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Apparently there were message boards discussing the OT back in '83.

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1983, 5 years before I was born, I never thought the internet as we know it existed before '92 but now I find out not only did it exist but there were forums discussing the OT back then!

Read this forum.

I would like to see what these Usenet forums looked like and what people were discussing in forums about the OT before it was even complete. Do you people know anymore about this? On the official site back in I think it was '01 they did an april fools joke where for the day they had a retro 1980 official site webpage showing news and discussion of the ESB in the making and the next day they said it was fake and the internet didn't exist back then. But I guess they were wrong. I assume this Usenet was very primative by today's standard and you could only send text form one computer to another and there was no fancy forum GUI and such.

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Janskeet said:

Apparently there were message boards discussing the OT back in '83.

They were originally made of cork. ;-)

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These are some impressions of Return of the Jedi.

The visuals are nothing short of fantastic.  I especially liked Jabba's
floating `barge'.

Before I go further with specifics, let's hit a few general points.
SW-ANH and TESB were good enough to stand by themselves. NO WAY for this
flick.  There was very little continuity of action, and contrary to
other folks who have said that Mark Hamill can't act, I feel that he had
the only believably written part in the story.  The dramatic pace of the
show was very badly handled, and many important scenes weren't believable.

Now specifics.

  Jabba was ok, but there some things that weren't believable.  The
glimpse after Luke destroys the Jabba's monster where some of Jabba's
folk mourn for it is not realistic.  In a place such as Jabba's hall
where fear and pleasure alternate, it seems unlikely that the guards,
who might at any moment be terminated, would have had either the time
(high turnover in a place like that) or the inclination to gain
affection for the beast when they stood a chance of being a meal
for it sooner or later.  And it just doesn't WORK in the film.
  And the pace was wrong.  The original picture of Jabba and his hall
was a little comical, but it grew frightening very quickly.  From a purely
technical point of view, the comic relief should have been held awhile.
  When Leia was releasing Han, she said she was ``Someone who loves you ...
a lot.''  This was not all that realistic.  Think about it -- she is
trying to get him out of there.  The greeting card schamltz would have
waited.  And we would have seen Leia PROVE her love by enduring Jabba's
abuse.  ...  This should have been brought
into sharper focus.  Even a remark from Han would do it.

  When Leia strangles Jabba, it seems to be a little too pat, too easy.
It seemed too melodramatic, as well.

  And Jabba, being apparently a lover of torture (applied to others) would
probably have carried the cat-and-mouse with Luke a little further.  Next,
why did Luke wait until they were about to make him walk the plank before
fighting?  After all, he could have jumped/flew out of the monsters
pit immediately.  Was he just playing cat-and-mouse with Jabba?  If so, his
demeanor with Jabba (``You should have bargained.  I will destroy you.'')
was all wrong.  Luke would almost certainly have been more coy.  And this
is not acting.  It is writing.  Yes, acting might have saved the day.
(``-offhandedly: You SHOULD have bargained. I -gravely: WILL -quietly:
destroy you.'')  But let us not fault Hamill for not being Brando.

  In the opening, the introduction reads ``Little does he know that the
Empire is building a new Death Star'' or some such.  OUCH!  I had to
pull the corncobs out of my ribs -- and it got worse when Luke found out
AFTER rescuing Han abouth the new Death Star.  That tidbit of information
was carried into the movie by an unmitigated Deus Ex Machina.  If it was
important enough to rate explanation in the opening, why was it tossed
into the plot exposition with that kind of devil-may-care attitude?

In the big scene -- the scene with the Emperor -- the Wrath of the Emperor
is badly handled.  He jumps up and gets VERY physical, throwing sparks
all over the place to zap Luke.  Why?  He does these things with his mind.
It would have been far better if he sat with his eye closed as the sparks
engulfed Luke -- and as Luke resisted by clearing his mind of hatred.
And, just as the Emperor is about to overcome  Luke, just as all his
energy and conciousness are focused on Luke's destruction, Vader smites
the Emperor with Luke's light sabre and they both are engulfed in a
blaze of glorious purple (not blue, please) sparks.  A horrible scream
is heard, and the Emperor's body disappears.  Then he appears in
``holographic'' form, and, with a look of panic and terror, fades
thinner and thinner until only a shadow is left.  Finally the shadow
fades as well.  That is how it COULD have been.

