Collaborative Fanediting: An ROTJ Proposition (BACK ON TRACK WITH EMANSWFAN AT THE HELM--SEE POST 1488 OR OP FOR A LINK!) — Page 4

timdiggerm said:

Although it should be pointed out that in Spence's Special Features, he talks about the idea of leaving Fett in, having Han intentionally hit his jetpack, not showing him actually falling into the Sarlaac's maw, and then showing him regaining consciousness and watching the Skiff fly away at the end. He left it out because his edit became much more Luke-centric, but I do like the idea.

I have worked quite a bit on ideas yesterday and today already for ROTJ , but my ponderings on the matter so far have him Fireing a flamethrower at the opposite sail barge as it should be :)  getting hit by mistake, falling in the sarlac, after it burps have him fly out shooting (this is a shot from ROTS Jango Roto in and recolour) and luke will deflect the lasers and chop him in half as he comes to Land on the end of the skiff. I'll do a mock up of shots another day.

Would that make his death good enough for you?

Please check my 3rd Act *Edit*

http://www.mediafire.com/?u2m3nkdcb6hazr4

Ronster, I personally feel that your ideas are interesting, but I think you may be overreaching at this point.  I feel we should start with a more grounded edit first, stick largely faithful to the original story, and as was pointed out before, we have easily accessible building blocks for future edits.  I think ROTJ has many good elements already existing, and that some minor alterations could go a long way to drastically improve the story.  Many of your ideas can be used, but I hope I don't offend you when I say that currently I'm thinking of more basic changes.

That said, I have some good news.  Though more elaborate, I already had a good idea of how I want the final act of the story to move, but was stuck on the first act.  It's really far less complex, but I was having some writer's block as how we should provide the opening crawl and several scenes.  I had some great ideas that I think could start the movie slightly slower, but then provide fewer moments of slow exposition towards the middle, moving the plot faster overall.  I intend to post the first portion of the script today with some commentary on why I changed certain things, plus a few minor special effects and musical suggestions.

Speaking of those sorts of things, while I intend to make suggestions, I don't want to include everything in the script.  I want to leave that to our CGI wizards and suggest that they refer to the wishlist for most ideas.  While I do include a few because I feel strongly about them and no other reason, most I include simply because they may be essential for plot changes.

I'll try to get that first part of the script up today :)

darth_ender said:

Ronster, I personally feel that your ideas are interesting, but I think you may be overreaching at this point.  I feel we should start with a more grounded edit first, stick largely faithful to the original story, and as was pointed out before, we have easily accessible building blocks for future edits.  I think ROTJ has many good elements already existing, and that some minor alterations could go a long way to drastically improve the story.  Many of your ideas can be used, but I hope I don't offend you when I say that currently I'm thinking of more basic changes.

That said, I have some good news.  Though more elaborate, I already had a good idea of how I want the final act of the story to move, but was stuck on the first act.  It's really far less complex, but I was having some writer's block as how we should provide the opening crawl and several scenes.  I had some great ideas that I think could start the movie slightly slower, but then provide fewer moments of slow exposition towards the middle, moving the plot faster overall.  I intend to post the first portion of the script today with some commentary on why I changed certain things, plus a few minor special effects and musical suggestions.

Speaking of those sorts of things, while I intend to make suggestions, I don't want to include everything in the script.  I want to leave that to our CGI wizards and suggest that they refer to the wishlist for most ideas.  While I do include a few because I feel strongly about them and no other reason, most I include simply because they may be essential for plot changes.

I'll try to get that first part of the script up today :)

Did you check the link? I can see that you did not.... If you are going to palm me off before even looking as I have given you the courtesy of then yes I would consider that rude considering it is meant to be a collaboration and that I have made an effort to include your ideas and other peoples, The 1st Act is the Hard part IMO

Please do get your script up... I am not trying to get in before you or anything it is fair to show you then you show me? And go from there

I honestly am not trying to overreach here, I had some Inspiration last night and thought I would share it, I had a big night out on Saturday, christmas party and was hungover and could not sleep last night, so thought I would focus on somthing that does not mean anyone has to agree with anything I do or say, or even consider using my ideas I already told you this    

mabey you would even enjoy what i did or it might inspire you... ever thought of that.

If it is not a collaboration then you should probably change the title of the thread

Ronster said:

darth_ender said:

Ronster, I personally feel that your ideas are interesting, but I think you may be overreaching at this point.  I feel we should start with a more grounded edit first, stick largely faithful to the original story, and as was pointed out before, we have easily accessible building blocks for future edits.  I think ROTJ has many good elements already existing, and that some minor alterations could go a long way to drastically improve the story.  Many of your ideas can be used, but I hope I don't offend you when I say that currently I'm thinking of more basic changes.

