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Auto-correction from SE colours to GOUT colours — Page 4

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Originally posted by: Desree
So, i captured the original Pal Pan And Scan laserdisc of Empire with which to take the histogram for it`s respective film, and lo and behold the results are stunning. First a comparison using the histogram on GOUT and SE:

Image1


Hi Desree!

It would be cool to see some shots from the laserdisc you're capturing the histogram from! I also tried auto-colourmatching the entire frame, but found the colours to be inaccurate that way in Fusion, so that's why I decided to use the original and match it accurately on top to transfer the colour pixel by pixel. Never tried the avisynth plugin you're mentioning, so it would be cool to see how your result looks compared to the source!

Rune

www.superrune.com
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Okay, here goes. Superrune, you wanted to see the source, so here are the same main three shots in Pan And Scan (though i wasn`t able to do an exact match on the Yoda shot, `cause i can`t remember which frame i used). These are taken from the raw capture (sorry, i deleted the Huffy render used for the histogram as i needed the hard drive space and want to still use the raw capture for a `definitive` render), before remove dust was invoked but after level correction. Noise for the histogram was removed with Removedust(6). That would be the only step left.

Rogue2 Fullscreen
Yoda Fullscreen
Fleet Fullscreen

Laserman, yes i am using the latest version. But I think i can scrap that line about the wasted histogram rendering. I`d forgotten something very important regarding YV12. I am using these in my script, before the RGB conversion (i forget things and get confused easily, as i am a heavy smoker, for those that know what i mean). A Polar and regular YV12 histogram is generated off the GOUT and SE, to make sure that the YUV levels match, and then the rgb histogram from the SE and the Pan And Scan used to correct colour. In fact, this is what it looks like without the YUV correction:

Rogue2NoYV12

Not bad, but doesn`t give that nice crisp white provided with the YV12 Histo`s, and both histograms are needed otherwise the endresult isn`t affected. And for PaulisDead2221, here is the section of my script that deals with the colour correction:

polarcolourlike("D:\Empire\ESBdvdSMART\Histogram\SeDVDallPolar.txt","D:\Empire\ESBdvdSMART\Histogram\OrigDVDallPolar.txt",true,true,true)
colourlike("D:\Empire\ESBdvdSMART\Histogram\SeDVDallYV12.txt","D:\Empire\ESBdvdSMART\Histogram\OrigDVDallYV12.txt")
converttorgb32(matrix="pc.709")
colourlike("D:\Empire\ESBdvdSMART\Histogram\SeDVDallRGB.txt","D:\Empire\ESBdvdSMART\Histogram\FullLaserallRGB.txt")
levels(36,1,214,0,255)
VD_HUE(sat=0.9)

But the page that moth3r linked to really does have all the info (be aware that the last version released is on page 2 of the discussion).
Should anyone wish to use them, here is a link to all the histograms used in the above sample:

Histograms

And for those that wish to know, my project isn`t yet finished, although Empire is rapidly entering the "Alpha" phase, in fact should be done by the end of the week, and Star Wars shouldn`t be too far behind (been de-se`d, but not colour corrected). When this is done, i will start a new topic where i hope to link to the script, histograms and plugins used and provide instructions as a `do it yourself` kit for owners of the original dvd`s. The "Alpha" release will simply use a remastered GOUT to replace SE footage, but i am simultaneously recreating missing frames at a higher quality, pulling together every source i own, but so far only have Vader And the Emperor and a tiny segment of Leia in the Clouds (about 25 frames of the pod car which was replaced by the Weather Vain), completed. But it is tedious and boring work. So the final version will be a while in coming. I do not wish to derail the thread, so this is the one and only time that i will hijack it to discuss my own project in detail.
Oh, and one last thing before i finish this post, the frame that inspired the thinking behind the idea of using the YV12 histogram before the RGB ones, the purple asteroid:

That Damned Asteroid

“Ow! It`s hot in here, the butter in my pocket is melting!”

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At the risk of further derailing the thread, Desree, are you using any of the THX WOW demodisc, or 97 special editions to replace some of the 2004 SE footage (like the vader/emperor scene, and recropped falcon cockpit shots - i think thats a 2004 change) . Or more to the point, would the PAL anamorphic broadcast versions of the 97 SEs be useful to you?

I'd PM you, but your Private Messaging is off. Turn on 'Allow Private Messages' in your profile and PM me if you'd like to discuss it.

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That asteroid corrected image looks very brown, I'm pretty sure Han's jacket shouldn't be that colour.
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<<Groan...>> I guess it's time to learn AviSynth at last...That looks very promising, I wonder if there's a way to specify the colour curves you want to use for particular shots where colorlike's solution doesn't look right, while letting the filter do everything else on auto. Or if it's possible to use what the filter spits out as a starting point, but tweak along the way as neccessary.
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well don't forget that avisynth is script, so if you set the colourlike filter to run first, you can run other filters to then subsequently adjust other shots, you can put in frame parameters so other filters will only affect portions of the main file.
When a woman says yes, she means no - when she says maybe, she means no.

http://www.auky37.dsl.pipex.com/falconlogo_web.jpg
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Wonderful work, some of the most exciting stuff I've seen on these boards - from all of you.