  Why didn't the battle with the Empire's fleet more closely track the
battle between Luke and the Emperor?  Yes it might have been corny if
overdone, but is could have been believable>

  If Yoda, on his deathbed (contrived, no?) tells Luke that Luke had learned
all he needed from Yoda, why was it that in TESB Yoda wanted Luke to stay?
And why wasn't Yoda available in ``holographic image'' just as soon as
he died?  Ok, it's not unreasonable, but not explained either.

  And why didn't Anaken Skywalker, after his salvation from The Dark Side
of the Force, disappear immediately upon dying?

  And, if Leia is strong of the Force, and has experienced it (when Luke
called out to her near the end of TESB) why didn't she at least have
some view of the Three Transfigured Jedi (Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Anaken (sp?))
when Luke could see them? At least to feel their presence?

  Then there were the scenes where the furry litle people are destroying
the two-legged tanks (whatever they are called).  They find about six or
seven ways to do it, and this is a little TOO much comic relief.  Also,
they could have been saved for a whole bunch of action-twists, each
alternating with a hopeless or disasterous situation.

  And why was the rebel cruiser able to withstand the planet-bursting
blasts of the ``fully operational Death Star''?  If it had been only partially
operational, it might have been more credible from BOTH the point of view
of the cruiser and the point of view of the amount of time needed to
complete the station.

  Oddly enough, Obi-Wan's explanation of how he had not lied was
believable -- perhaps because that is the way I would have written
it myself.

  What else?  Well, in going from the destruction of Jabba, to Yoda on
his deathbed, and back to the battle group, the pace was lost.  After
the first drawn-out and terrible vanquishing of an enemy, we should
either set up for a higher tension or see some kind of escape valve
(eg comic relief) before the vastly different type of emotions needed to
deal with the Yoda scenes -- and we should have had a little more
build-up on the way back.  The placement and handling of the Yoda
scene destroyed the flow of the action.

                        Well, I could say a lot more, but
                        this should be enough to start things
                        going.
                                        Mark Terribile
                                        Duke of deNet

This was my favorite one.  I think he hit the nail squarely on the head.

 

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Mielr said:

Janskeet said:

Apparently there were message boards discussing the OT back in '83.

They were originally made of cork. ;-)

 

 More of Mielr's tacky humor.

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Sluggo said:
Mielr said:

Janskeet said:

Apparently there were message boards discussing the OT back in '83.

They were originally made of cork. ;-)

 

 More of Mielr's tacky humor.

"tacky".......*groan*!!!!! LOL!

I like this one:

 

"Winner. Perhaps not quite as crafty an ending as I had hoped, 
but a reasonably satisfying ending.  I felt very good leaving 
the theater (not because I was leaving, but because the movie 
was so good). 

I am afraid that the movie is possibly not suitable for very 
young children; parents may wish to check it out ahead of time. 
There are some scenes which are a little violent and possibly 
scary for young children. 

General consensus of 12 of us: 10 out of 10, possibly the 
best of the three.  We are all going to go see it again 
before making any critical analysis of plot or effects. 
The overall feeling was good, however.  The crowd for the first 
showing at Atlanta's Phipps theater (the only Atlanta 70mm 
print) applauded and cheered many scenes throughout the movie, 
and gave a standing ovation at the end. Of course, some of 
these folks were die-hards who camped out all night to be 
first in line. 

