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.: The X0 Project Discussion Thread :. (* unfinished project *) — Page 30

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Originally posted by: bongloads
There is a number of ways to usurp the legalities in whichever country you reside

I don't think that's true. There's a lot of fancy-ass disclaimers that infringers put on stuff, but none of that crap can stop a copyright holder from suing your ass off. And winning. Fortunately (for the infringers) the infringement is often such small potatoes and the infringer relatively not made of money that it's not really worth the time and effort to sue them. But C&D letters do get sent by the truckload, and as the RIAA has proven, even small-time infringers might one day end up with the threat of legal action.

hence they market duplication hardware in the first place.


The reason duplication hardware is allowed is because any sane societal model needs to allow for the small-scale duplication of homemade stuff -- like multiple backups of corporate data, storage of photos you've taken, recordings of music you've played -- that sort of thing. This hardware is not being allowed simply to copy stuff other people hold copyrights on (although even that is supposedly legal under "fair use" provisions). But even old-style "fair use" is nebulous enough that you can be sued (and lose). In the US, even the concept of "fair use" itself is under some sort of question, with the recent Grokster suits. Under some of the more draconian legislation I've heard bandies about, even companies like Microsoft could be liable for infringement, for simply providing a piece of software (Windows) that can be used to enable infringement. Total bull, but that's what copyright holders are working towards.

Not to mention the fact that an anonymous post to newsgroups is completely untraceable to the originator, making you safer than an armoured car


If you think anything you post to newsgroups can ever be done totally anonymously, then I believe you've got another think coming. With enough legal pressure applied, any ISP that wants to keep operating as a viable business will eventually cave and give up all the information needed to at least send a C&D letter.

I still maintain that the X0 Project should keep everything completely on the up-and-up. No need to tempt fate. Part of what I've enjoyed about the X0 Project so far is that the articles are so not capture-specific, or even hardware- or software-specific. You can make your own best cap (like I'm working on for myself), and use the ideas from the X0 site to improve your own work.

Hell, you could even take someone else's finished product and make it better on your own!
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I don't know about your service, but UNS only keeps logs for 48 hours (for spammers). And if it's really a concern, you can always up at a university or bounce your pings off someone else. And you think Sony didn't know what they were getting themselves into when they started offering DVD burners? Without "piracy", there would be no DVDR sales, burner sales, high-speed connections, etc. And they know this, which is why you will likely never see the light of a summons. Your ISP is also well aware of the fact that people are downloading massive amounts of data, and the reason you do - thus, they will go to any means necessary to protect their customers. Because without us, they have nothing. Look, if you want me to drive down to wherever and personally pick up a copy of the raw capture, I will do it. Because there is simply no way I can create a better one without very expensive hardware, like the HLD-X0. And the other captures that exist cannot be made any better, because, well, you can't put back what ain't there. And according to your gospel, there is nothing "up-and-up" about the Project, so let's just be honest with ourselves here and understand that it is the best thing that's gonna happen to the Star Wars OOT until George dies and someone enters his fantastic vault to make the real-deal. If this project is not going to be made available, then let's stop talking about it altogether, because I don't like to be teased with something I can't have.


"I am the instrument of His will."
sigs are for teh gheys
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Originally posted by: Karyudo
Not to mention the fact that an anonymous post to newsgroups is completely untraceable to the originator, making you safer than an armoured car


If you think anything you post to newsgroups can ever be done totally anonymously, then I believe you've got another think coming.

I've posted virtually totally anonymously to usenet in the past, this was a very long time ago, I bounced the connection through a few Windows machines across the globe that hadn't had a certain port closed so they acted as relays. The chances of all the machines having incoming/outgoing connection logs turned on was very slim considering the owners didn't know the built-in redirection port wasn't shut down, or that it even existed.

As for the OOT existing in digital form at a higher quality than a laserdisc capture, I bet someone out there does have it but wouldn't release it somehow even if they wanted to for fear of being tracked down.

Imagine the OOT with properly corrected colours, no grain/dirt and without any motion smearing... I don't recall the X0 team saying anything about being able to 'undo' the motion smearing
http://www.haku.co.uk/pics/LukeCruise.gif http://www.haku.co.uk/pics/dontcare.gif
***Citizen's NTSC DVD/PAL DVD/XviD Info and Feedback Thread***
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"Imagine the OOT with properly corrected colours, no grain/dirt and without any motion smearing... I don't recall the X0 team saying anything about being able to 'undo' the motion smearing "

Correcting the colors and removing the dirt is technically very easy (and is being worked on as we speak......er, type), but removing "motion smearing" is getting a little dangerous, as you risk adding visual information as much as changing it. I'm curious to know which scenes in partiular you are talking about, since motion blur can be a good thing (which is precisely why Lucas developed motion control.)

