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Collaborative 35mm restoration proposition — Page 3

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If you could get this to work, Blue Harvest - crowd sourcing dirt and scratch repair, this could open the door for many wonderful things.

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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Blue_Harvest said:

  • Validation will be done by trusted users, which will be able to see the original and the modified file at the same time (in a screenshotcomparison.com way)

I’m wondering if a good starting point would be to build a clip database of complete shots from the major prior home video releases for reference. Kinda like Blue_Harvest’s screenshotcomparison idea or Harmy’s screenshot galleries, but not necessarily limited to a single frame of a RAW film scan and its restoration-in-progress. I’m thinking of individual clips that can be played, looped, frozen, reverse-played, and slo-mo’d, etc. and can be viewed in 1-up, 2-up, 4-up, etc. configurations. Cut, Wipe, and Transparency controls can enable the user to examine registration or digital alteration differences.

For instance, there would be any given SCENE#:FRAME# (or similar identifying nomenclature) for a shot in the film that is being referenced. (BTW, are slated scene numbers known for every shot in these films?) For this example I’ll choose the shot in Return Of The Jedi when Boba Fett gets clobbered by Han Solo on the Skiff and his rocket pack misfires. We know this shot was changed for 2011 Blu-Ray. The references to compare might be a inverse-telecine’d Pan+Scan Laserdisc rip, the GOUT DVD rip, the 2004 SE Broadcast capture, and the 2011 BR. The user or group could dynamically remove or add additional versions for the comparison, such as a RAW scan and a restoration work-in-progress. A 4-up view could look similar to Harmy’s comparison but such that the clip could actually be played (in synchronization or separately), as described above: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipM9HqKhDhHT1O6CDfGmH44R1AduXqfpFjOqiMHVX3OnWusb-fZ_RoPKjAcO8Jcgsg/photo/AF1QipOgOrVI4-ndqRB8QWhESeWlR96nGf52R9aDrmsa?key=blBhRV9DNmsxaVlMdUpFYjYxN3FISk5Ma2xfQ293

Image viewing size, dynamic scaling, and colorspace conversions would have to be taken into account due to significant differences in pixel dimensions, aspect ratios, letterboxing, and video standards of the various versions. It would be helpful to be able to add the preceding and subsequent shot to the clip comparison. Missing frames from one release vs. another can be easily identified and SCENE MISSING: FRAMEXX title cards could be toggled over blank frames. Theatrical vs. Special Edition and Blu-Ray additions could be similarly synced, though wholes sections which don’t have an exact equivalent such as “Lapti Nek” vs. “Jedi Rocks” might need to be handled separately.

I have no idea if a web interface could be easily developed that would enable what I’ve described. It would probably be pretty difficult, and I have doubts that a central read-only server could work in realtime for lossless remote playback. Perhaps user caching would make it feasible. If a web interface is unworkable, then it might be more reasonable to have a private server with lossless clips of each version of each shot, that can be downloaded on an individual basis and loaded, stacked, and synced into a standard NLE timeline.

I know a lot of the folks here on OT have worked very hard to capture all the picture detail possible from old interlaced video releases, and spent ages trying to calculate reverse-pulldown patterns until their eyes crossed, etc. Maybe this is one way that their hard work could be showcased.

If your crop is water, what, exactly, would you dust your crops with?

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So the collaboration tool I’m working with Blue_Harvest on is pretty simple and not a QC nightmare.

Our restoration will only have skilled hands involved.

The tool gives people the ability to: load a frame, draw a rectangle around a region of the frame, and (optionally) write a note to associate with that rectangle. This information will be stored in a database: loaded at the time the frame is viewed and stored with changes back in when the next frame is requested. This gives people the ability to see the notes everyone else has taken in order to aid in collaboration and not duplicate work.

The idea is that the skilled hands working on the restoration will be able to access these rectangles and notes while working to see if they missed something or if they removed something they shouldn’t have, such as compositing anomalies that were present on all '77 prints.

Additionally, by getting more eyes on the scan, we hope that people skilled in Photoshop will be able to pick up some terrible frames with very heavy amounts of damage (e.g., a huge tear, etc.), request the raw frame and the few around it from me, and work on doing the hard work that PFClean simply can’t handle.

One other thing to note is that this tool will help people researching the film. It gets the community together to take a look and help out, if they can.

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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Sounds like a very good plan. Is there intention to do this kind of annotation for only the raw scan, or for intermediate stages of dirt cleaning?

request the raw frame and the few around it from me, and work on doing the hard work that PFClean simply can’t handle.

Glue frames are a big perpetrator here. The glue itself is often not a big issue, unless there is major movement in that part of the frame. But it frequently throws the color and focus off for the shot and induces warping.

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towne32 said:

Sounds like a very good plan. Is there intention to do this kind of annotation for only the raw scan, or for intermediate stages of dirt cleaning?

We’ll start with a lossy encode (e.g., max JPEG of all frames rendered at something like 2K) of the raw scan and see where things go from there. An intermediate instance would make sense, but we might not even get enough people involved in the first place, so we should feel it out first.

