Collaborative Fanediting: An ROTJ Proposition (BACK ON TRACK WITH EMANSWFAN AT THE HELM--SEE POST 1488 OR OP FOR A LINK!) — Page 54

darth_ender said:

Trying to address a few things: Ronster, I'm not really a big fan of most of Jabba's altered lines.  The only one that maybe sounds equal or better is, "Now we will deal with you."

Also regarding wrapping up the brother/sister plot point, I think if you'd prefer that Luke not tell Leia, then that addition to the end does nothing but slow down the ending.  I just perhaps she doesn't even ever need to know--she just loves Han in the end.

The whole thing with the ships jumping to hyperspace in the end is not my ideal ending, but I have to admit that it's pretty cool.  I'll include it in the vote.

I also admit that I am laughing at what you did with Jerjerrod.  The shield goes down, the Executor crashes into the Death Star, and then the Imperial officer replaces Ric Olie as the new Captain Obvious by telling Jerjerrod that "the shield is down."  I must admit that I skimmed that point and missed it.  That's pretty darn funny!  However, I like how you rearranged some of the shots with the amount of damage to the Death Star seemingly far more as a result of the Executor's crash, and I like that Jerjerrod orders the fleet to take a defensive position around the Death Star.  However, it's clear that you didn't want the Death Star to fire on Endor, something that I think improves the tension in the film drastically.  And I personally like my own portrayal of his demise better.

As always, it's constructive criticism, but that's what I feel.  And while I don't always agree with your ideas, that doesn't mean I think they are bad.  They're just not what I would do.

I liked a lot of the additional battle shots you added, though I know they are just to convey ideas.  

Thanks for the feedback D and no offense taken, I understand that you see things different to myself, like I said it was meant to be a what about this?

Jabbas lines where just a bit of experimentation really was not sure myself how they work but my favourite has to be "you'll regret this we have powerfull friends" and jabba saya "No I won't princess" and licks her face lol

No I did not want the deathstar to fire on Endor... I just think mutiny would occur before out and out suicide especially when the rebels are still outnumbered just because the shield has already gone down from the Endor surface it's too drastic to resort to somthing like that under the conditions I assume the plan would have been to call off this once luke had been turned... But It makes little sense as the tension is lost because everyone dies in this eventuality and I preferred to portray Jejerrod as a paniced weed without the emperor there to fire his orders at him... To see him fall apart and it made me lol I think you meant to say that the superlaser looses it's power generators after the executor crashes into DSII

Luke not telling leia is the main theme really of the edit in a sense this is still unfinished and needs some extra lines for the emotional payoff specifically revealing that Luke was right about his father whilst telling leia she is his sister. So I understand because I would need to manipulate lines or use the radio drama or dub somthing to reach the conclusion which leaves leia gobsmacked and becomes more her story rather than lukes after this point. It's also meant to make Vader more a real human being and a cool down after the celebrations. You might be right somtimes less is more but I'd like to get some other opinions on this too

Why should we feel that there is no need for the rebels after ROTJ  so I wanted to do a "to be continued...." feel to the end even though there is no sequel

Edit: Getting another trial of CS5 I've got unfinished business with the space battle it's bugging me I never managed to finish all the shots I was hoping to mock-up and I'm sure it will be fun and I just have to see the ties racing after the rebels over DSII surface  with rebels biting the dust so I'm doing it and some other space battle shots too...

If anyone can tell me where i can get footage of mon cal cruisers I'll be happy :)

So I got another trial downloaded with a new account of CS5 and I plan to properly finish the story board cut I have been working on as after reviewing it myself I would like to make quite a few changes to it.... I want to cut a couple of small  things back but more than anything I want to show the struggle they go through to storm the death star which I had no time to do before my trial expired.

Basically I'm planning to do 40 secs to a minute of Ballistic mayhem in AE

This will Consist mainly of footage of rebel ships (I plan to show x-wing a-wing b-wing and y-wing) and pilots racing across the deathstar being pursued by ties with some being taken down along the way it will not be a dogfight and this will lead to entering the exhaust port / service tunnel

Adding Death star gun turrets

More Falcon Gun Turret action with ties in pursuit and towards them across the surface of DSII

Tie cockpits and Huds and stormtrooper flyboys

add the B-WING mon-calamari pilot

Rebel Comms Chatter - Anyone who wants to send me a few audio lines they think might work after reading the description I'd be happy to mess about with it. But record it in a quiet environment I don't want any background noise please because it might sound terrible when effects are added

