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ANDOR - Disney+ Series - A General Discussion Thread — Page 21

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NFBisms said:

Speculation because it’s fun:

When Luthen’s bolsheviks are inevitably split from Mon and Bail’s mensheviks, I think Mon will do so in part by leveraging religion as the basis of the Alliance.

We know that the younger generation of Chandrilans (esp on Coruscant) are more conservative than Vel and Mon’s generation, and the Empire is starting to stamp out local customs in the wake of Aldhani. Leida’s mystic tradwife fixation - as negatively as that is portrayed - is still a rebellion in this context (wouldn’t be exempt from PORD), and I think Mon will begin to take advantage of that. The Force and other fundamental mysticism could become a political tool for a religious [or more broadly, cultural] revolution against a coldly secular Empire; rebellion gaining favor and involvement from younger generations like the Chandrilan youth, even students (similar to Nemik) opposed to Imperial seculonationalist hegemony - sorta like the Iranian revolution.

“May The Force Be With You” becomes a common rebel refrain. A wider populace is definitely onboard by Rogue One, not just the convicts, criminals, or tragically displaced that we [mostly] started with in Andor.

Importantly, Mon Mothma’s vibes between BBY 5 and BBY 0+ are very different. If the old ways of Chandrila are the deal with the devil she makes in season 1, I think she will continue to make that deal as a political face of this rebellion. The frumpy modesty of her ROTJ look might now read as martyrdom in old Chandrila’s tradcatch ideology; she’s renouncing the materialism of an Imperial Senator, re-committed to the Old Ways.

My theory is that this will be a big source of the sectarian rebel tensions in the lead-up to the Alliance. Like I alluded to above, Luthen is basically a bolshevik accelerationist. Revolution on his terms is dirty, brutal, and spearheaded by a professional vanguard of gangsters and spies. Mon’s canonical call for Open Rebellion is the inevitable clash with that clandestine exclusivity, but I think what’s added to it with the development of a culture and religion rally, is that for once there might be a tangible, coherent ideology to the so-called “Alliance to Restore The Republic”, one that addresses what exactly makes The Empire more evil than the Old Republic.

It’s always been a fandom talking point that Palpatine’s Clone War Republic was already The Empire, but this route would clearly define “A Republic” as an intergalacticist aspiration, not just a misguided return to what failed before. The Force unifier as culture commonality, not just faith in Jedi or magical will. Empire dilutes and destroys heritage and identity, that’ll be the populist throughline of the rebellion, pre Death Star.

Andor’s already made a really solid examination of imperialistic genocide in real terms (displacement, culture loss / limit) and not just overt violence with everything that happens on Aldhani and Ferrix. My hope for season 2 is that those threads are picked up in a real way further, the pieces are all there.

Surprised no one responded to this. Great write-up! The way Mon’s wardrobe “downgrades” by the OT is something I had thought about and this is an interesting way to explain it in-universe. Also, like you said, “May the Force be with you” being a rallying call for the rebellion with a capital R.

I almost don’t want to think about it too much in case this doesn’t come to fruition! Love hearing your thoughts on this.

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Any complex examination of Andor is probably best left until season two ends. We don’t know how much the whole post ROTJ world Disney has set up, aka New Republic Dumb Now, will have to be catered to. Hopefully no real kinda set up but here we are.

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Well, my point about “Alliance to Restore the Republic” was specifically about it moreso as a mission of peoples, not governance. The aspirational “Republic” would be defined loosely by a diversity of sovereign states, not necessarily their representative role or would-be political mechanics; the rallying call being an embrace of mysticism and culture are just important elements of that broader movement. It’s not an understanding of the rebellion that’s particularly novel in simpler terms, but would be, if in friction with the ideological / theoretical rebellion season 1 ends at.

I think that potential reframe as tenuous populist coalition lends itself to an aftermath with a struggling New Republic if anything.

That said, yeah, I wouldn’t want there to be overt reference to the Mandoverse. That exists separately in my mind; that version of SW is more an expression of genre than it is drama / faux-history like Andor. There’s space left internally at LFL to compartmentalize anyway. Different creative teams and mediums necessitate it. The OT is a clear divider between the eras.

