Basically they got a case of the Lucas and decided they could do better. The majority of the episodes on Netflix are the remastered versions but for some reason there are a couple of the unremastered versions thrown in the mix as well and they look awesome.
Can you name the unremastered episodes?
Nobody sang The Bunny Song in years…
Nope! I was going through TOS a while back and was delighted when I came across the untouched. Can't recall any specifics now.
Yeah, as Danfun pointed out, the Star Trek TOS Blu-Rays have both versions of each episode: the unremastered originals and the "improved" remastered editions.
Personally, I prefer the original effects--in the majority of cases. But it's really nice to have both available. Wish I could say the same for Star Wars.
Oh, and the Season 3 Blu-Ray has a special bonus: the original cut of the second pilot, "Where No Man Has Gone Before." This has several pieces of alternate narration from Kirk, and very retro "bumpers" to reintroduce the show on coming back from commercial breaks, at the beginning of each new "act."
This version was actually believed lost for years and years--because Gene Roddenberry donated his personal copy to the Smithsonian, which promptly let it languish in a vault. Some collector in Germany found another copy and let CBS-Paramount use it as a source for a new release.
“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”
doubleofive said:
The pilot Enterprise had a larger bridge module, larger deflector dish, solid red spiked nacelle caps, and holes in back of the nacelles. When they got picked up, they upgraded the model to have lighting, so they ended up changing all that. So there are really only two versions, they just used the pilot version in the series if they had a stock shot of it doing what they needed it to do that week.
They also used a few AMT model kits, but that's beside the point.
Actually, as I understand it, Matt Jefferies et al. made a few minor tweaks to the Enterprise model between the two pilots. Not nearly as major as what happened once the series was finally picked up, though.
And FWIW, I understand Jefferies wanted to go back to the solid-colored nacelle caps for the abortive 1970s series Star Trek: Phase II. These would have been gun-metal blue, as would the deflector dish. The nacelles would've been shaped overall like those of the movie Enterprise, though (i.e., flattened instead of cylindrical).
(Actually, even calling it a "deflector dish" is a major Trek retcon. Originally Jefferies meant it to be a radar dish, like on real-world airplanes. He even wanted, at one early stage in designing the Enterprise, to protect it under a nose-cone on the front of the secondary hull.)
“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”
I always thought the first trek movie was highly underrated.
Danfun128 said:
DrCrowTStarwars said:
...They only went the CGI route because the original negatives for the special effects shots were lost so those could not be restored and broadcast in HD like the rest of the content...
Explain the original shots being used in the blu-ray's then...
Those were not in HD. I never claimed that it wasn't possible to make copies of the copies but just because something is on a Bluray disc does not make it HD. I placed back up copies of all my classic DW episodes on several Bluray discs because it makes for easy storage, but that doesn't change the fact that the stories were shot on video tape and are only on HD.
The local stations wanted HD content so Paramount redid the special effects in HD for Tv but kept the original shots on home video. I really don't see anything wrong with that. I talked personally to some of the people who redid the effects and they had a lot of respect for the the people who did the original effects and were not out to destroy them, just to keep Star Trek on TV.
If they really were out to destroy all the old effects then why did they include the old effects shots on the home video release?
Also some of the effects in the first couple of years of TNG looked awful even for the time but they were not replaced and the reason was that the original negatives were found so HD prints of those shots could be made for TV and Bluray.
The people who did the work have said repeatedly that the only reason they touched the effects on TOS was because there were no negatives to make HD prints of and I see no reason to assume they are lying since when negatives could be found for TNG they used those and they went out of their way to include the old effects shots on the Blurays.
Again if you do some research you will find that Bluray discs to not have magical powers granted to them by wizards that make non HD content that is burned on to them HD.
The original effects shots are in HD on the Blu-Ray. They had access to the original film masters. That's what was broadcast. That's as good as they can look because they didn't have the original elements to peice back together like they did for the recent TNG Blu's. The CG effects were added because CBS figured that they couldn't get anyone to show the re-runs without some kind of catch. The original versions are still out there and preserved.
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Yeah i guess I misremembered that detail but the upshot is the same, no one was trying to destroy the old shots, the fact is compared to everything else they look grainy and fuzzy and I say that as someone who supports the preservation of film, has no problem with the special effects of Blake's 7, and always watches my Blurays with the original effects and audio track.
Still the fact is it wasn't done just to change for change sake or to destroy the old shots, it was done to give a constant look to the episodes and so all the content would look like a real HD print to the average viewer. The fact is that a full restoration of the original effects shot just could not be done, it's sad but it's wat happens to a show after 40 years.
The original shots are still out there for anyone who wants them so I really don't see why the people who made the new shots or the shots themselves should be attacked as if they are a thing of pure evil.
My objection to the Star Wars SEs has never been that they were done in the first place(As a matter of fact I enjoyed some of the changes when I first saw them as a kid)it's that the originals were not kept out there as an option. Paramount has kept the original effects and mono audio tracks out there and that is a lot more then other film companies do with their releases of old TV shows and movies(In many cases you can only get a 5.1 remix of an audio track these days)so I have no problem with what they did or the people who did the work.
