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Did Lucas forget that Obi Wan served Bail Organa in the Clone Wars ?

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I don’t think this plot line mentioned in the originals was revisited.

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Check out Season Two: Episode 10 of The Clone Wars. It’s addressed there.

“Heroes come in all sizes, and you don’t have to be a giant hero. You can be a very small hero. It’s just as important to understand that accepting self-responsibility for the things you do, having good manners, caring about other people - these are heroic acts. Everybody has the choice of being a hero or not being a hero every day of their lives.” - George Lucas

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Perfectly fine that Stardust cited a CW episode, but that kind of just points out what a problem this was. The movies shouldn’t need a cartoon network show to show what was expected in the backstory of Star Wars. Everyone who’s been in comment sections have insisted Anakin is a more likable character in that series too, but I think he should have been likable in the movies… oh well, I digress. But my point was that the Clone War itself should have happened in the actual movies.

You’ll laugh! You’ll cry! You’ll kiss three bucks goodbye!

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Every hear people tell old war stories? Well, when someone isn’t around to check them, they often embellish and skew things. I wish people would stop taking every word that every characters says as 100% accurate. People don’t talk that way. Memories fail, things get forgotten or mis remembered, and some people just plain make things up. Like Vader betraying and murdering Luke’s father. Whatever Bail told Leia was close enough to the truth, but what she said doesn’t have to be the literal history.

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yotsuya said:

Every hear people tell old war stories? Well, when someone isn’t around to check them, they often embellish and skew things. I wish people would stop taking every word that every characters says as 100% accurate. People don’t talk that way. Memories fail, things get forgotten or mis remembered, and some people just plain make things up. Like Vader betraying and murdering Luke’s father. Whatever Bail told Leia was close enough to the truth, but what she said doesn’t have to be the literal history.

Exactly.

George once described the key differences between the two:

“I didn’t want to do the craziness or, as someone once described it, the ‘effervescent giddiness’, of the first film. I knew the story eventually had to go to a dark place, so I purposely darkened it down. I realised early on that the original trilogy was a plot driven, fable. The new trilogy is a history, a backstory, a personal dossier of all these characters.”

The Prequels are the more exact facts of what happened during the rise of the Empire and Anakin’s fall and the Originals are more relying the history of what happened from different points of view to Luke and everyone else. It will get muddled as twenty years takes place between the two trilogies. Only R2-D2 knows exactly what happened.

“Heroes come in all sizes, and you don’t have to be a giant hero. You can be a very small hero. It’s just as important to understand that accepting self-responsibility for the things you do, having good manners, caring about other people - these are heroic acts. Everybody has the choice of being a hero or not being a hero every day of their lives.” - George Lucas

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WookieeWarrior77 said:

Perfectly fine that Stardust cited a CW episode, but that kind of just points out what a problem this was. The movies shouldn’t need a cartoon network show to show what was expected in the backstory of Star Wars. Everyone who’s been in comment sections have insisted Anakin is a more likable character in that series too, but I think he should have been likable in the movies… oh well, I digress. But my point was that the Clone War itself should have happened in the actual movies.

I agree. It is good that it was featured in Clone Wars, but really should have been addressed in the main films, especially as not everyone watching the films is going to watch a 130 episode animated series after the fact.

Though it is not surprising given some of the disconnects and inconsistencies between the Original Trilogy and the later Prequel Trilogy, despite George Lucas having ample time to iron any such issues out when he was writing the Prequels. Why he chose not to is baffling, and is something that seems to still be unanswered.

The Secret History of Star Wars | Star Wars Visual Comparisons | George Lucas: Star Wars Creator, Unreliable Narrator & Time-Travelling Revisionist

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ken-obi said:

Though it is not surprising given some of the disconnects between the Original Trilogy and the later Prequel Trilogy, despite George Lucas having ample time to iron any such issues out when he was writing the Prequels. Why he chose not to is baffling, and is something that seems to be unanswered.