Again though, was only speculating for fun! I don’t expect it play out like I theorized at all. When I posted I thought it could moreso be a decent place to start a discussion about season 1’s themes. I disagree about saving discussion for later; between seasons is the best time for stuff like this! Hell, I’d do “complex examination” of Ahsoka too, why not?

But yeah, I was starved for discussion about Andor beyond “It’s better than everything else!” Outside of the extrapolation, the post was just what season 1 was textually about. Ferrix and Aldhani’s oppression was occupation, displacement, and erasure of culture under technocratic hegemon. It’s not a stretch reading of the material. So the line from those ideas to eventually shining a political light on the original sin of the Jedi’s genocide (even as only propagandist symbol), would be pretty straightforward. Feels especially plausible when you consider the pre-determined endpoint (May the Force Be With You) + the other threads that are poised to interweave and synthesize. (eg: Chandrilan tradition as [teen] rebellion, insurgent sectarian tensions, etc.)

Andor: The Rogue One Arc

not a Jedi apologist or a Jedi hater but a secret third thing

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NFBisms said:
My theory is that this will be a big source of the sectarian rebel tensions in the lead-up to the Alliance. Like I alluded to above, Luthen is basically a bolshevik accelerationist. Revolution on his terms is dirty, brutal, and spearheaded by a professional vanguard of gangsters and spies. Mon’s canonical call for Open Rebellion is the inevitable clash with that clandestine exclusivity, but I think what’s added to it with the development of a culture and religion rally, is that for once there might be a tangible, coherent ideology to the so-called “Alliance to Restore The Republic”, one that addresses what exactly makes The Empire more evil than the Old Republic.

Yeah - I mean, historical parallels are always tricky and inexact, but I think what you say about Luthen here is essentially correct. But I interpreted Mon Mothma as basically aligned ideologically with Luthen, rather than viewing the two as representing opposing sides of something like an eventual Bolshevik/Menshevik split. Mon Mothma finances Luthen’s revolutionary activities. She comes off as less “Machiavellian” than Luthen mostly because she operates as a public figure in the middle of a technological police state. (Mon’s cousin Vel also is presumably aligned ideologically with Luthen.) The fact that Mon does some Menshevik type things - like working with the Imperial Senate and Galactic elite to fight oppressive legislation - doesn’t really put her in opposition to Luthen’s attempts to pull off an “October revolution”. Mon’s public activities in the Senate (and her ineffective opposition to Palpatine) are something of a cover story. She’s a Bolshevik in Menshevik clothing, if anything.

for once there might be a tangible, coherent ideology to the so-called “Alliance to Restore The Republic”, one that addresses what exactly makes The Empire more evil than the Old Republic.

Yeah. I mean, the movies don’t explore this beyond a very superficial level. But clearly, we’re supposed to understand that the Empire is worse than the Old Republic because the Empire isn’t a democracy, at least after Alderaan. (Oh yeah, also that little matter of blowing up Alderaan.) But we don’t really even know exactly how the Empire functions economically. We often call the Empire “fascist” - but all we really know about it (from the OT at least) is that it’s a totalitarian police state. It doesn’t necessarily have the structure of classic fascism, like a corporatist economy organized around syndicates. Ironically, the Old Republic was shown to have a Trade Federation and other enormous corporate entities representing an economic sector, with representation in the government - a major feature of fascist/corporatist economies. Presumably these were nationalized and absorbed into the Imperial State.

The encroaching nationalization of private enterprises is mentioned in the novelization of ANH and a deleted scene, but Andor depicts private corporations working as organs of the State. Historically, fascist states would often privatize industries at first, but then end up nationalizing (more so in Italy than Germany) or subsidizing major industries over time to consolidate state control and subordinate the economy to the military. I assume the Empire does this as well (if their handling of Preox-Morlana is any indication) - and they probably absorbed/nationalized former Separatist corporations. But presumably, Palpatine’s end goal is complete nationalization of everything in subordination to the State/military, using the Death Star as a means of maintaining direct control. Also unlike actual fascist regimes, the Empire doesn’t seem to glorify an ancient past or ancient traditions.

