Also, rating TFA a -1/10 has always been and will continue to be nothing more than a troll move to illicit negative reactions. So again, congratulations.
To be fair, I think the - was only used to separate the ranking from the title. All other rankings have it, too. Or he’s ranking Empire -10/10.
Ceci n’est pas une signature.
Ah, you’re right…although it doesn’t change much, frankly (ha). 1/10 is still ridiculous. Even people that hated it can admit it is a decently made film on some level (unless they’re trolling), so a low score like a 4/10 or 5/10 is perfectly reasonable. 1/10 is a “HEY LOOK AT ME, YOU GUYS WHO LIKE IT ARE LOSERS, LOSERS!!!” score.
With a healthy dose of "I’m way too sophisticated to enjoy something pumped out for the masses by the corporate machine. Most people like it, but I’m better than most people. "
Absolutely not saying everybody who dislikes it is that way , but anybody who gives it a 1/10 is.
She also exudes a meanness that I just can’t stand.
Lol.
Oh good, another "TFA is so terrible it gets a -1 and also I’m going to use a shitty misogynistic term to describe the main character,
^^^ Case in point, with regard to what I said about many people not even knowing what a Mary Sue is. It is not even remotely a “misogynistic” term, given that it isn’t even a sex-specific term. It denotes a type of character, male or female is irrelevant. The optional, equivalent term for such a character, if male, is “Gary Stu”, or “Marty Stu”.
No, not having it. First of all, who the hell has ever called somebody a “Gary Stu,” and second of all, the existence of a male counterpart to the name does not change the inherent misogynistic component of the other name. Just because we have gendered insults for both genders doesn’t mean that one can’t be more problematic than the other.
So, apart from hitting two troopers with 3 shots (not exactly expert and the second trooper wasn’t exactly a quick turn around shot either)
She hit 3 troopers with 4 shots, with the only shot missed being the first time she ever fired a blaster. And yes, the 3rd trooper she hit was a quick turn-around shot. The second one sort of was too, for that matter, not to mention being at relatively long range for a handgun.
you make excuses for the other two times she shoots at anything.
I’m not making “excuses”. The movie isn’t clear about the other two times, as I’ve already pointed out. However, there were at least two shots she fired at Kylo Ren that would have definitely hit, because he deflected them with his lightsaber.
So where the hell is there any indication that she is an expert?
Three shots, three kills, one-handed grip (far less stable than a two-handed grip), two of which appeared to be at a range of 25 yards or so, within 30 seconds of firing a blaster for the first time, and without even the most rudimentary instruction from anyone.
Your excuses actually show that there is no way to know if she is a good shot or not.
See above.
I wonder if you say the same thing about Luke, who had NO combat experience, as far as we knew through the film had never fired a gun before, yet was able to expertly shoot out the door controls from the other side of the hangar bay with one shot?
Luke had a gun and carried it with him on Tatooine when he went searching for R2D2. You think he’d never fired his own gun before (we know that Rey had never fired one before because the movie made a point of letting us know that she never had)? Also, he missed what he was shooting at with the stormtrooper’s blaster many times. Look at how many times he fired at the stormtroopers on the other side of the chasm before hitting one of them, and he was even using a two-handed grip, and with three of the standing close together, forming a bigger target. I counted eight shots, one hit.
I have heard many men call female characters a Mary Sue. The only time I’ve ever heard anyone call someone a Gary Stu is in a sad desperate attempt to defend their use of Mary Sue.
Is that a joke? In this very thread someone (who seems to like the Rey character) replied to me with this post:
This is a good, well reviewed book:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/186074.The_Name_of_the_Wind
The main character is a Gary Stu.
Discuss. Or better yet, let’s not.
And whether or not anyone uses the term “Gary Stu” for a male character is irrelevant, because it has nothing to do with the fact that it isn’t a sex-specific term. It is a character-type specific term. The name of the trope, “Mary Sue”, was taken from the name of a character used in a parody that was written specifically to demonstrate this type of character.
You want to argue that Rey does not earn her abilities? I disagree with you, but feel free to make the argument.
You want to do it in a derogatory way? Congratulations.
You don’t get to redefine the term “derogatory”.
Also, rating TFA a -1/10 has always been and will continue to be nothing more than a troll move to illicit negative reactions. So again, congratulations.
