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Idea & Info: The Definitive Stereo Mix

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I’m relatively new here and trying to catch up with the overwhelming amount of activity going on in the efforts to produce OT DVD versions.

I expressed in an earlier post my interest in trying to come up with a superior representation of the original mono soundtrack. I wanted to discuss here, my thoughts for what might be the definitive stereo version.

First, let me say that this issue may be have been well addressed already by many who are currently working on the various versions out there, and I by no means assume to diminish their efforts. That said, here are my two cents on the subject.

I think most would agree that the best representation of the stereo track available is from the Definitive or “Faces” edition. Essentially a matrixed fold down of the 6-track mag with some refinement to the LFE or “Baby Boom” channel, plus some very minor sweetening - this mix conveys the impact and dynamics of the original 70mm release better than any other. All that is lacking is the inclusion of a bit of missing dialogue. The 4-track mag sourced for the SE and 2004 DVD version features superior sonics in many ways but the mix was not near as good as the 6-track – even before all the added garbage. It does however provide an excellent source for the missing dialogue. Being 5.1, the bits in question can be lifted quite cleanly from the discreet center channel, timbre matched and dropped into the old mix relatively easily. Which brings up an interesting point. There are two additional lines in the 2004 DVD which were never in any previous issues, yet seem to have been recorded at the time of the original production and were probably always meant to be included. I refer to C3P0’s “We’ve stopped” spoken to R2 inside the sandcrawler, and the stormtrooper’s “No one’s here” after the initial search of the Falcon’s interior aboard the Death Star. In both cases the characters on screen appear to be saying…something. The question is: should these be considered part of the original or not?

I would welcome any and all feed back on this subject as I think I’m going to put a track together and offer it to anyone who is interested (Zion are you listening?)

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I am not an expert at all in this field plus I am deaf in one ear so I am the last person to ask about stereo!!!!

However, my understanding of the different dialogue to which you refer is simply down to the different formats that the film was originally released in.

Go here to read more. (link borrowed from another thread)

I cannot say if the missing dialogue you refer to is a later addition or has it been removed at a later date.

From the link above............

Ben Burtt recalls: "Because we were always trying to make the film better and better and fix things that were not right, there was some 'sweetening' done; things like different Stormtrooper or C-3PO lines, additional sound effects, or some different ADR."


Now I have said my bit, I will wait for the experts to have their say and they really know their stuff!!

Good luck in BOTH of your quests!!

4 - 5 - 3 - 1 - 6 - 2

Discuss…

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The lines that creeped into the 2004 mix were not heard in any previous mix, so I figure dump them! I'd rather not be reminded of that horrible disc when watching Star Wars. The Definitive mix is actually my least favorite of all of the Star Wars mixes, since a lot of the new sound effects stand out to me. I like the mix heard on the EditDroid disc (sourced from the 1989 LD) and the original Dolby Stereo mix (heard on the pan and scan CAV Star Wars LD) and the mono mix.

Neil

Well at least the reversed surround channels have been addressed.

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Greetings! I'm a relatively newbie poster, though I've been lurking around for a long time. Although with the recent developments that indicate that the OOT will not be released anytime soon (though I hold out hope for a 2007 30th anniversary megaset), I've been hanging out here more often.

Now, the most popular OT DVD versions out there tend to come from the Def. Collection or Faces LDs.

I've not actually heard the mixes for the Faces versions, and I don't particularly like the Def. Collection versions (with the newly-added sound effects, the lack of 3PO's lines, the missing snowspeeder whine before it crashes, etc.).

The mixes that are near and dear to my heart are the 1985 mixes, featured in my beloved CBS-FOX VHS tapes from 1990 (the first time I ever owned the trilogy).

I'd love it if someone used the sound from the 1992 laserdiscs (which used the 1985 mixes, and are likely the best presentations of the films in that regard).

Still, I'm a stickler for historical accuracy (as are many here), and audio tracks featuring the original mixes (70mm, mono, stereo) would be pretty spiffy, as would the original opening crawl (and other changes rumored to be in the original releases, such as no Chewie scaring mouse droid, alternate "rebel fleet ending" cut for Empire, etc.).
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I don't have my copy handy, but the old "Art of Star Wars" book had the complete shooting script including the Biggs and Jabba scenes, IIRC. Might be worth checking to see if those "new" lines are in there or not?
Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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I've never seen those lines anywhere.

And if the point of this is to preserve the original mixes, and those lines never appeared in the original mixes, then they shouldn't be included.

