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Dealing with People Selling Fan Projects — Page 4

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Hello,

First of all, English is not my native language so please excuse my bad formulations.
I’m quite new here but I love this site and this community, I found some treasures here (and on MySpleen) so I feel concerned about this issue.
If I try to summarize previous posts :

LEGAL MATERS :

  • Selling fan preservations and fan edits constitutes a breach of copyright (and an insult to all the work done here graciously by the fans).
  • Free distribution of video files constitutes a breach of broadcasting rights.
  • Hosting video files and/or torrent files constitutes also a breach of broadcasting rights.
  • Sharing video files and/or torrent files constitutes also a breach of broadcasting rights.
  • Possession of fan preservations and edits is allowed only if we previously paid for the official material (eg Lucasfilm Blu Rays)

USER NEEDS (which explain why some users will pay on eBay) :

  • Finding video files is not so easy.
  • Downloading torrents is not so easy.
  • Making beautiful Blu-Ray boxes is not so easy.

WHAT IS NOT A SOLUTION :

  • Making and hosting an OT torrent tracker (as MySpleen) => legal matters.
  • Giving too much visibility to fan’s works and/or writing to eBay, Disney, LucasFilm or FBI => too risky.
  • Sharing files through Private Messages on this site (not too risky, but it won’t avoid people to pay on eBay)
  • Providing external links and explanation (apparently, it is still too much complicated for some people).

SO WHAT ELSE CAN BE DONE :
Maybe we could develop a specific download software (such as Vuze or eMule or BitTorrent, but limited to Star Wars fan files only) that will :

  • automaticaly find external torrent links to fan preservations and fan edits (on TPB, MySpleen, isohunt…)
  • easily download the files
  • easily convert the files to some well-known formats (DVD, MKV, BR)
  • easily find artwork and PDF, ready-to-print.

In other words, that would be a “Vuze-like” (or µTorrent-like or BitTorrent-like) but already configured to find and download SW fan files only.
This software wouldn’t be illegal (it won’t host illegal files, just make some searchs through trackers-sites and allow download from external websites) and it could be legally downloaded from here.

Is this a good idea ?

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ZigZig said:

LEGAL MATERS :

  • Possession of fan preservations and edits is allowed only if we previously paid for the official material (eg Lucasfilm Blu Rays)

Well, even that is actually not granted, at least in some countries. In France you are allowed make your own copies from the movies/music etc you have on physical supports, but you are not allowed to get these copies from illegal sources, even if you own the physical support. Well, in practice nobody will be sued for that, this is just to mention. And anyway this is a potential concern for the end user, not the ones who are distributing the files.

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ZigZig said:

Hello,

First of all, English is not my native language so please excuse my bad formulations.
I’m quite new here but I love this site and this community, I found some treasures here (and on MySpleen) so I feel concerned about this issue.
If I try to summarize previous posts :

LEGAL MATERS :

  • Selling fan preservations and fan edits constitutes a breach of copyright (and an insult to all the work done here graciously by the fans).
  • Free distribution of video files constitutes a breach of broadcasting rights.
  • Hosting video files and/or torrent files constitutes also a breach of broadcasting rights.
  • Sharing video files and/or torrent files constitutes also a breach of broadcasting rights.
  • Possession of fan preservations and edits is allowed only if we previously paid for the official material (eg Lucasfilm Blu Rays)

USER NEEDS (which explain why some users will pay on eBay) :

  • Finding video files is not so easy.
  • Downloading torrents is not so easy.
  • Making beautiful Blu-Ray boxes is not so easy.

WHAT IS NOT A SOLUTION :

  • Making and hosting an OT torrent tracker (as MySpleen) => legal matters.
  • Giving too much visibility to fan’s works and/or writing to eBay, Disney, LucasFilm or FBI => too risky.
  • Sharing files through Private Messages on this site (not too risky, but it won’t avoid people to pay on eBay)
  • Providing external links and explanation (apparently, it is still too much complicated for some people).

SO WHAT ELSE CAN BE DONE :
Maybe we could develop a specific download software (such as Vuze or eMule or BitTorrent, but limited to Star Wars fan files only) that will :

  • automaticaly find external torrent links to fan preservations and fan edits (on TPB, MySpleen, isohunt…)
  • easily download the files
  • easily convert the files to some well-known formats (DVD, MKV, BR)
  • easily find artwork and PDF, ready-to-print.

In other words, that would be a “Vuze-like” (or µTorrent-like or BitTorrent-like) but already configured to find and download SW fan files only.
This software wouldn’t be illegal (it won’t host illegal files, just make some searchs through trackers-sites and allow download from external websites) and it could be legally downloaded from here.

Is this a good idea ?

Creating a dedicated app is possible, but it would require a lot of people with adequate programming knowledge and networking know-how and be willing to do so for free, I would love to help with that but I have very little programming knowledge but if enough people agree on this it would be a possibility.

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I have programming skills (that’s my job) and I would be happy to contribute, if (and only if) it is a good idea and “oldest respectable members” agree with this idea.

For me, making a torrent client is not as difficult as technicolorize ANH shot by shot 😉

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ZigZig said:

I have programming skills (that’s my job) and I would be happy to contribute, if (and only if) it is a good idea and “oldest respectable members” agree with this idea.

For me, making a torrent client is not as difficult as technicolorize ANH shot by shot 😉

PM Harmy

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Just posted this in Mike O’s thread and thought I’d bring it here for discussion as well:

Valheru_84 said:

Mike O,

Having purchased one of these custom DSE box sets from eBay, do you (or anyone else) know if it gives you any additional options or leverage via eBay to report this as pirated material and get the profiteering piece of shit in proper trouble?

