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Episode II is just as extraneous to the plot of Star Wars as Episode I.

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So there’s a lot of talk about how the so-called “Machete Order” cuts out Episode I. But I have to wonder why you would stop there. Why not cut out Episode II too? Not just because it’s an awful, awful film. But also because nothing happens in it that is important, least of all when viewed in Machete Order!

Consider that when you watch the movies in Machete Order, you’re reframing the overall arc of Star Wars into the story of Luke Skywalker moreso than Anakin Skywalker. So what is the point of including one or two movies in which Luke Skywalker is not even conceived throughout the entire runtime of the movies? They add nothing. Literally nothing of substance is added to the originals by Episode 2. No revelations are gathered from watching it following the big one at the end of Episode 5. Episode 3 has 100% of the important stuff involving Anakin’s fall to the Dark Side and answers literally every question you may have about how Luke was born and why Anakin became Darth Vader. At the end of Episode 2, he’s still a Jedi and Lucas did a terrible job of setting up any indication that he would fall, so it’s totally pointless to watch it. His shift seems sudden and rushed no matter whether you watch Episode 2 or not.

Seriously. Obi-Wan’s already told you about the Clone Wars in Episode 4, so just watch Episode 3 when they throw you right into the Clone Wars. Do you really need to see all the intergalactic politics of how the Clone Wars started? No. That’s not an important question when watching the movies in Machete Order. You’re focusing on the Skywalkers. And do you even need to see how Luke’s parents “fell in love?” No, in fact you’re much better off leaving it to the imagination, which skipping Episode 2 allows you to do. Knowing that Anakin has a pregnant wife is all you need to know. The romance plot in Episode 2 certainly adds no emotional depth to the situation, so it’s pointless.

So basically, all including Episode 2 does is drag out the flashback time before you get back to the main story and give you a worse, less sympathetic impression of Anakin/Vader, his friendship with Obi-Wan, his relationship with his wife, etc. You can still leave most of this to the imagination if you cut out Episode 2, meaning you get to preserve most of what Obi-Wan says in Episode 4. You don’t even have to think that Owen Lars was just Anakin’s stepbrother he only met once. They could have been raised together for all you know now!

Trust me, watching it this way improves both Episode 3 and 6 substantially and makes the whole experience much more enjoyable.

I think perhaps a tiny fanedit consisting of a rewritten crawl for Episode III adding just the right amount of exposition and backstory that isn’t in the movie so you aren’t lost at the beginning if you’re watching the first time would make it totally perfect.

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If you are leaving out Episode 1 and Episode 2, why not leave out Episode 3 as well and just watch the OT?

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That’s my favorite order. Apart from Order 66 and the First Order. Haven’t decided on the Order of the Phoenix yet, but New Order is great, too.

Ceci n’est pas une signature.

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Episode 1 and 2 could have been one good Star Wars movie. Have a movie where the Clone Wars start, Obi-Wan finds Anakin and Palpatine becomes Chancellor. The films as they are now have to little going on of importance and the rest of the time is filled with stupid crap.

It seems like people are really embracing the new characters. In fact, the big question people ask me now about Star Wars is, “Are Finn and Poe gay lovers?” And really how the f*ck would I know? My second husband left me for a man, so my gaydar isn’t exactly what you’d call Death Star level quality. ----Carrie Fisher

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Honestly, I’ve been feeling that lately with all the Anthology stuff going around… why not reclassify Episodes I and II as Anthologies (they both tell stories that are interesting to the Star Wars universe, but not exactly vital, much like Rogue One), at least from a personal canon perspective.

Then you could always reshoot Episodes I and II.

I personally never liked the “Machete Order” because you watch two good movies, then have to slog through one awful movie and one meh movie, then by the time you get back to a decent movie, you forget what’s even going on. It’s never a good idea to interrupt a series in the middle with an entirely new series that’s only got rudimentary connections to the first series. It doesn’t serve either series well.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

END OF LINE

(It hasn’t happened yet)

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Tyrphanax said:

Honestly, I’ve been feeling that lately with all the Anthology stuff going around… why not reclassify Episodes I and II as Anthologies (they both tell stories that are interesting to the Star Wars universe, but not exactly vital, much like Rogue One), at least from a personal canon perspective.

Then you could always reshoot Episodes I and II.

I personally never liked the “Machete Order” because you watch two good movies, then have to slog through one awful movie and one meh movie, then by the time you get back to a decent movie, you forget what’s even going on. It’s never a good idea to interrupt a series in the middle with an entirely new series that’s only got rudimentary connections to the first series. It doesn’t serve either series well.