Other ideas

Perhaps show An attack on the emperors throne room tower

The falcon flying between 2 Big gun turrets and a pursuing tie crashing

Showing the deathstar power up sequence to fire before the power fails on superlaser and jejerrod and show him giving the order to fire too

tightening up the end of the cut and finding the lines I need

replace all pan and scan footage and footage with logos in the cut with widescreen footage to keep the continuity as It's bugging me aswell as others I am sure

If anyone wants to add anything to this please give me your suggestions

Random thoughts while watching the rough cut:

I like the idea of the opening scene but as the main characters aren't included I think it needs to be a lot shorter, something more reminiscent of the first scene of Empire

I like Yoda handing Luke the green crystal for his lightsaber

I'd cut the exposition scene of the droids walking to the palace, cut from deleted scene to them getting to the big door

I fear you're biting off more than you can chew with this edit; some seriously ambitious stuff in the first few minutes that will take uber cgi and compositing skills

Jabba's 'What is it' should end with a ?

Less Salacious frikkin' Crumb would be better

I like the idea of Palps' new first scene

I'd make lots of cuts to the Jabba sequence to make it seem less kiddy, Han less lame and the whole thing a bit pacier

Interesting use of the sandstorm scene, works well

Surprised to see the Wicket/Leia scene - it's usually about the first thing editors cut

Just thinking out loud here: I wonder if there's some way to make Threepio's story to the Ewoks more cinematic, maybe with flashbacks or something

Not sure about the ROTS flashback - if one of the themes of the film is Vader wrestling with how he's been dehumanised etc, the theme should be established in act one

I don't think the Skywalkers' shuttle landing in the DS hangar bay is necessary - it reminds me of Lucas' bad changes to Empire

I like the shot of the Falcon's turret window looking out on star destroyers during the battle, although it's unclear who's in there using the gun

If you're gonna cut out ghost Anakin you should probably crop the shot so Yoda and Obi Wan are centre frame

I don't think the ending works, it doesn't really go anywhere; probably better to end on Endor

Interesting edit, gonna be a lot of work to get some of these concepts fleshed out. I'd personally choose to cut a lot more childish Jabba and Ewok stuff - but since it's well beyond two hours now I think that's possible and it'll still clock in around a couple of hours.

I also think the Fett storyline doesn't make much sense - he's in the opening scene working for the Empire, then goes to Jabba's palace, then gets his head chopped off. I still think it's best that he's not in the film, as he doesn't really do anything, and has no arc at all.

An idea off the top of my head: there are a couple of fan films with decent footage of Mandalorians attacking stormtroopers in a forest, so what if somehow the rebels paid the Mandalorians to fight for them as mercenaries (think: the ghosts fighting for Aragorn in ROTK) and during the battle Fett died as a kind of anti-hero, then he would have an arc that could work. But I imagine that would be better in a non-Ewok cut.

Anyway, good luck!

daneditor said:

Random thoughts while watching the rough cut:

I like the idea of the opening scene but as the main characters aren't included I think it needs to be a lot shorter, something more reminiscent of the first scene of Empire

I like Yoda handing Luke the green crystal for his lightsaber

I'd cut the exposition scene of the droids walking to the palace, cut from deleted scene to them getting to the big door

I fear you're biting off more than you can chew with this edit; some seriously ambitious stuff in the first few minutes that will take uber cgi and compositing skills

Jabba's 'What is it' should end with a ?

Less Salacious frikkin' Crumb would be better

I like the idea of Palps' new first scene

I'd make lots of cuts to the Jabba sequence to make it seem less kiddy, Han less lame and the whole thing a bit pacier

Interesting use of the sandstorm scene, works well

Surprised to see the Wicket/Leia scene - it's usually about the first thing editors cut

Just thinking out loud here: I wonder if there's some way to make Threepio's story to the Ewoks more cinematic, maybe with flashbacks or something

Not sure about the ROTS flashback - if one of the themes of the film is Vader wrestling with how he's been dehumanised etc, the theme should be established in act one

I don't think the Skywalkers' shuttle landing in the DS hangar bay is necessary - it reminds me of Lucas' bad changes to Empire

I like the shot of the Falcon's turret window looking out on star destroyers during the battle, although it's unclear who's in there using the gun

If you're gonna cut out ghost Anakin you should probably crop the shot so Yoda and Obi Wan are centre frame

I don't think the ending works, it doesn't really go anywhere; probably better to end on Endor

Interesting edit, gonna be a lot of work to get some of these concepts fleshed out. I'd personally choose to cut a lot more childish Jabba and Ewok stuff - but since it's well beyond two hours now I think that's possible and it'll still clock in around a couple of hours.

