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Blu-ray Disc or HD-DVD? — Page 4
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This competition between the two formats is so intense because the studios realize that high def is it for home video, at least for quite a long while.
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Fucking format war. Screw the studios.
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Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
I am voting with my wallet ... by purchasing nothing. I was going to go Blu-Ray. Now, thanks to Paramount I'm not going with either, and that is their loss more than mine. Once the market produces a quality hybrid player for a reasonable price I'll consider it again.
Fucking format war. Screw the studios.
I am voting with my wallet ... by purchasing nothing. I was going to go Blu-Ray. Now, thanks to Paramount I'm not going with either, and that is their loss more than mine. Once the market produces a quality hybrid player for a reasonable price I'll consider it again.
Fucking format war. Screw the studios.
Exactly.
I am pretty glad I can't afford this stuff anyway, otherwise I might be tempted to have to make a choice, but as it is I don't have any of the equipment to play High def., and I imagine by the time I do the format war will be over and I wont have to worry about it. I do hope Blu-Ray takes it though, I hate when inferrior products cover the shelves thanks to the greed.
"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape
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Originally posted by: ferris209
A lot of people keep saying that this format war is irrelevant because downloadable content will reign. I'm just not so sure, there are some things that people like to own, I mean physically, see it on your shelf, own. I, for one, am that way. I remember 15 or more years ago when people told me that paper would be a thing of the past by the year 2000, well here it is 2007 and I know my office kills more trees than a wooded backroad full of drunks. I also remember hearing that CD's would be obsolete too because of downloading music, while it has taken a blow, CD's are still going strong despite the downloadable music rage. IMHO downloadable HD movies will never be supreme for several reasons, first a lot of people like to actually own what they buy, not just the rights to use it. Second, DRM, nuff said. I could come up with more but I'm tired.
A lot of people keep saying that this format war is irrelevant because downloadable content will reign. I'm just not so sure, there are some things that people like to own, I mean physically, see it on your shelf, own. I, for one, am that way. I remember 15 or more years ago when people told me that paper would be a thing of the past by the year 2000, well here it is 2007 and I know my office kills more trees than a wooded backroad full of drunks. I also remember hearing that CD's would be obsolete too because of downloading music, while it has taken a blow, CD's are still going strong despite the downloadable music rage. IMHO downloadable HD movies will never be supreme for several reasons, first a lot of people like to actually own what they buy, not just the rights to use it. Second, DRM, nuff said. I could come up with more but I'm tired.
You can blame the mess of paper on government regulation. Just about anything dealing with accounting has to be printed and stored for years, it can't just be stored digitally. Hell, even giving over emails for a lawsuit have to be printed.
And actually, regarding CDs, while millions are still sold, digital music downloads are showing massive increases in percentage while CD sales are showing declines.
http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2006-01-04-music-sales-main_x.htm
You'll find the same DRM in Blu-ray and HD-DVD that any downloadable hi-def movie has. If a player gets hacked, they revoke the key and then unless you update your player, anything you buy after that is useless. The advantage downloadable hi-def movies would have over that is that the player would get automatically updated. Besides, I have no doubt that some hacker will find a way to crack the DRM scheme, whether it's downloaded or not.
As Internet connection speeds to homes get faster, downloading hi-def movies will become more and more viable.
And you can make me number three for people who were thinking of buying Blu-ray (as much as I don't like Sony) but are now waiting for a reasonably priced dual format player.
You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.
Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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like the messed up 2004 se star wars trilogy or the 2006 gout, lol
“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.
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Originally posted by: lordjedi
As Internet connection speeds to homes get faster, downloading hi-def movies will become more and more viable.
As Internet connection speeds to homes get faster, downloading hi-def movies will become more and more viable.
Only if compression schemes quadruple in efficiency. Ten 30GB HD movies would require a 300GB hard drive to store. A small library of HD content would take quite a lot of hard drive space. You also have to deal with getting that content over a high-speed home network (~40mbps actual throughput, so forget about wireless over any meaningful distance) to your display. Even the vast majority of HD movie buyers--a fairly tech-savvy bunch--don't have the patience or the know-how to set up a home media network. Most just want to watch movies.
Disc-based media will be the standard for HD movie distribution for at least another 10 years unless our networks and compression techniques catch up to the requirements faster than I expect them to.
MTFBWY…A
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what about verizons new fiber optic technology would'nt that be fast enough?
i know that if you pay an additional 150.00 a month you can get download speeds as high as 100 megabyte per second.
“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.
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My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]
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Originally posted by: lordjedi
You can blame the mess of paper on government regulation. Just about anything dealing with accounting has to be printed and stored for years, it can't just be stored digitally. Hell, even giving over emails for a lawsuit have to be printed.