I agree. If you watch them you either need to watch 1-6, or watch 4-6, 1-3. Many prefer to watch 4-6 and leave it at that.

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I’ve tried the 4-6, 1-3 thing before but after I finish Jedi I have absolutely no desire to watch the PT. I have to watch the PT first if I want to watch the entire series so that I have something good to look forward to.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

END OF LINE

(It hasn’t happened yet)

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HansiG said:

If you are leaving out Episode 1 and Episode 2, why not leave out Episode 3 as well and just watch the OT?

Done and done.

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Objectively and mathematically correct viewing order for Star Wars:

  1. Star Wars (1977)
  2. The Empire Strikes Back
  3. Attack of the Clones
  4. Revenge of the Sith
  5. The Star Wars Holiday Special
  6. The Godfather Part II
  7. Naruto

XD lol just kidding bruh. The true great viewing order for Star Wars is:

  1. Despecialized Edition Original Trilogy
  2. YouTube video(s) showing why the prequels suck
  3. The Force Awakens
  4. Rest of the sequel trilogy
  5. Anthology/A Star Wars Story trilogy
  6. Whatever Star Wars movies are released after 2020

The suckiness of the prequels is neccessary to understand why the Force Awakens was made the way it was made, so a YouTube montage/torture video or the RedLetterMedia reviews should be shown to people after the original trilogy.

Never make a newcomer watch the prequels though. EVER.

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I would like to watch the films in order of density.

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Bingowings said:

I would like to watch the films in order of density.

Attack of the Clones
Revenge of the Sith
The Phantom Menace

Original and TFA aren’t dense enough to even be bothered with

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HansiG said:

Bingowings said:

I would like to watch the films in order of density.

Attack of the Clones
Revenge of the Sith
The Phantom Menace

Original and TFA aren’t dense enough to even be bothered with

“It’s so dense. Every single image has so many things going on.” - the immortal words of Rick McCallum

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I think the creation of the clone army and the beginning of the Clone Wars are important (unless the PT doesn’t count in your canon). That said, it could probably be skipped for the Machete Order, definitely fixing Anakin’s relationship with Padmè, Jango being the “genetic template” and Jar-jar’s speech in the Senate.
Honestly, I myself skip both TPM and AOTC if I can’t rely on fanedits (for example when I watch the Star Wars films with my parents, who don’t understand English, so we have to use the original Italian versions).

The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201

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I don’t understand why you people skip these movies.

If you don’t want to watch bad movies, just don’t watch the prequels at all.

Either watch everything or screw PT entirely. The entire PT is not important to the story of OT.

Keep it all or skip it all.

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HansiG said:

I don’t understand why you people skip these movies.

If you don’t want to watch bad movies, just don’t watch the prequels at all.

Either watch everything or screw PT entirely. The entire PT is not important to the story of OT.

Keep it all or skip it all.

Because I do think ROTS adds something to ROTJ. It wasn’t executed nearly as well as it could or should have been, but it does add some depth to Vader’s character that makes the climax of ROTJ that much more powerful. Knowing how and why he turned to the dark side makes you more invested in his arc and makes the moment he turns back to the light pack more emotional punch as a result. And unlike the first two, it doesn’t outright ruin his character and pretty much everything else about Star Wars.

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HansiG said:

I don’t understand why you people skip these movies.

If you don’t want to watch bad movies, just don’t watch the prequels at all.

Either watch everything or screw PT entirely. The entire PT is not important to the story of OT.

Keep it all or skip it all.

Aside for the obvious known problems, TPM and AOTC have too many things I just can’t stand to watch… ROTS is not flawless at all, but even if people could disagree with me, I think it really is the best PT movie, and it’s worth watching for its dramatic plot and characters, not to mention that the Italian dub makes all the acting actually believable (this is probably true for every other dub as well). It’s a worth addition to the OT, in my eyes.

The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201

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John Doom said:

HansiG said:

I don’t understand why you people skip these movies.

If you don’t want to watch bad movies, just don’t watch the prequels at all.

Either watch everything or screw PT entirely. The entire PT is not important to the story of OT.

Keep it all or skip it all.

