FanFiltration said:
Well, some of us knew it was a lot worse then they have been reporting, but now the cat is out of the bag.
Radioactive Reality (27 July 2013) "Everybody is freaking out about this!"
I'm wondering if the new Godzilla reboot next year will deal with this. I'm thinking "yes."
*sigh* It is bad enough I have to put up with a dog murderer on the Philadelphia Eagles, but now its seems the team also has a racist
Eagles Wide Receiver using the n-word
Riley Cooper apologizes for using the n-word. I think he is only sorry he got caught.
Do we know who he was referring to and why? If it is okay for black people to use the word and he was using it in the same way, why should it be considered worse?
I was thinking about how it is said people are reclaiming a word (like the n-word or "queer") or taking away its power to hurt by using it. Perhaps it is the altered definition of the word (thanks to the adoption of many blacks) that Cooper was using. I hear young black guys using it constantly.
My thought is that nobody should be using it, that the usage of the word by many blacks is simply wallowing in its negativity. Leaving permissible usage only for those who were historical targets of a word is a sort of sociological impediment.
If we are really going to neuter or reclaim the word, whites should be using it, prolifically. We should use it against whites and blacks. We could use it in a friendly or a disparaging manner.
I think Cooper really is only upset because he is white and got caught. I don't have evidence he is a racist, any more than the blacks who use the word. The n-word has taken on a broader meaning and I wouldn't be surprised if that is the sense in which he used it. It's pathetic he can't be more honest about it.
The blue elephant in the room.
Context: He said he was going to jump the fence and fight that n******. Referring to a black security guard who was doing his job. I'd say yes, it's much worse. He was not saying "hi, my n******" to a pal.
Also, and not that it excuses him in anyway, but in the video where he first apologizes, I'd say he seems very sincere about being sorry. He made no excuses, no "sorry to anyone who was offended", no blaming anyone but himself, and seemed legitimately upset at himself. I don't think he's upset because he's white and got caught.
Pretty hilarious that the black player that got the most coverage regarding the comments was Mr. Dog Killer himself. I absolutely think it's relevant for important black players on the team to be interviewed. Just not that one.
Not to mention Mr. Dog Killer's idiot washout brother, who posted a bounty on Cooper using twitter, then deleted it because his girlfriend was mad that he did it.
I love sports. More drama than politics if you're paying attention.
Mrebo said:
Do we know who he was referring to and why?
did you watch the video I linked to????
Mrebo said:
If it is okay for black people to use the word and he was using it in the same way, why should it be considered worse?
that is a stupid and ignorant thing to say. I never said it is ok for black people to use the word. No one in here said that. So I don't know where you got that idea. I personally think no one should be using it. However that doesn't mean that it is the same whether the word comes out of the black person's mouth or a white person's mouth. It isn't. Anyone that knows and understands the history of racism and slavery and discrimination in country would know that.
The word is what the slave owners/overseers used to refer to their slaves. It is obvious considering the history of the word, that it is different when a black person uses it as compared to a white person. For one thing when I hear a white person use it, the racist detectors go off. Obviously the same is not true when I hear a black person use it. When someone uses that word, it tell us something about them. But tt doesn't tell us the same thing when spoken black a person that is does when spoken by a white person.
Mrebo said:
I was thinking about how it is said people are reclaiming a word (like the n-word or "queer") or taking away its power to hurt by using it.
I haven't heard this said at all. I personally wish the word would just disappear for our vocabulary all together. There is no reason to justify the existence of that word. It is an extremely offensive term and I think the world would be better off without it.
Mrebo said:
Perhaps it is the altered definition of the word (thanks to the adoption of many blacks) that Cooper was using. I hear young black guys using it constantly.
please refer to my comments above about how it is different when a white person uses as compared to a black person.
Mrebo said:
My thought is that nobody should be using it,
agreed.
Mrebo said:
that the usage of the word by many blacks is simply wallowing in its negativity. Leaving permissible usage only for those who were historical targets of a word is a sort of sociological impediment.
perhaps.
Mrebo said:
If we are really going to neuter or reclaim the word, whites should be using it, prolifically. We should use it against whites and blacks. We could use it in a friendly or a disparaging manner.
totally disagree here. the history of the word, renders it impossible to use against whites in the same way it is used against black. I think the better way would be for everyone to just stop using the word entirely.