Bottom line: the film could have been a tremendous let-down 
after the first 2 and all the attendant speculation.  It was 
not a let-down -- it was a very pleasant experience. I would 
easily rate this a $6 or even $8 movie -- even the second 
time around!"   Gene Spafford 

 

 

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Well, I read that review Sluggo posted. And for the most part, I agree!  Didn't like how he wanted to get rid of the Emperor though.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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I thought the cost of movies would have gone up a lot more since then.
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Janskeet said:

I would like to see what these Usenet forums looked like and what people were discussing in forums about the OT before it was even complete. Do you people know anymore about this?

... I assume this Usenet was very primative by today's standard and you could only send text form one computer to another and there was no fancy forum GUI and such.

I've been using Usenet since 1991. I can't really remember what it looked like back than, I think it was accessed via a VT100 or Kermit window on my Amiga, plugged into the university network.

I still use it now on occasion, using Outlook Express (ugh!). Obviously there is a huge Usenet archive you can access through Google Groups, if you use the advanced search you can turn up Star Wars-related posts from '81 to '83.

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LOLs even back in '83 a dude from MIT was looking for, well see for yourself.

Also LOLs at "Explanation for Imp. Armor"

Why is Imperial armor so ineffective?  Ever hear of the M-16 rifle?  The M1
tank? Perhaps the armor is made on a planet with powerful lobbyists... or
made from Wisconsin cheese.

There's even an '83 double post in that subject.

Strange thing is that one guy mentions in the early notices of different versions of Star Wars films:

In my first viewing of the original Star Wars movie, Biggs appeared in an
early scene.  He was a friend of Luke's, and was trying to convince Luke
to go with him and join the rebellion.  This scene has been omitted in
subsequent releases which I have seen.  But Biggs still shows up as one of
the fighter pilots who go out to tackle the Death Star, while Luke shows
particular concern for him.

I have a SW4 story book which has a picture of Biggs talking to Luke
on Tatooine.

Also another one mentions a longer version of Star Wars. Plus, early Lucas hate and, more early Lucas hate.

Give into the Darkside! We have cookies! Originator!

Lols all around reading these postings.

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How about this one:

Star Wars SE- so whats the fuss about???

Digital effects look like digital effects...

When the Land Speeder flies over the camera towards Mos Eisley - it
looks just as bad as a card board flat. The city itself is a silicon
dream. Sorry George, but adding all that crap was a waste of time. If
it was just to clean up the matte lines and improve the explosions -
fine. This stuff looks as bad as Anaconda...
The original was considered a modern masterpiece. Why then do we not
attempt to preserve that for future generations???

 

I just don't think that the added digitations added enough to the film
to merit the full scale alteration (some say destruction) of a
milestone, classic film.

I have to agree that the SWSE wasn't anything to get joyous over.  I thought
the new effects detracted from the film.  The best of the three re-do's was
Empire because the changes were not as noticable.  They really fucked up Return
with the new (horrible) song that replaced "lapti Nik".
Actually, I feel the exact opposite.  I thought the addition
of Jaba to Star Wars was good, added a sense of continuity.
The digital effects weren't that big a deal, but they weren't very
noticable for a younger, first time viewer.  As for the song in Jedi,
good riddance, the Ewoks should have been digitally edited out
as well.

 

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So apparently George Lucas raped some peoples childhoods as early as 1983,lol.  Too bad these people back then could not see into the future and Jar JAr Binks and Episode 1 or they would have been singing Return of the Jedi's Praises in comparison.

I would like to see the Filmgoers complaints of Temple of Doom to compare with the Crystal Skull bad reviews from fans.

Even in 1997 they were spared the godawful 2004 trilogy edit that added Hayden to the ghost trio, and jar jar binks to the celebration scene on return of the jedi.  Add to that the unecessary change of Boba Fetts cool voice with a prequel actors phoned in replacement dialogue, in empire strikes back.  Greedo still shoots first.  and Jabba still does not Look quite right though not as bad as he did in 1997.

The fucked up colors on the 2004 set are a dissaster and so is the sound mix on star wars with muted and reversed surround channels.  Deliberate Creative Decision, yeah right we all believe you George.  Apparently quality control and hiring testers of these products no longer matters because Lucas had his built in TFN fanbase that drinks up the kool aide.