And actually, regarding CDs, while millions are still sold, digital music downloads are showing massive increases in percentage while CD sales are showing declines.
http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2006-01-04-music-sales-main_x.htm
You'll find the same DRM in Blu-ray and HD-DVD that any downloadable hi-def movie has. If a player gets hacked, they revoke the key and then unless you update your player, anything you buy after that is useless. The advantage downloadable hi-def movies would have over that is that the player would get automatically updated. Besides, I have no doubt that some hacker will find a way to crack the DRM scheme, whether it's downloaded or not.
As Internet connection speeds to homes get faster, downloading hi-def movies will become more and more viable.
And you can make me number three for people who were thinking of buying Blu-ray (as much as I don't like Sony) but are now waiting for a reasonably priced dual format player.
Originally posted by: ferris209
A lot of people keep saying that this format war is irrelevant because downloadable content will reign. I'm just not so sure, there are some things that people like to own, I mean physically, see it on your shelf, own. I, for one, am that way. I remember 15 or more years ago when people told me that paper would be a thing of the past by the year 2000, well here it is 2007 and I know my office kills more trees than a wooded backroad full of drunks. I also remember hearing that CD's would be obsolete too because of downloading music, while it has taken a blow, CD's are still going strong despite the downloadable music rage. IMHO downloadable HD movies will never be supreme for several reasons, first a lot of people like to actually own what they buy, not just the rights to use it. Second, DRM, nuff said. I could come up with more but I'm tired.
A lot of people keep saying that this format war is irrelevant because downloadable content will reign. I'm just not so sure, there are some things that people like to own, I mean physically, see it on your shelf, own. I, for one, am that way. I remember 15 or more years ago when people told me that paper would be a thing of the past by the year 2000, well here it is 2007 and I know my office kills more trees than a wooded backroad full of drunks. I also remember hearing that CD's would be obsolete too because of downloading music, while it has taken a blow, CD's are still going strong despite the downloadable music rage. IMHO downloadable HD movies will never be supreme for several reasons, first a lot of people like to actually own what they buy, not just the rights to use it. Second, DRM, nuff said. I could come up with more but I'm tired.
You can blame the mess of paper on government regulation. Just about anything dealing with accounting has to be printed and stored for years, it can't just be stored digitally. Hell, even giving over emails for a lawsuit have to be printed.
And actually, regarding CDs, while millions are still sold, digital music downloads are showing massive increases in percentage while CD sales are showing declines.
http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2006-01-04-music-sales-main_x.htm
You'll find the same DRM in Blu-ray and HD-DVD that any downloadable hi-def movie has. If a player gets hacked, they revoke the key and then unless you update your player, anything you buy after that is useless. The advantage downloadable hi-def movies would have over that is that the player would get automatically updated. Besides, I have no doubt that some hacker will find a way to crack the DRM scheme, whether it's downloaded or not.
As Internet connection speeds to homes get faster, downloading hi-def movies will become more and more viable.
And you can make me number three for people who were thinking of buying Blu-ray (as much as I don't like Sony) but are now waiting for a reasonably priced dual format player.
When I use DRM as an example, I mean you just know any downloaded content will have so much DRM that you would be lucky to get two whole full viewings of the movie before it deletes itself. Then even if you purchase a movie by download and try to watch it, you just know the industry will have all kinds of hell trying to get the various companies to be interchangeable, hardware wise. If I download an HD movie with some sort of crazy DRM security protocol then the network I use had better be able to decode that protocol, and you just know they'll update the DRM stuff each year. That's the mess DRM causes. Now if I bought the damn movie on a disc, it will play in any player I put it in, so long as it is disgned to play that format, regardless of the DRM which is on the disc.
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Originally posted by: ferris209
When I use DRM as an example, I mean you just know any downloaded content will have so much DRM that you would be lucky to get two whole full viewings of the movie before it deletes itself. Then even if you purchase a movie by download and try to watch it, you just know the industry will have all kinds of hell trying to get the various companies to be interchangeable, hardware wise. If I download an HD movie with some sort of crazy DRM security protocol then the network I use had better be able to decode that protocol, and you just know they'll update the DRM stuff each year. That's the mess DRM causes. Now if I bought the damn movie on a disc, it will play in any player I put it in, so long as it is disgned to play that format, regardless of the DRM which is on the disc.
When I use DRM as an example, I mean you just know any downloaded content will have so much DRM that you would be lucky to get two whole full viewings of the movie before it deletes itself. Then even if you purchase a movie by download and try to watch it, you just know the industry will have all kinds of hell trying to get the various companies to be interchangeable, hardware wise. If I download an HD movie with some sort of crazy DRM security protocol then the network I use had better be able to decode that protocol, and you just know they'll update the DRM stuff each year. That's the mess DRM causes. Now if I bought the damn movie on a disc, it will play in any player I put it in, so long as it is disgned to play that format, regardless of the DRM which is on the disc.