Mrebo said:
I think Cooper really is only upset because he is white and got caught.
yes.
Mrebo said:
I don't have evidence he is a racist,
um, yeah we do. that fact that he used the word is evidence that he is a racist. In addition, he used the word to insult some black people he was angry at. I don't think it just slipped out in a moment of temporary insanity. He meant to use it. I don't it was the first time he used that word. I think in private he uses the word all the time.
Mrebo said:
any more than the blacks who use the word.
it is if we are talking about being racist against blacks.
Mrebo said:
The n-word has taken on a broader meaning and I wouldn't be surprised if that is the sense in which he used it.
I know of no broader meaning that ugly word has taken on. And anyone what watched to video would know that he wasn't using the way a black person uses it.
TV's Frink said:
Also, and not that it excuses him in anyway, but in the video where he first apologizes, I'd say he seems very sincere about being sorry. He made no excuses, no "sorry to anyone who was offended", no blaming anyone but himself, and seemed legitimately upset at himself. I don't think he's upset because he's white and got caught.
Anthony Weiner also made good apology as well and then went right on sexting pics of his junk. The fact that he or someone he found to help him was able to write a good apology is no indication that he is really sorry. People like him would have access to pr people who know how write good apologies.
TV's Frink said:
Pretty hilarious that the black player that got the most coverage regarding the comments was Mr. Dog Killer himself. I absolutely think it's relevant for important black players on the team to be interviewed. Just not that one.
agreed. however, he is a QB on the team and has good chance of being the starter this year. It is only natural for the media to want to get comments from the QB of team.
TV's Frink said:
Not to mention Mr. Dog Killer's idiot washout brother, who posted a bounty on Cooper using twitter, then deleted it because his girlfriend was mad that he did it.
yeah, his brother is a piece of shit. If I were a DA in the right jurisdiction, I would seriously consider prosecuting him. I am pretty sure putting a bounty on someone's head is illegal.
Warbler said:
TV's Frink said:
Also, and not that it excuses him in anyway, but in the video where he first apologizes, I'd say he seems very sincere about being sorry. He made no excuses, no "sorry to anyone who was offended", no blaming anyone but himself, and seemed legitimately upset at himself. I don't think he's upset because he's white and got caught.
Anthony Weiner also made good apology as well and then went right on sexting pics of his junk. The fact that he or someone he found to help him was able to write a good apology is no indication that he is really sorry. People like him would have access to pr people who know how write good apologies.
Again, I don't want to sound like I'm defending Cooper, as what he said was terrible. But if you watched that apology, it would be hard to come to the conclusion that it was written by anyone.
TV's Frink said:
Context: He said he was going to jump the fence and fight that n******. Referring to a black security guard who was doing his job. I'd say yes, it's much worse. He was not saying "hi, my n******" to a pal.
Thank you for the context. I watched the one video Warb posted and it was just a loop of him saying it.
Also, and not that it excuses him in anyway, but in the video where he first apologizes, I'd say he seems very sincere about being sorry. He made no excuses, no "sorry to anyone who was offended", no blaming anyone but himself, and seemed legitimately upset at himself. I don't think he's upset because he's white and got caught.
I still search for an explanation for why someone would use that word. I can fathom no circumstance in which I would use that word. I can't help but think the stigma has actually become lessened by its use in some circles. Maybe he is in some respect racist, as Warbler suggests.
Warbler said:
Mrebo said:
If it is okay for black people to use the word and he was using it in the same way, why should it be considered worse?
that is a stupid and ignorant thing to say.
That is something known as a rhetorical question.
I never said it is ok for black people to use the word.No one in here said that. So I don't know where you got that idea.
As you admit later in your response, you never heard about the movements to reclaim or neuter certain epithets by using them. That is clearly what I am referring to. Sorry you haven't heard of that before, but it's not an obscure thing.
However that doesn't mean that it is the same whether the word comes out of the black person's mouth or a white person's mouth. It isn't. Anyone that knows and understands the history of racism and slavery and discrimination in country would know that.