Best music video ever for star wars is george lucas raped our childhood everybody should look it up on youtube as well as that comedians Skit about going back in time and killing george lucas with a shovel.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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skyjedi2005 said:

I would like to see the Filmgoers complaints of Temple of Doom to compare with the Crystal Skull bad reviews from fans.

Here's a few:

http://groups.google.com/group/net.movies/browse_thread/thread/11c79e6b6ab71ee5/d82ddf03e54cb4e3

http://groups.google.com/group/net.movies/browse_thread/thread/2138c3bde554eee2/fffe61d6a434a27

http://groups.google.com/group/net.movies/browse_thread/thread/af8c0ba7c2629/77e195f07184b35d

 

And...

'Rotj nitpicking'

http://groups.google.com/group/net.movies.sw/browse_thread/thread/b2c7f3760fb1702c/001eadfe79b8d67d

 

'RotJ ***SPOILER*** & disappointed flame'

http://groups.google.com/group/net.movies.sw/browse_thread/thread/f63b1734b2601bcb/30c4e784be3a887e

 

'RotJ: Comments, Criticism, and Speculation'

http://groups.google.com/group/net.movies.sw/browse_thread/thread/c7c7d96b051ebacc/f1011f76344e1386

 

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Nezha Conquers the Dragon King (1979) BBC 1.66:1 & Theatrical 2.35:1 preservations

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sounds like a review by skyjedi2005...(kidding)

 

_Star_Wars_

                        by Kelvin Thompson

 _Star_Wars_, yet another entry in the recent spate of "Space Operas," is
 a bad, morally empty movie.  Look, quick!!  It has lights!!  It has
 zooming spaceships!!  It has laser flashes!!  It has explosions!!  Look
 closer, and it has nothing.

 

 The plot of _Star_Wars_ is certainly nothing new: a bunch of good guys
 try to overthrow an evil space empire.  Ruling the evil space empire
 are an evil count, James Earl Jones (a Negro), and an evil spaceship
 commander, Peter Cushing (_Dracula_A.D._1972_, _The_Curse_of_
 _Frankenstein_).  Among the good guys are a princess, Carrie Fisher
 (_The_Blues_Brothers, _Shampoo_), an old warrior, Alec Guiness
 (_The_Man_in_the_White_Suit_, _Murder_by_Death_), a young warrior, Mark
 Hammil (_Corvette_Summer_, _Three_Women_), a mercenary, Harrison Ford
 (_Witness_, _The_Conversation_), and assorted robots and aliens.

 From its opening scene, where two spaceships chase each other around a
 planet while trying to blow one another to smithereens, the movie loses
 any semblance of realism.  The spaceships make swishing and humming
 noises as they maneuver about, and their lasers make zapping noises as
 they fire -- all despite the fact that it has been scientifically proven
 that there are absolutely no sounds in space.  

 In another gaffe later in the movie, a robot supposedly manages to go up
 and down a staircase, even though it is quite obvious that it is
 structurally impossible for the robot to do so.  The camera cuts away
 just as the robot gets to the staircase, but the viewer is again jolted
 by the obvious impossiblity.

 

 More important than any scientific error, however, is the glaring lack of
 any moral statement.  In a time of mass starvation in central Africa,
 terrible human-wave battles in the Middle East, repression of civil
 rights in the USSR, legalized racism in South Africa, and rampant
 terrorism everywhere, this movie just hums merrily along in its
 rose-colored glasses.  

 

 For example, when Hammill, the supposed hero of the movie, sees the
 burned corpses of his parents, he responds by turning his head sideways.
 No tears, no shouts of outrage, just a crick in the neck and they are
 forgotten.  Later, when an android buddy of his is discriminated against
 in a space-bar, he accepts the wrong without a blink.  Late in the film,
 when an entire *planet* full of billions of sentient beings is
 annihilated, the good guys just sort of go, "Gosh, that's too bad."  The
 bad guys, of course, smile cruelly.  These kinds of responses to murder,
 discrimination, and genocide certainly do not encourage the kind of
 consciousness needed to overcome today's problems.