But this is not necessarily true with the latest DRM scheme the studios have cooked up for the hi-def formats. Right now, every Blu-ray player, whether hardware or software comes with a bunch of decryption keys. If someone cracks the key on a hardware player, that key is removed from the "acceptable" list of keys, which makes that player useless for playing future titles. The only way to make it work with future titles is through a firmware upgrade. So essentially, every Blu-ray and HD-DVD player is no different from a software hi-def player. The only difference is that they'll be harder to crack.
Of course, this functionality hasn't been implemented on any Blu-ray or HD-DVD titles yet (and I'm not convinced that the studios would ever do it), but it is there. I believe the studios have said they'd wait until 2008 or 2009 to start implementing it, so they do have the capability.
You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.
Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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Originally posted by: lordjedi
But this is not necessarily true with the latest DRM scheme the studios have cooked up for the hi-def formats. Right now, every Blu-ray player, whether hardware or software comes with a bunch of decryption keys. If someone cracks the key on a hardware player, that key is removed from the "acceptable" list of keys, which makes that player useless for playing future titles. The only way to make it work with future titles is through a firmware upgrade. So essentially, every Blu-ray and HD-DVD player is no different from a software hi-def player. The only difference is that they'll be harder to crack.
Of course, this functionality hasn't been implemented on any Blu-ray or HD-DVD titles yet (and I'm not convinced that the studios would ever do it), but it is there. I believe the studios have said they'd wait until 2008 or 2009 to start implementing it, so they do have the capability.
Originally posted by: ferris209
When I use DRM as an example, I mean you just know any downloaded content will have so much DRM that you would be lucky to get two whole full viewings of the movie before it deletes itself. Then even if you purchase a movie by download and try to watch it, you just know the industry will have all kinds of hell trying to get the various companies to be interchangeable, hardware wise. If I download an HD movie with some sort of crazy DRM security protocol then the network I use had better be able to decode that protocol, and you just know they'll update the DRM stuff each year. That's the mess DRM causes. Now if I bought the damn movie on a disc, it will play in any player I put it in, so long as it is disgned to play that format, regardless of the DRM which is on the disc.
When I use DRM as an example, I mean you just know any downloaded content will have so much DRM that you would be lucky to get two whole full viewings of the movie before it deletes itself. Then even if you purchase a movie by download and try to watch it, you just know the industry will have all kinds of hell trying to get the various companies to be interchangeable, hardware wise. If I download an HD movie with some sort of crazy DRM security protocol then the network I use had better be able to decode that protocol, and you just know they'll update the DRM stuff each year. That's the mess DRM causes. Now if I bought the damn movie on a disc, it will play in any player I put it in, so long as it is disgned to play that format, regardless of the DRM which is on the disc.
But this is not necessarily true with the latest DRM scheme the studios have cooked up for the hi-def formats. Right now, every Blu-ray player, whether hardware or software comes with a bunch of decryption keys. If someone cracks the key on a hardware player, that key is removed from the "acceptable" list of keys, which makes that player useless for playing future titles. The only way to make it work with future titles is through a firmware upgrade. So essentially, every Blu-ray and HD-DVD player is no different from a software hi-def player. The only difference is that they'll be harder to crack.
Of course, this functionality hasn't been implemented on any Blu-ray or HD-DVD titles yet (and I'm not convinced that the studios would ever do it), but it is there. I believe the studios have said they'd wait until 2008 or 2009 to start implementing it, so they do have the capability.
Uh, well, you learn something new everyday. Still, I'm none too confident in downloading being the premier way to get movies.
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"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape
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Originally posted by: C3PX
But how will they know the player has been hacked? How will the damn thing communicate with them? Are they going to update themselves everynight by wirelessly communicating with the studios? Informing them of your movie watching habbits. I don't find that idea very comforting. Not to mention the potential hazard that poses in the event of a robot uprising...
But how will they know the player has been hacked? How will the damn thing communicate with them? Are they going to update themselves everynight by wirelessly communicating with the studios? Informing them of your movie watching habbits. I don't find that idea very comforting. Not to mention the potential hazard that poses in the event of a robot uprising...
Generally speaking, the player cracks, at least the software ones, are usually pretty well publicized, so the studios and manufacturers end up finding out very quick. They don't have to communicate with the player in order to disable future titles. They simply withdraw the key as an authorized key and all new titles ship without that key. So unless the players are updated to reflect the changes, they simply refused to play that disc.
Don't think of it as the current system with DVDs and CSS. CSS had very few keys so they couldn't be pulled. The new encryption, afaik, has millions or billions of keys. They can invalidate one key and still have billions of valid keys left. I'm not exactly sure how it all works and some groups have already cracked some of the Blu-ray software players, but the strictest DRM has yet to be implemented. If it ever is and they take advantage of it, it could cause a lot of problems for consumers.