It's not so easy nowadays to point at the person who says the n-word and declare them to be a racist. If I started calling my friends the n-word, that doesn't make me racist. And if I got really mad at you and called you that, I still wouldn't be a racist. And if I were in the habit of using that word against a broad array of people, using it against a black person wouldn't make me a racist. What matters is the context and intent.
Mrebo said:
If we are really going to neuter or reclaim the word, whites should be using it, prolifically. We should use it against whites and blacks. We could use it in a friendly or a disparaging manner.
totally disagree here. the history of the word, renders it impossible to use against whites in the same way it is used against black. I think the better way would be for everyone to just stop using the word entirely.
Rhetorical again. I already agreed nobody should be using it. The point is that following the logic of those who defend the use of the term by blacks, one should recognize that if everyone used it in a non-racial way would really weaken it as a racist word. I'm trying to illustrate the stupidity of defending the use of the word by blacks, or anyone else.
Mrebo said:
I don't have evidence he is a racist,
um, yeah we do. that fact that he used the word is evidence that he is a racist. In addition, he used the word to insult some black people he was angry at. I don't think it just slipped out in a moment of temporary insanity. He meant to use it. I don't it was the first time he used that word. I think in private he uses the word all the time.
But maybe Frink is right. I wonder the reason it is part of his vocabulary. I wager it has more to do with the broadened usage of the word in some communities than with him being a Racist. But maybe I'm wrong.
Mrebo said:
The n-word has taken on a broader meaning and I wouldn't be surprised if that is the sense in which he used it.
I know of no broader meaning that ugly word has taken on. And anyone what watched to video would know that he wasn't using the way a black person uses it.
If you know black people use it, then you are aware of a broader meaning. It has become sort of an urban culture thing. It is also used in a hateful way toward blacks by blacks.
Hm, unfortunate that we refer to "blacks." I always found that awkward in classes. I prefer it to "African American" but it still connotes an "otherness."
The blue elephant in the room.
Apparently (from studies I've seen), blacks/African-Americans themselves disagree on the correct term to use.
Not sure what you mean by "otherness," however. If we were to say Riley Cooper called a person a n*****, that would just lead to more questions.
Warbler said:
TV's Frink said:
Not to mention Mr. Dog Killer's idiot washout brother, who posted a bounty on Cooper using twitter, then deleted it because his girlfriend was mad that he did it.
yeah, his brother is a piece of shit. If I were a DA in the right jurisdiction, I would seriously consider prosecuting him. I am pretty sure putting a bounty on someone's head is illegal.
My initial reaction was the same, but I didn't realize it was a "bounty" in that he offered $1000 to the first football player to take Cooper out during a game. I'm not sure that's really illegal. I'm sure he could be fined if he were in the NFL, but since he isn't, I don't think there's any punishment to be had.
Mrebo said:
TV's Frink said:
Context: He said he was going to jump the fence and fight that n******. Referring to a black security guard who was doing his job. I'd say yes, it's much worse. He was not saying "hi, my n******" to a pal.
Thank you for the context. I watched the one video Warb posted and it was just a loop of him saying it.
so just what context would it have been acceptable for him to use that word?
Mrebo said:
Warbler said:
Mrebo said:
If it is okay for black people to use the word and he was using it in the same way, why should it be considered worse?
that is a stupid and ignorant thing to say.
That is something known as a rhetorical question.
whatever.
Mrebo said:
I never said it is ok for black people to use the word.No one in here said that. So I don't know where you got that idea.
As you admit later in your response, you never heard about the movements to reclaim or neuter certain epithets by using them. That is clearly what I am referring to. Sorry you haven't heard of that before, but it's not an obscure thing.
Maybe it isn't, but I had never heard of it before and the way you said it, made it seem as if one of us had said it was acceptable for black people to use that word.
Mrebo said:
However that doesn't mean that it is the same whether the word comes out of the black person's mouth or a white person's mouth. It isn't. Anyone that knows and understands the history of racism and slavery and discrimination in country would know that.
It's not so easy nowadays to point at the person who says the n-word and declare them to be a racist.
I think it is, if the person in question was white and Riley Cooper is.
Mrebo said:
If I started calling my friends the n-word, that doesn't make me racist.
someone who isn't a racist, would not call his friends the n-word.
