The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 230

Bingowings said:

It might be possible to replace Yoda with another character in the few instances where a character in an essential scene is necessary for reaction purposes.

He could also contact the other Jedi as a disembodied telepathic voice from a hidden area for the duration of the PT (like Vader does to Luke in ESB).

      Sounds like the hologram trick.

      Queen of Naboo in makeup? Admiral Akbar with a brief report of the galactic military situation? Senator Mothma?

      Qui as another disembodied voice? Sends Obi to Yoda?

Angel said:

TheoOdo said:

Also, I feel the invasion sequences of Naboo needs to be made more ominous. Currently, the lighting is very cheery (at best neutral) daylight.

Mock-up:

I did this kind of mockups back then similar to yours. Giving TPM a more serious tone. Not sure if anyone remembers them :)

Forgive the naboo ship shot :/

 

-Angel

 

      Those are very beautiful! Great to see the weather match the action.

If prune face Palpatine is his true face and normal Naboo politician faced Palpatine is the disguise perhaps that globe thing from TPM is a power source for his mask.

Palpatine could have had access to it when it was in the Royal palace, used enough of it's energy to establish his alter ego and tried to obtain it permanently.

After it's given to the Gungans at the end of TPM it could be put on display in the Chancellor's office as a sign of the union between the Gungan and Naboo people and peace in general.

We see Palpatine has plenty of art objects in his office but these could be just a means of disguising the globe's true use.

When Mace goes to arrest him the globe could be smashed, making his true face come through and return permanently.

It would also serve as a metaphor for the shattering of peace.

Bingowings said:

If prune face Palpatine is his true face and normal Naboo politician faced Palpatine is the disguise perhaps that globe thing from TPM is a power source for his mask.

Palpatine could have had access to it when it was in the Royal palace, used enough of it's energy to establish his alter ego and tried to obtain it permanently.

After it's given to the Gungans at the end of TPM it could be put on display in the Chancellor's office as a sign of the union between the Gungan and Naboo people and peace in general.

We see Palpatine has plenty of art objects in his office but these could be just a means of disguising the globe's true use.

When Mace goes to arrest him the globe could be smashed, making his true face come through and return permanently.

It would also serve as a metaphor for the shattering of peace.

I always assumed that Palpatine was simply thousands of years old, explaining his severely withered face.

It's heavily implied that Palpatine is the apprentice of Darth Plageuis of the Sith legend "The Tragedy of Darth Plageuis the Wise". If the events of this story had occurred only a few decades before, it would hardly count as a legend.

The Sith as a large group with received lore and shared myths have been extinct for a millennia, meaning that Palpatine may be from this ancient era and used Plageuis's ability to "keep those he cares about from dying" to sustain himself unnaturally for thousands of years. At some point, he must have infiltrated a noble family of Naboo and worked his way into politics, with the intention of setting up an Empire which would allow him to achieve ultimate power.

I also always assumed that the reveal of Palpatine's withered face was a result of him having been struck by his own lightening, that being on the receiving end of his own power and malice weakened him to such a degree that he could no longer maintain his youthful form.

That's pretty much the established line but A) the effects look awful on screen and B)the lack of any foreshadowing looks like Lucas pulled the idea out of his hat just to get a wrinkly prune face Emperor with a suited Vader in the final reel.

Having the globe thing introduced into early shots in TPM and hidden in the background of the other PT films and having Palpatine lose his disguise when it is broken, gives the globe a function and allows for the sort of subtle transitions that Bob Garcia has been playing with.

I think that inserting a "device" or a specific explanation for Palpatine's transformation is going too far.  Star Wars walks the fine line of science fantasy best when the mystical elements are handled in a more offhand manner that kind of just asks you to roll with it.  It's why the midichlorians were such a betrayal of the mythology.

I don't think you need to actually explain HOW palpatine's appearance changes......I just think it will work better if its clarified that the scared face is his true visage, and the human face is the deception.  If the sith lighting does anything.....it merely forces the truth to be revealed.  There are many ways to do that, including having him appear scared but in shadow beforehand in some manner.

jonathan7 said:

Sepharih said:

The biggest problem I foresee with this is that it might wind up removing whatever tension there is in the podrace since the viewer effectively has no idea who Anakin is as a character or why they should care about him.

One of the big problems with the Pod-race I think though is there is a lack of tension anyway, there was never a point that I didn't think Anakin would win. It's a point the Phantom Editor makes in his commentary of Attock of the Clones. That the Prequels are a bit like a bad horror film, you already know what's going to happen there isn't any suprises. Where as the OT I think often surprised you... (Well at least until RotJ).

