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.: The XØ Project - Laserdisc on Steroids :. (SEE FIRST POST FOR UPDATES) (* unfinished project *) — Page 6

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nin, thanks for "revealing yourself" to the OT.com forums!

You might be interested to read this thread, in particular my post dated May 6th!

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Originally posted by: gltaylor74
Sorry if this is off topic, but I'm wondering if there were seperate U.S. and Japanese pressing of the definitive collection set like there was the Faces set?


Yes, there is, but I can't tell you if it's better or not. It was on ebay last week: link.

And nin, thanks for all the LD info, and for those X9/X0 screencaps. Really interesting stuff. What are your experiences with the 2950/925/909? I'd like to know what you have to say about those, how do they compare (I have a 909 and just got a 2950, but haven'y done a thorough comparison yet).

That's no moon. It's a LaserDisc.

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Well, the 925/2950/909 is the best PAL players around but they cannot hold a candle to the X9/X0. On a 29 inch CRT tv the difference will not be huge but on a high quality projector the difference is like between not watchable to very nice. The X9/X0 have a LOT better colors. The luma and chroma noise is VASTLY lower on the Xx players that those players. Sharpness & detail are also much improved. Everything is better. One can look at screenshots from the other DVD-R projects and see the difference in quality.

The difference between 2950 and 925 is that the 2950 should be a little better, according to a friend that tested both. The 909 is somewhat worse than the 925. I do have a PDI delux card and when I get my new computer I could take screenshots from the 925 and compare to the X0.

/Mattias
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Hey Grinder,

I think NIN said it great. I haven't used the players you mention but will give you my impressions of the X9. My first LD player was a Pioneer Elite CLD52, which was not very good. I then moved up to a brand new Elite CLD 79, which was much better. I used it with a Pioneer Elite 53" HDTV. I connected the 79 to the elite via a composite cable as the Elite HDTV has the same comb filter that is used in the X9, which tells you how good the X9's was since it's still used in the Elite CRT's and the Mits Diamond sets. The image quality was great.

However, once I found that Lucas was serious about not releasing the original versions of Star Wars, I set out for a better LD player. I ended up with the X9 and had a new laser, motor, belts, etc put in and had it adjusted by the best LD tech in the U.S., Duncan Hunter of www.laserdiscservice.com. I then hooked it up to the HDTV via S-video and put in a copy of the Faces version of Star Wars into both the CLD79 and the X9 at the same time. The difference was immediately noticeable from the opening crawl. Much better color, black levels, sharper image, and less noise. The 79, while a great player, just didn't compare.

I'd still love to see the X0. I thought about getting one of them but they are scarce, very heavy (it cost enough just to ship the X9 at 40lbs, let alone the X0 at 80!), and the single side only play kills it for me. For purposes of capturing for the project it should be great as I used to read it had better noise levels than the X9 due to it's design differences. The X9 relied on digital noise reduction while the X0 was designed for low noise without the need for DNR.
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I hear soooo many great things about the X0 and X9, but unfortunately I don't think I'll ever be able to drop several thousand dollars on a laserdisc player. I just picked up a CLD-79 last night off of Ebay.
To all of you that are fortunate to have the X0 or X9, what are the chances of having laserdiscs transferred from you guys? I'd like to have my Definitives captured to disc from an X0 or X9 source. I would just like to have each side of the LD's transferred to a disc (no need in editing them together or do anything else to them.... just interested in getting the raw data to disc). If I shipped a brand new set of the LD's to someone, would anyone be willing to transfer? I'd gladly pay for the time and materials it would take to do this. If anyone would be willing to do this, please let me know (email: rickwj324@juno.com).

Thanks!
RickWJ324

Originally posted by: gltaylor74
Hey Grinder,

I think NIN said it great. I haven't used the players you mention but will give you my impressions of the X9. My first LD player was a Pioneer Elite CLD52, which was not very good. I then moved up to a brand new Elite CLD 79, which was much better. I used it with a Pioneer Elite 53" HDTV. I connected the 79 to the elite via a composite cable as the Elite HDTV has the same comb filter that is used in the X9, which tells you how good the X9's was since it's still used in the Elite CRT's and the Mits Diamond sets. The image quality was great.

However, once I found that Lucas was serious about not releasing the original versions of Star Wars, I set out for a better LD player. I ended up with the X9 and had a new laser, motor, belts, etc put in and had it adjusted by the best LD tech in the U.S., Duncan Hunter of www.laserdiscservice.com. I then hooked it up to the HDTV via S-video and put in a copy of the Faces version of Star Wars into both the CLD79 and the X9 at the same time. The difference was immediately noticeable from the opening crawl. Much better color, black levels, sharper image, and less noise. The 79, while a great player, just didn't compare.

I'd still love to see the X0. I thought about getting one of them but they are scarce, very heavy (it cost enough just to ship the X9 at 40lbs, let alone the X0 at 80!), and the single side only play kills it for me. For purposes of capturing for the project it should be great as I used to read it had better noise levels than the X9 due to it's design differences. The X9 relied on digital noise reduction while the X0 was designed for low noise without the need for DNR.


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Oh I know the 2950/925/909 don't even come near the X0/X9/S9. There's no question about that. But I live in PAL land, so that's why I have PAL/NTSC players myself. I have been thinking about getting one of those top Japanese ones, but unless the final product of this project will blow me right off of the couch, I'm not willing to spend THAT much money. It's gone far out of hand already, with two players and over 150 discs )

That's no moon. It's a LaserDisc.

