Collaborative Fanediting: An ROTJ Proposition (BACK ON TRACK WITH EMANSWFAN AT THE HELM--SEE POST 1488 OR OP FOR A LINK!) — Page 43

Ron, this is your edit.  It's open to everyone.  Your ideas matter, and while I am pretty sure the first run will lead to a very similar story to the original, I hope it will expand from there.  Truthfully, I could see this edit being completed, and then several people using it as a base for further editing and more radical ideas.  I've really appreciated all your input, even the ideas that get shot down.  That is no empty compliment; I really mean it.

Harmy, I think the team wants to keep heroes alive in this version, but I say again, I hope this sprouts into numerous further projects, and while I ultimately chose to let Lando live, I really do hope an edit comes along where we get to see him dies as well.

So I'm nearly done with the script.  Maybe I'll have it ready today!  But I want to send something out there again for people to consider.  I thought the Eclipse would be fun to see bringing the Emperor, though it would have to be clear that it left the vicinity and would not fight in the battle.  Ronster agreed that it would be fun, but I think no one takes it seriously.  I'm wondering if now we should?  Should the Eclipse drop off the Emperor and then take off?

Isn't The Eclipse just a long Death Star anyway?

Why not have that being built and blown up instead of another ball like the first film?

That way comic fans could suffer...I mean enjoy (phew)...having the reborn Palpatine finally getting his completed big ship...then have it blow up...and then rebuilt again (doesn't blow up again after that?).

Well, I personally hate the Eclipse superlaser idea.  Frankly that was just idiotic.  But I like the design, and I find it reminiscent of terrestrial naval vessels.  It's more the visual I'm interest in than a plot device.

Harmy said:

Yeah, I don't think Lando should die in the final battle, I think Han should, Lando should die during the Sarlacc sequence. My idea (that just came to me) is this: They plant the explosives in the shield generator but they don't go off. If they don't blow up the shield, the fleet would be destroyed and everyone would die, so Han sacrifices himself and detonates the bomb manually. This could coincide with Luke hiding in the shadows refusing to fight Vader, and Luke could feel Han dying and it could be the trigger that makes him go after Vader, thus eliminating the need for Vader to talk about Luke's sister and thus enabling the removal of the whole stupid sister subplot.

But I understand it's probably pretty late now and it would also be hard to pull off (though not impossible).

I'd quite like to see this though I have to admit I thought it would be impossible without reshooting scenes.  I'm curious, how would you suggest pulling it off?

Sluggo said:

A thought on Jabba's palace.  Jabba's throne room is pretty gross for a throne room.  Sure, he is a Hutt, but I'd imagine his throne room looking more like a brothel or a boudoir.  In the movie, it looks more like a honky-tonk country/western bar.  

Personally I think it would be massively improved by making it more like a brothel or boudoir, though I have no idea how it would be done.

Bingowings said:

 

Why not have that being built and blown up instead of another ball like the first film?

Agreed.  I've always wanted the Death Star in Episode 4 to be the incompleted one and then for the Death Star in Episode 6 to be changed to anything other than a Death Star. 

I know a lot of voting has already been done and the majority of the really out there ideas have been voted down, but if someone were doing a more radical edit I think these would all be brilliant changes to make. 

Let's not kill people my inner-child would want alive, please. He's been through enough.

I too think that Jabba's palace should be more like an alien version of those sleazy palaces Frank Thring used to decadently recline in.

Ditch the song and bring on the dancing girls/boys/things/robots/holograms etc.

You could sample dancers from other films and adjust them to look alien or just throw a fantasy burlesque and poseathon night at a local club and film the results.

You could still have the band but they would be in the background with no song at all, just weird arabesque music.

MrInsaneA said:

Let's not kill people my inner-child would want alive, please. He's been through enough.

The only thing that worries me a little with an edit that is decided in this way is that if someone has a very radical idea then most people will generally vote it down because, by its very definition, doesn't mesh that well with that their own version might change.  Therefore, unless every radical suggestion is then backed up by a reasonably well executed demonstration which can convince people, they are almost always voted down. 

For example I put forward the idea of Yoda giving Luke his lightsaber crystal and then Luke building a new lightsaber.  Ron wanted a shorter version of this idea.  Because we both have our own vision of this scene which is different to the other's we naturally dislike the others a little.  Therefore, if it was only up to the two of us we would end up with either two distinct versions, one very conservative compromise, or no new version at all. 

The votes seem to suggest that when a change is suggested that isn't massively necessary to improve something but simply to try to put a different take on things it is voted down.  This is seen with the idea of Luke and Leia being siblings.  Some like it, some don't, but as there is a reasonable split these groups' votes will cancel out.  Another of Ron's suggestions was a more subtle change on this concept (where they are siblings, but Luke never tells Leia) but as the group who dislike the siblings story don't need this idea they will vote it down, and the group who like the siblings story don't see a need for it to be changed will vote it down.  This leaves this branch of the story left uneditted, but mostly because not everyone can agree. 

