Collaborative Fanediting: An ROTJ Proposition (BACK ON TRACK WITH EMANSWFAN AT THE HELM--SEE POST 1488 OR OP FOR A LINK!) — Page 56

Thanks for the feedback guys.  So if I change the DS shot so the laser hits the ship and it just blows instantly that seems to be the preferred option, but what do you think of the actual look of that shot?  I know some of the masking is a little crude but the reason I ask is it is just a still photo of a ship model that I used so I just wanted to know how believable it looked cause obviously there isn't that much movement in it.

Heres another idea for expanding the space battle.  As usual expect something rough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yqojC1wDE

Johannus said:

Thanks for the feedback guys.  So if I change the DS shot so the laser hits the ship and it just blows instantly that seems to be the preferred option, but what do you think of the actual look of that shot?  I know some of the masking is a little crude but the reason I ask is it is just a still photo of a ship model that I used so I just wanted to know how believable it looked cause obviously there isn't that much movement in it.

I think you need to think about the the battle itself and how it plays out... the point that they move engage the star destroyers at close range is when the deathstar stops firing as it cannot get such a clean shot without perhaps hitting one of it's own or damaging there own from debris. So this is straight after the second cruiser goes down.

I think you should just put your idea before the second cruiser goes and the still is not as good as that shot but thats only my opinion.

B-wings are hard work little footage exists nobody seems to care about making cgi model animations of them so it's hard to get good stuff to work with but I have made progress with the sequence and am nearly done with the shots I needed... Then I will have to put it together re-use some footage too and It will be done.

If anyone wants to do some voice recording and post it to me It would be helpful :) I need lines like:

watch out for those guns

were passing through the magnetic field

stay low

switch all power to front deflection screens

theres alot of fire coming from those deflection towers

were going in full throttle

cut across the trench and try to draw their fire

pull up

eject

Gold leader try to keep those fighters off our back

If your worried about the sound of your voice then don't because It won't sound anything like your voice when I am done with it lol I thought it would be a fun idea to include peoples voices but nobody has submitted anything so far so If you cannot be bothered fine but It's meant to be fun so lets have those recordings!

I hope for more B-wings, though I don't know if I'd include them in that particular shot.  I imagine a very grand attack just on the Executor, and perhaps in some of the other shots we could see the B-wings attacking.  Your work may be pretty rough, but it looks fun and pretty good, Johannus.

darth_ender said:

I hope for more B-wings, though I don't know if I'd include them in that particular shot.  I imagine a very grand attack just on the Executor, and perhaps in some of the other shots we could see the B-wings attacking.  Your work may be pretty rough, but it looks fun and pretty good, Johannus.

The reason I used that shot was just before it Ackbar says to concentrate all fire, then we see two ships attack it so I thought it would be good to add a few more and why not B-Wings if we want to increase their involvement.  I would definitely still like more new shots but those would probably require using either physical or 3D models., this was just a little play around with still images to show how we could theoretically expand a few existing shots. 

timdiggerm said:

Yeah, that's not really what B-Wings are for. My impression of the situation is that B-Wings are meant to be the TIE-Bombers of the Rebels, directly attacking the main body of Star Destroyers with warheads.

I always thought the Y-Wings were the Rebel's bombers, though I'm now unsure whether I've read that somewhere or imagined it. 

I once found this picture from Empire at War which I think generally captures what I would hope for in the attack on the Executor.  Ackbar orders the concentrated fire; several capital ships begin converging, and I think most of them should actually take up positions astride the Executor; Home One is not excluded from the battle (and in this picture, I imagine Home One as the larger cruiser, as it was intended to be a larger ship in spite of EU "canonical" descriptions); several fighters are shown swarming the massive ship, including B-wings and Y-wings unleashing their heavy ordnance (yes, Y-wings were the original bombers, which were then being fazed out by the B-wings); two A-wings manage to take out the shield generator; etc.  I really think we need to see some big ship-to-ship fighting, as well as the smaller fighters harassing and damaging what they can.  We voted in the first round to have a Y-wing bomb the Executor (something I forgot to include in the script), and I think the B-wings should do the same.  This could explain their weakened status and why the A-wings managed to get close enough and provide enough fire power to take out the generator.

Oh, I just found this picture.  It captures the broadside firing I imagine of the capital ships.

I prefer to think of all the Rebel fighter ships as being pretty much as old as each other.

I've never bought into EU idea that the A-Wings were new.

I think it's more a matter of the Alliance growing as the Empire became more oppressive and the news of the Rebel's victory in the first film got passed around.

That would mean as more people joined they brought their own old ships with them (which would be pimped up by Rebel technicians).

The fleet massing for one last push would mean assets that had never been brought together before would come into play.