I also think the Fett storyline doesn't make much sense - he's in the opening scene working for the Empire, then goes to Jabba's palace, then gets his head chopped off. I still think it's best that he's not in the film, as he doesn't really do anything, and has no arc at all.

An idea off the top of my head: there are a couple of fan films with decent footage of Mandalorians attacking stormtroopers in a forest, so what if somehow the rebels paid the Mandalorians to fight for them as mercenaries (think: the ghosts fighting for Aragorn in ROTK) and during the battle Fett died as a kind of anti-hero, then he would have an arc that could work. But I imagine that would be better in a non-Ewok cut.

Anyway, good luck!

Thanks for the feedback on these points... To be honest with you... I have tried to avoid relentless cutting that some editors do and just shrug there shoulders and say I'm getting rid of it alltogether and there is not much of the original left so whilst trying to make subtle cuts and keep the feeling of the original I've also tried to expand upon and make some things a bit more paletteable like leia and wicket for example at present you cannot have ROTJ without Ewoks so If you can't beat em join em...

I quite like the Jabbas palace scenes, where as alot of people dislike alot of elements to it, I actually really like Jabba as a character and salacious his little parasite sidekick but I take your points onboard and part of the main reasons I have done cut's and additions is plot considerations not wether I personally like somthing or not as that is perhaps discounting alot of the original source material and just writing it off if you just don't like it.

I did not want to be too ruthless with cutting stuff alot of others may enjoy...

The opening I did was really very difficult to try to pull off and I understand your opinion just trying to join the dots in the plot.. I hope somone could come up with somthing along these lines that is better yes it is ambitious but you may aswell go in big and see what happens.

ROTJ is not ROTJ without Boba Fett in it IMO that ruins any edit immediatley of ROTJ as I said before thats a big shrug to cut him just because he has a lame death scene so I'd tried to make his death a bit better but I understand why he gets cut I just cannot understand why people don't try harder to keep him in.

Boba fett never had a story arc ever he is just a henchman

I think I should cut both the flashbacks but it was meant to be a duelism between luke and Vader in this version. Experimenting really

ROTJ is still a good movie just not as good as the other 2 in the trilogy and the moral dilemma I have had in trying to come up with somthing that works has been enormously challenging whilst not wanting to make ruthless cuts where I feel I may or may not like somthing or somthing works or does not work and trying to craft somthing a bit different whilst still trying to keep it close to it's roots without losing alot of what people hold dear to there childhood memories.... And this is as far as I got

Don't know what to do about the end but if it's not working it aint working I will continue the search for the missing ingredient but it will go If I cannot find anything that helps it conclude on the notes that I want it to.

Alright, you should be getting a PM shortly inviting you to join the vote, if you are interested.  This is an online survey, and a free account only allowed 20 questions, resulting in the format you will see.  You may vote only once.  If you choose to vote, you are required to answer all questions to submit it.  There are no 'maybe' options.  Links are included if you want to see what is being referenced, but they are not hyperlinked, so you must copy and paste them.  The current script is the updated editing guide linked several pages back and in the first post.  The following is a list of invitees.  If you do not get a PM in the next little while and want one, please let me know.

darth_ender

MrInsaneA

Ronster

DominicCobb

timdiggerm

ray_afraid

Harmy

Angel

ShepardCommander

fishmanlee

TV’s Frink

xhonzi

Bingowings

Jaitea

Sluggo

Ovan Marekal

Vladius

Captain Antilles

regularjoe

JLB_Tosche

GoodMusician

aalenfae

Johannus

emanswfan

Mrebo

XyZ

jonathan7

Wexter

ben_danger

SS4DarthPayne

daneditor

You have until February 28th to vote, at which time the polls will close.  After that, changes will be implemented, and darth_ender will become script dictator.  If any further changes are to be made, I'll have to do it without a vote, though I won't do it without some discussion.  Have fun.

As an additional update, DaveTheHutt was kind enough to upload an alternate version of Star Wars: The Interactive Video Board Game, the one actually done by daveytod.  Here are the links:

http://www.mediafire.com *

It's PAL, and I'm not sure if its quality is better or worse than the previous version I provided, but at least it's got potential.  And you probably can extract the audio from this one, as I had a great deal of trouble doing so with the other version.