 

Well in fairness, that's a weakness inherent in almost any sort of prequel.....but I don't know if this would really help matters or just exacerbate them since you've removed most of Anakin's character development.  Maybe in the end it *would* be a stronger and more appropriate characterization to focus on Ani as the daring and bold Pilot, rather than the altruistic youth.  It's just a concern I would have.

I don't think it's in the same league as the midichlorians as a proposed explanation.

Is the holy grail pseudo science?

Is the ark of the covenant?

It could be an ancient Sith artifact that Palpatine wanted to retrieve that the people of Naboo hold without remembering what it originally was for.

The observation that it's used as a symbol of peace could be because it was taken from an ancient Sith warrior when he was defeated but it's so long ago people have forgotten the specifics.

Sith lightning in general couldn't do that to him so even in the established storyline Palpatine himself has something 'odd' about him to end up with that look.

BarBar Jinkx said:

The biggest gripe I have with it is that Yoda doens't even try, he gives up like a punk and runs with his tales between his legs,

What if we could have a bit of Qui Gon dialog (a la luke's trench run) were he tells him to run and that there will be another time to defeat him.

what do you think guys?

While that does seem like a viable solution for improving the sequence, I think cutting it out is probably better, as CGI Yoda jumping around can get quite irritating.

If one really wanted to keep this, I would suggest it as a bit of a surreal sequence.. like the Cave. It would end with Yoda falling down into some dark abyss (underneath the Senate seats) and then cut to him meditating on the Tantive IV. I don't think Palpatine would be that unguarded physically, and a mental failure would really indicate to the audience that the Jedi have utterly failed. (I believe someone actually suggested this before.)

TheoOdo said:

I always assumed that Palpatine was simply thousands of years old, explaining his severely withered face.

i always thought that it would add to yoda's legend that yoda slew the last sith, (which would be really old palpatine) but failed, which could introduce an entire revenge subplot. (perhaps even an opening prologue to the saga?)

PERSONALLY, i never like the idea of the SITH, as they are never mentioned by name in the OT (i know they are in the script and the novels). I really just like the idea that Jedi as a whole sometimes just go bad.

SIDIOUS was perhaps just a mastermind bad jedi. Maybe once on the council, maybe even Yoda's old master? Thinking like captain black from captain scarlet.

Bingowings said:

I don't think it's in the same league as the midichlorians as a proposed explanation.

Is the holy grail pseudo science?

Is the ark of the covenant?

It could be an ancient Sith artifact that Palpatine wanted to retrieve that the people of Naboo hold without remembering what it originally was for.

The observation that it's used as a symbol of peace could be because it was taken from an ancient Sith warrior when he was defeated but it's so long ago people have forgotten the specifics.

Sith lightning in general couldn't do that to him so even in the established storyline Palpatine himself has something 'odd' about him to end up with that look.

To clarify: I'm not saying that such an explination is equivocal to the midichlorians.  It's nowhere near that level....i'm simply citing it as an example of why less is usually more in the realm of Space Fantasy and of Star Wars.  It's not strictly about providing a scientific explanation and thus demystifying something....but also about overly explaining something and thus removing the mystery of it.

As a better comparison, I would liken it to having the prequels try and explain specifically why the cave on Dagobah has a strong connection to the darkside of the force.  Such a thing is good fodder for the expanded universe....but within the context of the movies removes the mystery and the wonder of it.  Keeping it vague makes it more interesting....

I think we all agree that the best explanation for Palpatine's appearance was the implicit idea of him being corrupted by the darkside over the years since his appearance in the prequels.....but GL tossed that out the window in EPIII and all but made it impossible for anyone to restore that.  Perhaps wisely since, judging by the Mace and Palpatine fight, Mcdiarmid isn't quite as intimidating without the makeup.

Barring the ability to restore that....I don't feel it's necessary to explain specifically why/how Palpatine can hide his true appearance.  I just think it needs to be clarified that he is hiding his true appearance and that the force lightning is incidental.  Currently, I do believe that is the official explination anyway....but it's not well conveyed in the context of the film.

Bingowings said:

I don't think it's in the same league as the midichlorians as a proposed explanation.

Is the holy grail pseudo science?

Is the ark of the covenant?

It could be an ancient Sith artifact that Palpatine wanted to retrieve that the people of Naboo hold without remembering what it originally was for.

The observation that it's used as a symbol of peace could be because it was taken from an ancient Sith warrior when he was defeated but it's so long ago people have forgotten the specifics.

Sith lightning in general couldn't do that to him so even in the established storyline Palpatine himself has something 'odd' about him to end up with that look.

