Your agonizer, please…
Where were you in '77?
Making Sulu gay is an amazing decision. It’s unfortunate that George finds it unfortunate. It very much fits in with the diverse and accepting nature of the original show.
And was Sulu ever proven to be not gay? Don’t see the issue here (it’s not even completely out of left field for the character because of Takei’s orientation). Awesome that Trek finally has a gay character. Beat Star Wars to it!
It seems to be Takei’s position that the character wasn’t conceived or written than way by Roddenberry. I don’t think he ever played Sulu or thought of Sulu as gay.
Plenty of fans thought Kirk and Spock were more than close friends. K/S slash fanfiction was enough of a thing by 1979, that Roddenberry addressed the issue in the TMP novelization.
Where were you in '77?
I seem to recall an instance or two where Sulu was shown appreciating the female form.
It’s pretty messed up that they asked for his input and he repeatedly told them he was against it and they did it anyway. What a way to “honor his legacy.”
I seem to recall an instance or two where Sulu was shown appreciating the female form.
Doesn’t prevent him from being gay.
It’s pretty messed up that they asked for his input and he repeatedly told them he was against it and they did it anyway. What a way to “honor his legacy.”
Does seem somewhat disingenuous but just because they didn’t have his blessing doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have done it.
A character transcends their actor or their creator. They are what they story needs them to be, provided it fits within what has been established. Just because Sulu hasn’t been shown as gay before doesn’t mean it can’t fit within what has been established. And, while I know when Takei says Gene’s original vision he’s talking about the very specific fact of Sulu’s orientation, I do believe this change is very much in keeping with Gene’s larger vision (unless his vision for an all inclusive Federation somehow excluded gay people?).
I guess the only problem I have with this is that they picked Sulu…why? I mean, if he was picked specifically because Takei is gay, shouldn’t Takei be on board before they do it? Otherwise, why not a new character?
You know that if they introduced a new gay character they wouldn’t make it out of the movie alive.
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A character transcends their actor or their creator. They are what they story needs them to be, provided it fits within what has been established. Just because Sulu hasn’t been shown as gay before doesn’t mean it can’t fit within what has been established. And, while I know when Takei says Gene’s original vision he’s talking about the very specific fact of Sulu’s orientation, I do believe this change is very much in keeping with Gene’s larger vision (unless his vision for an all inclusive Federation somehow excluded gay people?).
Let us not forget that this is not an alternate universe. This is supposedly just a divergent timeline. Sulu has always been heterosexual, he even has a biological daughter.
If anyone knows what Gene’s vision for the character was it would be the man who played the character for over three decades. To reveal in this film that Sulu is gay would mean that he was closeted throughout the entire original series as Takei points out himself. That doesn’t really sound like something that would happen in Gene’s vision of the 23rd century does it? Again, something that Takei pointed out.
The character of Sulu is very close to Takei’s heart. The fan film World Enough and Time (Highly recommended) stars Takei and solidly cements Sulu as heterosexual. While not canonical, Takei is very proud of this production and more than likely considers it part of his personal canon for the character. For the filmmakers to approach Takei for his input/blessing on something that they state is meant to honor him and then completely disregard his wishes is disrespectful.
Gay people can have biological children. 😉
I appreciate that the filmmakers had the best of intentions, but choosing Sulu to convey this is like showing Spock eating a steak. It goes against the grain of 50 years of Trek lore.
Not to mention Family Guy and other shows have run the “Sulu’s gay!” joke into the ground already.
Where were you in '77?
If anyone knows what Gene’s vision for the character was it would be the man who played the character for over three decades. To reveal in this film that Sulu is gay would mean that he was closeted throughout the entire original series as Takei points out himself. That doesn’t really sound like something that would happen in Gene’s vision of the 23rd century does it? Again, something that Takei pointed out.
The character of Sulu is very close to Takei’s heart. The fan film World Enough and Time (Highly recommended) stars Takei and solidly cements Sulu as heterosexual. While not canonical, Takei is very proud of this production and more than likely considers it part of his personal canon for the character. For the filmmakers to approach Takei for his input/blessing on something that they state is meant to honor him and then completely disregard his wishes is disrespectful.
I agree with this. George Takei still honors Gene Roddenberry’s vision because he understands and respects it for what it is. Making Cho’s Sulu gay comes off more like a gimmick than anything genuine.
That Sulu is gay in the Kelvin timeline and straight the Prime timeline implies that the Kelvin timeline diverged from the Prime timeline before Sulu was born, 3 years before Nero arrived. This establishes that the Narada was not the event which split the timelines - the Narada merely traveled through a wormhole to an already existing divergent timeline. This actually makes more sense than the official explanation, because Spock Prime’s ship travels to this same already existing divergent timeline which contains the Narada instead of creating a new ‘divergent timeline’ itself.