The Old Republic, on the other hand, was apparently a quasi-democratic, liberal, capitalist society, with encroaching forms of corporatism (e.g. Trade Federation, Techno Union, etc.)

It’s unclear what sort of economy/ideology the various Rebel factions depicted in the OT or Andor are actually fighting to achieve in some hypothetical New Republic, but presumably the Rebel Alliance that we know and love wants to setup something similar to the Old Republic, rather than something more like a socialist economy with publicly owned industries as suggested (arguably) by the underlying thematic vibes of Andor.

Also, anyone notice how that deleted scene in ANH with Luke and Biggs is kind of an early “spiritual predecessor” to Rogue One/Andor? It’s a scene that would be right at home in an episode of Andor, minus the corny 70s dialogue.

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Channel72 said:

NFBisms said:
My theory is that this will be a big source of the sectarian rebel tensions in the lead-up to the Alliance. Like I alluded to above, Luthen is basically a bolshevik accelerationist. Revolution on his terms is dirty, brutal, and spearheaded by a professional vanguard of gangsters and spies. Mon’s canonical call for Open Rebellion is the inevitable clash with that clandestine exclusivity, but I think what’s added to it with the development of a culture and religion rally, is that for once there might be a tangible, coherent ideology to the so-called “Alliance to Restore The Republic”, one that addresses what exactly makes The Empire more evil than the Old Republic.

Yeah - I mean, historical parallels are always tricky and inexact, but I think what you say about Luthen here is essentially correct. But I interpreted Mon Mothma as basically aligned ideologically with Luthen, rather than viewing the two as representing opposing sides of something like an eventual Bolshevik/Menshevik split. Mon Mothma finances Luthen’s revolutionary activities. She comes off as less “Machiavellian” than Luthen mostly because she operates as a public figure in the middle of a technological police state. (Mon’s cousin Vel also is presumably aligned ideologically with Luthen.) The fact that Mon does some Menshevik type things - like working with the Imperial Senate and Galactic elite to fight oppressive legislation - doesn’t really put her in opposition to Luthen’s attempts to pull off an “October revolution”. Mon’s public activities in the Senate (and her ineffective opposition to Palpatine) are something of a cover story. She’s a Bolshevik in Menshevik clothing, if anything.

Where I’m coming from with the parallel is more about where Mon ends up as opposed to where she is in Andor S1, and where the bolsheviks and mensheviks clashed in regards to membership. (And either way, early revolutionary days had both factions often working together on a temporary basis, participating in the same activities - extralegal or otherwise.)

I think Mon’s aligned with Luthen right now, but eventually she’s going to open the rebellion up in a pretty public move (Star Wars: Rebels). From then on, the Alliance becomes a known political entity to the Empire, with her as a public face of it. It’s a whole apparatus with a fleet and a council, there’s moralism in at the very least what is a public stance disavowing Saw Gerrera as an extremist. In A New Hope, its legitimacy as something that can gain favor in the Senate is why the Death Star exists. Bail / the Organas are not in exile like Mon is.

It’s still an inexact parallel - I didn’t intend to be otherwise and Star Wars never is - but I see the friction between being exclusive and being broad as one coming conflict in season 2.

To tangent off of this though, the Bolshevik in Menshevik clothing is interesting to say because we actually also get stuff in season 1 hinting at Luthen not wanting to be so clandestine anymore and Mon learning to be less scrupulous. Gilroy and Luna have said we will see Rogue One differently after S2; Draven and Cass’ ruthless activity in that film might be fully sanctioned by Mon herself. And how warranted was Saw’s disavowment really? How does Luthen get out of the picture? I’m interested to see where else any analogy will be imperfect. The mix and match is the fun part.

Yeah. I mean, the movies don’t explore this beyond a very superficial level. But clearly, we’re supposed to understand that the Empire is worse than the Old Republic because the Empire isn’t a democracy, at least after Alderaan. (Oh yeah, also that little matter of blowing up Alderaan.)

