***Citizen's NTSC DVD/PAL DVD/XviD Info and Feedback Thread***
Citizen's OOT transfer project info & feedback thread
Source Material Video from the German 1995 THX PAL Laserdiscs (bulk of). Video from the French 1995 THX PAL Laserdiscs (for side changes & intro text). Dolby Surround soundtrack and the extras from the US 1993 Definitive Collection Laserdiscs.
Hardware Pioneer CLD-D515 Laserdisc player Canopus ADVC-100 analogue to/from DV converter box PC: P4 2.4ghz, 512mb, 80gb IDE/120gb SATA/120gb SATA HDs, plus 200gb external USB HD (~500gb total)
Software Capturing: Ulead Video ToolBox Canopus DV codec
Film: Star Wars IV A New Hope Format: avi, XviD compression File size: 3.99gb Bitrate: 4500kbps AVG Framerate: 23.976fps Audio: 2.0 Dolby Surround 256kbps CBR mp3 Subtitles: Greedo's translation, srt text file Image size: 1024x436 Aspect ratio: 2.35:1 approx Extras: none Notes: Final avi is below 4gb so will play on W95/98 machines, burn to DVD in UDF mode Status: Completed
Film: Star Wars IV A New Hope Disc size: 7.83gb dual-layer DVD recordable, layer change sector of iso = 2055248 (needed when burning with DVD Decrypter), it happens about 1h 10m at the beginning of the scene where the holding cell guard says "I wasn't notified, I'll have to clear it" Format: Anamorphic NTSC DVD Aspect ratio: 2.35:1 approx Bitrate: 7100kbps AVG, 4-pass encode Framerate: 23.976fps with 3:2 pulldown flags in the mpeg stream for 29.97fps NTSC playback Audio tracks: 3; 224kbps 2.0 Dolby Surround, 448kbps 5.1 special upmixed, 224kbps 2.0 commentary overlaid onto the 2.0 surround so no long silences Subtitles: Greedo's translation, burnt into black bar at bottom of screen Extras: Trailers, behind the scenes slideshow with music, Lucasfilm archive tour with Don Bies, interview with George Lucas, gallery with Ralph McQuarrie, 2 small easter eggs Status: Completed, but no disc label or case artwork yet
Film: Star Wars IV A New Hope Disc size: 4.35gb single-layer DVD recordable Format: Anamorphic NTSC DVD Aspect ratio: 2.35:1 approx Bitrate: 4100kbps AVG, 7-pass encode Framerate: 23.976fps with 3:2 pulldown flags in the mpeg stream for 29.97fps NTSC playback Audio tracks: 3; 224kbps 2.0 Dolby Surround, 448kbps 5.1 special upmixed, 224kbps 2.0 commentary overlaid onto the 2.0 surround so no long silences Subtitles: Greedo's translation, burnt into black bar at bottom of screen Extras: 2 small easter eggs Status: Completed, but no disc label or case artwork yet
Film: Star Wars IV A New Hope Disc size: 7.88gb dual-layer DVD recordable, layer change sector of iso = 2081120 (needed when burning with DVD Decrypter), it happens about 1h 10m at the beginning of the scene where the holding cell guard says "Where are you taking this...thing" Format: Anamorphic PAL DVD Aspect ratio: 2.35:1 approx Bitrate: 7300kbps AVG, 4-pass encode Framerate: 25fps progressive Audio tracks: 3; 224kbps 2.0 Dolby Surround, 448kbps 5.1 special upmixed, 224kbps 2.0 commentary overlaid onto the 2.0 surround so no long silences Subtitles: Greedo's translation, burnt into black bar at bottom of screen Extras: Trailers, behind the scenes slideshow with music, Lucasfilm archive tour with Don Bies, interview with George Lucas, gallery with Ralph McQuarrie, 2 small easter eggs Starus: Completed, but no disc label or case artwork yet
Film: Star Wars IV A New Hope Disc size: 4.33gb single-layer DVD recordable Format: Anamorphic PAL DVD Aspect ratio: 2.35:1 approx Bitrate: 4500kbps AVG, 7-pass encode Framerate: 25fps progressive Audio tracks: 3; 224kbps 2.0 Dolby Surround, 448kbps 5.1 special upmixed, 224kbps 2.0 commentary overlaid onto the 2.0 surround so no long silences Subtitles: Greedo's translation, burnt into black bar at bottom of screen Extras: 2 small easter eggs Starus: Completed, but no disc label or case artwork yet
Film: Star Wars V The Empire Strikes Back Format: avi, XviD compression File size: 3.97gb Bitrate: 4500kbps AVG Framerate: 23.976fps Audio: 2.0 Dolby Surround 256kbps CBR mp3 Subtitles: None Image size: 1024x436 Aspect ratio: 2.35:1 approx Extras: None Notes: Final avi is below 4gb so will play on W95/98 machines, burn to DVD in UDF mode Status: Completed