Yeah, there are so many inconsistencies between the OT and the prequels that could have been ironed out if Lucas bothered to rewatch his own movies before writing the prequel scripts. Here’s just the things I can remember off the top of my head:

  • R2 somehow doesn’t recognize Obi-Wan or Yoda, Obi-Wan and Yoda don’t seem to recognize R2 either
  • Obi-Wan doesn’t remember owning a droid, despite having owned a droid for at least 3 years
  • Obi-Wan makes it sound like Owen and Anakin are actual brothers, and Owen resisted when Anakin started his training, which is just completely wrong
  • The “served my father in the Clone Wars” bit that started this thread (and no, the cartoons don’t count)
  • Obi-Wan says Yoda was the master who instructed him, but Yoda was actually the master who instructed the master who instructed the master who instructed him
  • Luke feels like he’s been to Dagobah before, despite the fact that he never actually went there before
  • Obi-Wan says that he was reckless as an apprentice, despite the prequels portraying him as basically the opposite of reckless
  • Obi-Wan acts like he discovered Anakin’s piloting ability and Force skill, despite Qui-Gon being the one who discovered that (I’m noticing a lot of contradictions disappear if you merge Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon into a single character)
  • Leia says she remembers her real mother, despite the fact that her mother died in childbirth (and no, “it was the Force” isn’t a valid explanation, especially since Luke doesn’t have those memories)
  • Vader says Obi-Wan once thought he could be redeemed, despite Obi-Wan going to Mustafar to kill him (and no, the upcoming Obi-Wan spinoff doesn’t count)

That’s a lot of inconsistencies, and I don’t think “they were just misremembering” really cuts it when the OT’s conception of the prequel events is so wildly different from the actual events.

My preferred Skywalker Saga experience:
I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX

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and Qui Gon was a late addition to The Phantom Menace , a lot of concept paintings by Doug Chiang show that It was just supposed to be Obi Wan by himself . He is even depicted wearing a modified version of Luke’s Jedi tunic , which was what many thought the traditional garb of the Jedi was supposed to be . And 20 years is not that long in the scheme of things …I am 50 years old and remember events from 20 years ago in vivid detail ."a certain point of view " was just something Lucas pulled out of his ass when he backed himself into a corner writing ROTJ , as was Leia being the other/Luke’s sister , as evidenced in the documentary From Star Wars To Jedi The Making Of A Saga .

https://screamsinthevoid.deviantart.com/

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No, he didn’t forget.

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StarkillerAG said:

  • R2 somehow doesn’t recognize Obi-Wan or Yoda, Obi-Wan and Yoda don’t seem to recognize R2 either
  • Obi-Wan doesn’t remember owning a droid, despite having owned a droid for at least 3 years
  • Obi-Wan makes it sound like Owen and Anakin are actual brothers, and Owen resisted when Anakin started his training, which is just completely wrong
  • The “served my father in the Clone Wars” bit that started this thread (and no, the cartoons don’t count)
  • Obi-Wan says Yoda was the master who instructed him, but Yoda was actually the master who instructed the master who instructed the master who instructed him
  • Luke feels like he’s been to Dagobah before, despite the fact that he never actually went there before
  • Obi-Wan says that he was reckless as an apprentice, despite the prequels portraying him as basically the opposite of reckless
  • Obi-Wan acts like he discovered Anakin’s piloting ability and Force skill, despite Qui-Gon being the one who discovered that (I’m noticing a lot of contradictions disappear if you merge Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon into a single character)
  • Leia says she remembers her real mother, despite the fact that her mother died in childbirth (and no, “it was the Force” isn’t a valid explanation, especially since Luke doesn’t have those memories)
  • Vader says Obi-Wan once thought he could be redeemed, despite Obi-Wan going to Mustafar to kill him (and no, the upcoming Obi-Wan spinoff doesn’t count)
  1. Who says he doesn’t? R2 is known to troll and know more than he let’s on. Yoda and Obi-Wan could also just be keeping to themselves how much they know as they did with the truth about Luke’s father.

  2. During the Clone Wars he has a very low opinion of droids and thinks they can be easily replaced.

  3. I don’t know about that as I never got that impression. It seems more like headcanon to me or the Return of the Jedi novelisation saying Owen was Obi-Wan’s brother. The story didn’t get set until Attack of the Clones. Step brother is still family.

  4. George considered The Clone Wars canon. So it certainly counts as an explanation.

  5. The Force works in mysterious ways. “Through the Force, things you will see. Other places. The future, the past. Old friends long gone.” It could just as much be the Force showing Luke that Dagobah plays a role in his destiny. Just as Obi-Wan guiding him there was through the Force.