 

 _Star_Wars_ contains a lot of action sequences, so it will no doubt have
 a strong draw on today's young people.  Nonetheless, parents should make
 every effort to keep their children away from this morally bankrupt movie
 and direct them toward a film which takes a useful stand on some of the
 issues facing our world.  And, naturally, all ethical adults should stay
 well away from it themselves.

 

later

-1

[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]

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one guy foresaw the midichlorians..

 

Newsgroups: net.movies.sw
From: METZ@MIT...@sri-unix.UUCP
Date: Wed, 5-Oct-83 04:45:00 EDT
Subject: Re-hashing an overcooked

On the topic of the Other, in RotJ :

Darth Vader was indeed the other; Leia is - or rather will be -
simply a carrier of the genes that apparently give the owner
increased control over the Force.

 

later

-1

[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]

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"But let's face it.  This movie was made only for the effects.  George
has lost it.  My friend Paul, who is a student at USCinema, quoted one
of his teachers to me once.  This teacher said, "Old directors don't
die, they become cinematographers."  What that means, is, when old
directors lose their story-telling ability, they start concentrating on
the imagery.  George has clearly lost his story-telling ability."

I love that quote, "Old directors don't die, they become cinematographers."

 

I don't think this is the reason for the Return of the Jedi situation, I think the problem with Jedi was that Lucas was burnt out on SW. It was time for him to move on, yet some how, all these years later, he has still not managed to do so. I do feel that the prequels and IJATKOTCS have a lot to do with that quote though.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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I'm really Interested in all these old message board posts so thanks for posting them all.

I don't agree with a lot of it 'cause I actually like ROTJ (warts and all) but they're still a lot of fun to read. I do understand the criticisms though.

 

"Well here's a big bag of rock salt" - Patton Oswalt

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This person should play the lottery:

"Inspiration"

I believe the article referred to is the one that mentioned Lucas
and Ronstadt celebrating with Spielberg and Amy Irving (back together
again!) over the release of Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom.

 

From what I've read, Lucas wanted to take a vacation of six years
or so from the whole Star Wars thing for the sake of his health and
his family.  I have a sneaking suspicion, however, that after a few
years have passed, Lucas will start itching to do another one.

The trilogy released is the second.  I think he will at least oversee
the making of part of the first trilogy.  I'd be willing to bet on it.

 

M. Ashley
ihnp4!ihuxm!marno

Or at least they should've made that bet with someone if they didn't.

 

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I know this thread is very old, but there is something I believe it’s worth being pointed out:

Take a closer look into this review

[…] I suspect that the Emperor is NOT dead, but that he used the Force
to teleport away from the Death-Star; that blinding flash was a manifestation
of this activity. The Emperor had a very good reason to escape at that point,
the shield generator had been trashed, and the destruction of the Death-Star
was imminent. He realized that he didn’t have enough time (and/or stamina) to
kill both Skywalkers with the blue bolts, and hoped that they would die in the
explosion of the Death-Star. This conjecture is supported also by my extensive
experience with the Universe of Marvel Comics, wherein a character is not dead
unless you see the corpse, and perhaps not even then. […]

Not a bad guess lmao.

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“SW-ANH and TESB were good enough to stand by themselves. NO WAY for this
flick.”

Interesting perspective. Wish I could share it, as I no longer enjoy ROTJ and never watch it anymore, but TESB’s loose ends are just too loose for me to pretend it works as a conclusion to the saga.

“The Anarchists are right in everything; in the negation of the existing order and in the assertion that, without Authority there could not be worse violence than that of Authority under existing conditions. They are mistaken only in thinking that anarchy can be instituted by a violent revolution… There can be only one permanent revolution — a moral one: the regeneration of the inner man. How is this revolution to take place? Nobody knows how it will take place in humanity, but every man feels it clearly in himself. And yet in our world everybody thinks of changing humanity, and nobody thinks of changing himself.”

― Leo Tolstoy