That said, I have some good news.  Though more elaborate, I already had a good idea of how I want the final act of the story to move, but was stuck on the first act.  It's really far less complex, but I was having some writer's block as how we should provide the opening crawl and several scenes.  I had some great ideas that I think could start the movie slightly slower, but then provide fewer moments of slow exposition towards the middle, moving the plot faster overall.  I intend to post the first portion of the script today with some commentary on why I changed certain things, plus a few minor special effects and musical suggestions.

Speaking of those sorts of things, while I intend to make suggestions, I don't want to include everything in the script.  I want to leave that to our CGI wizards and suggest that they refer to the wishlist for most ideas.  While I do include a few because I feel strongly about them and no other reason, most I include simply because they may be essential for plot changes.

I'll try to get that first part of the script up today :)

Did you check the link? I can see that you did not.... If you are going to palm me off before even looking as I have given you the courtesy of then yes I would consider that rude considering it is meant to be a collaboration and that I have made an effort to include your ideas and other peoples, The 1st Act is the Hard part IMO

Please do get your script up... I am not trying to get in before you or anything it is fair to show you then you show me? And go from there

I honestly am not trying to overreach here, I had some Inspiration last night and thought I would share it, I had a big night out on Saturday, christmas party and was hungover and could not sleep last night, so thought I would focus on somthing that does not mean anyone has to agree with anything I do or say, or even consider using my ideas I already told you this    

mabey you would even enjoy what i did or it might inspire you... ever thought of that.

If it is not a collaboration then you should probably change the title of the thread

I was watching ROTJ on Spike last night and kinda came up with an order for the battle. I skimmed through your edit and it seems to be roughly the same set up that was in my mind. I haven't actually watched it yet, so I don't know how it works thematically though.

And I think you're being a bit hard on darth_ender. Some of your ideas are pretty radical and might not even be possible. Such as your elaborate plan for Boba's demise, which I feel is what he was referring to when he was talking about overreaching.

Seriously, I meant no offense though I was pretty sure I might come off that way.  I am referring to things such as Boba Fett's death which I simply don't see as possible, at least at the present.  Perhaps, as we move further along, such things could be integrated.  Also, I was trying to make clear that our visions will differ greatly and that hopefully we can come to common goal and go from there.  Then, if people wanted, we could take our finished product as use it as a base for further and more radical editing.  If you found a way to include things like Boba's flamethrower and death and such, then that would be great as a next step.  I'm not trying to push anyone around, but I'm simply trying to suggest that we keep this somewhat simpler for now.  When I said "overreaching" I did not mean getting out of line.  I meant you were trying to reach for a more complex idea than I think is currently possible, or at least is currently wise.

I briefly did look at your space battle edit, but I was at work and could not take a lengthy look.  I promise I will watch it when I can and perhaps use some of your ideas.

I don't want to be the boss here.  But I volunteered to do the script, and when it's done, I want suggestions on further changes.  My comments were meant to direct your energy to continued creative thinking, but keep it a bit more grounded, and then when I put out my version of the script, we can start adding other ideas.  Believe me, I'm leaving plenty open for others' input.

Yes sorry I get carried away... Look the Idea is to hammer it out together, just because I put somthing on the table, does not mean I am telling anyone it should be anyway in particular, we should have a common goal and that is to fix ROTJ...

I'm sorry if I sound like i am being hard but i am a fair person, and don't have any hard feelings only that I wish to inspire and be inspired in turn.

Hope you enjoy what I did, if not that's fine by me but lets work it out.

I hope that makes things a bit clearer.

darth_ender said:

Seriously, I meant no offense though I was pretty sure I might come off that way.  I am referring to things such as Boba Fett's death which I simply don't see as possible, at least at the present.  Perhaps, as we move further along, such things could be integrated.  Also, I was trying to make clear that our visions will differ greatly and that hopefully we can come to common goal and go from there.  Then, if people wanted, we could take our finished product as use it as a base for further and more radical editing.  If you found a way to include things like Boba's flamethrower and death and such, then that would be great as a next step.  I'm not trying to push anyone around, but I'm simply trying to suggest that we keep this somewhat simpler for now.  When I said "overreaching" I did not mean getting out of line.  I meant you were trying to reach for a more complex idea than I think is currently possible, or at least is currently wise.

I briefly did look at your space battle edit, but I was at work and could not take a lengthy look.  I promise I will watch it when I can and perhaps use some of your ideas.

I don't want to be the boss here.  But I volunteered to do the script, and when it's done, I want suggestions on further changes.  My comments were meant to direct your energy to continued creative thinking, but keep it a bit more grounded, and then when I put out my version of the script, we can start adding other ideas.  Believe me, I'm leaving plenty open for others' input.

No probs... I don't want to be the boss either... Bobba fett, I have not even begun to look at, but the only thing that I can understand is that the first part of the sequence where his gun gets chopped off will be more close to his last point in the movie as I am seeing it. And I cannot be bothered either today to try to figure this puzzle out... I hope you enjoy what I did, and it helps you with your script of either what to do or what not to do.