So Y-Wings would be the bombers of one group and B-Wings may be the bombers/big guns of another, possibly later recruited, wing of the Alliance.

It might be nice to see the fleet as seen at the end of ESB with a few more ships being joined by smaller fleets from multiple directions to form a larger armada before the briefing.

As it jumps to Hyperspace a few more ships could be added too to make it look like stragglers were turning up from all over the place.

You could even have a few ships jump into the battle after it had already started (possibly a few ancient grubby Separatists ships from the PT redeeming the Neimoideans to some extent).  

Bingowings said:

I prefer to think of all the Rebel fighter ships as being pretty much as old as each other.

I've never bought into EU idea that the A-Wings were new.

I think it's more a matter of the Alliance growing as the Empire became more oppressive and the news of the Rebel's victory in the first film got passed around.

That would mean as more people joined they brought their own old ships with them (which would be pimped up by Rebel technicians).

The fleet massing for one last push would mean assets that had never been brought together before would come into play.

So Y-Wings would be the bombers of one group and B-Wings may be the bombers/big guns of another, possibly later recruited, wing of the Alliance.

It might be nice to see the fleet as seen at the end of ESB with a few more ships being joined by smaller fleets from multiple directions to form a larger armada before the briefing.

As it jumps to Hyperspace a few more ships could be added too to make it look like stragglers were turning up from all over the place.

You could even have a few ships jump into the battle after it had already started (possibly a few ancient grubby Separatists ships from the PT redeeming the Neimoideans to some extent).  

I like all the thoughts of this quote, but I especially like the bolded portion.  That could be fun.

So I am going to start assembling what I have put together into the proposed extended sequence if this remotly exites anybody....

Basically the main reason for doing this is because it's too easy in the original ROTJ they just fly into the deathstar II without any losses (oh sorry 1 x-wing) and blow it up... So it's only there to wrap up the end and not so much as another hurdle they must overcome once the shield is down.

Unlike a new hope where it was portrayed as a hulking battlestation with guns all over it and tie fighters flying about... The new one even though it's bigger and probably has alot more guns and definatly there is alot more tie fighters there is not even a shadow on it's predesessor in terms of what it takes to even get to the port.

There is no sense of struggle

Thats what is missing and it's bugging me after doing my cut and theres not even enough fighters flying in to even possibly contemplate the chances of success. It's the equivalent of an aircraft carrier vs 4 jet ski's in the original.

I hope to change that in my rough mock-up unprofessional crap way of doing things just to excite you all a bit more.

wait a minute where did the CGI team go?

Ronster said:

So I am going to start assembling what I have put together into the proposed extended sequence if this remotly exites anybody....

Basically the main reason for doing this is because it's too easy in the original ROTJ they just fly into the deathstar II without any losses (oh sorry 1 x-wing) and blow it up... So it's only there to wrap up the end and not so much as another hurdle they must overcome once the shield is down.

Unlike a new hope where it was portrayed as a hulking battlestation with guns all over it and tie fighters flying about... The new one even though it's bigger and probably has alot more guns and definatly there is alot more tie fighters there is not even a shadow on it's predesessor in terms of what it takes to even get to the port.

There is no sense of struggle

Thats what is missing and it's bugging me after doing my cut and theres not even enough fighters flying in to even possibly contemplate the chances of success. It's the equivalent of an aircraft carrier vs 4 jet ski's in the original.

I hope to change that in my rough mock-up unprofessional crap way of doing things just to excite you all a bit more.

wait a minute where did the CGI team go?

Well, I know they're quite busy, and Angel has let me know that he will not be participating for a while, but I believe he wants to jump back on board at a later time.

People are busy, but I believe most of them are excited to work on the project when time allows.  I think when we have a completed script, people will be more ready to get involved.

I do agree, there should be more of a struggle as they're flying into the core, i.e. more collisions.  I already wrote more fighting above the DSII surface.

I did suggest back in the 'Let's Kill Lando' days that when the Falcon bumps into the walls of the interior it suffers much more damage.

It doesn't just lose the communications dish but scrapes the top layer of the hull off causing an interior fire.

So not only do you have the tension of threading the Falcon through the maze of pipes and outracing the resulting explosion you also have the added tension of a fire onboard which could destroy the ship at any time.

You could have the cockpit door fixed shut and show flames lapping against the glass window.

A good model maker could even construct models of the interior of the ship and have them on fire perhaps blending them with isolated reconstructions of the set by removing the cast from scenes in the previous movies.

Even if Lando and Nien Numb do get out of there it would add a bit more peril to the situation.

The Falcon is so well recognized she has become practically a character in her own right so it might mirror Artoo's damage in the first film in terms of audience response.