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Originally posted by: zion
nin, thanks so much for your help thus far. It's true that we got a better capture on our second try with a Japanese setup. I'm sure getting your players serviced and possibly tweaked combined with our modified PDI card and specialized hardware/software setup would make an even better capture. We'll definitely be in touch.

Does this mean you will do the capture again and all the cleanup work on the first capture is useless now? Basically you will start all over again?
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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Everything we do and intend to do to each shot and each frame is documented so that we have a reference. We're always on the lookout for better capture options, and in the event we receive a better capture, we can easily go back and do the same things to the new footage. (This is also where our TC print comes in very handy.) In reality, the things we're most concerned about right now are reducing the amount of "rot spots" in the video and the like. Having three copies of an LD captured via X0 and TooTed together would be the ultimate source.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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I think I should reiterate that the X0 version will be considerably better than the master that the LDs where pressed from, especially for widescreen TVs. So to the people looking to maybe buy an X9 or X0 to view SW, save your money - it won't look as good as our final product anyway! There is only a certain level of quality you can achieve from the LD's before things like color correction and dirt & scratch removal are even considered.

The X0 capture files we have at the moment are more than sufficient for most of the project, though some shots are subpar by nature of their LD pressings. What we are really looking for is captures from rare/alternate versions which may have detail that is lacking in our current versions (i.e. the Japanese SC set). I've lost track of time the past few days so I haven't gotten to compare sega's discs yet. I should have a go at it tonight.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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I agree with you. The version you are working on will look MUCH better than any LD used on a X9/X0. There is no video processor in the world that can restore and better the image in real time like you do. I would like to see a HD version of that, like 1280x720P or even 1920x1808P. I would think that would look AMAZING.
Love that you have put the effort to make it the best it could be.

/mattias
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Sorry about that last post. I hit enter before writing anything!


Anyway, for a relative newbie's sake, could someone explain some details of the XO project?

Specifically, is the plan just to transfer an existing version really, really well and leave it at that?

Personally, I think the best option would be strive for ultimate historical accuracy by including options for the different theatrical sound mixes, as well as an option to view the first film with the original opening crawl (or the best possible recreation) or the ANH version.

Thoughts?
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Originally posted by: zion
First and foremost, the project aims to be an archive preservation of the Original Star Wars Trilogy laserdiscs in the best quality possible. We are culling video from a number of different sets. These include, but are not limited to, the US Definitive Collection set, the US "Faces" set, and their Japanese equivalents.

Every single frame will be looked at and corrected. Fixes will be limited to dirt and film damage removal, color correction, and stabilization. Wherever possible we will be using the actual celluloid film for reference.

Glitches including matte lines, saber colors, and frame jumps will not be fixed in the initial version. A possible second version could include fixes to matte lines and garbage mattes, but keep the rest of the "glitches" intact.

The finished archive will form a perfect base for any future restoration project or fan edit we might do afterward.


It's in the very first post dude.
I think a version like you speak of would be cool and you can pretty much guarantee someone will do a version like that using the xo as their source.

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...and in the mean time, there's EditDroid!
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Ah wow. I never realised the difference was so stark.

How's the smearing on the SC? Is it affected by split sabre syndrome?

“I love Darth Editous and I’m not ashamed to admit it.” ~ADigitalMan

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I'm a little late discovering this project, I took a hiatus from SW after ROTS came out, and am just now returning to OT, since starting up my plans on a cleanup edit of ROTS.

I've already picked up so many invaluable tips...many thanx.

Everything you guys are doing looks excellent so far, I only wish Lucas had as much care and respect for his own original films that you guys are showing restoring them frame by frame.

I wish I could help you guys out in some way, I'll be checking your site out from time to time...best of luck.
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NIN,

Welcome aboard. It is nice to finally meet the X0 master.

Zion,

Wow. The SC version looks the best to me because there is a lot more detail. Will the extra noise be a problem to get rid of without sacrificing quality?


Patrick
"When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." - Tuco from The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
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Thats looks quite a huge difference seeing it as a small screen capture.
The details on the bottom of the star destroyer and death star are more defined and endor looks crisper.
How bad is the noise, distortion etc. compared to thx sets, from the point of view of how much more extra work it entails?
I guess you almost have to similate thx mastering with the software you have.
How advanced was the thx mastering back then ?
I suppose by today's digital standards it's quite primitive compared to some of the software available to people today.
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I don't have any doubt we'd be able to to a better job of cleaning it up than the THX gurus did back then. The real question is whether or not the quality difference is enough between our X0 Definitive/Faces captures and the SC. My screenshots there are not off an X0, and I can tell you the X0 cap puts that Faces shot to shame, though the detail in the star destroyer is still victimized by the temporal smoothing.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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[EDIT]

My bad. He was the original source. It's been so long, I got people confused.

(Okay, Arnie. Go ahead and edit your post so I don't look like a complete dingbat. )

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: nin
I'm alos the guy with the HLD-X0 that was original used for transfer.
Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
"Welcome aboard. It is nice to finally meet the X0 master."

Actually, with no disrespect intended, he is not the owner of the X0 used for the original capture. That person wishes to remain anonymous, and we certainly owe him a great debt of gratitude as well. The more X0 owners, the better. (Too bad that doesn't apply to anyone on the actual X0 team. )


This is confusing.



Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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Thanks for those caps, Zion. I think they demonstrate that:

a) The Special Collection is superior to the US pre-THX widescreen discs (beyond just the black level difference);

b) The Special Collection is superior to the THX discs (DefCol & Faces) in at least some cases.