You don’t get to redefine the term “troll” either. If I don’t like a movie at all, I give it a 1/10. I don’t rate movies based on technical merits such as production values and such; I rate them strictly based on how well I liked the movie. It is the same score I gave it on IMDb the night I saw it in the theater in 2015.
I have heard many men call female characters a Mary Sue. The only time I’ve ever heard anyone call someone a Gary Stu is in a sad desperate attempt to defend their use of Mary Sue.
Is that a joke? In this very thread someone (who seems to like the Rey character) replied to me with this post:
Even though the exact number may be wrong, the point still stands.
This is a good, well reviewed book:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/186074.The_Name_of_the_Wind
The main character is a Gary Stu.
Discuss. Or better yet, let’s not.And whether or not anyone uses the term “Gary Stu” for a male character is irrelevant, because it has nothing to do with the fact that it isn’t a sex-specific term. It is a character-type specific term.
I’m gonna go with “no” on this one. It’s very hard to make the argument that a term using very clearly feminine names with a male-named counterpart is not gender specific.
The name of the trope, “Mary Sue”, was taken from the name of a character used in a parody that was written specifically to demonstrate this type of character.
Source?
You want to argue that Rey does not earn her abilities? I disagree with you, but feel free to make the argument.
You want to do it in a derogatory way? Congratulations.
You don’t get to redefine the term “derogatory”.
Also, rating TFA a -1/10 has always been and will continue to be nothing more than a troll move to illicit negative reactions. So again, congratulations.
You don’t get to redefine the term “troll” either. If I don’t like a movie at all, I give it a 1/10. I don’t rate movies based on technical merits such as production values and such; I rate them strictly based on how well I liked the movie. It is the same score I gave it on IMDb the night I saw it in the theater in 2015.
Whatever you want to do, I guess.
Rey’s marksmanship is a perfect example of the sexist bullshit that is the Mary Sue argument. Think how common it is in movies (not just Star Wars) that a guy picks up a gun for the first time and his aim and ability is never questioned. Yet they go out of their way to show that Rey isn’t perfect with a blaster but people call it out anyway.
The Luke comparisons are legitimate. Not because he’s a Gary Stu (although seriously guys, if anyone’s a heroic author avatar, maybe it’s the character that shares George’s name?), but because the truth is no one watches Star Wars and questions Luke’s ability with a blaster, like the thought never even occurs. The fact that Rey is held to a higher level of scrutiny is just proof of the sexist skepticism of the capabilities of female characters and women in general.
No, not having it.
It doesn’t matter whether you’re “having it” or not; it doesn’t change the facts whatsoever.
First of all, who the hell has ever called somebody a “Gary Stu,”
Your fellow Rey supporter NeverarGreat, to name one of countless people:
This is a good, well reviewed book:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/186074.The_Name_of_the_Wind
The main character is a Gary Stu.
Discuss. Or better yet, let’s not.
I suggest you do a Google search. “Gary Stu” is even mentioned in the opening paragraph of the Wikipedia “Mary Sue” article.
and second of all, the existence of a male counterpart to the name does not change the inherent misogynistic component of the other name.
There is no “inherent misogynistic component” of the term Mary Sue. It denotes a character type. The sex of the character isn’t part of the definition. “Mary Sue” is usually used for characters of either sex, but some people prefer to apply a similar sounding, but male, name to male examples of this character type.
Just because we have gendered insults for both genders doesn’t mean that one can’t be more problematic than the other.
You’re making stuff up. It isn’t a “gendered insult” at all. Also, the most famous Mary Sue prior to Rey was Wesley Crusher from Star Trek: The Next Generation.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue
Mary Sue is a derogatory term
Oh.
primarily used in Fan Fic circles to describe a particular type of character. This much everyone can agree on.
That’s wildly optimistic.
I found this video to be of merit when talking about the supposedly ‘Mary Sue’ / overpowered / SuperRey claims about Rey (amongst other criticism of characters) in The Force Awakens…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iqN68PejEc
(^ It is a ‘response video’ to someone claiming the usual ‘Ray is a Mary Sue’ opinion - along with that TFA was anti-male and anti-family. Some interesting and well made points in there from Shaun 😃)
The guy Shaun’s responding to has probably the most toxic viewpoint on Rey that I’ve ever seen, by a country mile.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
No, not having it.