Mrebo said:
And if I got really mad at you and called you that, I still wouldn't be a racist.
ditto.
Mrebo said:
And if I were in the habit of using that word against a broad array of people, using it against a black person wouldn't make me a racist.
except, due to the meaning and history of the word, it doesn't make sense to use it against a broad array of people. It would be like a calling a black person, a cracker.
Mrebo said:
What matters is the context and intent.
not when we are talking about a white person using the n-word.
Mrebo said:
Mrebo said:
If we are really going to neuter or reclaim the word, whites should be using it, prolifically. We should use it against whites and blacks. We could use it in a friendly or a disparaging manner.
totally disagree here. the history of the word, renders it impossible to use against whites in the same way it is used against black. I think the better way would be for everyone to just stop using the word entirely.
Rhetorical again.
whatever again. my point is still the same. The history of the word renders it impossible to use against white or any other race, in the same it is used against black people.
Mrebo said:
I already agreed nobody should be using it. The point is that following the logic of those who defend the use of the term by blacks, one should recognize that if everyone used it in a non-racial way would really weaken it as a racist word. I'm trying to illustrate the stupidity of defending the use of the word by blacks, or anyone else.
you seem to be going about it in an odd way. I also find it odd for you to do so here, considering that no one here has defended the use of the word by blacks.
Mrebo said:
I don't have evidence he is a racist,
um, yeah we do. that fact that he used the word is evidence that he is a racist. In addition, he used the word to insult some black people he was angry at. I don't think it just slipped out in a moment of temporary insanity. He meant to use it. I don't it was the first time he used that word. I think in private he uses the word all the time.
But maybe Frink is right. I wonder the reason it is part of his vocabulary. I wager it has more to do with the broadened usage of the word in some communities than with him being a Racist. But maybe I'm wrong.
yeah, I think you are wrong. Maybe 30 years ago it would be understandable for a white person to use that term due to its broad use in whatever community he lived/grew up in. But this is the year 2013, you have to be living under the biggest boulder in the history of the universe to not know that the word is unacceptable and ugly.
Mrebo said:
Mrebo said:
The n-word has taken on a broader meaning and I wouldn't be surprised if that is the sense in which he used it.
I know of no broader meaning that ugly word has taken on. And anyone what watched to video would know that he wasn't using the way a black person uses it.
If you know black people use it, then you are aware of a broader meaning. It has become sort of an urban culture thing. It is also used in a hateful way toward blacks by blacks.
unfortunately true. Like I said before, I don't consider it acceptable for black people to use the either. I just think it is much, much worse when a white person uses it.
Mrebo said:
Hm, unfortunate that we refer to "blacks." I always found that awkward in classes. I prefer it to "African American" but it still connotes an "otherness."
same thing could be said about "whites". But unfortunately we need some sort of term to use to refer the different sets of people. Otherwise having these sorts conversations about race would be much more difficult.
TV's Frink said:
Warbler said:
TV's Frink said:
Also, and not that it excuses him in anyway, but in the video where he first apologizes, I'd say he seems very sincere about being sorry. He made no excuses, no "sorry to anyone who was offended", no blaming anyone but himself, and seemed legitimately upset at himself. I don't think he's upset because he's white and got caught.
Anthony Weiner also made good apology as well and then went right on sexting pics of his junk. The fact that he or someone he found to help him was able to write a good apology is no indication that he is really sorry. People like him would have access to pr people who know how write good apologies.
Again, I don't want to sound like I'm defending Cooper, as what he said was terrible. But if you watched that apology, it would be hard to come to the conclusion that it was written by anyone.
not sure what you mean, someone had to come up with it. Maybe it was Cooper himself, but someone created it.
TV's Frink said:
Warbler said:
TV's Frink said:
Not to mention Mr. Dog Killer's idiot washout brother, who posted a bounty on Cooper using twitter, then deleted it because his girlfriend was mad that he did it.
yeah, his brother is a piece of shit. If I were a DA in the right jurisdiction, I would seriously consider prosecuting him. I am pretty sure putting a bounty on someone's head is illegal.