Desree, can't wait. I think you're having trouble on that Empire Falcon shot because the pan & scan discs really don't have very good color - they're a nasty transfer. Clearly it's working for a lot of things, but you should try more recently-released pan & scan VHSes if you need a good pan & scan transfer. The old special edition pan & scan VHSes might actually work for your needs here. They didn't have weird color.
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Hello again. You know, i`d never noticed the problem with han`s jacket, but now that it`s been mentioned i can see what the problem is with the asteroid sequence- a lack of blue. I`d never noticed han`s jacket because it`s actually that off grey colour throughout the movie, almost but not quite blue, and i found it difficult to put my finger on what exactly was wrong. But it would appear to have been another victim of the `blue cast`. Hmmm. So i`m going to try a few more ideas based on ocp`s comments, but it`ll take a few days. I`ve captured the 1997 editions from laserdisc this morning and am writing the histograms for that, and i`ll be capturing the 1991 vhs widescreen edition tomorrow and performing the same operation. The theory is that i`ll take it back to the 1997 edition which only suffers the blues while the footage stays on Hoth, and then take that corrected footage to go back to 1991. At least that`s the theory.
Another idea is to import Gradation Curves into avisynth and try to eliminate the blue cast that way, and then writing a new histogram for the SE for the colour correction, but i seem to remember not getting many good results with that filter within virtual dub. Again, hmmm. But if anybody else has any suggestions then i`m open to them. The final version NEEDS to be perfect, so these issues have to be sorted.
So it`s going to take a couple of days to get any more results, but i will be reporting back when the experiment is finished. But because i live in England, today is Lost day, since i have to download it of that there intraweb, and i`m going to be spending today making a DVD each for two close personal friends who are more addicted to it than i. If i go to work tomorrow without them, i`ll be turned to stone by their stares. Especially if i then go on to say that i`ve already seen it....
Oh, and INv8r_ZIM, i was in your position a couple of years ago, but Don`t Panic, it`s a lot easier than it seems. I now can`t imagine life without AviSynth, if only for basic cleaning before serving a video into my favoured editor of whichever moment it is (especially on DVD, since it works natively in YV12). Filters can be applied on a frame by frame basis using a command called applyrange(), or by simply cutting the video into segments and combining with the comand alignedsplice(). The Doom9 forums are your friend here though, since a lot of people on there have far more experience than i have.

“Ow! It`s hot in here, the butter in my pocket is melting!”

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It has to be said the amount of technical skill shown by many on this forum is truly astounding, as is the level of passion for fixing these films. The experiments shown on Page 1 nearly bought a tear to this cynics eye - it's how I remember the film looking back in 1980! I'd love to see the whole 2004 DVD cleaned up like this (and de SE's of course!). The original colours and 2004 clarity are astounding.

- John

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might I suggest that once you've settled on a good general colour correction (barring a few problem scenes) that you post the script files + source histogram file? as most people won't have access to the material you are using but would still be able to use the histogram to colour correct?
When a woman says yes, she means no - when she says maybe, she means no.

http://www.auky37.dsl.pipex.com/falconlogo_web.jpg
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Well, the PAL (fullscreen?) histograms are posted a page or so back. I think someone would need to do an NTSC version as well, though, no? And do those histograms do anything to the purely SE shots in the film, or do they simply ignore them? It is intriguing though, the idea that you could package everything someone would need to DIY colour correct the 2004 DVDs into something resembling the fillms, and in only a few hundred k.
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Originally posted by: s7en
At the risk of further derailing the thread...


Lol, yeah I hope you don't mind superrune, it's just that this method is more accessible to more people prolly. I guess it isn't completely derailed since this is a general discussion of auto color correction...maybe?

Spaced Out - A Stoner Odyssey (five minute sneak peek)

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hi superrune, i've got finally eyon fusion, it will be cool if you share any detailed tutos for the colour correction method that you use.THANKS A LOT.
Grooaoohumpf
(scuze my english)
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Hello there. Just wanted to say to Superrune and Desree thanks for introducing these color correcting methods, they both show promise. I'm doing CC for my own ANH project right now so it's nice to have some other ideas and methods to tinker with.

Desree, I was wondering what transfer/source you were planning to use for the ANH histograms? I've been doing some experimenting with the colourlike filter using the GOUT, and you're right it's probably not the best source to use. I've been getting some mixed results. Then again I'm just learning Avisynth so I might have done something wrong along the way. I did however try out your ESB histograms and they worked great.


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Not sure if this is the right thread, but I didn't want to start a new one just for one question.

Can anyone tell me if the '97 SE LDs have the same (or similar) color "correction" seen on the '04 DVDs?

I know it's shown in this thread that the '97 SE digital broadcasts do have it, but I thought it could have conceivably been applied after the LD release.
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Thanks, Darth.

That makes me wonder...

If the dye-transfer print was used as color reference for the SE - could it be that the original (pre-video) color is closer to the '04 than the DC/GOUT?

That seems wrong, from memory, but memory (particularly color memory) is unreliable.

A horrible idea, I know, but...
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I doubt that, because on every release before 97 there was no blue tint.
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...or on every release pre-'97 there was a yellow tint.
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What ever happened this this project ?

"The Empire can't stop us now..now its our turn" -Luke-

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Originally posted by: THX
Thanks, Darth.

That makes me wonder...

If the dye-transfer print was used as color reference for the SE - could it be that the original (pre-video) color is closer to the '04 than the DC/GOUT?

That seems wrong, from memory, but memory (particularly color memory) is unreliable.

A horrible idea, I know, but...



In some ways it is, the film prints have much richer colours than the laserdisc versions, the saturation is much higher, but not up there with the 04 versions.

The colour cast certainly isn't there on the old films, the full frame laserblasts are totally clear on the film (i.e. white) and not blue like the 04.

So in laymans terms the saturation is more towards the 04 than say the definitive, but the actual colour hues are not.
If you bump the saturation on the SC up a few notches you are pretty close to the original films.

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Originally posted by: Laserman
If you bump the saturation on the SC up a few notches you are pretty close to the original films.
Kinda like the Dark-Sega SC preservation--although that might be bumped too many notches.

However, in practice you must take into account the “fuckwit factor”. Just talk to Darth Mallwalker…
-Moth3r