It doesn’t matter whether you’re “having it” or not; it doesn’t change the facts whatsoever.
First of all, who the hell has ever called somebody a “Gary Stu,”
Your fellow Rey supporter NeverarGreat, to name one of countless people:
This is a good, well reviewed book:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/186074.The_Name_of_the_Wind
The main character is a Gary Stu.
Discuss. Or better yet, let’s not.I suggest you do a Google search. “Gary Stu” is even mentioned in the opening paragraph of the Wikipedia “Mary Sue” article.
Sure.
and second of all, the existence of a male counterpart to the name does not change the inherent misogynistic component of the other name.
There is no “inherent misogynistic component” of the term Mary Sue.
Er… there kind of is. At least in Western culture, there’s a tendency to shun women who are perceived to “do it all,” without perceived difficulty. It does not matter if the term came from an actual character; it’s still a product of the sexist culture that we live in. Culture does not exist in a vacuum.
It denotes a character type. The sex of the character isn’t part of the definition. “Mary Sue” is usually used for characters of either sex, but some people prefer to apply a similar sounding, but male, name to male examples of this character type.
See my above point. There’s still an inherent sexist component to the origin and use of the word.
Just because we have gendered insults for both genders doesn’t mean that one can’t be more problematic than the other.
You’re making stuff up. It isn’t a “gendered insult” at all. Also, the most famous Mary Sue prior to Rey was Wesley Crusher from Star Trek: The Next Generation.
Did I ever say that “Mary Sue” was a gendered insult? No.
Although now that I think of it, it might be.
I suggest you do a Google search. “Gary Stu” is even mentioned in the opening paragraph of the Wikipedia “Mary Sue” article.
Thank you for proving my point. The only time anyone anyone pulls out Gary Stu is to defend their use of Mary Sue.
In fact, watch what happens when you search Wikipedia for Gary Stu:
Mary Sue
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Gary Stu)
Hahahaha.
Did I ever say that “Mary Sue” was a gendered insult? No.
Although now that I think of it, it might be.
It absolutely is.
I suggest you do a Google search. “Gary Stu” is even mentioned in the opening paragraph of the Wikipedia “Mary Sue” article.
Thank you for proving my point. The only time anyone every pulls out Gary Stu is to defend their use of Mary Sue.
In fact, watch what happens when you search Wikipedia for Gary Stu:
Mary Sue
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Gary Stu)Hahahaha.
Even Wikipedia gets it!
Rey’s marksmanship is a perfect example of the sexist bullshit that is the Mary Sue argument. Think how common it is in movies (not just Star Wars) that a guy picks up a gun for the first time and his aim and ability is never questioned. Yet they go out of their way to show that Rey isn’t perfect with a blaster but people call it out anyway.
The Luke comparisons are legitimate. Not because he’s a Gary Stu (although seriously guys, if anyone’s a heroic author avatar, maybe it’s the character that shares George’s name?), but because the truth is no one watches Star Wars and questions Luke’s ability with a blaster, like the thought never even occurs. The fact Rey is held to a higher level of scrutiny is just proof of the sexist skepticism of the capabilities of female characters and women in general.
The only post worth reading on this page.
Rey’s marksmanship is a perfect example of the sexist bullshit that is the Mary Sue argument. Think how common it is in movies (not just Star Wars) that a guy picks up a gun for the first time and his aim and ability is never questioned. Yet they go out of their way to show that Rey isn’t perfect with a blaster but people call it out anyway.
The Luke comparisons are legitimate. Not because he’s a Gary Stu (although seriously guys, if anyone’s a heroic author avatar, maybe it’s the character that shares George’s name?), but because the truth is no one watches Star Wars and questions Luke’s ability with a blaster, like the thought never even occurs. The fact Rey is held to a higher level of scrutiny is just proof of the sexist skepticism of the capabilities of female characters and women in general.
The only post worth reading on this page.
Reported.
Rey’s marksmanship is a perfect example of the sexist bullshit that is the Mary Sue argument. Think how common it is in movies (not just Star Wars) that a guy picks up a gun for the first time and his aim and ability is never questioned. Yet they go out of their way to show that Rey isn’t perfect with a blaster but people call it out anyway.