I think Bob García is playing with the idea of showing Palpatine as the exaggeration of what a Sith reppresents in terms of passionality.

When Windu confronts him, Palpatine stands up in anger and things start to heat: the lights behave strange, there comes a low-frequency sound, and he is so possesed by his hate that even his face gets pruned.

The ultimate proof of this "extreme non handling of wrath" would be the force lighting, which was distinctive of him till Dooku used it too, weakening the Emperor's character.

In the end, IMO this all would have been much easier and more coherent if the Emperor's face had its reason in his age; if there were more than only 20 years between ROTS and ANH.

ObiWan speaks of the Jedi in ANH with such romanticism that convinced me that the events he told Luke happened 40-50 years before. Same with ROTJ; that idea that remained floating in the air, of Anakin somehow confronting the emperor and being defeated...I know Im deviating from what we're discussing now, but If someone ever wants to make the PT half a century before the OT then he will have to deal with Luke being Vader's son and not Anakin's. With this I mean of course, splitting in the timeline the rise of the Empire and the birth of Luke and Leia.

Maybe ObiWan supported the Empire in its beggining? Maybe the foolish idealistic crusade was to believe exactly the opposite the PT shows us; ObiWan and Anakin were the only Jedi to support the Reppublic turning into a "presidential reppublic", not knowing what was gonna come up next...ObiWan doesn't have to have a perfect past. In fact that's even distant from the impression we got of him in the OT, and very early in Star Wars.

This "Dumbledore" twist was effective in Harry Potter, and I think could have worked in this saga if done well, since the idea of SW is pretty much the same "nor the wise (Yoda), the powerful (Vader, the Emperor), the knight (ObiWan), but the simple people (the farmboy Luke) can achieve victory.

mrbenja0618 said:

Bingowings said:

ben_danger said:

see this is what i mean about 70's style facial hair missing in the PT.

LOOK HOW AWESOME THIS LOOKS NOW!

I'd hate to be the person to hand paint this face fuzz and change the outfits but George...Ben in ANH was in disguise, Luke in ROTJ wasn't :

I agree with this. Another Lucas fubar. Why most all Jedi dress just like Obi-Wan did in ANH is ridiculous... Those were supposed to be typical Tattooine clothes... Owen wore them too! I always thought the Jedi would have an array of clothes. Or like you said, more like Luke was dressed in ROTJ. But as was also said, it would be difficult to recolor every robe, frame by frame.

The clothes make the man.  There were tons of Jedi walking around the SW universe.

Like this guy:

and these guys:

and this guy:

They are everywhere!

^ i like some of these ideas mithrandir! the empire could be really positive to begin with, then just start to get nasty. sort of like the rise of nazi germany, initially appearing like a positive economic force to the masses..... then the persecution begins.

maybe yoda even goes into exile really soon as the empire is founded?

I wouldn't be surprised if it's been discussed before, but one thing I would do is remove this guy from the separatists meeting in AOTC:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wat_Tambor

1. Because his design is really silly.

2. You could replace him with Grevious with little difficulty and thus make his appearance in Episode III significantly less jarring if you haven't seen the clone wars cartoon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqEdQgFYluQ&feature=related

In my opinion this scene is far superior to the shortened version in the movie. "... you saved my life..." Wow. So much more powerful. Something to consider for edits.

Maybe Maul/Grievous was revived to be the star witness in an investigation Palpatine/Sidious prevented from happening, ergo Dooku's frustration and final break from the Republic.

A re-dubbed line could make out that he has an axe (real or false) to grind with Lord Sidious.

Sith infiltration seems to be Dooku's main concern when it comes to going through proper Republican channels and gaining allies.

The Feds are there because they were the fall guys for what the Sith offered them in the first film.

If Maul/Grievous' eyes were covered right up until the point of his final fight with Obi-Wan it would be a nice surprise moment (god knows the PT needs some).

It would underline a personal dimension to their pursuit of each other. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GURbUS2WX8&feature=related

I thought this was an interesting scene that could be done somewhat differently. Maybe using dialogue from the Clone Wars. Can't recall what was said, OR we could find someone who can do a good Liam Neeson impression.

Jair Crawford said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqEdQgFYluQ&feature=related

In my opinion this scene is far superior to the shortened version in the movie. "... you saved my life..." Wow. So much more powerful. Something to consider for edits.

Damn... there are quite a lot of deleted scenes on that guy's channel. It's interesting to see what got cut out - what wasn't good enough even for the prequels.

Here's hoping there's some stuff that will come in handy for fan-editors.