DrCrowTStarwars said:
Yeah i guess I misremembered that detail but the upshot is the same, no one was trying to destroy the old shots, the fact is compared to everything else they look grainy and fuzzy and I say that as someone who supports the preservation of film, has no problem with the special effects of Blake's 7, and always watches my Blurays with the original effects and audio track.
Still the fact is it wasn't done just to change for change sake or to destroy the old shots, it was done to give a constant look to the episodes and so all the content would look like a real HD print to the average viewer. The fact is that a full restoration of the original effects shot just could not be done, it's sad but it's wat happens to a show after 40 years.
The original shots are still out there for anyone who wants them so I really don't see why the people who made the new shots or the shots themselves should be attacked as if they are a thing of pure evil.
My objection to the Star Wars SEs has never been that they were done in the first place(As a matter of fact I enjoyed some of the changes when I first saw them as a kid)it's that the originals were not kept out there as an option. Paramount has kept the original effects and mono audio tracks out there and that is a lot more then other film companies do with their releases of old TV shows and movies(In many cases you can only get a 5.1 remix of an audio track these days)so I have no problem with what they did or the people who did the work.
Exactly my feelings. Paramount at least makes original versions available, and you can actually choose to watch either version you want. I wish they would have followed suit with star wars.
I'll say this, Disney won't put the OUT and the SE on the same disc like Paramount/CBS did with Star Trek TOS and the Original/CGI. The SE's of Star Wars have too many changes to try to sync with the OUT, unlike Star Trek, where the CGI version syncs perfectly with the original. It would be more likely to see Disc 1 being the OUT and Disc 2 being the SE.
Nobody sang The Bunny Song in years…
Danfun128 said:
Do it right or don't do it at all.
DuracellEnergizer said:
pittrek said:
A completely random question - does anybody here know ALL the variations of the Enterprise NCC 1701 model?
I have the perfect answer, but Frink would suffer a breakdown were I to give it.
I have the perfect retort, but it's in Ebonics with a gay lisp and I think it would explode your brain.
...
Come to think of it, maybe I should go ahead and say it.
TV's Frink said:
Danfun128 said:
Do it right or don't do it at all.
Thank goodness someone invented adblock so I can block all images posted by some people.
TV's Frink said:
DuracellEnergizer said:
pittrek said:
A completely random question - does anybody here know ALL the variations of the Enterprise NCC 1701 model?
I have the perfect answer, but Frink would suffer a breakdown were I to give it.
I have the perfect retort, but it's in Ebonics with a gay lisp and I think it would explode your brain.
...
Come to think of it, maybe I should go ahead and say it.
Go ahead. The scar tissue's gotten thick enough to withstand the worst of it by now, anyway.
I thought the TOS remastering crossed the line a tad when they erased a statue that was part of the set in Wink of an Eye. Redoing a matte shot is one thing...
It would be really funny if the original TOS FX raw footage turned up someday. There were so many FX and optical houses involved, it was probably scattered to the winds after the show ended. One of the FX guys later worked on the horror classic Phantasm, and reused the transporter effect for when the mortuary dissolves at the end.
Where were you in '77?
Danfun128 said:
DrCrowTStarwars said:
...They only went the CGI route because the original negatives for the special effects shots were lost so those could not be restored and broadcast in HD like the rest of the content...
Explain the original shots being used in the blu-ray's then...
SilverWook said:
You can pick the the early two episode DVD releases pretty cheap on Ebay these days. Was watching a couple the other night, and they still look good, especially compared to what I saw on tv as a kid. :)
That's fine if you like old transfers. If you want a pre-cgi transfer that looks decent, look up either the japanese star trek laserdisc sets (Log 1, Log 2 and Log 3 for each season) or the 2007 european "Star Trek: The Original Series - The Collector's Edition" dvd set. Both use the same transfer, and before the post 2007 cgi releases were considered the best looking sources. Note that these transfers may or may not be more consistant than the blu-rays with "original shots" mode on. I heard that the ladder was done in a way similar to our communitys despecialized, mixing the post 2007 cgi transfer (used for most footage) with a new transfer of the original footage that may or may not be either HD or restored in any way (used only for the shots that had changes in the post 2007 cgi transfer). Can anybody correct me on that last point, if possible?
I thought all new transfers were done for the first DVD releases? Presumably the same masters were used for the Sci Fi channel editions. Prior to that, everything was from video transfers done in the early 80's. Even DS9 had to get a new transfer of The Trouble With Tribbles done before they could have Sisko and company pay the 23rd century a visit.
If the Japanese LD's weren't so insanely expensive, I would have bought them by now. They do have some technical faults, and missing footage in an episode or two, but there are some tv specials that have never had a proper video release here. I'd love to see the Japanese title sequence myself.
Where were you in '77?
SilverWook said:
I thought the TOS remastering crossed the line a tad when they erased a statue that was part of the set in Wink of an Eye. Redoing a matte shot is one thing...