…

It’s unclear what sort of economy/ideology the various Rebel factions depicted in the OT or Andor are actually fighting to achieve in some hypothetical New Republic, but presumably the Rebel Alliance that we know and love wants to setup something similar to the Old Republic, rather than something more like a socialist economy with publicly owned industries as suggested (arguably) by the underlying thematic vibes of Andor.

Right, I just meant before the Death Star, there’s already a well established Rebel Alliance. So I was extrapolating based on Andor’s depiction of cultural displacement, what makes that a reality without a planet killer moving people to action. I don’t think the economic mechanisms as you laid out could mobilize the common populace we see in Rogue One/OT (at least per Andor), so I was mostly speaking to what would. If the seperatists alluded to throughout Andor are the same corporatists from the prequels then I’m sure that’d all be in there somewhere as political promise in alliance, but I think there’d actually be some intentional, built-into-the-story eschewing of actually working out a post-Empire government/economy. The Alliance has canonically been a temporary coalition since Rogue One.

Like, I don’t think Andor is rewriting canon to make it more clear. I think it’ll just choose a focus that allows it to sidestep those concerns, while co-opting the historical motifs of revolution broadly.

Also, anyone notice how that deleted scene in ANH with Luke and Biggs is kind of an early “spiritual predecessor” to Rogue One/Andor? It’s a scene that would be right at home in an episode of Andor, minus the corny 70s dialogue.

Yes! Thinking about Biggs in this scene is specifically where I was coming from when thinking about the Rebel Alliance circa Rogue One / A New Hope.

Andor: The Rogue One Arc

not a Jedi apologist or a Jedi hater but a secret third thing

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I hope that we see Dantooine in season 2 of Andor. That would be cool.

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Andor has officially concluded filming:

or https://www.instagram.com/p/C3I3Y4WLbaE/?hl=en
 

I can’t remember another season of TV I’ve anticipated as much as this.
 

Jim Smith said:

I hope that we see Dantooine in season 2 of Andor. That would be cool.

That would be so cool to finally see.

“In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be “replaced” by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.” - George Lucas

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A short video with Diego Luna and Genevieve O’Reilly discussing what they may or may not have taken after shooting season 2 finished:

https://twitter.com/atiyaxa/status/1756410103538806971
 

Genevieve O’Reilly looks to be amazing in real life as her character in Andor. Terrific actress.

“The thing about Star Wars is that there’s one universe” & “Everyone wants to know stuff, like, where did Mace get that purple lightsaber? We want to establish that there’s one and only one answer” - Leland Chee, Continuity Database administrator for Lucasfilm, aka ‘Keeper of the Holocron’, 2008.

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Andor star Stellan Skarsgård says the “Star Wars show for grown-ups” will end on a high and hints at season 2 release date - at Games Radar

'He said: “It’s the last season of it. It ends where Rogue One starts so it’s up to that point. I think it will be very good as already the first one was satisfying for me because it’s sort of Star Wars for grown-ups – it’s a more realistic and complicated society that they’re living in and the claustrophobia of the fascist regime is palpable. I think we have a good season ahead of us.”

As to when that wait will come to an end, Skarsgård also shed some light on the expected Andor season 2 release date. In December 2023 the show was notably absent from Disney’s 2024 release schedule, dashing hopes that it will release this year. Despite being originally set for that, production was halted by both the WGA writers’ strike and the SAG-AFTRA actors’ strike.

However, it’s worth noting that no official statement has been made by Disney and according to Skarsgård, there is still a chance we will get our Andor fix this year… just much later than initially anticipated. He told us: “It will probably be out towards the end of the year or early next.” Just keep those eyes peeled then!’
 

I really hope so. I want them to take their time and get it right, but towards the ned of year or early next year would be great to finally see.

 
Edit. I found a 50 second video of the above Stellan Skarsgård interview on Andor season 2:

https://twitter.com/totalfilm/status/1762583408050405730

“Don’t tell anyone… but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories - let’s call them homages - and you’ve got a series.” - George Lucas

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It is like this video creator peered into my mind, encapsulated everything I feel about Andor, and more (and obviously put it far better than I ever could).
 