  6. He has moments of being reckless and cocky. Like when he jumps out of the window when the assassin droid comes to Padme’s apartment. Same with his desire to train Anakin without the approval of the Jedi Council at the will request of Qui-Gon. Plus it could just as well be he was reckless when he was a youngling being taught by Yoda as he mentions being instructed by him. Yoda taught the children before they were assigned masters upon becoming padawan learners.

  7. Obi-Wan was there on Tatooine when Anakin was discovered and from a certain point of view he was with Qui-Gon when Anakin was discovered. Jedi work in teams. A master and apprentice. He saw Anakin’s potential with the Force through his midi-chlorian count. Same with knowing about Anakin’s skills to win the podrace to secure them the parts they needed to leave. Surely he also knows what happened to the Trade Federation command ship too.

  8. George planned to explain Leia’s Force abilities in his Sequel Trilogy. So it’s not so much a contradiction but something that was never addressed by Disney unless it’s in a novel or something. It could just as much be she has memories like Yoda taught in his lesson I mention above in relation to Luke. The same could be said of Leia having visions of Padme. It’s something George would’ve delved into I’m sure as Rick McCallum spoke of it. The Force works differently in every living thing. Everyone has the Force. So how it impacts Leia might be different than Luke.

  9. Obi-Wan was hesitant on going as he wanted to confront Palpatine instead but he respected Yoda’s wishes and seeked out Padme. He fought the whole duel with Anakin/Vader on Mustafar in defence until the very end. He didn’t want to kill Anakin. It’s only when he thought he was far gone that he began to switch to offence.

“Heroes come in all sizes, and you don’t have to be a giant hero. You can be a very small hero. It’s just as important to understand that accepting self-responsibility for the things you do, having good manners, caring about other people - these are heroic acts. Everybody has the choice of being a hero or not being a hero every day of their lives.” - George Lucas

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Lars was Anakin’s brother to brother in law to stepbrother at various times in “canon.”

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I like to think that Luke and Leia both had visions as young kids.

Leia saw her real mother, but they were images of her, and feelings of love.

Luke yearned to see his father and know as much about him as possible. He reached out with his force abilities to seek answers (in his dreams), and Yoda was the only one listening. I think this is why Luke feels like he’s been to Dagobah, because when Yoda was calming Luke down with the force, he could actually see Yoda and his surroundings, just like a dream.

Maybe I’m wrong and this is explained in the Kenobi series, we’ll just have to wait and see.

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Luke has no memory of his real mother, and Leia has no memory of her father.

This could be something Kenobi or Yoda did to ease their pain, or hide it from Vader, the Emperor or the inquisitors.

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Stardust1138 said:

StarkillerAG said:

  • R2 somehow doesn’t recognize Obi-Wan or Yoda, Obi-Wan and Yoda don’t seem to recognize R2 either
  • Obi-Wan doesn’t remember owning a droid, despite having owned a droid for at least 3 years
  • Obi-Wan makes it sound like Owen and Anakin are actual brothers, and Owen resisted when Anakin started his training, which is just completely wrong
  • The “served my father in the Clone Wars” bit that started this thread (and no, the cartoons don’t count)
  • Obi-Wan says Yoda was the master who instructed him, but Yoda was actually the master who instructed the master who instructed the master who instructed him
  • Luke feels like he’s been to Dagobah before, despite the fact that he never actually went there before
  • Obi-Wan says that he was reckless as an apprentice, despite the prequels portraying him as basically the opposite of reckless
  • Obi-Wan acts like he discovered Anakin’s piloting ability and Force skill, despite Qui-Gon being the one who discovered that (I’m noticing a lot of contradictions disappear if you merge Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon into a single character)
  • Leia says she remembers her real mother, despite the fact that her mother died in childbirth (and no, “it was the Force” isn’t a valid explanation, especially since Luke doesn’t have those memories)
  • Vader says Obi-Wan once thought he could be redeemed, despite Obi-Wan going to Mustafar to kill him (and no, the upcoming Obi-Wan spinoff doesn’t count)
  1. Who says he doesn’t? R2 is known to troll and know more than he let’s on. Yoda and Obi-Wan could also just be keeping to themselves how much they know as they did with the truth about Luke’s father.

