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What is wrong with... Attack of the Clones? - a general discussion thread — Page 16

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TV’s Frink said:

We should nuke this entire site from orbit.

Its the only way to be sure.

It seems like people are really embracing the new characters. In fact, the big question people ask me now about Star Wars is, “Are Finn and Poe gay lovers?” And really how the f*ck would I know? My second husband left me for a man, so my gaydar isn’t exactly what you’d call Death Star level quality. ----Carrie Fisher

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Scott109 said:

DominicCobb said:

Yeah it was definitely a retcon and a mostly pointless one at that. Just playing devil’s advocate.

I think if they had addressed the absurdity of the rule in-movie as one of the many reasons the Jedi order is somewhat broken and archaic and tied it into Anakin’s disillusionment with the order, I would be fine with it. But, of course, as is there’s no point beyond Lucas trying to make it an epic love story or whatever.

I thought that it was clear that Anakin’s disillusionment with the Jedi Order was the primary reason for the turn to the dark side after his desire to save Padmé. The Jedi Code forbade attachment to all worldy things, which kept him from his mother, whom he left as a vulnerable young boy, leading to her violent death. The Jedi Code forbade his marriage to Padmé, whom he loved more than life itself. When Anakin learned that the Jedi Council was planning to execute the democratically elected supreme chancellor without a trial and seize direct control of the Republic, Anakin became convinced that the Jedi Order was corrupt. From Anakin’s point of view, Palpatine sought to win the war against the separatists, whereas the Jedi Order only sought to maintain power. Palpatine had told him the dark side could save Padmé, whereas Master Yoda had told him, “Let go of everything you fear to lose.”

The Jedi Code taught Anakin to repress his fear, anger, hatred, and love. Palpatine taught Anakin to give into his repressed emotions, which he desperately desired to hear.

If the Jedi Code never forbade natural emotions such as love and attachment, Anakin would not have been seduced to the dark side.

Yeah this is how it was supposed to be/should have been, but it simply was not executed well enough to come across. Though there are reasons why Anakin would leave the order (attachment and all), the only reasoning we actually see him act upon is that Palpatine can save Padme (not to mention how fast and dramatically he turns). The pieces are all there, the dots just aren’t really connected on screen. This background is, at best, subtext. At worst, it’s nonexistent.

The Jedi Order had to be at least partially flawed, otherwise Anakin’s turn to the dark side would have been unbelievable.

They are clearly flawed but nothing in the films suggest that we, the audience, should think they are flawed. We hear Anakin whine in AOTC about “love” and whine about spying on Palpatine in ROTS. Not really any legitimate critiques of the way they operate. No questioning or doubt from Obi-Wan or Yoda about the way they operate.

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moviefreakedmind said:

Attack of the Clones was so bad it made Home Alone 3 look like Home Alone 2.

I would willingly watch Attack of the Clones before any Home Alone movie. I despise those movies.

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Anakin must have had to give some accounting of his actions on Tatooine to the Jedi or just Obi Wan, even if it omitted certain unpleasant details. How else does Obi Wan know where to take baby Luke in ROTS?

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Where were you in '77?

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joefavs said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Attack of the Clones was so bad it made Home Alone 3 look like Home Alone 2.

I would willingly watch Attack of the Clones before any Home Alone movie. I despise those movies.

At least in Home Alone people get lit on fire and beaten in the head with blunt objects until their teeth fall out.

The Person in Question

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Scott109 said:

If force sensitivity is a recessive trait, it would be possible to be force sensitive but not have force sensitive parents and vice versa.

If force sensitivity was a recessive trait, all kids of two Jedi would have this ability, too. And kids of non-Jedi would have an incredibly small chance to be force sensitive. This would make it almost mandatory that Jedi have families and children, otherwise the order quickly runs out of members. It would make more sense if Anakin’s romance with Padme was prohibited because she’s not force sensitive.

