logo Sign In

.: The Lancer DVD Project :. (* unfinished project *) — Page 4

Author
Time
Post link
Thassalottatracks! I was just talking in another thread about how nice it would be to have a disc put out that had all of the varied tracks on it. But I also recognized the fact that said edition would have to seriously sacrifice video quality in order to do so. Beastly said that MeBeJedi had been working on one but ended up letting it go as the amount of tracks out there begin to multiply past what was technically realistic. (My God, are there really that many different tracks out there??)

I would say that for your disc, since you have obviously put so much time and effort into the video process, that you might want to think about ditching one of the audio tracks. Perhaps the 5.1 (since you will have a PCM on there).

Also, if you aren't stuck on "motion" menus, perhaps you can just make some really snazzy still ones. It would save more room.

All of this is, of course, taking into consideration that you do end up trying to fit the DTS track in there as well. I think it would be outstanding if done correctly. But obviously seriously pushing the limits of what even a dual layered disc could handle. Perhaps you should take a poll of what people would rather see (motion menus, DTS track, 5.1, etc.), if you are interested in everyone's opinions on it. Personally, seeing everything you have listed as far as what you have done visually... I am inclined to say that listening to a DTS track (done right) while watching those images would make me forgive the fact that there was no fancy menu screens or optional 5.1 sound. Besides, at this point I kind of thought everyone had DTS capabilities (and chose wisely to USE them).

A long time ago in the faraway galaxy...

Star War: The Third Gathers
Backstroke Of The West

Author
Time
Post link
that's a fair comment. the point here is obviously, if I have 5.1 DTS, then there is no need for 5.1 Dolby Digital. However what I will say, as this is NOT a proper 5.1 DTS mix produced by a studio I wonder if there is any point. the sound is being created from an original PCM track so perhaps 5.1 DD is the way to go after all.

so, we have a choice.

1. 5.1 DTS, mono soundtrack, commentary track, motion menus, film
2. 5.1 DTS, PCM 2.0 sound, basic menus, film
4. half bitrate 5.1 DTS track, pcm 2.0 sound, mono soundtrack, commentary track, motion menus, film (theoretically possible based on my calculations, 1gb for dts, 1.3 pcm, 300 commentary, 300 mono, 5gb film, leaves 500 for menus. bear in mind for a half rate DTS track, that is still 200kbps higher than a full bitrate 5.1 dolby digital track. )
3. 5.1 Dolby Digital, PCM 2.0 sound, mono soundtrack, commentary track, motion menus, film


Update

don't forget, the official dvd from 2004 is only 5.5gb ish for the video file so that leaves 3gb of space for sound and menus. possible on a dual layer disc.
When a woman says yes, she means no - when she says maybe, she means no.

http://www.auky37.dsl.pipex.com/falconlogo_web.jpg
Author
Time
Post link
follow the link to download a small xvid version of my upcoming dvd menu.

animated it will be, yes mmmm.....

now I just got to figure it all out properly in maestro to make it work.

yousendit link
When a woman says yes, she means no - when she says maybe, she means no.

http://www.auky37.dsl.pipex.com/falconlogo_web.jpg
Author
Time
Post link
that link does not work, at least for me
Author
Time
Post link
try this one:

yousendit link


Those menus should be pretty nice. One thing, the audio gets alot louder during the chapter selection part.
Author
Time
Post link
Very nice menus tellan, similar to some of my ANH menu experiments. One suggestion though: I don't know if it's your test file or not, but the audio for the main menu sounds a lot quieter than the rest of the menus. You might want to double check and make sure everything is normalized throughout the whole menu system - and at the same level as the movie for that matter. Otherwise great job!