I hope Darth Ender knows I don't mean any disrespect by this because he has taken on a massive undertaking and he has been doing a fantastic job so he deserves the most respect for that.  But I would like to suggest that rather than the votes being a way to disregard some ideas and approve others it be used as a way of creating an order of ideas.  So for example we could have a shortlist of ideas which has received the most positive support.  Then from this list of say the three most popular, the editing team could decide which to work on first.  Eventually enough ideas would be completed to be pieced into an edit and this could be version 1.  However, as each component would be an isolated scene it could then be used as people see fit.  So for example a very popular idea such as new ships being added to the DS assault could be concentrated on first, then eventually maybe my idea of the new Dagobah scene would be picked up.  If (as the last vote suggested) people prefered my take on the scene than Ron's this could be completed, which could then be used by Ron, simply by cutting up the new scene to his shortened version, thus satisfying both views. 

I think if we focused efforts on this style of editing small bits at a time, rather than focussing on the film as a whole, we would see more progress made in smaller steps, and we wouldn't get weighed down in whether certain changes would alter the pace or whatever, because those choices would be down to individual editors.  Though I am not against a collaborative edit being made by voting in the way that has been happening, I think we should be planning the edit itself once we have some of the more popular ideas actually realised. 

I hope I don't sound like I am being negative with the way this thread has developed, because I honestly think it is the best idea on this site.  I just think it would grow and evolve much better as a collection of resources we create, which are then editted in a number of ways by a number of us, than simply by trying to find a route which satisfies as many as possible, because I fear we may be in danger of ending up with something that resembles the original much more closely than any of us really want, but we just couldn't agree enough on how we wanted it to differ.

Sorry for the long rant there and I hope I didn't offend anyone.  Thanks to anyone who read it all.

Johannus said:

MrInsaneA said:

Let's not kill people my inner-child would want alive, please. He's been through enough.

The only thing that worries me a little with an edit that is decided in this way is that if someone has a very radical idea then most people will generally vote it down because, by its very definition, doesn't mesh that well with that their own version might change.  Therefore, unless every radical suggestion is then backed up by a reasonably well executed demonstration which can convince people, they are almost always voted down. 

For example I put forward the idea of Yoda giving Luke his lightsaber crystal and then Luke building a new lightsaber.  Ron wanted a shorter version of this idea.  Because we both have our own vision of this scene which is different to the other's we naturally dislike the others a little.  Therefore, if it was only up to the two of us we would end up with either two distinct versions, one very conservative compromise, or no new version at all. 

The votes seem to suggest that when a change is suggested that isn't massively necessary to improve something but simply to try to put a different take on things it is voted down.  This is seen with the idea of Luke and Leia being siblings.  Some like it, some don't, but as there is a reasonable split these groups' votes will cancel out.  Another of Ron's suggestions was a more subtle change on this concept (where they are siblings, but Luke never tells Leia) but as the group who dislike the siblings story don't need this idea they will vote it down, and the group who like the siblings story don't see a need for it to be changed will vote it down.  This leaves this branch of the story left uneditted, but mostly because not everyone can agree. 

I hope Darth Ender knows I don't mean any disrespect by this because he has taken on a massive undertaking and he has been doing a fantastic job so he deserves the most respect for that.  But I would like to suggest that rather than the votes being a way to disregard some ideas and approve others it be used as a way of creating an order of ideas.  So for example we could have a shortlist of ideas which has received the most positive support.  Then from this list of say the three most popular, the editing team could decide which to work on first.  Eventually enough ideas would be completed to be pieced into an edit and this could be version 1.  However, as each component would be an isolated scene it could then be used as people see fit.  So for example a very popular idea such as new ships being added to the DS assault could be concentrated on first, then eventually maybe my idea of the new Dagobah scene would be picked up.  If (as the last vote suggested) people prefered my take on the scene than Ron's this could be completed, which could then be used by Ron, simply by cutting up the new scene to his shortened version, thus satisfying both views. 

I think if we focused efforts on this style of editing small bits at a time, rather than focussing on the film as a whole, we would see more progress made in smaller steps, and we wouldn't get weighed down in whether certain changes would alter the pace or whatever, because those choices would be down to individual editors.  Though I am not against a collaborative edit being made by voting in the way that has been happening, I think we should be planning the edit itself once we have some of the more popular ideas actually realised. 

I hope I don't sound like I am being negative with the way this thread has developed, because I honestly think it is the best idea on this site.  I just think it would grow and evolve much better as a collection of resources we create, which are then editted in a number of ways by a number of us, than simply by trying to find a route which satisfies as many as possible, because I fear we may be in danger of ending up with something that resembles the original much more closely than any of us really want, but we just couldn't agree enough on how we wanted it to differ.