Film: Star Wars V The Empire Strikes Back Disc size: 7.92gb dual-layer DVD recordable, layer change sector of iso = 2079568 (needed when burning with DVD Decrypter), it happens about 1h 12m when you see from the back Luke's craft lifting out of the swamp Format: Anamorphic NTSC DVD Aspect ratio: 2.35:1 approx Bitrate: 6900kbps AVG, 4-pass encode Framerate: 23.976fps with 3:2 pulldown flags in the mpeg stream for 29.97fps NTSC playback Audio tracks: 3; 224kbps 2.0 Dolby Surround, 448kbps 5.1 special upmixed, 224kbps 2.0 commentary overlaid onto the 2.0 surround so no long silences Subtitles: None Extras: Trailers, Ben Burt interview, asteroids storyboard, concept drawings gallery slideshow with music, how walkers walk, 2 small easter eggs Status: Completed, but no disc label or case artwork yet
Film: Star Wars V The Empire Strikes Back Disc size: 4.34gb single-layer DVD recordable Format: Anamorphic NTSC DVD Aspect ratio: 2.35:1 approx Bitrate: 3950kbps AVG, 7-pass encode Framerate: 23.976fps with 3:2 pulldown flags in the mpeg stream for 29.97fps NTSC playback Audio tracks: 3; 224kbps 2.0 Dolby Surround, 448kbps 5.1 special upmixed, 224kbps 2.0 commentary overlaid onto the 2.0 surround so no long silences Subtitles: None Extras: 2 small easter eggs Status: Completed, but no disc label or case artwork yet
Film: Star Wars V The Empire Strikes Back Disc size: 7.9gb dual-layer DVD recordable, layer change sector of iso = 2080480 (needed when burning with DVD Decrypter), it happens about 1h 9m when Yoda gets Luke's craft out of the swamp and Luke is right next to it walking backwards Format: Anamorphic PAL DVD Aspect ratio: 2.35:1 approx Bitrate: 7200kbps AVG, 4-pass encode Framerate: 25fps progressive Audio tracks: 3; 224kbps 2.0 Dolby Surround, 448kbps 5.1 special upmixed, 224kbps 2.0 commentary overlaid onto the 2.0 surround so no long silences Subtitles: None Extras: Trailers, Ben Burt interview, asteroids storyboard, concept drawings gallery slideshow with music, how walkers walk, 2 small easter eggs Status: Completed, but no disc label or case artwork yet
Film: Star Wars V The Empire Strikes Back Disc size: 4.34gb single-layer DVD recordable Format: Anamorphic PAL DVD Aspect ratio: 2.35:1 approx Bitrate: 4150kbps AVG, 7-pass encode Framerate: 25fps progressive Audio tracks: 3; 224kbps 2.0 Dolby Surround, 448kbps 5.1 special upmixed, 224kbps 2.0 commentary overlaid onto the 2.0 surround so no long silences Subtitles: None Extras: 2 small easter eggs Status: Completed, but no disc label or case artwork yet
To do (in this order): ROTJ XviD ROTJ NTSC dual-layer DVD ROTJ NTSC single-layer DVD ROTJ PAL dual-layer DVD ROTJ PAL single-layer DVD
NTSC single-layer extras DVD (as the single layer films contain no extras other than easter eggs) PAL single-layer extras DVD (as the single layer films contain no extras other than easter eggs) Case artwork Disc artwork ***Citizen's NTSC DVD/PAL DVD/XviD Info and Feedback Thread***
Further info: The footage from the PAL LDs was captured 5 times then the 5 DV avi's merged into a single huffyuv avi (if you try this then have at least 2 fast harddrives in your system to reduce drive thrashing during the merging, I spread the 5 files across my 3 drives), this process helped eliminate background RF inteference in the laserdisc player and connecting cable to the Canopus unit, resulting in a cleaner capture than just capturing a single time. To gain a more 'film like' look to the resulting video the footage was resized 3 times using 2 different filters, the first doubles the width/height using an edge directed resampling filter that helps enhance the edges without making halos, two sharpening filters and two different smoothing filters also in with the mix, none of the filters used work on a temporal basis so there's no blurring from one frame to the next in an attempt to reduce noise (they already did that when they mastered the LDs so why add to it). In all ~30 hours computing time to output a huffyuv avi at either anamorphic PAL or NTSC resolution, or XviD @ 1024x436 for that particular version. And that ~30 hours doesn't include the 10 hours of capturing just for 2 hours of film footage.