There. Another successful application of the Many Worlds hypothesis. My work here is finished.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
The character of Sulu is very close to Takei’s heart. The fan film World Enough and Time (Highly recommended) stars Takei and solidly cements Sulu as heterosexual. While not canonical, Takei is very proud of this production and more than likely considers it part of his personal canon for the character. For the filmmakers to approach Takei for his input/blessing on something that they state is meant to honor him and then completely disregard his wishes is disrespectful.
That’s fair. I get where he’s coming from.
Personally I’ve never been crazy huge into Trek so I’ll admit to not knowing the canon inside and out. But nothing I’ve seen contradicts making Sulu gay. Unless I missed a part where Sulu made it clear he only had eyes for women, or unless the new film makes it clear he only has eyes for men, I still don’t see where the continuity issue is.
It’ll probably depend on how the new film handles it but I’m sure it’s not hard to believe that the timeline divergence could cause him to end up in a different relationship.
Not to mention the fact that this alternate timeline already strains credibility in many ways of actually being based on the original timeline anyway. I find it easier to enjoy if you just watch the films as straight up reboots. In that case there’s no problem at all.
Pegg’s got a great response to Takei: http://www.ew.com/article/2016/07/08/star-trek-beyond-simon-pegg-sulu-george-takei
It’s 2016. If they added a new gay character, nobody of the fans would have any problems with it. My problem with it is that they picked up a previously established character. I call it lazy writing. Don’t you know what to do with character X? Well change his / her sexuality
Pegg’s got a great response to Takei: http://www.ew.com/article/2016/07/08/star-trek-beyond-simon-pegg-sulu-george-takei
I take issue with his implication Plato’s Stepchildren was the lowest rated episode of the series because of the Kirk/Uhura kiss. There were no plot spoilers in 1968, and the third season was tanking in the Friday at 10pm timeslot of death in the first place.
Did Gene, (or anybody writing for TOS) even know Takei was gay?
And Pegg overlooked the most obvious choice.
These two were alone on that ice planet for a long time. 😉
Where were you in '77?
That Sulu is gay in the Kelvin timeline and straight the Prime timeline implies that the Kelvin timeline diverged from the Prime timeline before Sulu was born, 3 years before Nero arrived. This establishes that the Narada was not the event which split the timelines - the Narada merely traveled through a wormhole to an already existing divergent timeline. This actually makes more sense than the official explanation, because Spock Prime’s ship travels to this same already existing divergent timeline which contains the Narada instead of creating a new ‘divergent timeline’ itself.
There. Another successful application of the Many Worlds hypothesis. My work here is finished.
Also, Kelvin Timeline Khan is white and British. I somehow don’t think Nero changed a man’s race and nationality, especially since he existed some 200 years before Nero’s arrival.
.
There’s that. Though he may have just been pretending to be Khan, and was actually the guy to the right:
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JEDIT: Into Darkness would have been 1000X more badass with Cillian Murphy instead of Cumberbund, and playing Khan’s fanatical first officer Joachim.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
Pegg’s got a great response to Takei: http://www.ew.com/article/2016/07/08/star-trek-beyond-simon-pegg-sulu-george-takei
I dunno. Seems to me a little like changing Bruce Banner to an Italian American as a nod to Ferrigno. Something that’s pre-established in reality.
OTOH, I suspect that most if not all homosexuals have an imaginary straight alter-ego, a sort of “What if I’d gone in the other direction?” Sounds like Takei might have played his Sulu that way and was a little thrown by another take.
Not being immersed in the TOS EU lore or Takei’s personal characterization, I don’t feel bothered by a secondary character having his character expanded with an acknowledgement of the original actor. At least, so long as it is a simple acknowledgement and not a glorification or press to normalize the unnatural for children and teens.
Is it just me, and my heavy Texas accent, but what makes me cringe when I always hear people call the Enterprise “Enta-prise” instead of “Enter-prise?” I mean, A LOT of people on most versions of Star Trek do it, so maybe it is just me. I dunno.
It bothers me because I’m careful with my syllables.
Is it just me, and my heavy Texas accent, but what makes me cringe when I always hear people call the Enterprise “Enta-prise” instead of “Enter-prise?” I mean, A LOT of people on most versions of Star Trek do it, so maybe it is just me. I dunno.
I’ve never noticed that.
Is it just me, and my heavy Texas accent, but what makes me cringe when I always hear people call the Enterprise “Enta-prise” instead of “Enter-prise?” I mean, A LOT of people on most versions of Star Trek do it, so maybe it is just me. I dunno.
I’ve never noticed that.
Like I said, could be my region and accent, but we all say “Enter-prise.”
I have much more of a general American/TV news accent, and it still annoys me.
Frink, I’m watching TNG right now and I noticed Troi saying “Enta-prise,” but a notable person and place I’ve heard it was from Uhura especially in the movies.
FWIW, I have the attention span of a…