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Are you talking about laserdisc player induced smearing, or the 'trails' on the masters due to the horrible temporal cleaning algos used on the THX versions?
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To borrow the famous Sixth Sense phrase; I see smeared people...

I can see the smearing throughout almost the entire films, I'm talking about the temporal smoothing of one frame to the next in an attempt to reduce the grain of the film footage before it was mastered to laserdisc, that's the sole reason I tried the 5x capture & merge thing so I end up with a cleaner capture of the laserdiscs and don't have to use temporal because they already did that and further smoothing just makes things look worse.

MeBeJedi, yeah if you try and undo the temporal smoothing you get into some serious dangerous waters, like how would the algorhythm differentiate between normal motion bluring and added temporal bluring, I've never heard of it being achieved.

If I had the money/resources I'd be looking into doing an 8mm transfer of my own, but I don't so I'm stuck with the smeared laserdiscs
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***Citizen's NTSC DVD/PAL DVD/XviD Info and Feedback Thread***
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So - is there any merit in a capture from one of the older laserdiscs, where this "dirt concealment" algorithm has not been applied, and trying to clean it up using 2005 processing techniques?

Makes more sense than taking the later transfer and trying to "undo" the algorithm to remove the motion trails.

However, I suspect the older laserdiscs suffer from other, more serious, defects in the transfer quality.

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Anyone know what the percieved resolution of 8mm is? Would it really be superior to laserdisc? I would have thought you'd have to go to 16mm to get DVD quality.
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In my experience, 8mm has roughly the same resolution as NTSC/PAL (roughly because film has no "fixed" resolution - it's just a coating of silver halides whose size tends to increase with the ASA speed). 16mm is roughly HD and 35 is 4k.

But even if you do transfer the 8mm or 16mm prints, me thinks they'd be in terrible shape, not to mention the fact that they'd more than likely be pan and scan...YUCK. Although I have come across a few nice 16mm anamorphic prints. I remember finding "They Live!" once. Ooo! Those reds never looked nicer!

(- I've walked a white line my entire life, I'm not about to screw that up.
-White line's in the middle of the road, that's the worst place to drive.)

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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It all depends on the film stock. A good, low grain Super8 film stock can deliver 720P without trouble if it is an anamorphic print. A good 16mm anamorphic print exceeds 1080P as long as it isn't on high speed stock, and both will have more colour than can be represented on DVD.

You would need to find a 'collectors print' that has only been shown a few dozen times or less. If it is on decent stock, then fading won't be much of an issue, but most of them are on Eastman stock and are nice and pink, or nice and green by now. Not to mention battered to hell.
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Interesting… thanks for that info. It ages since I’ve seen 8mm projected, didn’t realise it was up to those standards. Most of the 16mm dupes of Star Wars I’ve seen on ebay were scope. Seeing as not many people have access to professional telecline equipment I wonder what it would look like if someone attempted to scan the frames with a regular scanner…
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Oh man...I pity da fool whoever attempted THAT....

Do you have any idea how many frames would need scanning? In the words of Monty Python, "A Lot"

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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Around 172,800 for each film, right? I bet there are people out there who are dedicated enough! You could probably scan about 20 frames in one go on an A4 scanner…
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If Stanley Kubrick could make a duplicate of his personal print of "Dr. Strangelove" (to serve as the master for the 1994 30th anniversary re-release) with a Nikon SLR and a slide copier attachment, surely somebody can scan an 8mm or 16mm print of "Star Wars" with some fancy electronical thingamajig.
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Yeah, 172800 frames for a 2hr movie, so if you managed to manually scan 1 frame each and every minute and save it out to disk, and then move the film ready to scan the next frame, then it will only take 2880 hours to capture the entire movie in via a flatbed scanner or SLR with slide attachment, which is only 360 days if you did it for 8hrs a day every day. So you could knock it over in a year, and still get 5 days off.
Then all you would have to do is load each frame and register them (to negate any rotation or position movement because of how you laid it on the scanner) and then join them into a movie, and then start on dust and scratch removal etc.
So it just needs some time and dedication.
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Originally posted by: Citizen
I think you just won the "Understatement of the Century" award


It is a trait we colonials inherited from the old country.

I say we do a dawn raid on the Lucasfilm archives... Who's with me?


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Ready and strapped with an AK! Let's go!
sigs are for teh gheys
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Do we want to free hat, or are we offering free hats?
ILM have been holding hat hostage for far too long I say.
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"It is a trait we colonials inherited from the old country."

Funny, I thought the British just sent a bunch of criminals and miscreants there.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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...where Laserman is.
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Put another shrimp on the bah-bie!

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.