Like you said the CGI Wiz Kids will dictate what can and cannot work, with any radical ideas I will try to provide possible formats / shot inspiration that can be manipulated / composited to reach the end result of any idea anyone possibly wanted to achieve. You will need to cheat to fix Bobba Fett in ROTJ or cheat by removing him altogether as we have seen already cthat an be done but personally I would rather see him die lol

I hope you understand me now,

I think it does.  I know it's easy to offend over the Internet, as I've unintentionally offended and been offended many times.  I didn't originally think I'd have to take on script-fixing, but I realized that with so many different ideas, someone had to at least hammer out a basic outline.  That's when I decided to change the script myself.  I figure once we have a good basic idea, we can then debate the extra things with greater direction and productivity.  For instance, if we decide to do a story that could not possibly have any part take place on Coruscant, then we no longer need to debate Coruscant storylines.  But if we determine that it can be done and would in fact improve the story, then we can go from there.  I'm really just trying to get some basic direction.  Again, I'm sorry I originally offended you.

timdiggerm said:

Although it should be pointed out that in Spence's Special Features, he talks about the idea of leaving Fett in, having Han intentionally hit his jetpack, not showing him actually falling into the Sarlaac's maw, and then showing him regaining consciousness and watching the Skiff fly away at the end. He left it out because his edit became much more Luke-centric, but I do like the idea.

Did I mention I like this idea too?  I still wonder if that's acceptable to leave him alive and never wrap up that loose thread or if it would be possible to finish him off later in the film.

One thing I would really like to hear is why/how to use Coruscant.  I personally see it as needlessly complicated without adding much to the story.  But I would like to hear more ideas on how to make it work.  I do suggest, at least at this stage, that we keep things fairly close to the original story, so without some drastic rewriting, how could we include Coruscant (if you are a fan of the idea)?

well it's a 33.3333 recuring leave him in, take him out or kill him differently beacuse his death is the issue thats up for debate oh and the flirting scene other than that he is one of the best star wars characters ever.

If you take him out you don't see bobba fett :(

If you keep him alive or keep it the same then it's neutral :i

and if you kill him differently then people still might not be happy with it :( or they might think it is much better :)

it's a big deal for such a small part of the movie but thats the facts unfortunatly

I started thinking that it should stay on DSII please watch the link, and give your thoughts like you said you will loose the tension being so far away. I like the Idea but it's a massive undertaking as Mithrandir said and does not really add anything to the story. Only that it would be a fitting place for the final duel.

Riots on Corusant is stupidly difficult to achieve also, to make this whole plotline be feasible.

timdiggerm said:

For some reason, I had envisioned the Bothan Opening Sequence as taking place on Corouscant.

As for why: Helps tie the saga together. Helps make the closing shots of the riots a little more sensible.

how do they escape? I like the idea but how....We know lots of them died.

Either the information should be stolen from Coruscant while the Death Star and Endor are far away, or else they shouldn't have to steal anything but a glance of the Death Star from a ship near Coruscant.  It would seem kind of silly to sneak onto Coruscant to steal information about the Death Star that can be seen hanging there in the sky.  If we were to make such a scene, I think it would be best to keep the Death Star away from the general populace (it is a secret construction project after all) while the Rebel spies managed to steal the info from Coruscant.

Recycled EP IV Idea or suggest a new sequence

I suggested Kamino only because it has water on it and would be easy to show somthing crashing down into water say an escape pod and ambiguous aswell as easier to find footage for.

Are there any other planets that would fit the bill that have alot of water....

Otherwise escape PODS crashing through buildings on corusant?!? that is nobody escaping Unless there is another way to do the actual escape sequence.

Kamino suitable? as I don't know the full EU history of things?

Corusant definatley more suitable but how do they escape.....and get away with the plans...Without having to Dress people up as Bothans and film them.

How much water on Endor? Stolen from the Dish / Bunker?

like in Episode IV sand is like water and makes things harder to trace, better chance of escape.

"Alot of Bothans Died to bring us this infomation" well lets blow up a Bothan frigate then.....

It probably was stolen from Endor as that would make Vader going out to DSII in the wake of these events and the Emperor having to personally oversee the final stages of construction feasible.

Here is part 1 of my edited script.  It leaves a lot open for further suggestions, particularly during the whole Jabba subplot.  I really feel like I may have grabbed a good emotional formula with this, so consider carefully the flow before being too harsh or suggesting something too radical.  I personally like the slower intro, but as all OT movies start with bad guy ships, perhaps that spy scene could work out without disrupting the flow I've tried to create.  This starts with Dagobah, moves to the Death Star and Vader, moves to Tatooine and Han's rescue, and ends with Luke's X-wing and the Millennium Falcon parting.  I tried to add some colors and comments to make changes clearer (so you don't have to read the whole thing) as well as include commentary on the side.  Hope this is a worthwhile read.  There are no immensely drastic changes, but I think it alters the story and the mood in a way that I like.

http://www.4shared.com/office/imvWDYgy/ROTJ_script_edited_part_1.html?