HALT!  So because this free account wants to suck my money, I can't view the results because I started working on this more than 10 days ago.  I copied the survey and now have an alternate link.  Please no voting till I get you the alternate link.

Okay, sent out the correct link.  Let me know if you did not get the second email.

EDIT: As of writing this, three people have voted with the first link (four including me), but I'd have to pay to see your answers because I started creating this vote more than 10 days ago.  Again, PLEASE use the alternate link.  I'm sorry for the inconvenience and confusion, but I really want to have your vote.

Sorry folks.  I got a little excited with the posting of the the Interactive Board Game video, and I forgot the rules.  Moth3r caught three of my posts, but I corrected the fourth.

I just want to make a point here.  We have already voted to put the funeral pyre last.  This means that Ben and Yoda (and possibly Anakin) will be seen before that, rather than after (or perhaps we'll just have to cut that part, but hear me out).  I really feel pretty strongly that if we want to see the Force ghosts, part of the conclusion would involve putting Anakin at the pyre scene.  The reason for this is because it leaves Luke ready for closure.  If he sees the ghosts including his father, then burns his father's armor and/or body, it seems like he's already had the closure and the scene is redundant.  If we simply show Ben and Yoda, he feels some closure but still feels some emotional weight.  But at the fire when he sees his father, he and the audience feel satisfied.  That's the way I see things, and I want to put in that plug before the voting gets too far along.

darth_ender said:

I just want to make a point here.  We have already voted to put the funeral pyre last.  This means that Ben and Yoda (and possibly Anakin) will be seen before that, rather than after (or perhaps we'll just have to cut that part, but hear me out).  I really feel pretty strongly that if we want to see the Force ghosts, part of the conclusion would involve putting Anakin at the pyre scene.  The reason for this is because it leaves Luke ready for closure.  If he sees the ghosts including his father, then burns his father's armor and/or body, it seems like he's already had the closure and the scene is redundant.  If we simply show Ben and Yoda, he feels some closure but still feels some emotional weight.  But at the fire when he sees his father, he and the audience feel satisfied.  That's the way I see things, and I want to put in that plug before the voting gets too far along.

For the record, I voted for removing the Anakin ghost altogether, but my second choice would be Anakin at the pyre. (And it would be Hayden, not Shaw [Sorry])

timdiggerm said:

Any idea why we can't see all three ghosts at the pyre? Luke sees the first two ghosts, lights the pyre, Anakin appears, they have their private Jedi Funeral.

That is something worth considering.  I wish I thought to include that in the vote.

Thanks for voting, all those who have so far.

So I quickly slapped together a bit of footage to illustrate how I think our ROTJ edit should end.  I want to make sure everyone can visualize what I am imagining, because I think it is quite moving.

http://www.4shared.com/video/DzIYUfHk/ROTJ_ideal_ending.html

My argument for Hayden:

1. At no point in any of the movies does Anakin look like Sebastian Shaw.

2. I think Anakin would want to look like how he did before he went to the dark side/was disfigured.

3. Brings the saga full circle by fitting with the PT.

The argument for Shaw (and why it's a bad one):

1. "Seb Shaw because that's how the original was," this is a fan edit, by nature things will be changed. How things were originally should have no bearing on the decision.

2. "I hate Hayden and the prequels," this is probably the main reason why people don't like the addition of Hayden, but I think it's stupid. To hate a 5 second shot because it reminds you of something you hate is just dumb to me. The shot of ghost Hayden is not the prequels, it's just a shot of ghost Hayden.

3. "The audience/Luke would be confused," this is incorrect. The confusion factor would be the same for both Hayden and Shaw. Like I said before, in none of the SW movies does Anakin look like Shaw. In AOTC and ROTS, Anakin looks like Hayden. So for those who have seen the prequels, there would be no confusion. For those that haven't, seeing Hayden would be just as confusing as seeing Shaw, which is to say, not confusing at all. It is VERY easy to infer who ghost Anakin is supposed to be, especially the ghost were to be placed at the funeral pyre instead.

So as you see, Hayden is the clear choice. Making the ghost Hayden, however, would upset a great many people. This is one of the many reasons why I think Anakin's ghost should not be in the film at all. Other reasons are:

1. I know Qui-Gon was able to discover the power beyond the grave, but for Kenobi and Yoda they needed to learn. It almost makes sense that they could have taught Anakin after he was dead, but then why didn't they teach the other dead Jedi? I feel I need to go with the PT explanation for Force ghosts. In the OT, Vader being a ghost is practically a continuity error. Many people thought that when Jedi die, they just become a ghost. This can't be correct though, because Obi-Wan says that he will become more powerful than Vader can possibly imagine. So Vader being a ghost is a little bit of a head scratcher. It is kind of an unexplained moment. Aalenfae said that when he's editing ROTS, he tries to get rid of anything that isn't explained in the movie. So I would do the same here.