Why the XviD versions? I built myself a projector, not one of those cruddy £5 plans off eBay but a proper 1024x768 res LCD projector with a 400watt bulb behind it that connects to my PC as a normal monitor, see Lumenlab.com, so I wanted a version of the Star Wars trilogy that will play on it in it's native resolution without any resizing going on during playback, hence the 1024x436 XviD versions with mp3 audio.
I initially went with dual-layer discs for the DVDs despite the high price for blank media because with the 3 audio tracks and the extras taking up so much space, but I also created single-layer versions because they were so easy to do after making the dual-layer version, the single layer versions don't have any extras but have the exactly the same audio/menus as the dual layers and are cheaper, easier and quicker to duplicate.
Hey just did my first burn of the DL NTSC, and it worked! No problems! So I should be able to post the DL NTSC pretty soon, maybe tomorrow! This the best DVD I have seen come out of the OT. Great Transfer, great extras, great menus, and great nfo told me right how to burn the disc and were to set the layer break!!
Citizen sent me a copy to view on my high end theater:
119" 16:9 screen 720p Infocus 7200 projector Yamaha RXV-2400 Paradigm 7.1 Studio Reference speakers Buttkicker and Bass shakers etc.
I have probably seen over 15 different versions of Star Wars on DVD. Some were VERY bad and others were just ok. I liked Mother's transfer but the audio was lacking. The "wheel" version was also one of my favorites.
I do not consider the SEs or 2004 releases to be "true" Star Wars. The 2004 DVD release had so many issues it made me sick.
Now to Citizen's version.
I am FINALLY happy after YEARS of trying to find a "great" version of the Star Wars on DVD.
Even on a 119" screen, the video is top notch. Both the 2.0 and the 5.1 mix sound great with plenty of bass. The DL version's quality looks like it could almost pass as an official DVD. This is one amazing PAL transfer and I was thrilled when I saw the first demo disc. I enjoyed it so much, I actually helped Citizen out by donating a 200gb hard drive to help him out with TESB and ROTJ. He deserves it!
I watched all of ANH last night and loved it. I finally have a quality version of Star Wars.
If someone can get me a set, I have a Dual Layer Burner and would be willing to do Pay it Foward on some sets to help distribute this. Sounds like an excellent Pal transfer.
Originally posted by: segaflip Hey just did my first burn of the DL NTSC, and it worked! No problems!
Segaflip, after Citizen's dual layer DVD burning problems, what make of drive and software did you use to successfully burn yours? This set looks so good I might just have to bite the bullet and invest in a dual layer drive.
I used a Pioneer DVR-110D, with the last version of dvd decrypter, all so this has the smoothest layer break transfer then any other fan made DL disc I have.
Thanks for the info segaflip, that's good to know. And of course, a big 'thank you' for everything you post on the newsgroups, your generous sharing is MUCH appreciated.