Aside for the obvious known problems, TPM and AOTC have too many things I just can’t stand to watch… ROTS is not flawless at all, but even if people could disagree with me, I think it really is the best PT movie, and it’s worth watching for its dramatic plot and characters, not to mention that the Italian dub makes all the acting actually believable (this is probably true for every other dub as well). It’s a worth addition to the OT, in my eyes.

I disagree with you. TPM is a bad movie but still way better than the other two.

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TPM’s only advantage over the other two is Darth Maul really. Honestly whether it’s better or worse than Clones depends on whether I’m in a mood in which I find Jar Jar or sand romance more tolerable, but I think ROTS is a huge step above both. Phantom Menace’s greatest crime in my view was just that it’s sooooo boring. Pacing was just awful. Even Jar Jar could have been tolerable if it was fun to watch. But the movie stops dead in its tracks for a loooooong detour on Tattooine before it picks back up. Clones had the same problem to a lesser extent; at least the Obi-Wan subplot was kind of fun and at least there was some sort of emotional impact with the sand people and Anakin’s mom. Phantom Menace didn’t have any of that. It was just pod racing and Watto and kiddie Anakin running around for like 45 minutes that felt 10 times longer. So it’s probably my least favorite for that reason, though sometimes I do prefer it to Clones.

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Density said:

TPM’s only advantage over the other two is Darth Maul really. Honestly whether it’s better or worse than Clones depends on whether I’m in a mood in which I find Jar Jar or sand romance more tolerable, but I think ROTS is a huge step above both. Phantom Menace’s greatest crime in my view was just that it’s sooooo boring. Pacing was just awful. Even Jar Jar could have been tolerable if it was fun to watch. But the movie stops dead in its tracks for a loooooong detour on Tattooine before it picks back up. Clones had the same problem to a lesser extent; at least the Obi-Wan subplot was kind of fun and at least there was some sort of emotional impact with the sand people and Anakin’s mom. Phantom Menace didn’t have any of that. It was just pod racing and Watto and kiddie Anakin running around for like 45 minutes that felt 10 times longer. So it’s probably my least favorite for that reason, though sometimes I do prefer it to Clones.

Eh not really. TPM has many practical effects, miniatures, sets, and some CGI that still holds up almost 20 years later. It was also shot on film and has a great score plus much more memorable characters like Qui-Gon Jinn and Watto. Most of the writing (save for Anakin and Jar Jar) is also tolerable at worst and sometimes turns out pretty good!

TPM has many elements that make it the best of the PT, but it still sucks anyway lol.

Prequel Fan-Edit thread: http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Yet-another-series-of-prequel-edits/id/17329

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E3 is just as bad as the rest of prequels.

If I had to pick the best, I would go for E1 because of it’s fairy tale athmosphere, but even then, it’s like saying the turd I took today is better than the turd I took yesterday.

ROTS adds just as much to the OT story as TPM and AOTC add.

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ROTS is literally the only one that adds anything to the OT story at all. It’s the only one that actually could really even be called a prequel in that it is the only one that has events that actually lead into the events of the original directly and tie into the main story of the original. It’s the only one that fleshes out the characters of the original (Vader particularly) in a significant way and the only one that changes how you see some of the events in the originals for the better (mostly). I’ve said it before, but I still think the idea that Anakin turned to the dark side to save his child and then turned back for the same reason was the best idea Lucas had in the prequels and it’s what makes machete order work. It adds a strong link between 3 and 6 that holds up well when viewed back to back.

And yeah that’s great, Episode 1 had a few more miniatures and was shot on film. Episode 3 still even looks better because at least the CGI, more of it though there may be, hasn’t dated quite as much as Episode 1’s CGI has. And the score? The score is great in all three, that’s not an advantage to TPM specifically. And Qui-Gon is a memorable character? Really? Qui-Gon never needed to exist. It should have just been Obi-Wan from the start. I love Liam Neeson but the character is pointless. Watto is memorable for all the wrong reasons as yet another racist cartoon alien with a dumb accent.

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Density said:

I still think the idea that Anakin turned to the dark side to save his child and then turned back for the same reason was the best idea Lucas had in the prequels and it’s what makes machete order work.

But he didn’t. He did it to “save [his] wife from certain death.”

TV’s Frink said:

I would put this in my sig if I weren’t so lazy.

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CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

Density said:

I still think the idea that Anakin turned to the dark side to save his child and then turned back for the same reason was the best idea Lucas had in the prequels and it’s what makes machete order work.

But he didn’t. He did it to “save [his] wife from certain death.”

I guess his unborn child had no bearing on that then? Come on.