You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.
Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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Something just occured to me, will Titanic be on HD-dvd or Blu-ray? The film is owned by 20th Century Fox outside of the US and Canada, Paramount was brought in later on to help pay for the huge budget.
Take back the trilogy. Execute Order '77
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Originally posted by: Knightmessenger
So wait a minute, I could buy an HD movie and then discover it will no longer play on my machine because someone else from who knows where hacked the disc. That would piss so many people off, it would be the surest way to lose the format war.
Something just occured to me, will Titanic be on HD-dvd or Blu-ray? The film is owned by 20th Century Fox outside of the US and Canada, Paramount was brought in later on to help pay for the huge budget.
So wait a minute, I could buy an HD movie and then discover it will no longer play on my machine because someone else from who knows where hacked the disc. That would piss so many people off, it would be the surest way to lose the format war.
Something just occured to me, will Titanic be on HD-dvd or Blu-ray? The film is owned by 20th Century Fox outside of the US and Canada, Paramount was brought in later on to help pay for the huge budget.
Then it probably won't be released any time soon. Probably after the 18 month contract with Paramount is up, which, if thedigitalbits is right, the new formats won't matter because they'll be a niche market (assuming there's still two formats).
You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.
Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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Take back the trilogy. Execute Order '77
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Originally posted by: Knightmessenger
Yesterday the digital bits just posted that the most reliable sources say the 150 million payoff didn't come from Microsoft. It came from Toshiba. Either way, I just saw a Sony blu-ray disc player advertised in the circular of the paper for $500. Isn't that a new low price?
Yesterday the digital bits just posted that the most reliable sources say the 150 million payoff didn't come from Microsoft. It came from Toshiba. Either way, I just saw a Sony blu-ray disc player advertised in the circular of the paper for $500. Isn't that a new low price?
That's not entirely accurate. What they said was that it came from Toshiba and/or the HD-DVD group collectively. They also said the MS was involved in the process, but didn't cut any checks. So, while it may not have come directly from MS, I'm sure MS has had money in the pot at one time or another.
The Sony blu-ray player (I'm assuming PS3) had a $100 price drop just a week or two ago. If it's a different player, then it could be a new low price, but it's about the same as a PS3. There are also new Chinese made HD-DVD players on the way for $199. That's the kind of price I'm looking for when getting a new player. If they can get a dual format player here for just a little more (maybe between $300 and $500), I'll be sold.
You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.
Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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And that's another thing that bugs me. When/if HD becomes the new standard for movies/games/TV...their is still gonna be dumbasses out there that can't even set the damn things up right. Even when the world can rejoice in the awesome standard of HD, more than half the people sitting down to watch it are gonna have this really shit set-up. How people (and I know plenty but they insist I don't "mess with" their nice new TVs) can sit down in front of something that cost them upwards or thousands and have the blacks be more like grays, the skin tones of everyone look like cherries....I mean, Maybe I'm insane but that kinda shit just bugs me.
...or those people that have a real nice TV...7.1 surround....yet still hook all it up with composite cables. ugh.
Some people call me (and others out there like me) too picky. But then they always wanna watch movies at my place and just shit rainbows about how nice things look.
Hey look, a bear!
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I have an HDTV. I do not have a hi-def DVD player. Why? Competing formats. I got my HDTV and hooked it up to digital cable with some HD channels. I watch HD anytime it's available. I can take my TV and hook it up to any cable or satellite provider and the HD channels will look the same. If I want to watch hi-def DVD, I have to buy two different players. IMO, that would be stupid. What's even more stupid is that the industry couldn't come to an agreement on a single format before releasing hi-def. So, if you want to call someone stupid, don't call the people buying HDTVs and hooking them up to standard DVD players stupid. Most of those people are realizing that they'll get a better picture with a hi-def player, but no one wants to buy a player that might end up being obsolete. They watch HD channels on their HDTV and that's good enough.
People aren't stupid for getting an HDTV to go with a standard DVD player. The people who are stupid are the ones that hook up an HDTV to standard (or even digital) cable or a standard DVD player and think they're getting the full HD experience. Some people will ask those of us that know better why their DVDs look like crap on their giant HDTV. Our job is to educate them. Just tell that it's not an HD source and that they'll have to get either a Blu-ray or HD-DVD player. When they start asking about that, just tell them about the format war. I've seen plenty of people stop asking questions and just respond with "I think I'll wait". The people who think they're getting HD off their SD DVDs are not generally the same type of people that will ask why their SD DVDs look like crap unless they're also using an upconverting DVD player. I blame the industry for those too.
You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.
Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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BTW in case you haven't seen it: Doom9's article on the "format war".
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“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.