And not to stir up trouble, but I don't quite understant why some want to slightly tweak the films themselves (fixing the saber effects, etc.). I think the films should be presented in their 100% original configurations, with old logos, old effects, old mixes. Just my two cents.
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No trouble.

First of all, there will be more than one version.

Secondly, you'd be surprised how many new errors have been introduced by the telecine process. None of the footage of any of the LD's is 100% faithful to the films.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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EditDroid used the 1985 mix which you and I grew up with. That's the mix I'm used to.

On the other hand, it WAS altered, it's not the same as any of the original mixes, and I would like to see as many of the 3 original mixes restored as possible. The 2.0 is the easiest of these mixes to restore as it made it as far as VHS and laserdisc.

BTW, the 1.0 mix I have does have the mouse droid scene in it...

Moll.

"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)

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This might seem strange, as I was born in 1989, and my first exposure to Star Wars came around 1994/1995, but I grew up with the 85 sound mix; my grandma had the pan&scan 80s VHS tapes, and I saw her so often I never bought any Star Wars until she lent her tapes away and never got them back in 1997, just after the SEs. Then we bought the Faces set (pan&scan) and later the SE set (pan&scan; you have to understand none of us got the point of widescreen at that time), and never noticed any differences (Faces set that is) until I watched the EditDroid set, and that brought back ten-year old memories of the way it used to be. (I know those of you who vividly remember the 77 mono mix are sitting back and saying, "Yeah, whatever, dude") Therefore, to be honest, I'm for a set with the mono, 77 stereo, and 85 stereo mixes all in one. After listening to the mono mix (the PAL tape on mp3 format), and hearing the differences, that will be the one I listen to from now on. That was kinda longwinded, and a pointless post...I just got back from dress rehearsal for Little Shop of Horrors (the show's this weekend) and I'm wiped. So if that didn't make much sense, sorry.
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Actually, that was a good story.

BTW, are you Audrey 2?

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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"(fixing the saber effects, etc.). I think the films should be presented in their 100% original configurations,"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/mebejedi/lightsaber-3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/mebejedi/lightsaber-2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/mebejedi/lightsaber-1.jpg

Here are three pics showing some obvious IVTC errors. Keep in mind that these lightsabers were painted in by hand, frame by frame. They should be full lightsabers, but they are not. Now, if you truly believe that these transfers should be 100% faithful to the film, then this would mean you support fixing these transfer errors, would it not?

Not trying to make a dig at you, but perhaps now you see the problem. It's not nearly as cut and dried as some would like to believe. Not only that, but you can get different errors depending on the LD you watch, and the LD player you use to watch it!

There once was a user - who shall remain namesless - who just didn't get this distinction, and hounded anyone else who didn't agree with him. Thankfully, I have it on good authority that he(?) won't be an issue here anymore.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Hmm.

I'm not an expert with all the technical issues of transfers and such (my areas of interest/expertise would be the actual films and the differences between versions), but you make a valid point.

There's just a fine line between *preservation* of the original work and saying "well, maybe I can tinker with this just a little bit".

But in terms of transfer issues, I think there should be more leeway in that regard.
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Agreed, and don't feel bad about it. Not many people get to see such raw footage frame by frame, which is why there's so much misunderstanding about it.

Believe me, there's a lot more than just this, and it's not just lightsabers, either (though they tend to be the most obvious.)

I might add that the unnamed person had no problem giving unsolicted technical advice, despite admitting to having no personal experience with such technicalities whatsoever. Quite annoying.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
Actually, that was a good story.

BTW, are you Audrey 2?


Unfortunately, no, but the guy who plays Audrey II is a big black guy (who happens to be one of the nicest guys I know; he won't even say the line, "No shit, Sherlock," he changed it to "shiznit" which I think is ridiculously stupid but better than cutting it completely I guess), and I'm a little white guy, so that wouldn't work. No, I'm a street wino; no lines, chorus part. If I could sing I'd probably be Orin Scrivello, that's the part I auditioned for and everyone loved me in it, but I can't sing. On a small sidenote earlier this year I was Paravicini in Agatha Christie's The Mousetrap.

But anyway, back on topic, yeah that is a very fine line; I'd say by this point it's a near-moot point, as there are so many high-quality versions out there that preserve the original that it doesn't really matter anymore.
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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
There once was a user - who shall remain namesless - who just didn't get this distinction, and hounded anyone else who didn't agree with him. Thankfully, I have it on good authority that he(?) won't be an issue here anymore.
You mean my filter is now obsolete?

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Yep! Worked better than you thought, didnit?

[C3PO] "I didn't know I had it in me" [/C3PO]

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>