Comments and suggestions are quite welcome.

EDIT: I also included some musical suggestions and meant to include more.  I also meant to include some pictures, taken from the wishlist, but I forgot.  Oh well, you still get a good sense of what I'm hoping for thus far.

MrInsaneA said:

darth_ender said:

^This is why I feel the script needs additional ships to be involved in the attack.  I think if several capital ships engage in the battle, focusing their fire on the bridge section, then two fighters being the straws that broke the camel's back might be more believable.  Perhaps if it were made clearer that they were firing concussion missiles rather than simple laser blasts (what it looks like to me), then it might also come off better.

I agree about the lost Rebel footage and I'm going to try to include as much as possible, probably having to do some rough cuts with my Windows Live Movie Maker software as a template for those with the better toys.

I'm personally not a big fan of Coruscant being a significant plot point, both because of what I perceive as unrealistic (let's blow up the capital to stop the riots) and also it just doesn't seem to make sense story-wise.  It just seems like people are fishing for something more exotic.  If Endor orbits Coruscant and it is essentially background, that would be visually interesting, but I can't see a logical story reason to include it without some drastic rewriting of the whole movie.

I know I'm a nerd, but I didn't know what song was Across the Stars till tonight when I finally looked it up.  It's a pretty piece and would be neat to include somewhere, though the only place that seems truly fitting might be where Luke and Leia are talking about their mother.

A song I feel we might want to consider weaving into this movie somewhere might be the Death Star theme from A New Hope.  It essentially served as the bad guy song for the first movie, and I personally find it powerful and intimidating.  Perhaps some dramatic Death Star II reveal could include this piece.

Sorry to take so long on this early step folks.  I'll get it done soon.

I feel very strongly about what I'm about to say, so bear with me here:

I feel like ROTJ should feature a LOT of callbacks to previous themes in the Saga, seeing how it's the final film.  Some ideas I was thinking of were:

1. Duel of the Fates playing during parts of the space battle.

2. Across the Stars playing once or twice during very quiet moments pertaining to Luke/Vader and Luke/Leia/Mom

3. The Death Star theme, as previously mentioned. 

Anybody think this is a good idea? And if so, is there any other pieces of music you feel should be integrated?

I personally like your suggestions, especially number 3 ;)

Ronster, I still haven't gotten around to your video, but I think I should be able to tonight.  I again want to reiterate that I like a lot of your ideas.  I truly like the Boba Fett death idea in particular.  I was thinking, perhaps we could get this collaborative edit released in various forms.  Those interested could make a "Mark I" edit.  Then those with even more ambition and radical ideas could do a "Mark II" using the existing changes to help, then a "Mark II" and so on till this idea dries up.

Minor nitpicks with the crawl:
It seems a little repetitive - the rebel alliance is already doomed, but the death star will spell certain doom, and two words are in all caps (Death Star and Sullust, which doesn't seem as important)

I'm so glad you've made this script. Your vision for this edit aligns perfectly with mine. Also, the crawl is great. 

I thought of a solution for the Rancor earlier today. In the movie, Luke is looking around, and there's a shot of the door panel. I suggest there is instead a shot of the door itself. Then, we have a shot of Luke closing his eyes, and then the door shuts.

I figured the crawl could use a little work.  Thanks for the suggestion.  I'm not sure what determines if something gets capitalized.  These are the only words capitalized in all six films:

ARMY OF THE REPUBLIC: AOTC
DEATH STAR: ANH (not in ROTJ)
GALACTIC EMPIRE: ROTJ

So I suppose I wouldn't capitalize anything, or maybe just Death Star.  As I keep working on the script I'll make a few changes to this early section including altering the capitalization.

You are right about the Death Star theme.  It's also used as a motif when Rebel ships enter the Death Star II superstructure.  Nevertheless, I personally feel it would be a dramatic intro to the Death Star as it was when the Falcon is tractored into the DSI (not the true intro, but really the first time we get a scope of how big the thing is).  I don't know how well it would mesh with the Imperial March either, but if the two could be made to weave together, I think it'd be a nice touch.  But maybe I'm wrong.

Interesting suggestion, Cobb.  What do others think about getting Luke to shut the Rancor gate?  Thanks for the kind words.  I guess great minds think alike ;)

Who here does a good Luke Skywalker impression? :V

I may do a decent one, but I'm not sure.  I actually recorded a few voices on my mp3 player and can upload them tomorrow for your critiquing.  I hope someone could do a better Luke though.