My initial reaction was the same, but I didn't realize it was a "bounty" in that he offered $1000 to the first football player to take Cooper out during a game. I'm not sure that's really illegal. I'm sure he could be fined if he were in the NFL, but since he isn't, I don't think there's any punishment to be had.
it still sounds illegal to me. He is essentially offering $1000 to have Cooper beat up. Seems like it should be illegal.
Warbler said:
TV's Frink said:
Warbler said:
TV's Frink said:
Also, and not that it excuses him in anyway, but in the video where he first apologizes, I'd say he seems very sincere about being sorry. He made no excuses, no "sorry to anyone who was offended", no blaming anyone but himself, and seemed legitimately upset at himself. I don't think he's upset because he's white and got caught.
Anthony Weiner also made good apology as well and then went right on sexting pics of his junk. The fact that he or someone he found to help him was able to write a good apology is no indication that he is really sorry. People like him would have access to pr people who know how write good apologies.
Again, I don't want to sound like I'm defending Cooper, as what he said was terrible. But if you watched that apology, it would be hard to come to the conclusion that it was written by anyone.
not sure what you mean, someone had to come up with it. Maybe it was Cooper himself, but someone created it.
So you've never said anything without writing it first? Interesting.
Warbler said:
Mrebo said:
If I started calling my friends the n-word, that doesn't make me racist.
a non-black who isn't a racist, would not call his friends the n-word.
Fixed that for you.
Warbler said:
Mrebo said:
As you admit later in your response, you never heard about the movements to reclaim or neuter certain epithets by using them. That is clearly what I am referring to. Sorry you haven't heard of that before, but it's not an obscure thing.
Maybe it isn't, but I had never heard of it before and the way you said it, made it seem as if one of us had said it was acceptable for black people to use that word.
How I said it was:
If it is okay for black people to use the word and he was using it in the same way, why should it be considered worse?
I was thinking about how it is said people are reclaiming a word (like the n-word or "queer") or taking away its power to hurt by using it. Perhaps it is the altered definition of the word (thanks to the adoption of many blacks) that Cooper was using. I hear young black guys using it constantly.
It is super obvious it is my thought based upon what I hear out in the world. No idea how you got the notion I was ascribing any statements to you or anyone else in the thread. The question - and you can "whatever" until the cows come home to where the sun doesn't shine - was obviously my own rhetorical question.
Mrebo said:
If I started calling my friends the n-word, that doesn't make me racist.
someone who isn't a racist, would not call his friends the n-word.
*sigh*
It would be like a calling a black person, a cracker.
Is is racist if I call you a cracker?
Mrebo said:
What matters is the context and intent.
not when we are talking about a white person using the n-word.
I won't bang my head against this brick horse.
yeah, I think you are wrong. Maybe 30 years ago it would be understandable for a white person to use that term due to its broad use in whatever community he lived/grew up in. But this is the year 2013, you have to be living under the biggest boulder in the history of the universe to not know that the word is unacceptable and ugly.
I do think you have it backward. 30 years ago it would have been unquestionably racist, however "understandable." Now, the usage in urban, largely black, communities has expanded the definition.
The blue elephant in the room.
I like it when Frink is subversive.
The blue elephant in the room.
Mrebo said:
Warbler said:
Mrebo said:
As you admit later in your response, you never heard about the movements to reclaim or neuter certain epithets by using them. That is clearly what I am referring to. Sorry you haven't heard of that before, but it's not an obscure thing.
Maybe it isn't, but I had never heard of it before and the way you said it, made it seem as if one of us had said it was acceptable for black people to use that word.
How I said it was:
If it is okay for black people to use the word and he was using it in the same way, why should it be considered worse?
I was thinking about how it is said people are reclaiming a word (like the n-word or "queer") or taking away its power to hurt by using it. Perhaps it is the altered definition of the word (thanks to the adoption of many blacks) that Cooper was using. I hear young black guys using it constantly.
It is super obvious it is my thought based upon what I hear out in the world. No idea how you got the notion I was ascribing any statements to you or anyone else in the thread. The question - and you can "whatever" until the cows come home to where the sun doesn't shine - was obviously my own rhetorical question.
my misinterpretation then.
