Any of you out there fans of the art of taking stereo recordings and up-mixing them to surround or DTS for playback on a 5.1 home theater system? I have finally set up my home system, and have been obtaining some very interesting fan-made DTS and 5.0 conversions of classic albums. It's more then just making a fake 4-way audio picture with left and right channels. At least it seems much more involved by what I am hearing within the audio picture. The sound separation and effect on some of The Beatles and Pink Floyd albums are truly impressive. The fan creators do this up-mixing by using audio software such as Adobe Audition or Nuendo 4, and free plug-ins like VST plugin suite.
I would love to learn more about this possess, and try up-mixing some film soundtracks on my own. "Blade Runner", "The Empire Strikes Back" and "Thunderball" would be at the top of my list. But, there are so many great powerful soundtracks that would be thrilling in surround.
Before I start on such a intensive research project, I wanted to check around here first, and see if any of you had any personal favorite fan made Surround or DTS conversions. It does not have to be limited to Soundtracks, it can be any style of music.
“First feel fear, then get angry. Then go with your life into the fight.” - Bill Mollison
I pointed out in the Preservation forum how I would do such things (with re-EQ ect...). I told about that in one of Hairy Hen's thread I think... Let me know if you want some help to find the post, or some precision on what I said.
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OK, I found it (I changed a couple of lines to be more clear):
My input, if it can help...
If you are melting sources and looks you can't have a perfect match, just make sure the waveform is not inverted from a source to another.
Another thought, concerning the kind of mixes you're all using around here, is that the wide stereo surely means to make a nice experience for all people who have special equipment... However I remixed (and downmixed) myself the "Asteroid Field" stereo and mono tracks from Star Wars Musical Journey and I can tell you Shawn Murhy's direct downmixed version sounded awful next to the revised final 2-track version I finally made - only Msycamore here has heard the result, though I didn't let him compare with the downmixed untouched version. What I had recovered showed the overall sonority of the RSO track (with a lower dynamic range though) but with compression artifacts they made for the DVD unfortunately totally revealed.
What I'd like to point out anyway is that the stereo widening for 5.1 experience sounds totally unatural to me as a 2-track stereo shape. To obtain the best version I could, close to any musical experience for Hi-Fi ect..., I had to narrow the stereo with a stereo widening filter: about 30% for the rear stereo, 70% for the front stereo channels (100% beeing no change) + of course re-equalised the two pairs of tracks + the main center channel. The main consequence that really stroke me listening to the result is how much you can restore the dynamic range when you give back a more natural stereo by narrowing it.
Now, if I had to upmix such a material I would try to give the wideness feeling through equalizations, and would perhaps even try to give the more relief as possible through two complementary EQ's, more bass-oriented for the front stereo, and highs for the rear... Don't know, but I guess. The streo widening may still be used, but with great moderation.
I strongly suspect this way of feeling and thinking the sound can make you reconsider the 5.1 phenomenon.
I'm not an audio "expert" though, technically speaking ;)...
Thank You A B C! To do this right, I very much need as much help and information as I can get.
“First feel fear, then get angry. Then go with your life into the fight.” - Bill Mollison
FanFiltration said:
Thank You A B C! To do this right, I very much need as much help and information as I can get.
' Glad to help... But you mostly need to put your hands in it, you can trust me.
More information on the upmixing process here:
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Moth3r said:
More information on the upmixing process here:
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Doctor-Ms-Stereo-to-51-Dolby-Prologic-II-Upmix-Guide/topic/11546/
I surmise the default 20ms delay are corresponding to the stereo widening process... I would go easy on that if it is for classical music experience or so... As I said, it sucks the dynamic as far as I observed. But well, it is your laboratory now! ;)
Edit: the stereo widening filter I have at hand is the one from Nero Burning Rome, wich is convenient to check in real time the fx. You'll spot right away how it alters the EQs and then be able to compensate if needed. I'm not sure it is the same processing than the delay I just mentioned though. As it seems your search is for "audiophile" purposes you would won by testing separately such alternatives.
Have a nice time.
Thanks for that link Moth3r! I will be spending the day immersed in this research. Right now I am listening to a 5.0 up-mix of Atom Heart Mother that is truly stunning.
“First feel fear, then get angry. Then go with your life into the fight.” - Bill Mollison
May I ask what is the difference between 5.0 and 5.1 please... ? (Hehe, no you're not dreaming).
Also, I may help more concretely as I'd be interested to know if my recipe works for real.
I am not to sure I have this surround and DTS terminology down yet, but I think 5.0 utilizes all the speakers except the sub-woofer. Some of these up-mix albums seem just to use the front and rear speakers and not the center or the sub-woofer speakers. So they are more like Quad (4.0?).
“First feel fear, then get angry. Then go with your life into the fight.” - Bill Mollison
Ah ok. For the downmixed version I made from the SW DVD I kept and rearranged the 6 tracks I got. The front and rear tracks alone were too wide (and too light) otherwise. I didn't want to keep the sub bass track in the begining but it was finally better with as it seemed it compensated a lack in dynamic range.
Anyway, let me know if you're interested to make together an experience of the kind I mentionned. Then I can send you the 6 (or 5?) tracks of a cue separately for you to upmix and test (I don't have 5.1 or whatever equipment)...
I'll be sure to let you know when I get to that point ABC. Thanks!
“First feel fear, then get angry. Then go with your life into the fight.” - Bill Mollison