Andor Is A Star Wars Manifesto In 39 Million Minutes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6OG727d-0Y - 8 minute video from Spaceman
 

Yes, like a lot of others, they can take all the time they need to get this season ‘right’, although please also make it soon! Very soon 😉

I do also hope we finally see some behind the scenes or ‘making of’ content for season one.

“In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be “replaced” by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.” - George Lucas

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Andor is getting a physical media release!
 

‘Andor’ Gets Gorgeous 4K and Blu-Ray Collector’s Edition Steelbook Release - at Collider

The critically acclaimed ‘Star Wars’ series comes home with new art and special features in April.
 

 
'Disney is once again giving collectors a chance to bring home some of their most beloved Marvel Studios and Lucasfilm television shows from the past few years in 4K and Blu-ray releases. Ahead of its second season’s debut in 2025, Andor will be one of the four receiving a new collector’s edition Steelbook featuring all episodes of Season 1 in one sleek package. Starting on March 12, the three-disc release, featuring case artwork with the rugged and rebellious Cassian Andor (Diego Luna) done by Attila Szarka and collectible concept art cards showing off the vistas of the acclaimed Star Wars series, will be available to pre-order ahead of its April 30 release.

Debuting on Disney+ in September 2022, Andor was immediately hailed for taking a fresh, political thriller angle on the Star Wars universe that helped it stand out. Season 1 earned eight Emmy nominations, including for the coveted Outstanding Drama Series honor, though its highly-praised performances were surprisingly shut out. Luna, who reprised his role as the titular Andor from Rogue One, led a star-studded group that also included the returning Forest Whitaker and Genevieve O’Reilly as well as Kyle Soller, Stellan Skarsgård, Adria Arjona, Denise Gough, Varada Sethu, Elizabeth Dulau, Fiona Shaw, and Faye Marsay. A slew of major guest stars also made appearances, with one memorable turn coming from Andy Serkis as Kino Loy.

Across 12 episodes created by Tony Gilroy, Season 1 marked the beginning of Cassian Andor’s journey from a thief to a rebel hero of the highest order. It takes place in the five years leading up to Rogue One as the seeds of rebellion and unrest grow throughout the galaxy and Cassian searches for a way to make a difference. The series takes a wider look at the political infrastructure of the Star Wars universe, showing how planets and groups become wrapped up in the conflict with the Empire during a time when deception is commonplace and danger lurks around every corner. Season 2 recently wrapped filming and will bookend Cassian’s evolution into the driven revolutionary seen in Rogue One when the episodes air, likely bringing in a few more characters from the Gareth Edwards film along the way.’
 

‘Andor’ Breaks Down Its Most Memorable Moments With New Featurettes:

While fans wait for Season 2 to arrive, the Andor collector’s edition will bring with it some never-before-seen special features, breaking down some of the key moments from Season 1 and the overall making of the series. Gilroy, Luna, Kathleen Kennedy, and more will divulge how the series and its tense finale originated in a two-part Ferrix featurette, while others explore the series’s action setpieces and training, the stories on Coruscant, and the infamous prison break on Narkina 5 featuring the fan-favorite Kino Loy. See the list and description of the featurettes below:

  1. Ferrix Pt 1: Imperial Occupation - Tony Gilroy, Kathleen Kennedy, and Diego Luna discuss the series’ origins.
  2. Aldhani: Rebel Heist - Join the shoot in Scotland with character spotlights, rebel training, stunts, a VFX breakdown, and more.
  3. Coruscant: Whispers of Rebellion - Explore the stories of ISB agent Dedra, Senator Mon Mothma, and spymaster Luthen Rael.
  4. Narkina 5: One Way Out - Uncover the Empire’s penal system and the prison’s stark look, get to know Kino Loy, and view VFX breakdowns.
  5. Ferrix Pt 2: Fight the Empire - Tony Gilroy, Diego Luna, cast, and crew reveal the making of the season finale.

Andor Season 1 comes home, alongside three other Disney television series, with the new collector’s edition 4K and Blu-ray Steelbook on April 30. Pre-orders open on March 12. Get a look at the box art, discs, and collectible artwork cards above.’