Mrebo said:
Mrebo said:
If I started calling my friends the n-word, that doesn't make me racist.
someone who isn't a racist, would not call his friends the n-word.
*sigh*
?
Mrebo said:
It would be like a calling a black person, a cracker.
Is is racist if I call you a cracker?
no, just stupid offensive.
let us put this way. When you here a black person use the n-word, I doubt it makes in any way shape or for suspicious of that person being racist against black people. However I am sure that when you hear a white person use the n-word, it might make you suspicious that he is a racist.
see the difference?
btw, you did to my post what hate me doing to yours: you selectively edited it.
Mrebo said:
Mrebo said:
What matters is the context and intent.
not when we are talking about a white person using the n-word.
I won't bang my head against this brick horse.
so what context and intent makes it acceptable for a white person to use that term?
Mrebo said:
yeah, I think you are wrong. Maybe 30 years ago it would be understandable for a white person to use that term due to its broad use in whatever community he lived/grew up in. But this is the year 2013, you have to be living under the biggest boulder in the history of the universe to not know that the word is unacceptable and ugly.
I do think you have it backward. 30 years ago it would have been unquestionably racist, however "understandable." Now, the usage in urban, largely black, communities has expanded the definition.
for black people, not for whites.
Mrebo said:
I like it when Frink is subversive.
?
TV's Frink said:
Warbler said:
Mrebo said:
If I started calling my friends the n-word, that doesn't make me racist.
a non-black who isn't a racist, would not call his friends the n-word.
Fixed that for you.
yes.
Warbler said:
Mrebo said:
As you may have heard, the city of Detroit is bankrupt. They're considering selling off their art collections. Unions are demanding they get their pensions. Here are impressive photos of abandoned buildings in Detroit.
that is sad, very sad. You can just tell some of those buildings used be beautiful. That city really needs a lot of help. Its a shame. I think the either state or the feds need to take over.
Oh man, I miss that city! Yeah, it has a lot of beautiful architecture. The apartment I used to live in was pretty run down, but it was still absolutely gorgeous, and was once a really high dollar place that housed some very wealthy people.
It is easy to look at those pictures and think that the whole city is in total ruins. It lost a crazy amount of its population, but the city still chugs away and there is still a lot of really cool stuff there.
The place drew in a massive population because of the auto industry, and now that the industry has taken a dive, and that the massive number of the jobs those workers were once needed for are now all mechanized and/or shipped over seas, sadly, there is absolutely no way it is going to recover.
What do you do when over half your population leaves, and you still have all these left over resources and accommodations you have to pay for, only without the revenue to support it all? There is really no way to fix it, but to go back in time.
I love that city.
Wars, nuclear accidents, or natural disasters notwithstanding, has a large modern city ever "died"?
Maybe they could turn the city into the biggest movie set in history...
Where were you in '77?
It is easier to identify someone using a racial epithet as a racist, especially if they're white; if I hear a black person using the n-word, it does seem less likely they're using it in a racially pejorative fashion (so hopefully we have that point out of the way now), but that doesn't make it non-racist when blacks use the word. I know you don't like/get certain humor but I think comedians do touch on some realities of how people think. The fundamental harm of racism is separating people because of the color of their skin. I don't think it's just that individuals are mean to people of a certain race - yes, that's bad but it's a symptom of the problem. There will never be some grand conversation on race in America (as many out the media occasionally search for, not suggested by anyone in this thread) because people are really only interested in quashing the symptoms. So it's great if the individual known as Riley Cooper apologized for his personal sin of using a racial pejorative. Maybe he's a racist to the core. Maybe he was angry and said the meanest thing he could think of. Maybe it's a word in his vocabulary for the same reason many blacks use it (even if it is super ill-advised for whites to use it). But at the end of the day, I don't care about Riley Cooper in any larger sense. And we can talk about the problem of 1 million Riley Coopers, but the outward ignorance and stereotyping are all just symptoms. In my opinion.
But we can't discuss this anymore in the thread :P
The blue elephant in the room.
Mrebo said:
But we can't discuss this anymore in the thread :P
You can't say something like that after writing such a long paragraph and not expect Warb to break it up into fifteen mini-quotes and respond to each one. :p
perhaps I'll do that in the politics thread . . . we'll see.