It would be really funny if the original TOS FX raw footage turned up someday. There were so many FX and optical houses involved, it was probably scattered to the winds after the show ended. One of the FX guys later worked on the horror classic Phantasm, and reused the transporter effect for when the mortuary dissolves at the end.
The funny thing was that the bigger changes they made were a reaction to fan complaints, I know because I was there on the sites when it happened.
The team doing the new effects asked for fan feedback and when it became clear the old effects would be kept on home video a lot of fans started complaining that the new effects were not worth seeing because all they were doing was reproducing the old effects with CGI. So after that the team started making changes like the one stated above and doing things like adding rocks impacting against the halls of a ship and stuff like that and at first the fans were happy and saying things along the lines of "If you are going to make changes you should go all the way" but then it didn't take long for a backlash to start.
I think it just goes to prove you can't listen to fans because fans are really just a group of people routing for this thing to fail. Even when you give them exactly what they ask for they will still attack you. Back in the 80s no one tried harder to get Doctor Who pulled off of the air then the show's so called "fans".
Organized fandom can really be an ugly thing some times and I don't really think there is a way for the producers of new content to win since every fan wants the show they watch to stay exactly the way it was when they first saw it and never try anything new, but the general public wants the show to try new things and take chances so there is no way to please both these groups.
If I were Paramount I think I would just ditch Star Trek and and burn everything related to it since it is clear there is no pleasing the fans so having anything to do with this franchise will just get you personally attack. Far better to just make it as if Star Trek never existed so people will forget about it and stop bugging you.
The only way to win with fans is to just stop producing anything they claim to "like" because fans are really just hate filled people looking for any excuse to complain and threaten the lives of people who produce the stuff they claim to like.
The new effects are hit and miss IMHO. I love the new space shots but I hate the CGI Enterprise (if it makes sense).
DrCrowTStarwars said:
I think it just goes to prove you can't listen to fans because fans are really just a group of people routing for this thing to fail. Even when you give them exactly what they ask for they will still attack you. Back in the 80s no one tried harder to get Doctor Who pulled off of the air then the show's so called "fans".
When was this? I recall quite the concerted effort to get the show back on the air during that forced year long hiatus in 1985. There was even a Band Aid style protest song.
If anybody had it in for the dear Doctor back then, it was the Marketing Division of The Sirius Cybernetics Corporation BBC.
Where were you in '77?
ATMachine said:
Yeah, as Danfun pointed out, the Star Trek TOS Blu-Rays have both versions of each episode: the unremastered originals and the "improved" remastered editions.
Personally, I prefer the original effects--in the majority of cases. But it's really nice to have both available. Wish I could say the same for Star Wars.
Oh, and the Season 3 Blu-Ray has a special bonus: the original cut of the second pilot, "Where No Man Has Gone Before." This has several pieces of alternate narration from Kirk, and very retro "bumpers" to reintroduce the show on coming back from commercial breaks, at the beginning of each new "act."
This version was actually believed lost for years and years--because Gene Roddenberry donated his personal copy to the Smithsonian, which promptly let it languish in a vault. Some collector in Germany found another copy and let CBS-Paramount use it as a source for a new release.
Now, that is interesting. Besides the Enterprise, there was another Trek exhibit I saw at the Air and Space Museum back in mid 70's. It was part of a larger display about Science Fiction and it's influence on real space travel. There was a 16mm film loop of the show playing, and it was the second pilot. (The loop was of the Enterprise entering the galaxy barrier.) I think a phaser was on display as well.
There was a similar installation nearby about the Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers serials.
The WNMHGB alternate cut is usually referred to as being Quinn/Martin Production style. Their shows popularized that format in the 60's and continued well into the 70's.
Where were you in '77?
Stumbled across these, and they are too hilarious not to share.
Where were you in '77?
SilverWook said:
Stumbled across these, and they are too hilarious not to share.
Yep, Sisko is awesome.
Oh and don't forget he designed a ship that Starfleet ended up not wanting because it had too many guns on it and he then flew that ship to single handedly take on an inter fleet.
There is a reason SF Debris calls that ship the USS Ben Sisko's mother fucking pimp hand.
TOS may be my favourite Trek, but Sisko's certainly my favourite commander/captain. Why Paramount never gave him and the rest of the DS9 crew their own movie I'll never understand.
Perhaps because the end of DS9 really didn't leave too many doors open. The Dominion war was over, and Sisko was off hanging the wormhole aliens. Odo left commune with his people, possibly for a long time.
Worf was supposedly going to the Klingon homeworld, but somehow always ends up back on the good ship Enterprise. ;)
Wasn't O'Brien going back to Earth?
Garak was going to stay on Cardassia and help rebuild.
Rom was going to become Grand Nagus, with Leeta at his side, and Nog would likely go where Starfleet wanted to send him.
That just leaves Kira, Bashir, Jake, Quark, Ezri, and Morn, who should have finally spoke and uttered the last word of the series.
Where were you in '77?