  2. During the Clone Wars he has a very low opinion of droids and thinks they can be easily replaced.

  3. I don’t know about that as I never got that impression. It seems more like headcanon to me or the Return of the Jedi novelisation saying Owen was Obi-Wan’s brother. The story didn’t get set until Attack of the Clones. Step brother is still family.

  4. George considered The Clone Wars canon. So it certainly counts as an explanation.

  5. The Force works in mysterious ways. “Through the Force, things you will see. Other places. The future, the past. Old friends long gone.” It could just as much be the Force showing Luke that Dagobah plays a role in his destiny. Just as Obi-Wan guiding him there was through the Force.

  6. He has moments of being reckless and cocky. Like when he jumps out of the window when the assassin droid comes to Padme’s apartment. Same with his desire to train Anakin without the approval of the Jedi Council at the will request of Qui-Gon. Plus it could just as well be he was reckless when he was a youngling being taught by Yoda as he mentions being instructed by him. Yoda taught the children before they were assigned masters upon becoming padawan learners.

  7. Obi-Wan was there on Tatooine when Anakin was discovered and from a certain point of view he was with Qui-Gon when Anakin was discovered. Jedi work in teams. A master and apprentice. He saw Anakin’s potential with the Force through his midi-chlorian count. Same with knowing about Anakin’s skills to win the podrace to secure them the parts they needed to leave. Surely he also knows what happened to the Trade Federation command ship too.

  8. George planned to explain Leia’s Force abilities in his Sequel Trilogy. So it’s not so much a contradiction but something that was never addressed by Disney unless it’s in a novel or something. It could just as much be she has memories like Yoda taught in his lesson I mention above in relation to Luke. The same could be said of Leia having visions of Padme. It’s something George would’ve delved into I’m sure as Rick McCallum spoke of it. The Force works differently in every living thing. Everyone has the Force. So how it impacts Leia might be different than Luke.

  9. Obi-Wan was hesitant on going as he wanted to confront Palpatine instead but he respected Yoda’s wishes and seeked out Padme. He fought the whole duel with Anakin/Vader on Mustafar in defence until the very end. He didn’t want to kill Anakin. It’s only when he thought he was far gone that he began to switch to offence.

  1. I guess that is a possible explanation, but I think it would have been a lot cleaner if Lucas just didn’t include R2 or 3PO in the prequels at all. There is zero reason they needed to be there other than nostalgia.

  2. Even if he does have a low opinion of droids, there’s no reason why he shouldn’t remember the fact that he owned one for the entire duration of the Clone Wars, since he was actually on a first-name basis with said droid.

  3. I know Owen wasn’t explicitly confirmed to be Anakin’s actual brother, but even then it was heavily implied that Owen was around when Anakin was taken to be a Jedi: Obi-Wan says that Owen “thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved”, and that isn’t really possible when Owen only meets Anakin 10 years after he became a Jedi.

  4. George may have greenlit the Clone Wars cartoon, but what I mean by “the cartoons don’t count” is that they can’t be used as a way to hide the movies’ flaws. Lucas should have thought of a way to have Obi-Wan serve Bail when he was actually writing the prequels, instead of having Filoni make up a rationalization 5 years later.

  5. This is exactly what I was talking about when I said “it was the Force” isn’t a valid explanation. Way too often, fans use “it was the Force” as a cheap way to cover up plot issues. And no matter what rationalization you use, I still think it would be a lot cleaner if Luke actually was on Dagobah when he was very young.

  6. That moment where Obi-Wan grabs the robot was pretty reckless, but it’s pretty much the only moment where he was actually shown being reckless. I’m pretty sure he actually got the Council’s approval to train Anakin. It really feels like Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were originally supposed to be the same character, but they transferred all the “Obi-Wan” character elements (including the recklessness) onto Qui-Gon, causing Obi-Wan’s character to feel weird.

  7. I guess he was technically there when all that stuff happened, but I guess it just feels weird that neither Obi-Wan nor Yoda ever mentioned Qui-Gon throughout the entire OT. Once again, it really seems like Qui-Gon was a last minute addition to the prequels, and his role was originally going to be filled by Obi-Wan.