 

22/03 Edit: It appears this is selling well:

 

 

https://twitter.com/TheSpaceshipper/status/1765040265159389190

'Andor + Star Tours 🤩

Starting April 5, 2024, Star Tours – The Adventures Continue will be taking you on some all-new adventures (in USA & France).

These new additions will feature characters and locations from Ahsoka, Andor and The Mandalorian.’
 

“In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be “replaced” by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.” - George Lucas

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I really hope that K-2SO will be handled properly in season 2. He’s in the unfortunate position of being a comic-relief character in a show which isn’t supposed to have comic relief. I worry that they’ll have to add in humor to make him fit in (or elsewise his portrayal will be inaccurate to Rogue One to accommodate the difference in tone.) Ideally, his quotes should come across as blunt/edgy, as opposed to comedic. It’s a minor thing, but the addition of comic relief would really change the feel of show, and not for the better.

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^ K-2SO is one of the best new characters introduced in Disney Star Wars. He’s a different sort of comic relief than C-3PO. Most of the humor with C3PO is other characters reacting to him, especially Han Solo getting pissed and always telling C3PO to shut up. K2SO is more about sarcastic quips, often involving his superiority to humans. Some of his best lines:

“I find that answer vague and unconvincing.”

“Not me. I can survive in space.” - after the human crew members lament the possibility of dying in space.

I am pretty confident that Tony Gilroy will properly handle K2SO in Season 2.

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One of the first scenes in this show is B2 being peed on, I don’t think levity is that off limits.

Andor: The Rogue One Arc

not a Jedi apologist or a Jedi hater but a secret third thing

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It wasn’t entirely devoid of laughs. Characters like Syril’s mother or his corporate security colleague lent it humour. You can have some gags without it turning into mugging and cringe inducing lines like the ST.

“I find that answer vague and unconvincing.”

“Not me. I can survive in space.” - after the human crew members lament the possibility of dying in space.

See I find the first one works and the second doesn’t, they just need to find a balance.

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some brief promo excerpts from the Andor season 1 steelbook release:

Gilroy & Skarsgård talk the unique nature of Luthen Rael: https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1783898991769293097

Diego Luna talks the making of Andor S1’s Aldhani arc: https://twitter.com/empiremagazine/status/1783149272600285625

B2/Ferrix making of: https://gizmodo.com/andor-4k-blu-ray-bonus-features-exclusive-star-wars-1851420888
 

20 second promo video for the Andor steelbook: https://twitter.com/starwars/status/1785383623362793564

Andor S1 steelbook menu screen: https://twitter.com/HDMOVIESOURCE/status/1782585770257084492

a 4 minute unboxing video for the Andor S1 steelbook: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbMNw_OqYe4 (at CinemaDeviant)

a 5 minute review of the steelbook: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iTzpHjk3bI (at MovieGuy365)

a 17 minute review, 4K UHD steelbook vs Disney+: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtBuixF09Ms (at Ealan Osborne)
 

 

a 1 minute clip of Tony Gilroy talking about Andor at his Writers Guild of America Award for Career Achievement:

https://twitter.com/WGAEast/status/1779687302102450416

^ Tony Gilroy: “I’ve had a lot of fun over the years, but I don’t know whether I’ve ever done anything as important as these 24 hours of storytelling we’re doing now.”

“Don’t tell anyone… but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories - let’s call them homages - and you’ve got a series.” - George Lucas

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Gandalf the Cyan said:

I really hope that K-2SO will be handled properly in season 2. He’s in the unfortunate position of being a comic-relief character in a show which isn’t supposed to have comic relief. I worry that they’ll have to add in humor to make him fit in (or elsewise his portrayal will be inaccurate to Rogue One to accommodate the difference in tone.) Ideally, his quotes should come across as blunt/edgy, as opposed to comedic. It’s a minor thing, but the addition of comic relief would really change the feel of show, and not for the better.