Wow this sounds so cool, its very overwhelming (especially for a young pup like me lol) I have a THX Tape transfer, thats all, hopefully you guys will be around when I'm older so I could download them... speaking of which, would I be able to download them, (probably to big...) because I could save it to my computer, I don't have a burner, but my friend has one, and I have already taken files with my 128 Mb Jumper Dirve to his house to burn stuff, but I'm not sure if his burner is single layer or not.. Never mind, my rambling was useless... No downloads huh-
Okay, I'm convinced, I need a copy. I don't have newsgroup or BT access here at school, anyone wanna do a snail mail trade for this with me?
I'm with Beastly....anyone that could hook me up with a single-layer version of this transfer will recieve not only my emmense thanks, but also every Star Wars Audiobook ever made on DVD...plus something extra.
Star Wars NTSC DL version: Great transfer, one of the best I've seen so far! On my TV it looks like most remaining limitations are from the LD source... And colors look very natural to me. Thanks for creating & sharing.
For those wondering, you can burn this release on Mac OS X. I mounted the ISO, droped the AUDIO_TS & VIDEO_TS folders in Toast's "DVD from VIDEO_TS", then simply burned it on a DL DVD+R. So far it plays fine on my DVD player and the layer break is where Citizen set it...
Originally posted by: Seb Star Wars NTSC DL version: Great transfer, one of the best I've seen so far!
...if not the best.
I still think my version has the edge in terms of detail (compare Threepio's face in shot 5, but if you consider Citizen's disc as a whole - colour, absence of halos & dot crawl, audio, menus and extras I think he has upped the standard.
There is of course still a potential for improvement, possibly to be achieved by using an earlier laserdisc set - sans "dirt concealment" - with a high-end player. (I hope the X0 project team are taking note.)
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Moth3r I agree yours has an edge (no pun intended) on the detail level, I tried to match yours but soon realised the side effects of doing this would mean either edges that were too hard so individual pixels & grain would show up too much, or end up with halos like your set. So I went towards a more natural film-like look which meant a slightly softer image that still has clarity.
Nero handled burning the DL ISO ok? wonder how it handled setting where the layer change occurs... when I authored the DVD I had to set where the layer change happened, then when creating the ISO from the AUDIO_TS & VIDEO_TS folders using pgcedit it must've imbedded it in the ISO as well as giving me the sector number for burning with DVDDecrypter. ***Citizen's NTSC DVD/PAL DVD/XviD Info and Feedback Thread***
I've been curious about the layer break issue myself. I'm on OS X and have burned many football (american) games on to DL media using Toast. I build the VIDEO_TS folder from DVD Studio Pro and then let Toast auto set the layer break point. This has always worked fine for me. There seems to be no option in Toast for setting the layer break point yourself like in DVDDecrypter on Windows. So it sounds like the layer break point is embedded in Citizen's authored VIDEO_TS, is this right? And Nero or Toast or whatever reads that? If so, then I can go ahead and burn it on my mac at home keeping the correct break point instead of having to take a hard drive to work and burning it there?
You can go about your business. Move along, move along.
Worked fine for me: I mounted the ISO, droped the AUDIO_TS & VIDEO_TS in Toast's "DVD from VIDEO_TS". The layer break was set right, so yes, its position is probably builtin the ISO somehow. (For ref: Mac OS 10.3.9, Toast 6.1.1, DVD+R DL)
Just finished downloaded this and its one of the cleanest transfers I've seen to date. Nice work Citizen! I defnitely need to invest in a dual layer burner so I can watch this on my TV now (just waiting for my favoured supplier to get the Pioneer 110 multiwriter in stock)
quote by Moth3r I still think my version has the edge in terms of detail (compare Threepio's face in shot 5, but if you consider Citizen's disc as a whole - colour, absence of halos & dot crawl, audio, menus and extras I think he has upped the standard.
Agreed, your transfer does look sharper, Moth3r, any idea why? Did you apply a sharpen filter to your capture? Or could it be the resizing algorithm you used produced a sharper image.
Other thoeries - maybe citizens 5 capture merge technique produces a softer result. Or as this is an NTSC version we're comparing, was it going through two resizes - i.e. was the capture first resized to anamorphic PAL and then resized back down to anamorphic NTSC, or was the NTSC version a direct resize from the master file.
Be interesting to see how Citizens PAL version compares.
I'm really liking the leap in quality all these recent captures are showing. Almost makes me weep with joy