2. The biggest reason why I'm against it is that if Anakin doesn't turn into a ghost, it makes his redemption much more bittersweet. When ROTJ ends, Vader's dead and you're actually sad. Then, oh wait a minute, ROTJ is a happy movie, now Vader's a ghost too! Vader was really evil at one time. I feel there needs to be a consequence for that. Having him be dead, and unable to find life after life, would be a much more poignant end to the saga. I think that the Star Wars series is too serious to simply cast the over-happy ending off as part of the fantasy. My biggest beef with ROTJ (and I'm not alone here) is that the movie is way too happy. Vader is EVIL for almost 4 movies. Consequence is necessary. That's why they killed him. Also, it gives the final conversation between Luke and Vader MUCH MORE meaning. I mean honestly, think of that conversation and then think about how Luke and Vader can talk again whenever they want. 

In the end though, I think the best compromise would be to put Hayden Anakin at the funeral pyre, only if he disappears shortly thereafter, signifying that he was redeemed, but is not allowed to remain among the living. 

darth_ender said:

I just want to make a point here.  We have already voted to put the funeral pyre last.  This means that Ben and Yoda (and possibly Anakin) will be seen before that, rather than after (or perhaps we'll just have to cut that part, but hear me out).  I really feel pretty strongly that if we want to see the Force ghosts, part of the conclusion would involve putting Anakin at the pyre scene.  The reason for this is because it leaves Luke ready for closure.  If he sees the ghosts including his father, then burns his father's armor and/or body, it seems like he's already had the closure and the scene is redundant.  If we simply show Ben and Yoda, he feels some closure but still feels some emotional weight.  But at the fire when he sees his father, he and the audience feel satisfied.  That's the way I see things, and I want to put in that plug before the voting gets too far along.

Shoot, I really prefer it the original way. I guess I'll just make my own remix after it's all done. :)

Not necessarily.  The votes aren't over, and it's actually pretty close at this point.  But if it doesn't go my way, I'd want a remix as well ;)

DominicCobb said:

 

1. "Seb Shaw because that's how the original was," this is a fan edit, by nature things will be changed. How things were originally should have no bearing on the decision.

2. "I hate Hayden and the prequels," this is probably the main reason why people don't like the addition of Hayden, but I think it's stupid. To hate a 5 second shot because it reminds you of something you hate is just dumb to me. The shot of ghost Hayden is not the prequels, it's just a shot of ghost Hayden.

 

3. "The audience/Luke would be confused," this is incorrect. The confusion factor would be the same for both Hayden and Shaw. Like I said before, in none of the SW movies does Anakin look like Shaw. In AOTC and ROTS, Anakin looks like Hayden. So for those who have seen the prequels, there would be no confusion. For those that haven't, seeing Hayden would be just as confusing as seeing Shaw, which is to say, not confusing at all. It is VERY easy to infer who ghost Anakin is supposed to be, especially the ghost were to be placed at the funeral pyre instead.

Well, in my case, this is not why I prefer Sebastian Shaw.  I actually enjoy the prequels, though not to the extent of the OT, which were clearly superior films.  My reasons are more along the lines of:

1. Anakin died a redeemed man.  His good self was his final self.  Older actors never look like their younger selves, so that doesn't bother me.  It simply makes sense that the final good Anakin is who we see.

2. As an example, we see a 900 year old Yoda and an elderly Alec Guiness as Force ghosts.  If there is vanity in the next life in the Star Wars universe, I imagine they'd want to be their younger selves just as much as Anakin would.  But they remain the older guys.

3. I'm not worried about audience confusion so much as I worry about Luke's confusion.  "Who was that guy?  He looks nothing like the guy I saw under the mask!"  It's true that Luke would probably figure it out better at the pyre, but you get my drift.  Luke saw an older Anakin and would recognize him.  HISHE kind of catches the gist of what I mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdukWtJwlPU.

4. I do think how it originally was should have some bearing, though it shouldn't be the only factor.  Nevertheless, I do feel it's more respectful for the original actor

With all that, I think aalenfae suggested a compromise long ago in showing an older Hayden.  This would be a potential compromise for me.  Also, it's not even the end of the world for me if young Hayden were the final ghost.  But to me it is far more logical to show Sebastian.