You make an excellent point.
Here’s my idea on how to work this, he’s a reprogrammed Imperial droid.
A facet of the reprogramming could be that is not reliable initially or the best done job and Cassian is, for a while, tweaking his work.
K2 feels comfortable around Cassian however around others he masks to try to hide any deficiencies in the reprogramming that may stand out to someone who knows how a K2 droid should behave.
His snark/comedy stuff could be played as a facet of how he interacts with others based on how much he feels he can let his guard down around them or even try to maintain some kind of upper hand.

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I was rewatching parts of Andor the other day. (God this show is awesome.) Anyway, I was rewatching the prison episodes and I realize that I don’t quite understand the “prison transfer scam” the Empire is supposed to be running.

Basically, we learn that the Empire discreetly murders an entire floor of prisoners because one prisoner from elsewhere was accidentally transferred there after serving out their full prison sentence. The idea is that, unbeknownst to the inmates, their prison sentences never really end. When a prisoner finishes serving their sentence, that prisoner is simply transferred elsewhere and begins serving a new sentence. Presumably this repeats until the prisoner dies, meaning that nobody ever gets out. But the Empire doesn’t want the general prison population to know about this (fearing the prisoners would lose motivation to work I guess) which is why the Empire decides to murder an entire floor of prisoners to prevent this information from leaking out.

Okay, maybe I’m an idiot, but I don’t really understand how this “prison transfer scheme” is supposed to work in general. So a prisoner finishes their sentence and then, instead of being released, is transferred to a second prison (or maybe a different floor of the same prison). But what prevents the transferred prisoner from telling the inmates in the second prison the truth? Maybe all the inmates in the second prison were also transferred there after serving out a sentence, and thus they all already know about the “transfer scam”? But if that’s the case, how does the Empire induce people in this “second prison” (where everyone knows they have no hope of ever getting out) to continue working? Maybe people in the “second prison” are not forced to work anymore? But if that’s the case, what’s the point of this whole “scam” in the first place? It costs the Empire money to house and feed prisoners, and if a prisoner isn’t working on building a Death Star or whatever the Empire is just wasting money keeping them confined for no reason. The Empire may as well just release the prisoners if they’re no longer working and they already served their sentence.

So can anyone clarify exactly how the Empire’s “prison transfer scam” is supposed to work?

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I imagine it’s like you said, the prisoners are transferred after serving their first sentence to another prison. I imagine that this new prison isn’t like the old one, but it could be similar. The prisoners could be given new sentences and put to work on new projects, and those who refuse the work are killed. There would probably be enough inmates who still believe they will be set free And/or who are resigned to the work that there’s still value in this scheme.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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I wouldn’t think so hard about it, after all slave labour in a universe filled with robot workers is nonsense to begin with.

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Well, the show pointedly says that they (humans) are “cheaper than droids and easier to replace.” It sets that state of play up very specifically. Even in real life multiple tasks one human guy could turn around, need multiple machines for the different tasks.

Slavery eliminates the cost of building droids in the first place, and in Star Wars those droids would basically be humans that need more maintenance than the nutri-sludge (oil changes, repairs, etc) anyway.

RE: the transfer scam, I think it was just feeding into the idea that the Empire is too arrogant. It’s not a scam they’ve been running, it came with the P.O.R.D. and no one thought it through to its inevitabilities.

Andor: The Rogue One Arc

not a Jedi apologist or a Jedi hater but a secret third thing

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Yeah they say that but realistically it’s more costly to need so many security measures, the guards, and all the prison transports, the legal systems, the secrecy, when droids and are so easily available that entire armies across the whole galaxy existed a few years ago. I’m not trying to tear down the storyline which was very good, but it’s just not something that I think holds up to much scrutiny.

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Yeah but it was the wealthy corporate alliance who had the droid armies. That meant something inside the prequels themselves, but importantly and especially feel like it means something in a show like Andor. Droids are purpose-built and have personhood in Star Wars to the point that it’s plausible to me that flexible human labor ends up cheaper.

Either way, it’s probably a Why Not? thing more than it is a real calculation. It’s not like we don’t have prison labor in our own world. the empire is evil, they’re trying to get as much out of everyone as possible

Andor: The Rogue One Arc

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Finite resources, humans building in factories, droids building in space.