  8. Lucas wasn’t even going to make a sequel trilogy until he wrote a preliminary plot treatment for Disney to take inspiration from just before he sold the franchise, so I’m only taking the OT and prequels into account here. And the dialogue in ROTJ clearly indicates that Leia’s memories are supposed to be actual memories: she says that Padme “died when she was very young,” not that she died in childbirth.

  9. He may have been on defense most of the time, but his mission was still to kill him. And even if he secretly was hoping Vader would return to the light, Vader wouldn’t know that since he was so absorbed in his “The Jedi turned against me” mindset at the time, so it’s weird that Vader is the one who says that Obi-Wan thought he could be redeemed.

CarboniteSolo said:

I like to think that Luke and Leia both had visions as young kids.

Leia saw her real mother, but they were images of her, and feelings of love.

Luke yearned to see his father and know as much about him as possible. He reached out with his force abilities to seek answers (in his dreams), and Yoda was the only one listening. I think this is why Luke feels like he’s been to Dagobah, because when Yoda was calming Luke down with the force, he could actually see Yoda and his surroundings, just like a dream.

Maybe I’m wrong and this is explained in the Kenobi series, we’ll just have to wait and see.

Edit:
Luke has no memory of his real mother, and Leia has no memory of her father.

This could be something Kenobi or Yoda did to ease their pain, or hide it from Vader, the Emperor or the inquisitors.

That’s actually a really cool idea. Too bad it wasn’t in the movies.

My preferred Skywalker Saga experience:
I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX

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Bail Organa was a senator. Obi-Wan was a Jedi. The Jedi served the Republic and by extension the senate in the Clone Wars. Certain point of view wins again.

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StarkillerAG said:

  1. I guess that is a possible explanation, but I think it would have been a lot cleaner if Lucas just didn’t include R2 or 3PO in the prequels at all. There is zero reason they needed to be there other than nostalgia.

  2. Even if he does have a low opinion of droids, there’s no reason why he shouldn’t remember the fact that he owned one for the entire duration of the Clone Wars, since he was actually on a first-name basis with said droid.

  3. I know Owen wasn’t explicitly confirmed to be Anakin’s actual brother, but even then it was heavily implied that Owen was around when Anakin was taken to be a Jedi: Obi-Wan says that Owen “thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved”, and that isn’t really possible when Owen only meets Anakin 10 years after he became a Jedi.

  4. George may have greenlit the Clone Wars cartoon, but what I mean by “the cartoons don’t count” is that they can’t be used as a way to hide the movies’ flaws. Lucas should have thought of a way to have Obi-Wan serve Bail when he was actually writing the prequels, instead of having Filoni make up a rationalization 5 years later.

  5. This is exactly what I was talking about when I said “it was the Force” isn’t a valid explanation. Way too often, fans use “it was the Force” as a cheap way to cover up plot issues. And no matter what rationalization you use, I still think it would be a lot cleaner if Luke actually was on Dagobah when he was very young.

  6. That moment where Obi-Wan grabs the robot was pretty reckless, but it’s pretty much the only moment where he was actually shown being reckless. I’m pretty sure he actually got the Council’s approval to train Anakin. It really feels like Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were originally supposed to be the same character, but they transferred all the “Obi-Wan” character elements (including the recklessness) onto Qui-Gon, causing Obi-Wan’s character to feel weird.

  7. I guess he was technically there when all that stuff happened, but I guess it just feels weird that neither Obi-Wan nor Yoda ever mentioned Qui-Gon throughout the entire OT. Once again, it really seems like Qui-Gon was a last minute addition to the prequels, and his role was originally going to be filled by Obi-Wan.

  8. Lucas wasn’t even going to make a sequel trilogy until he wrote a preliminary plot treatment for Disney to take inspiration from just before he sold the franchise, so I’m only taking the OT and prequels into account here. And the dialogue in ROTJ clearly indicates that Leia’s memories are supposed to be actual memories: she says that Padme “died when she was very young,” not that she died in childbirth.

