest masterpiece, get the original Moth3r set if PAL is your bent, donate to the X0 project, or buy some hardware and start your own archive edition.
I am perfectly aware that what I have done will be obsolete (maybe even before I finish), but that isn't the point. (Look for a possible v2.0 after Citizen has his say). I've never made a secret of my general dislike for the quality of almost all current transfers for one reason or another. What I want is the best home viewing experience I can muster with what is available and not starting from scratch. The PAL resolution of Moth3r's was a great starting point.
And that's why the black bars, that's why the color and brightness tweaks. Are they correct decisions? Maybe not. That's why I'm so willing to take input from people that aren't partially color blind (as I am) or probably just plain know more than I do. Is it pleasing to watch from my sofa? Oh, yes it is.
So I agree 100% that I could have done more to preserve the series, but there are better people than I already doing it. If that's what you want than these are not the discs you're looking for.
BUT deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall.
Dr. M
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As far as the borders go, I guess I will ask the group here since most people seem to disapprove.
I will be definitely be encoding my own copy with the borders. If the demand is overwhelming (for those that will actually WANT a copy), I can make the released version without them.
Ok so poll time. For clarity sake refer to them as TV friendly (with picture framing) or Monitor friendly (no additional borders).
Dr. M
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Originally posted by: eros
Pretty pointless project really this.
You're a pretty pointless member. I don't think I've ever seen you post anything constructive.Pretty pointless project really this.
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Actually, I'll try putting your video onto a RW to see what it looks like on a TV.
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I burned your test file to a DVD and watched it on my TV last night. I haven't seen a lot of the transfers here, but yours looked pretty good. The overscan on my TV completely ate all of the border on the right side. Only a small part of the black border remained on the left. Apparently, my TV's image is not centered. I have a (crappy?) 29" Zenith from '97.
If you crop the image to eliminate the borders, won't you in effect be zooming in on the image? Won't that make the limited resolution of the laserdisc more apparent?
Also in your test file, I noticed for 3 or 4 seconds at the beginning there was a lot of signal noise in the starfield. After it went away, the starfield looked very clear though. Don't know if anyone else experienced that.
I say, go with the TV friendly borders.
You know of the rebellion against the Empire?
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Originally posted by: Moth3r
Originally posted by: eros
Pretty pointless project really this.
You're a pretty pointless member. I don't think I've ever seen you post anything constructive. Pretty pointless project really this.
That's rich coming from a fuckin' newbie bastard!! I was posting constructive stuff on this forum before your mum bought you your first computer ARSEHOLE!!
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My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]
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As far as the zoom(?) I am of course trying to counter the cropping already done to the movie. But yeah, the down side is a reduced number of actual lines used for the picture. But although it's much less lines than Moth3r's disc, since it is anamorphic it still contains more lines than the original laserdisc source (I think).
Does anyone know the number of actual lines used in a PAL 2.35:1 laserdisc? I think I'm going to go do some calculations on that this afternoon I don't want less...
As far as the break up, I didn't notice, but that clip is several pieces edited together, so there might be some problems from that. I'll check that too.
Dr. M
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Originally posted by: Doctor M
Does anyone know the number of actual lines used in a PAL 2.35:1 laserdisc?
324. Does anyone know the number of actual lines used in a PAL 2.35:1 laserdisc?
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Hmm, anyway I am allowing 328 lines for the picture as it is. Now that is somewhat artificial since it has already been enlarged and now I'm reducing it, but whichever number is right (and I'm going to assume it's Moth3r) I'm still slightly larger so there should be minimal if any loss of the original pal resolution when I'm done.
Btw, Moth3r please get back to me on the 8 vs 4 lines thing in PM.
Dr. M
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***Citizen's NTSC DVD/PAL DVD/XviD Info and Feedback Thread***
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I've done a lot of Googling and found a lot of conflicting opinions. Bilnear is frequently said to be best for shrink, but lanczos is accept to produce sharper results. Sight, every time I think I'm nearly done, I find another fine point to hash out first.
Dr. M
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The real answer is try it on your fottage and see - different footage can have its own issues with various resizing methods - the amount of noise in the source picture can really effect things for instance.