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

Author
Time
Post link
yeah, the audio is out of whack, then again, I think that is a clear sign of double checking needed after 8 hours straight at the computer. corrections being made now.
When a woman says yes, she means no - when she says maybe, she means no.

http://www.auky37.dsl.pipex.com/falconlogo_web.jpg
Author
Time
Post link
Tellan, this project sounds very promising. I previewed the Darth Editous release, and found those pink and magenta blaster flashes in the Tantive corridor very distracting (not DE's fault, of course) so I'm glad to hear you've attempted to fix them.

So you've restored the original Han/Greedo scene? As noted in the DE thread, the scene on his edit looked a bit clumsy with the additional shot from the SE inserted.

Guidelines for post content and general behaviour: read announcement here

Max. allowable image sizes in signatures: reminder here

Author
Time
Post link
I have encoded my menus into a DVD form for comments.

scored with music, effects and transistions. this is the final form I'm going with unless someone comes up with something I haven't thought of/better suggestion.

Comments and criticisms welcome.

if you like them , don't just drool, tell me why.

if you don't like them, same. tell me what you dislike.

http://s55.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=26716K5UHDRZS2JF5EKUNPADJO

LINK TO MENUS

@ MOTH3R : I will upload my corrected greedo scene for you to take a look at.
When a woman says yes, she means no - when she says maybe, she means no.

http://www.auky37.dsl.pipex.com/falconlogo_web.jpg
Author
Time
Post link
Moth3r

here it is, the link for the greedo scene.

this is wookiegroomer style frame comparison with both versions visibile on screen at the same time.

at the top is a LD OT scene from my old LD capture. this was 29.97 footage, pulled back to 23.976 and then speeded up to 25fps PAL to match my new file.

the new file is adapted 2004 DVD footage and resized for this comparison.

link for greedo scene
When a woman says yes, she means no - when she says maybe, she means no.

http://www.auky37.dsl.pipex.com/falconlogo_web.jpg
Author
Time
Post link
This sounds like a great project. Good job so far, Tellan! As far as the soundtracks go, I would think that with DTS 5.1, why is the PCM needed? I would suggest putting in the mono soundtrack, for the many audio differences, with the DTS and drop the PCM audio. It would be a repeat of the same audio. A well-done DTS track would be great to have on a set.

EDIT: After thinking a bit, would there be any notible difference in audio quality by going with Dolby 5.1, given the source is PCM audio?. Dolby is much smaller, after all.
Author
Time
Post link
well this is question I have been wrestling with.

The 5.1 surround, whether it be Dolby or DTS is just a digital frig from the PCM track.

I've used Adobe Audition, Sound Forge and Nuendo to make it and I've isolated a lot of the speech out of the Front Left and Front right channels, making a fairly reasonable Dolby Digital track including an LFE channel. however, what is peoples opinion on this?

would you prefer

a)
PCM 2.0 track
Mono audio
Commentary from 2004 DVD
Commentary from LD
Isolated Score Track

b)
5.1 DTS full bitrate track
Mono audio
Commentary from 2004 DVD
Commentary from LD
Isolated Score Track

c)
5.1 Dolby Digital
PCM 2.0 track
Mono audio
Commentary from 2004 DVD
Commentary from LD
Isolated Score Track

I am torn here. At the end of the day, a PCM 2.0 stereo will at best give you pseudo surround through your amplifier. Whereas, the 5.1 track I've constructed is based on this PCM track but will be 'properly' surround through the amplifier. However also consider this. a PCM track is uncompressed audio 2 channel audio at 1536 kbps. making a file in this case 1.313gigs in size. A DTS track has the same bitrate but that allowance is spread over 6 sound channels, rather than the 2 of PCM. however, it's a damn sight less compressed than Dolby Digital 5.1 which has a bitrate of 448kbps for all 6 tracks in the mix.


or

would you want both to be present on the disc? (bear in mind though you can't have full rate DTS and PCM without sacrificing 3 of the other four audio tracks due to space restrictions. however, PCM AND dolby can fit with the other four tracks present.)

if it's just PCM, then I save at a minimum 500mb of disc space. if you'd rather have the Dolby 5.1, then I save 1.3GB of disc space by dumping the 2.0 PCM track. If you'd rather DTS only , then I save the 500mb of the dolby 5.1 not being present and the DTS replaces the PCM in the disc budget.