  9. He may have been on defense most of the time, but his mission was still to kill him. And even if he secretly was hoping Vader would return to the light, Vader wouldn’t know that since he was so absorbed in his “The Jedi turned against me” mindset at the time, so it’s weird that Vader is the one who says that Obi-Wan thought he could be redeemed.

  1. The stories are told through the eyes of the droids. It’s like Ancient Greek theatre. R2 is meant to recount the story of the Skywalker family to the Keeper of the Whills. It’s R2’s story in a general sense. He’s meant to relate the story years after the Skywalker saga ends.

  2. True. It could just as much be PTSD. That’s headcanon though but trauma does affect your memory. I’ve experienced it first hand.

  3. I see what you mean on this point. It’s definitely the plot point I find isn’t conveyed as good as it should be in the George Lucas canon of seeing things. For me I see it as Owen Lars remembers hearing the name “Obi-Wan Kenobi” when R2 interrupts Shimi’s funeral then years later he and Obi-Wan have a confrontation and Owen blames him for taking Anakin on the “Idealistic Crusade” which is the Clone War as he’s the only one who he feels he can blame as he thinks Anakin is dead. He doesn’t want Luke to have the lightsaber as he fears a similar fate. Dooku is referred to as a “Political Idealist” and the whole Clone War has roots in different ideology views. That’s how I see it but I do admit I think it can be a bit jarring. However things do happen off screen.

  4. I suppose so but the series is George’s last Star Wars stories. The majority of the content they made for it comes directly from him. So I see it as an extension to the films. Attack of the Clones we see the beginning of the war and Revenge of the Sith we see the end of it. The details of what exactly happened during it are filled in during the series. The Prequels for me show the bigger picture ideas of what happened in stages. Episode I shows Palpatine coming to power and the fragile senate that he exploited. Episode II shows the distortion he’s further creating and the beginning of the proxy war. Episode III is the rise of the Empire. This is juxtaposed with the personal story of Anakin’s rise and fall.

  5. I agree in part absolutely. The Force can’t be used to wave off everything but it is something more spiritual and also entirely unexplainable. In a general sense it’s God. I see it as human’s free will and we think we have control over things but in reality we don’t. In a general sense this is the Whills telling Luke and everyone else their destiny as they have some control over him. Just like reality. This is also subjective I suppose to everyone’s point of view.

  6. The Council did approve but they sensed grave danger in Anakin being trained. They only agreed reluctantly. Obi-Wan would’ve done it either way as he gave Qui-Gon his word. None of them knew what to do with Anakin except for Qui-Gon.

  7. It is unfortunate that Qui-Gon wasn’t mentioned in the Original Trilogy but Luke seemed to be on a need to know basis. So I don’t consider it a bad thing.

  8. Actually he started writing in 2011 before Disney came into the picture and he nearly made Episode VII himself. There’s so much misinformation about this out there that keeping track of what actually was going to happen and what wasn’t is hard to find. Same with what was in George’s treatments before it was unveiled a bit more in detail. I do see what you mean though as it does imply that but it doesn’t bother me too much.

  9. His mission may have been set by Yoda to kill him but he is his own individual at the same time. He has a personal point of view just as Vader could’ve realised as much in the years after that Obi-Wan was only trying to save and protect him upon reflection. Twenty four years is a long time.

“Heroes come in all sizes, and you don’t have to be a giant hero. You can be a very small hero. It’s just as important to understand that accepting self-responsibility for the things you do, having good manners, caring about other people - these are heroic acts. Everybody has the choice of being a hero or not being a hero every day of their lives.” - George Lucas

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Now that you guys are touching upon it, that is one thing that has been bothering me for the past two decades, the characterisation of Obi-Wan Kenobi in the PT.

In TESB, Yoda says he won’t train Luke because he’s too impatient and reckless, at which point Obi-Wan retorts “Was I any different?”. Lucas contradicted this when making the PT, as throughout the PT Obi-Wan is portrayed as a very observant, by-the-book Jedi who never questions the will of the Council, and I suspect that Lucas got the roles mixed up, as Qui-Gon is the one with the rebellious streak Yoda spoke of. When Obi-Wan insisted on training Anakin because of his promise to Qui-Gon, Yoda says he senses Qui-Gon’s defiance in him. Really?