I really like that idea, Bingo.  I think what some people really find lacking in ROTJ is tension.  Something like that would certainly add to the peril of Lando and his crew, as well as the Falcon.  Good call.

darth_ender said:

Ronster said:

So I am going to start assembling what I have put together into the proposed extended sequence if this remotly exites anybody....

Basically the main reason for doing this is because it's too easy in the original ROTJ they just fly into the deathstar II without any losses (oh sorry 1 x-wing) and blow it up... So it's only there to wrap up the end and not so much as another hurdle they must overcome once the shield is down.

Unlike a new hope where it was portrayed as a hulking battlestation with guns all over it and tie fighters flying about... The new one even though it's bigger and probably has alot more guns and definatly there is alot more tie fighters there is not even a shadow on it's predesessor in terms of what it takes to even get to the port.

There is no sense of struggle

Thats what is missing and it's bugging me after doing my cut and theres not even enough fighters flying in to even possibly contemplate the chances of success. It's the equivalent of an aircraft carrier vs 4 jet ski's in the original.

I hope to change that in my rough mock-up unprofessional crap way of doing things just to excite you all a bit more.

wait a minute where did the CGI team go?

Well, I know they're quite busy, and Angel has let me know that he will not be participating for a while, but I believe he wants to jump back on board at a later time.

People are busy, but I believe most of them are excited to work on the project when time allows.  I think when we have a completed script, people will be more ready to get involved.

I do agree, there should be more of a struggle as they're flying into the core, i.e. more collisions.  I already wrote more fighting above the DSII surface.

Well I'm doing the best I can with what I have to work with which is nothing but existing footage or some computer game stuff.... I thought people were going to create some models etc...

From what I can gather so far It is going to take a while to get the flow of events right to install the sense of speed... as at the momment what I have feels broken and will need rearranging... Playing with it to get it to work better and probably cut back on some of what I have to maintain focus and momentum.

Some shots I have of the falcon flying over the surface of the deathstar being pursued by ties look real good and some of the star tours footage actually works well either in tie fighter cockpit or awing and ywing.

Chopped it up to get maximum use of it the star tours ride footage.

Ok hers another idea to get people to participate for fun....

I'll put the raw footage sequence together (broken) then people must do there own edits of it including me to get it to work better. i.e flow and make cuts and re-arrange the sequence

see how many different ideas come?

Today is the last day to vote!!!  I will update the script after today and will hopefully hand out assignments.  I like a lot of these suggestions that have come up since, but any changes to the script in the future will have to rely completely on me...we can't vote on every detail.  It takes just too long.

Hopefully we can make most of this work.  I want it to be clear, we can't promise to deliver on everything, but the editors will do their best, I'm sure.  I still wish I had more talent for this sort of thing because I'd want to help out as much as possible.

I also want to be clear, we should not set a definite time frame.  We've made several ambitious votes, and even with several people, it could take years to get it done.  I sure hope it's not more than two, but who knows.

In any case, after update the script, I am going to ask the editing team to decide which aspects they would be willing to work on throughout the project.  That way, I can hopefully divvy up the work load and assign a particular task to them.  I really believe and hope we can do most of this.

And hopefully I'm successful in fading into the background, somewhat.  I've limited contact much more lately, and I intend to do even more once assignments are made.

There seems to be air inside the Death Star tubes (going by the nature of some of explosion they have to out run).

So you could have the fire extinguished the moment the damaged ship hits the vacuum of space.

Another possibility could be that Lando ejects the cockpit section of the Falcon as it bursts out of the vent (it could have little thrusters and act like a giant escape pod).

That would mean Han's prediction about not seeing the ship again has come true, but Lando still lives.

fishmanlee said:

Bingowings said:

(possibly a few ancient grubby Separatists ships from the PT redeeming the Neimoideans to some extent).  

The SE makes this impossible.

I don't know what you mean Mr Fish, surely this is a whole new SE where the only limits are our collective imagination, our collective skills and the democratic process.

I suspect we will not get any more votes today, meaning we have a total of 23 voters.  A good turnout.  I will keep it up till tomorrow, just in case, and will report then.  Things turned out really well.  I truly hope our effects team is still interested and up to the challenge!

EDIT: I should add that interpreting the data in the format I selected may be trickier than I expected, particularly in the questions with multiple choices.  I didn't really think of the implications of the format.  I'll explain later.

timdiggerm said:

I don't think they did.

But really, that's not a bad idea.

I have to disagree there.

Palpatine is meant to be the hero of the Clone Wars, it wouldn't make sense for him to have the 'bad guys' as advisors.

I think he would have bombed their planet back into the stone age.

I quite like the idea of having the former cowards (and Palpatine's first victims) bravely turn up to assist in his final downfall.