So not to sidetrack too much.

1. comments on the menus welcome please.

2. comments regarding sound welcome.
When a woman says yes, she means no - when she says maybe, she means no.

http://www.auky37.dsl.pipex.com/falconlogo_web.jpg
Author
Time
Post link
I think that having both a DTS 5.1 track and the PCM Dolby Surround track would be unnecissary repitition. The only problem with DTS only would be some people's players can't play DTS. But the DTS does have the same bitrate as the PCM. One would have to see if there is really that much of an audible difference.
Sure, the 5.1 track is created, but if done right, the discrete channels should be better than matrixed, even with Pro-Logic. Therefore, I vote for either B or C.
Author
Time
Post link
I vote for the DTS, since I can get PCM on any old set and already have a set with 5.1
Author
Time
Post link
Tellan, I think the Greedo clip is excellent. If you look closely you can see a momentary pause in the video (I assume you had to lengthen the shot somehow), but it's hardly noticeable - in fact, I didn't see it first time around.

As for sound comments, well, I've expressed my feelings on artificially created 5.1 mixes on previous occasions, and I seem to be in the minority, so I'll leave it at that.

Guidelines for post content and general behaviour: read announcement here

Max. allowable image sizes in signatures: reminder here

Author
Time
Post link
Sound option c) seems to include everything a) has.
Would a) leave room for a higher video bitrate ?
Either way, I'd still choose c) because the video increase (if there is any) probably wouldn't be noticeable (certainly not on my equipment)

However, in practice you must take into account the “fuckwit factor”. Just talk to Darth Mallwalker…
-Moth3r

Author
Time
Post link
I vote for any release with any stereo, mono, both commentaries and an isolated mix (Isomix or Editdroid?? Which one won in the end??).

If I had to choose, it would be option c.

That kind of re-creates the EditDroid ANH V1 but with a better version of the mono mix, the extra 3 sountracks and DVD quality video as well.

The menu's look fab too and use an approach that I have never seen used before.

However, more than anything, I am looking forward to seeing the final product after the hundred or so e-mails, more than one total change in direction, several video clips, dozens of comparison screenshots and quite a few snail mail packages.............

If the whole package is only half as good as I think it will be we are in for a stunning release.


So, when do we start on Empire???

4 - 5 - 3 - 1 - 6 - 2

Discuss…

Author
Time
Post link
Tellan,

I confess I haven't really been following the work on your Lancer project until recently. Now that I see you're incorporating a mono soundtrack, many of DE's outstanding changes, PLUS tips from mverta, I'm hooked. I only wish the links to your screenshots and video samples were still active.

I have a few comments and questions:

I downloaded the sample menus, and they look great. My only issue is that the tumbnails for the chapters look a little small. Have you considered going with fewer, bigger thumbnails on each chapter page? As they are now, they work on the computer monitor, but I don't know how well they would work on a medium sized TV screen.

As far as the soundtracks go, are they all done? If they are, I say try to use them all. Maybe you can make two versions of the DVD: a dual layer version with all soundtracks, and a single layer version with option C. I wouldn't recommend doing only option B, since the DTS will be unplayable on some systems (like mine).

This may be a stupid question, but what version of the soundtrack ('85, '93, '97, '04) is the basis of the PCM 2.0, 5.1 DTS, and 5.1 Dolby Digital tracks?

IMHO, this release seems like it deserves the full dual layer treatment, regardless of the soundtrack issue. I'd hate to lose even the slightest amount of visual detail.

Do you have an expected release date for ANH?