Or does everyone think this would end up putting the spotlight back on us with the material in question being a fan edit that originated from a member here?

.Val

http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Legality-fan-edits-and-more-Legality-fan-edits-and-repercussions/id/54551/page/3#1102614

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I think what pisses me off the most about this is that no only have these people stolen the hard work of others, but they haven’t even bothered to repackage it as their own. So if the hammer comes down, it will be the ones who put in the work who get hit, not the morons who are causing the problems. The only way I know to combat this is to liberally sprinkle the “fan production - not for sale or rent” (or whatever way you like to put it) in ways that would force all but the laziest to repackage it with their own work (covers and menus) to sell ready made discs.

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yotsuya said:

I think what pisses me off the most about this is that no only have these people stolen the hard work of others, but they haven’t even bothered to repackage it as their own. So if the hammer comes down, it will be the ones who put in the work who get hit, not the morons who are causing the problems. The only way I know to combat this is to liberally sprinkle the “fan production - not for sale or rent” (or whatever way you like to put it) in ways that would force all but the laziest to repackage it with their own work (covers and menus) to sell ready made discs.

Very good point. It is lovely to have productions that feel more authentic to us. But there is a reason for the ugly disclaimers.

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yotsuya said:

I think what pisses me off the most about this is that no only have these people stolen the hard work of others, but they haven’t even bothered to repackage it as their own. So if the hammer comes down, it will be the ones who put in the work who get hit, not the morons who are causing the problems. The only way I know to combat this is to liberally sprinkle the “fan production - not for sale or rent” (or whatever way you like to put it) in ways that would force all but the laziest to repackage it with their own work (covers and menus) to sell ready made discs.

Very good point. It is lovely to have productions that feel more authentic to us. But there is a reason for the ugly disclaimers. Excluding them from a production makes it a prime target for these scumbags.

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NeverarGreat said:

While we need to do a better job at directing new members towards important information
Any solution not involving money would be quite a hassle, and the best thing I can think of is a system wherein the party requesting the blu-ray would be required to purchase their own blank blu-ray discs and send them in a package containing their copy of the relevant 2011 Blu-ray discs (as proof of purchase) and enough postage for sending it all back.

I fall into that category. Been a member here for years. I have the files. I do not yet have access to a Blu-ray writer. So, I would be very happy to purchase blank discs with that intention. Having read all the hard work and dedication that went into making these things, I won’t purchase online so some Greedo makes a profit off the work done by members of these forums. Being patient till I get the opportunity to make my own or at least not so as someone else profits from it. Great discussion in this thread.

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I am disappointed to find that despecialized sets are still being offered for sale on eBay. A quick search shows somebody in York (England) and what looks like our old friend in San Diego selling with impunity.

What’s equally tragic and hilarious is that the latter now claims to be donating a portion of all his profits to the ASPCA.

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Anyone else spot this little attempt at a disclaimer on the *** site?

“NOTE: All Despecialized discs are free. You are paying for materials used; as well as the time and effort spent for downloading, burning, and printing”

$60 USD for, “the time and effort spent for downloading, burning, and printing.” Clearly, a very expensive process. 😄

“Logic is the battlefield of adulthood.”

  • Howard Berk
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Mark’s Down On Your Syntax said:

I am disappointed to find that despecialized sets are still being offered for sale on eBay. A quick search shows somebody in York (England) and what looks like our old friend in San Diego selling with impunity.

What’s equally tragic and hilarious is that the latter now claims to be donating a portion of all his profits to the ASPCA.]

It is even more sickening when the seller thanks Harmy and OT members for their tireless work in his/her description. It’s like slapping everyone directly in the face and making a profit off doing so.

“I speak Spanish!”

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Crazy idea, but what if we bought them, complained we were sold a bootleg product and demand refunds? We could keep doing it to these Greedos so long as the money is refunded.

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:

Crazy idea, but what if we bought them, complained we were sold a bootleg product and demand refunds? We could keep doing it to these Greedos so long as the money is refunded.

This is a hilarious idea! I’m kinda for it, haha!

“I speak Spanish!”

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Then, once you have the refund, also report them to the relevant copyright protection agency for selling bootlegged content.

“Logic is the battlefield of adulthood.”

  • Howard Berk
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JayArgonaut said:

Then, once you have the refund, also report them to the relevant copyright protection agency for selling bootlegged content.

And don’t forget to give Harmy’s private address…

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You mean the people selling the discs, of course. Harmy is not selling them, which is the whole point…

“Logic is the battlefield of adulthood.”

  • Howard Berk
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From the point of view of the copyright protection agency, Harmy is maybe the person who committed an intellectual property offense, and in addition he signed his crime (“Harmyvision”).

That said with the utmost respect for Harmy, whom I regard as a hero and not as a criminal. But will the copyright protection agency share my point of view ?

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Ok, I see where you’re coming from. There’s no evidence of him selling or soliciting sales in any form. These individuals on the other hand, are online, collecting money for content that they know was never made commercially available and was never produced with that intent.

“Logic is the battlefield of adulthood.”

  • Howard Berk
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As far as I know, modifying and sharing a work of art without the prior consent of its author constitutes an infringement of intellectual property laws. No matter that you sell it or no: you cannot corrupt a work of art if the author did not agree.
(and I think that George Lucas doesn’t agree with an attempting to restore what he’s trying to delete…).

But I am not a lawyer, and European laws may be different from US laws.