The Luke comparisons are legitimate. Not because he’s a Gary Stu (although seriously guys, if anyone’s a heroic author avatar, maybe it’s the character that shares George’s name?), but because the truth is no one watches Star Wars and questions Luke’s ability with a blaster, like the thought never even occurs. The fact Rey is held to a higher level of scrutiny is just proof of the sexist skepticism of the capabilities of female characters and women in general.
The only post worth reading on this page.
Reported.
Co-signed.
yhwx said:
Even though the exact number may be wrong, the point still stands.
What exact number, and what point? No point based on the assertion that “Mary Sue” is a “misogynistic” term can stand, because it is at odds with the widely accepted definition of the term, which you can read about on Wikipedia, TV Tropes, and various other places.
I’m gonna go with “no” on this one. It’s very hard to make the argument that a term using very clearly feminine names with a male-named counterpart is not gender specific.
It is not sex-specific. Once again:
A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character. Often, this character is recognized as an author insert or wish fulfillment.[1] They can usually perform better at tasks than should be possible given the amount of training or experience. Sometimes, the name is reserved only for women, but more often the name is used for both sexes. A male can also be referred to as a Gary Stu, but more commonly either sex is called a Mary Sue. [2][3]
Note the parts I placed in bold.
The name of the trope, “Mary Sue”, was taken from the name of a character used in a parody that was written specifically to demonstrate this type of character.
Source?
This is your tacit admission that you haven’t even bothered to do your homework in order to avoid commenting on things you know nothing about:
The term “Mary Sue” comes from the name of a character created by Paula Smith in 1973 for her parody story “A Trekkie’s Tale”[4]:15 published in her fanzine Menagerie #2.[5]
This is your tacit admission that you haven’t even bothered to do your homework in order to avoid commenting on things you know nothing about:
The term “Mary Sue” comes from the name of a character created by Paula Smith in 1973 for her parody story “A Trekkie’s Tale”[4]:15 published in her fanzine Menagerie #2.[5]
True. I am a dummy on the Internet.
I have heard many men call female characters a Mary Sue. The only time I’ve ever heard anyone call someone a Gary Stu is in a sad desperate attempt to defend their use of Mary Sue.
I previously linked to a good example of the term in use, but here are some pull quotes from the reviews for your reading pleasure:
“Holy special snowflake, Gary Stu.”
“Recommends it for: Those who like badly plotted male wish fulfillment Gary Stus.”
“-Gary Stu protagonist
-Sidekick(s)
-Fanservice love interest”
“Why not 5 stars? The ‘Gary Stu’-ness of the main character got on my nerves at some points”
“All I see is the mother (father?) of all Gary Stu characters, and a bunch of “oh I’m so original (but not so original that I’ll dispense with horses and inns and a sexist society)!” fantasy filler.”
“If you look to the left, you will see the main character introduced, Kvothe (aka, Kote, The Flame, E’lir, Shadicar, Reshi, The Thunderer, Macho Mage, Child Prodigy, Gary Stu, etc) in sweeping purple prose flowers all the way down your field of vision.”
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
Rey’s marksmanship is a perfect example of the sexist bullshit that is the Mary Sue argument. Think how common it is in movies (not just Star Wars) that a guy picks up a gun for the first time and his aim and ability is never questioned. Yet they go out of their way to show that Rey isn’t perfect with a blaster but people call it out anyway.
Name some examples. I want examples where it is established that the character has never fired a gun before, and takes place in a story where a similar established character misses a lot, even though it shows that he already owns a gun.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue
Mary Sue is a derogatory term
Oh.
It is not “derogatory” in the sense that you used the term; you claimed it was misogynistic. It isn’t. It’s derogatory in the sense that a Mary Sue is a hallmark of bad writing, i.e., it isn’t a compliment to the writer if you point out that his character is a Mary Sue.
I have heard many men call female characters a Mary Sue. The only time I’ve ever heard anyone call someone a Gary Stu is in a sad desperate attempt to defend their use of Mary Sue.
I previously linked to a good example of the term in use, but here are some pull quotes from the reviews for your reading pleasure:
Ok, now I’ve heard it once.
If you can show me that Mary Sue isn’t used far more often than Gary Stu, I’d love to see it.