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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 (Edited)

Ah, okay. So this is going to be for more major/unique forms of damage rather than standard emulsion scratches/dirt? For the latter, it would be helpful to use the tool to point out particles (from explosions, etc) and other artifacts that should not be cleaned. i.e., overall, features that one could be likely to miss.

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This is a great simple way to get people involved and help the professional restorers with the more painstaking, time-sucking tasks of restoration. Love it!

Glad you thought of damage that should be there. My first thought were the black specks in the cave in Empire Strikes Back. How will people tell the good dirt from the bad…? I see that’s been thought of.

So what will the first project be?

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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I’ve never tried my hand at PFClean, but I could maybe attempt to learn. But I consider myself to be very skilled with Photoshop (I use it professionally on a day to day basis) so I’d be more than willing to help out with that stuff.

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Any board members here keep in touch with the former members of Team Negative1? Before their disbanding they had acquired Fuji prints of ESB and were going to start working on them. It would be nice if through those connections you could retrieve the prints and restore them, plus the Technicolor print of SW but from what I read that one will be a lot harder to come by.

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fmalover said:

Any board members here keep in touch with the former members of Team Negative1? Before their disbanding they had acquired Fuji prints of ESB and were going to start working on them. It would be nice if through those connections you could retrieve the prints and restore them, plus the Technicolor print of SW but from what I read that one will be a lot harder to come by.

Here’s what we have: http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/794933

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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That’s a lot of stuff you’ve got to work with. Sounds like sources aren’t a problem if Poita already has all those scans.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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Who has poita designated to work on them?

she/her
mwah

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clutchins said:

Who has poita designated to work on them?

I’ve put a team together. We’re still working out the details.

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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How about a Grindhouse STAR WARS from a Technicolor print while the clean up and restoration takes place?? wink wink 😉

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Holy carp! I never realized until now they were the same actor.

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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Cool idea.

I was just thinking that ideally, each person should get at least three consecutive frames to work on at a time rather than just a single frame. Often there are things that look like dirt on a single frame, and it is only when you go backward and forward that you realize it is actually part of the shot. This will prevent things from disappearing and reappearing. It will also allow people to copy pixels from nearby frames to do a temporal fix rather than just cloning nearby pixels to make a spacial fix.

TheStarWarsTrilogy.com.
The007Dossier.com.
Donations always welcome: Paypal | Bitcoin: bc1qzr9ejyfpzm9ea2dglfegxzt59tys3uwmj26ytj

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Well, I think you’ll see from more recent posts that the open/shared aspect is for annotation. But yes, that’s a very difficult thing to do without adjacent frames (a starfield would be impossible).

And certainly for actual cleaning you need surrounding frames. PFclean’s spacial predictions are surprisingly clever, but the real power comes from temporal patching. Plus, as I’m sure you know, having the entire shot allows you apply other tools like deflicker, etc.

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towne32 said:

Well, I think you’ll see from more recent posts that the open/shared aspect is for annotation. But yes, that’s a very difficult thing to do without adjacent frames (a starfield would be impossible).

And certainly for actual cleaning you need surrounding frames. PFclean’s spacial predictions are surprisingly clever, but the real power comes from temporal patching. Plus, as I’m sure you know, having the entire shot allows you apply other tools like deflicker, etc.

Sorry, missed that post. But even so, seeing three consecutive frames at a time may reduce the number of False flags.

TheStarWarsTrilogy.com.
The007Dossier.com.
Donations always welcome: Paypal | Bitcoin: bc1qzr9ejyfpzm9ea2dglfegxzt59tys3uwmj26ytj

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Definitely. I don’t know what the plan is for how many frames or shots someone would get.

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camroncamera said:

For instance, there would be any given SCENE#:FRAME# (or similar identifying nomenclature) for a shot in the film that is being referenced. (BTW, are slated scene numbers known for every shot in these films?)

Seems to answer my question:

http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Shot-List-Spreadsheet-v0505-6-films-publicly-editable/id/13403

none said:

This is a thread for discussion of spreadsheets which list every shot in the Star Wars movies.  After each shot gets listed, additional information can be added.  For example: script pieces, duration/length, Special Edition changes, etc.

Currently working on: **First Pass ALL Films Complete
**

ShotList-StarWars-v0.5.05 :

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtjXdIjRQo5NdDJORXlfTDBIN0NaQXlWMk51Q2tOR0E

**ShotList-StarWars-v0.5.05_public : (this version can be edited by anyone)
**

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtjXdIjRQo5NdE9GMEZlOXZqOTkwYVRhbVd0WGh4TXc

Not sure how this public version will work out.  But feel free to save your own copy and make changes.  If you do make a change, let me know, so I can incorporate it into a backup version.  As this is public, it might get corrupted so might periodically revert it back to it’s original state.  I guess if anyone reading does make a change, maybe change the border so it <span style=“text-decoration: underline;”>STANDS OUT</span>.  This will make it easier to find when I do a review.

If your crop is water, what, exactly, would you dust your crops with?