Sorry for the long rant there and I hope I didn't offend anyone.  Thanks to anyone who read it all.

I suggested from the beggining that we have multiple versions of this edit, as to incorporate most of the ideas.....I'm for this idea.

Truthfully I am too.  I simply see the best way to do it is to focus on the least radical edit first, and when completed, continue with the idea and further enhance it.  I think focus should be used primarily on what is popular, and then further refining and radicalizing continue when v 1.0 is done.  Those are my thoughts.

EDIT: It occurs to me that while we already do have an existing ROTJ wishlist thread, perhaps a new thread could be started that documents actual specific ideas to be considered for v 2.0, just so we don't lose them.  Maybe that's too redundant, but it's just a thought.

darth_ender said:

It occurs to me that while we already do have an existing ROTJ wishlist thread, perhaps a new thread could be started that documents actual specific ideas to be considered for v 2.0, just so we don't lose them.  Maybe that's too redundant, but it's just a thought.

Couldn't we use the ideas lists you compiled for the votes for this?

Anyway just to try to contribute something constructive to this again I found some footage which could be useful.  I am thinking of when the Death Star fires at and destroys the ship with Madine onboard. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKETqaSvCo0&feature=youtu.be

If the ships could be changed successfully and a few shots of the weapon powering up or the shot of Madine or whatever, then I think this could be integrated nicely as additional footage. 

Johannus that was a really great post before and I really do not think you sound like your ranting It is a concern shared and as you said you will never please everyone no matter how hard you try.

I truly like your idea I think it's brilliant as I would not have bothered doing some work on it myself... Just to clarify with you I'm not against your expanded idea I just would not know how to execute it that is all.... I hope you liked what I did with the glow fx?

I wish you had a black glove on too if that was your hand in the footage lol

Somthing to bear in mind for version 1 or this edit...

The simplist of ideas are often the best

@Darth_Ender you have done an amazing job thus far and this is a suggestion for the final round of votes aswell as any new ideas that could be voted on there should perhaps be a multiple choice section to avoid conflicting ideas so perhaps you could use a site like this and make life a little bit easier on yourself.

http://pollcode.com/

there is others too I just put that site for an example

Say for instance there has to be some sort of craft to the script being essentially nailed down and final for MrInsaneA and the purging of any inconsistancies or conflicts in what has been voted and as Johannus has suggested there needs to be a little dictatorship also as you'll end up with a wishy washy not going in any particular direction as everyone has different ideas or there own.... Yes no and maybe cannot surfice in this regard and perhaps multiple choice is the way to nail via choices between rather than somone voting yes or no to everything.

a control method of you like...

For example Luke and Leia as siblings

Multiple choice options could be

1.Leave it unaltered

2.Remove it altogether

3.Have Obi-wan confirm Luke is leias sister remove the stupid jelousy from Han, Have Luke nearly tell Leia but keeps it a secret as obi-wan instructed, Vader finds out when leia gets shot in the arm while luke is onboard DSII It also triggers lukes rage ... Vader pleads with Luke on his deathscene "tell your sister...." Leia still does not know yet at the end but she realises she has some force powers

4. As above in option 3 but luke tells leia via telepathy after destruction of DSII she is his sister to reolve plot

THis type of vote also needs to be done with the Anakin force ghosts or complete removal to mention another 3 pronged scenario. you get the idea I'm sure as at the momment the voting is somewhat comprmised You could vote down all options or vote for all options without making a specific choice or direction to take.

I'm not saying the voting was not conclusive either I'm just saying use this tool for some things

darth_ender said:

Truthfully I am too.  I simply see the best way to do it is to focus on the least radical edit first, and when completed, continue with the idea and further enhance it.  I think focus should be used primarily on what is popular, and then further refining and radicalizing continue when v 1.0 is done.  Those are my thoughts.

EDIT: It occurs to me that while we already do have an existing ROTJ wishlist thread, perhaps a new thread could be started that documents actual specific ideas to be considered for v 2.0, just so we don't lose them.  Maybe that's too redundant, but it's just a thought.

Yes, yes, yes, and yes.

Bingowings said:

I too think that Jabba's palace should be more like an alien version of those sleazy palaces Frank Thring used to decadently recline in.

Ditch the song and bring on the dancing girls/boys/things/robots/holograms etc.

You could sample dancers from other films and adjust them to look alien or just throw a fantasy burlesque and poseathon night at a local club and film the results.

You could still have the band but they would be in the background with no song at all, just weird arabesque music.

I like the idea of changing Jabba's Palace to a something more like what Sluggo and Bingowings suggested.  I guess it could probably be edited in pretty believably, since that's what was done with the SE girls, as long as we make it keep a similar feel (changing the background, for instance).  If someone can find good footage, this would be a good research project.