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fmalover said:

Now that you guys are touching upon it, that is one thing that has been bothering me for the past two decades, the characterisation of Obi-Wan Kenobi in the PT.

In TESB, Yoda says he won’t train Luke because he’s too impatient and reckless, at which point Obi-Wan retorts “Was I any different?”. Lucas contradicted this when making the PT, as throughout the PT Obi-Wan is portrayed as a very observant, by-the-book Jedi who never questions the will of the Council, and I suspect that Lucas got the roles mixed up, as Qui-Gon is the one with the rebellious streak Yoda spoke of. When Obi-Wan insisted on training Anakin because of his promise to Qui-Gon, Yoda says he senses Qui-Gon’s defiance in him. Really?

Padawan Obi-wan was a bit reckless. He was listening to Qui-gon. When he started training Anakin that ceased to be the case. And we didn’t see the much younger Obi-wan, the one Yoda trained, so we can’t really say what Obi-wan said to Yoda was not completely true.

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First, Obi-Wan is nearing knighthood when TPM starts, so “was I any different when you taught me” would be referring to when he was much younger. While TPM doesn’t really say one way or the other, it’s reasonable to assume he didn’t start out a calm, reserved, model student – I mean, how many of us do?

Second, Obi-Wan still displays a bit of a reckless streak in the rest of the PT – diving out a window to hitch a ride on an assassin droid, kicking a bounty hunter off a ledge while still wired to him, etc. Maybe that sort of thing was a result of Anakin’s habits rubbing off on him a little, but still.

Co-author of STAR WARS: THE RISE OF SKYWALKER - THE TEAM DALE REWRITE

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I guess i was expecting more swashbuckling action Anakin following Obi Wan on a damn fool idealistic crusade.

Yoda being Obi Wan’s teacher, Leia’s mom dying on Alderaan when Leia was like 5 years old or something. Owen Lars being Obi Wan’s brother.

Luke’s father being a good friend and a great pilot. And i mean in the films not having to go to other media to get that characterization, like the Clone Wars.

Showing the actual clone war on screen, the purge of the Jedi by Vader. All the things hinted at during the filming of the OT.

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JadedSkywalker said:

I guess i was expecting more swashbuckling action Anakin following Obi Wan on a damn fool idealistic crusade.

Yoda being Obi Wan’s teacher, Leia’s mom dying on Alderaan when Leia was like 5 years old or something. Owen Lars being Obi Wan’s brother.

Luke’s father being a good friend and a great pilot. And i mean in the films not having to go to other media to get that characterization, like the Clone Wars.

Showing the actual clone war on screen, the purge of the Jedi by Vader. All the things hinted at during the filming of the OT.

^ yup , and I will add , Anakin telling Obi Wan that he wanted Luke to have his Lightsaber when he was old enough , Anakin falling into a molten pit while dueling Kenobi being an accident, rather than getting his arm and legs chopped off by him in self defense after which he stands there and leaves him burning to death , the Clone Wars being plural and happening on screen and not just the start and the end of them , with the rest being filled in by a cartoon . These were the things that stirred the imaginations of my friends and myself in the 80s while playing out the scenarios with our action figures in the sandbox and talking about them .

https://screamsinthevoid.deviantart.com/

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screams in the void said:

JadedSkywalker said:

I guess i was expecting more swashbuckling action Anakin following Obi Wan on a damn fool idealistic crusade.

Yoda being Obi Wan’s teacher, Leia’s mom dying on Alderaan when Leia was like 5 years old or something. Owen Lars being Obi Wan’s brother.

Luke’s father being a good friend and a great pilot. And i mean in the films not having to go to other media to get that characterization, like the Clone Wars.

Showing the actual clone war on screen, the purge of the Jedi by Vader. All the things hinted at during the filming of the OT.

^ yup , and I will add , Anakin telling Obi Wan that he wanted Luke to have his Lightsaber when he was old enough , Anakin falling into a molten pit while dueling Kenobi being an accident, rather than getting his arm and legs chopped off by him in self defense after which he stands there and leaves him burning to death , the Clone Wars being plural and happening on screen and not just the start and the end of them , with the rest being filled in by a cartoon . These were the things that stirred the imaginations of my friends and myself in the 80s while playing out the scenarios with our action figures in the sandbox and talking about them .