And I see your point about showing no Anakin at all.  It may not be theologically sound to show a man who lived most of his life in evil as being redeemed.  But it is just a film, and at the very end of the film we need some happy closure, I feel.  And like you said in your final sentence, if he disappears in the end, it could signify that he had a better fate than he would have had, but that he still doesn't get to remain among the living (and it does seem like his eternal fate isn't as great as it would have been when his ghost is at the pyre instead).  I would be interested in seeing an ending completely without Anakin's ghost, but I'm pretty sure I'd prefer to see some sort of redemption.

In another OT thread 'silverwheel' explained perfectly why it should be Sebastian Shaw, better than I ever could:

"It ruined one of the most powerful lessons of the series.  The ghost of Old Anakin symbolized that while he could not undo the many terrible things he had done, he could still make amends and seek forgiveness.  Old Anakin symbolized a wasted lifetime.  Hayden's ghost basically gives the character a free pass.  Plus, Old Anakin fits with what we had just seen in the movie - a tired old man trapped in an iron lung, desperately wanting to get out.  Now, in death, he has his release.  The notion that his ghost can just "go back" makes no sense, literally or metaphorically."

Hayden's ghost makes no sens if you did not see the PT.

We just saw Sebastian Shaw without the mask few scenes before. Even when I was 8 years old I recognized him at the end when he comes back as a ghost. In fact it was kind of gratifying for the kid I was to understand by himself that "oh, that's Vader the way he looks when he is good!" without explanations or dialogue.  Now if a young man's ghost would have appeared next to OB1 and Yoda I don't know what could have been my reaction, but I guess a big WTF?

This is probably the most intolerable change for me along with CG Jabba. Much more than who shot first anyway. Well, it is understandable if you watch the whole Saga from Episode 1 to 6, I can give you that. So this raise the question of: does this fanedit acknowledge the prequels? If yes, then I guess Hayden could stay, even if I'm against this. If not, then it NEEDS to go.

TMBTM said:

Hayden's ghost makes no sens if you did not see the PT.

We just saw Sebastian Shaw without the mask few scenes before. Even when I was 8 years old I recognized him at the end when he comes back as a ghost. In fact it was kind of gratifying for the kid I was to understand by himself that "oh, that's Vader the way he looks when he is good!" without explanations or dialogue.  Now if a young man's ghost would have appeared next to OB1 and Yoda I don't know what could have been my reaction, but I guess a big WTF?

This is probably the most intolerable change for me along with CG Jabba. Much more than who shot first anyway. Well, it is understandable if you watch the whole Saga from Episode 1 to 6, I can give you that. So this raise the question of: does this fanedit acknowledge the prequels? If yes, then I guess Hayden could stay, even if I'm against this. If not, then it NEEDS to go.

I suppose you COULD say that leaving Hayden in the shot makes sense if you're thinking of this as a six-film saga and allowing the OT to acknowledge the prequels, but silverwheel's take on this (quoted by daneditor above) is actually quite smart. As he says, Old Anakin fits with what we've just seen in the movie--it fits our ROTJ context. If Anakin is allowed to regress in years, then why not Yoda or Obi-Wan? We don't see a younger version of Yoda, nor do we see Ewan McGregor's Obi-Wan. Rather, the force ghosts of these characters reflect their appearances at the time of their respective deaths. Why should Anakin be any different?

I more or less agree with the silverwheel's statement.

But to play the devil's advocate:

(I'm only speaking through In Lucas's mind here...) The young ghost means that you look like when the "good" person in you died. BUT, we know Vader came "back from the dark side" at the end of the movie (hence the "return" of the title). So... does this means that the old dying Vader was a good man at the end of his life? I would say: yes and no. Yes, he brought "balance to the force" by "balancing" Palpy into the depth of the Death Star... but does this redeem a life of doing terrible things? No. So if we keep the "Lucas point of view" about Jedi's ghots, then it makes sens to have Hayden at the end of the movie, because Vader can't be redeem by one good move at the end of his life.

Of course that's a more cynical way to view things than the OUT, where it is implied that Vader, even with a life of being a "galactic vilain" could be redeemed by one good move. (something that I now find a bit odd, but that's just me).

It's a matter of point of view here. Both can be understandable to me. BUT what is not is seeing Hayden at the end of ROTJ if you did not see the prequels. Hence my question about the acknowledgment of the PT by this fanedit or not.

PS: hope I was clear, english is not my first language and this was a bit difficult to put out, lol...