Johannus said:

darth_ender said:

It occurs to me that while we already do have an existing ROTJ wishlist thread, perhaps a new thread could be started that documents actual specific ideas to be considered for v 2.0, just so we don't lose them.  Maybe that's too redundant, but it's just a thought.

Couldn't we use the ideas lists you compiled for the votes for this?

Anyway just to try to contribute something constructive to this again I found some footage which could be useful.  I am thinking of when the Death Star fires at and destroys the ship with Madine onboard. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKETqaSvCo0&feature=youtu.be

If the ships could be changed successfully and a few shots of the weapon powering up or the shot of Madine or whatever, then I think this could be integrated nicely as additional footage. 

I never felt you were being negative.  I truly agree, many of these very good ideas should be kept and can be used later.  I personally am feeling very overwhelmed at the present, but if someone can compile all the good radical ideas and either make a new thread, or at least make a single post here that can be linked in the first post, that would be nice.  It'd be a shame to lose many of the ideas (for instance, I really did like Ronster's opening idea, even showing a Mon Cal cruiser at the start instead of a Star Destroyer).  I just can't handle it right now.

Ronster said:

Johannus that was a really great post before and I really do not think you sound like your ranting It is a concern shared and as you said you will never please everyone no matter how hard you try.

I truly like your idea I think it's brilliant as I would not have bothered doing some work on it myself... Just to clarify with you I'm not against your expanded idea I just would not know how to execute it that is all.... I hope you liked what I did with the glow fx?

I wish you had a black glove on too if that was your hand in the footage lol

Somthing to bear in mind for version 1 or this edit...

The simplist of ideas are often the best

@Darth_Ender you have done an amazing job thus far and this is a suggestion for the final round of votes aswell as any new ideas that could be voted on there should perhaps be a multiple choice section to avoid conflicting ideas so perhaps you could use a site like this and make life a little bit easier on yourself.

http://pollcode.com/

there is others too I just put that site for an example

Say for instance there has to be some sort of craft to the script being essentially nailed down and final for MrInsaneA and the purging of any inconsistancies or conflicts in what has been voted and as Johannus has suggested there needs to be a little dictatorship also as you'll end up with a wishy washy not going in any particular direction as everyone has different ideas or there own.... Yes no and maybe cannot surfice in this regard and perhaps multiple choice is the way to nail via choices between rather than somone voting yes or no to everything.

a control method of you like...

For example Luke and Leia as siblings

Multiple choice options could be

1.Leave it unaltered

2.Remove it altogether

3.Have Obi-wan confirm Luke is leias sister remove the stupid jelousy from Han, Have Luke nearly tell Leia but keeps it a secret as obi-wan instructed, Vader finds out when leia gets shot in the arm while luke is onboard DSII It also triggers lukes rage ... Vader pleads with Luke on his deathscene "tell your sister...." Leia still does not know yet at the end but she realises she has some force powers

4. As above in option 3 but luke tells leia via telepathy after destruction of DSII she is his sister to reolve plot

THis type of vote also needs to be done with the Anakin force ghosts or complete removal to mention another 3 pronged scenario. you get the idea I'm sure as at the momment the voting is somewhat comprmised You could vote down all options or vote for all options without making a specific choice or direction to take.

I'm not saying the voting was not conclusive either I'm just saying use this tool for some things

All very good suggestions, Ronster.  It didn't even occur to me to use polling code from another site.  It would be much easier, though my biggest worry is people submitting multiple votes.  I'd have to make sure a person could vote only once.  Gotta run, but I'll comment more on this later.  This would certainly save me a lot of work.

Here is a little clip I put together to further demonstrate my idea from earlier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qZWAz5lu0U&feature=youtu.be

If done well, that could be an interesting effect.  Only concern is that it makes the superlaser attack a little less dramatic.  It would probably have to hit multiple ships, I think.

jonathan7 said:

I apologies for having not been around much, and also if this has been mentioned put in action (the thread is now 234 pages long...) But a quick query about Imperial forces that has always bothered me... The Empire has the superior forces so even after the Death Start destruction they should win, would it be possible to show them turning on each other after the Emporer's death? I.e. different commanders trying to assume control and then engaging each other?

Only if you call it Episode VII.

I hear you.  The movie only has about 15 minutes left by then.  I just don't know if there is enough time to give the idea the attention it deserves.

Yeah, while an intriguing idea, it would probably be too distracting from the real story.  We're glad to see you commenting here again, jonathan7.

So I'm obviously not done with the script...in fact I haven't touched it today.  And now I have to work tomorrow, something I generally try to avoid (I make my own schedule).  I've just been so very busy.  But I am pretty sure I can have it ready by tomorrow evening.