And this is exactly why so many were disappointed with the PT Lucas made. Pre-formed expectations. The only thing I had ever imagined was the faux treatment, Fall of the Republic. Oddly, it has a lot of echoes to both ROTS and TROS (predating both by many years).

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Isn’t it simple? In the prequels, Obi-Wan was a Jedi Knight who served the Republic. Bail Organa was a member of the Galactic Senate. Thus, “You served my father in the Clone Wars”, is a perfectly fine line. What exactly is the debate?

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StarkillerAG said:

  1. I guess that is a possible explanation, but I think it would have been a lot cleaner if Lucas just didn’t include R2 or 3PO in the prequels at all. There is zero reason they needed to be there other than nostalgia.

I agree with this. I like the idea of the story happening from the perspective of the two droids, but in the original trilogy they play a crucial role in the action while in the prequels all they do is hinder it. Their presence always felt very unnecessary to me, and they’re forever being used for goofy humour (such as everything that goes on in the Battle of Geonosis scene) which just never landed for me.

What’s more, their inclusion makes it an even bigger coincidence that they end up with Luke and the OT heroes. Lucas should have created two new droids to fill an R2-3P0-like role and dynamic if that’s what he wanted.

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

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jedi_bendu said:

StarkillerAG said:

  1. I guess that is a possible explanation, but I think it would have been a lot cleaner if Lucas just didn’t include R2 or 3PO in the prequels at all. There is zero reason they needed to be there other than nostalgia.

I agree with this. I like the idea of the story happening from the perspective of the two droids, but in the original trilogy they play a crucial role in the action while in the prequels all they do is hinder it. Their presence always felt very unnecessary to me, and they’re forever being used for goofy humour (such as everything that goes on in the Battle of Geonosis scene) which just never landed for me.

What’s more, their inclusion makes it an even bigger coincidence that they end up with Luke and the OT heroes. Lucas should have created two new droids to fill an R2-3P0-like role and dynamic if that’s what he wanted.

They’re used for goofy humour in the Original Trilogy too. R2-D2’s saw gag, R2-D2 shocking the Ewok, C-3PO setting up the Ewoks to attack the stormtroopers, Salacious Crumb poking out C-3PO’s eye, and even before this with C-3PO’s body gag at the end of The Empire Strikes Back and moments in A New Hope. They’ve always been used for goofiness to defuse the tension of moments. It’s sort of needed for kids in Attack of the Clones especially as Jango getting his head cut off is pretty grim stuff. Same really with the ending of The Empire Strikes Back.

C-3PO during Geonosis and general also has a lot of symbolism with Anakin. At the start Anakin builds C-3PO to help his mom through well intentions. This reflects back onto Anakin as he’s very selfless but there’s also a very independent streak in him at the same time. C-3PO has this too but is more neurotic. Then you get to the Battle of Geonosis both are at a crossroads. C-3PO’s body swap represents Anakin being torn between his desires and his duty. Just as Anakin represents C-3PO’s imbalance and alliances being blurred on a galactic scale. These things are also interchangeable. They eventually go their separate ways but not really as this leads to further symbolic meaning with Luke and friends later on.

There’s no coincidence if you watch the films I-VI as George intended. I don’t mean this to be rude to anyone who prefers watching them IV-VI, I-III as I know these things are subjective but so many of the problems some have with the Prequels I find tend to be from watching them as the second trilogy instead of the first. So many things work better in watching and understanding the story through the gaze of how George intended them to be viewed instead of watching them backwards as so many of the perceived plot holes aren’t actually plot holes. The story is also much more clear and you can see how seeds are being planted to eventually eclipse the entire universe.

“Heroes come in all sizes, and you don’t have to be a giant hero. You can be a very small hero. It’s just as important to understand that accepting self-responsibility for the things you do, having good manners, caring about other people - these are heroic acts. Everybody has the choice of being a hero or not being a hero every day of their lives.” - George Lucas

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Stardust1138 said:

StarkillerAG said:

  • Obi-Wan doesn’t remember owning a droid, despite having owned a droid for at least 3 years
  1. During the Clone Wars he has a very low opinion of droids and thinks they can be easily replaced.

Considering a droid replaceable and never owning a droid are different things

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