Thanks!
Erik

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

Author
Time
Post link
we are in the final stages. there is one final reverse in direction I am considering regards the sound but I need to tinker some more to see if it will work so I'll keep silent on that for now.

the sample menus I'm going to test on my TV to see how that looks. the thumbnails aren't small as such. consider the fact that the official DVd has 5 to 6 thumbs per page as well so size isn't the issue.

when I release this thing as a dual layer and single layer version, only the dual layer version will feature all the soundtrack options. I am not prepared to blow off visual quality after about 9 months of working in all the changes and colour correction. the Darth Editous version shows you can get a perfectly acceptable visual quality from the 2004DVD on a single layer disc with one soundtrack so that is my basic benchmark for visual quality to shoot for. bear in mind that on a dual layer 9GB disc the official release video is only 5.7GB. the rest of the space is 3 menus at 200-250mb each + 400mb 5.1 ac3 file, 200mb commentary file + THX optimiser.

I'm looking to weigh in at about 6GB for my video file and no more to leave room for 200mb of menus and all the soundtracks.

the basic sound is taken from the DE LD edition + snippets from the 97 SE and 2004 DVD for some of the remaining 2004 scenes that are retained.

expected release date is soon. I've just gone back to work after 12 days off. that break allowed me to get the sound all synced up and ready to go and the menus done. the remaining thing is to output my master file for conversion to DVD. I have instructions for a method to get the dual layer break where I want it and not just where the software will dump it so hopefully I can time it to end up at a scene change with no music to help hide the momentary stutter endemic to layer changes.
When a woman says yes, she means no - when she says maybe, she means no.

http://www.auky37.dsl.pipex.com/falconlogo_web.jpg
Author
Time
Post link
@ moth3r regarding the greedo clip.

yes you're right, there is a slight pause and it's simple to explain why for those interested.

basically, to make the new 'crap' greedo shot work with the shooting over the table etc without lengthening the film any further was cut about 20-25 frames out of the shot where Han says "Yes, I bet you have" some from the beginning, some from the end.

basically by repeating two frames 3 times each and slowing down his hand gesture at the end by a certain percentage, I could cover the gap of the missing frames and keep the scene timing the same as the original, right down to the shooting, greedo cut away (for 1 frame) and the table smoke.

it's such a quick scene that unless you really scrutinize it, + have another version available for comparison its something that passes unnoticed. (I hope)

When a woman says yes, she means no - when she says maybe, she means no.

http://www.auky37.dsl.pipex.com/falconlogo_web.jpg
Author
Time
Post link
"Because it's a real place in Tunisia that some of us have visited and it means something to us."

You've been there? That's cool!

Tellen, how did you make your 5.1 soundtrack?

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
Post link
@mebejedi.

using adobe audition to create the mono wavs for each channel
sonic foundry soundforge to scan the track for the normalisation values for the Sonic scenarist Ac3 encoder to then encode it.

I know that's a short answer but it's getting late here and I think this question really deserves a fuller answer which we can put into the relevant forum for everyone to learn from.

its not hard, but it does take a bit of trail and error + time to do.
When a woman says yes, she means no - when she says maybe, she means no.

http://www.auky37.dsl.pipex.com/falconlogo_web.jpg
Author
Time
Post link
Tellan - Russ should be getting you the I.S. 5.1 audio files soon - BEST of luck on your Project!!!!!!!!!!!

If you need any other audio tracks LET ME KNOW!

RiK

“My skill are no longer as Mad as the once were” RiK

Author
Time
Post link
thanks for that ric, might I ask you drop me the torrent link via PM as well just in case he has problems. then he doesn't have to fart around sending it to me. and it saves us some time.

thanks again for doing that.
When a woman says yes, she means no - when she says maybe, she means no.

http://www.auky37.dsl.pipex.com/falconlogo_web.jpg
Author
Time
Post link
I got that audio file. Thanks for that.

It was ready to go off th Tellan but I have a few more things to do now before I get to the post office..............

Watch this space.

4 - 5 - 3 - 1 - 6 - 2

Discuss…