Now on the other hand, if force sensitivity would be dominant, everyone with a Jedi in their bloodline would be force sensitive. And what does the Jedi order do? They track down Jedi familiy trees, make them join the order and prohibit them from having children on their own. So in this scenario, the goal of the Jedi order is that the gene for force sensitivity dies out.

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Actually if it were recessive, allowing the Jedi to have children with non sensitives would increase the amount of force sensitivity out there over time by introducing the gene into the general pool. It’s just that not every child would be force sensitive.

If you limited who they could have kids with, you’d end up after several generations with a very unhealthy genetic pool.

TV’s Frink said:

I would put this in my sig if I weren’t so lazy.

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I can’t express enough how much I hate Attack of the Clones, so I’ll just say this:

I would rather watch Die Another Day than sit through Attack of the Clones.

Not enough people read the EU.

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LuckyGungan2001 said:

I can’t express enough how much I hate Attack of the Clones, so I’ll just say this:

I would rather watch Die Another Day than sit through Attack of the Clones.

I’ve seen Die Another Day several times. It doesn’t adequately illustrate your point on how bad AOTC is. You should have used a truly painful film as an example. Date Movie, perhaps.

The Person in Question

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TV’s Frink said:

Scott109 said:
Most action movies only portray a normal, stereotypical love story in which a male protagonist saves a damsel in distress, falls in love with her, and sleeps with her. Attack of the Clones portrays a much more emotionally complex and nuanced love story than any other film I have ever seen.

You should see more films.

Wow. Talk about the understatement of the century.

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Frank your Majesty said:

Scott109 said:

If force sensitivity is a recessive trait, it would be possible to be force sensitive but not have force sensitive parents and vice versa.

If force sensitivity was a recessive trait, all kids of two Jedi would have this ability, too. And kids of non-Jedi would have an incredibly small chance to be force sensitive. This would make it almost mandatory that Jedi have families and children, otherwise the order quickly runs out of members.

Not necessarily. If Force sensitivity is recessive, two parents who are not Force sensitive could conceive an offspring who is Force sensitive provided that both of the parents have one dominant gene and one recessive gene. Moreover, not everyone who is Force sensitive is recruited into the Jedi Order.

Furthermore, there is another thing to consider: if Jedi had families, George Lucas would have probably shown at least some of those families on screen. That would probably mean many more child actors in the Prequel Trilogy.

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CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

Actually if it were recessive, allowing the Jedi to have children with non sensitives would increase the amount of force sensitivity out there over time by introducing the gene into the general pool. It’s just that not every child would be force sensitive.

If you limited who they could have kids with, you’d end up after several generations with a very unhealthy genetic pool.

This

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moviefreakedmind said:

LuckyGungan2001 said:

I can’t express enough how much I hate Attack of the Clones, so I’ll just say this:

I would rather watch Die Another Day than sit through Attack of the Clones.

I’ve seen Die Another Day several times. It doesn’t adequately illustrate your point on how bad AOTC is. You should have used a truly painful film as an example. Date Movie, perhaps.

But…the invisible car!

I will admit I could have used a worse movie. But Die Another Day is still fresh in my mind.

Not enough people read the EU.

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LuckyGungan2001 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

LuckyGungan2001 said:

I can’t express enough how much I hate Attack of the Clones, so I’ll just say this:

I would rather watch Die Another Day than sit through Attack of the Clones.

I’ve seen Die Another Day several times. It doesn’t adequately illustrate your point on how bad AOTC is. You should have used a truly painful film as an example. Date Movie, perhaps.

But…the invisible car!

I will admit I could have used a worse movie. But Die Another Day is still fresh in my mind.

Is an invisible car really that ridiculous for a Bond movie at the time? I agree that for all intents and purposes Die Another Day is a sucky movie, and it’s actually my least favorite Bond film of all time, but the invisible car is the least of its problems. The fact that the villain is a Korean man who had plastic surgery to look and sound like a British man who required a magic mask to sleep at night was a big drawback for me. 😉

The Person in Question

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moviefreakedmind said:

The fact that the villain is a Korean man who had plastic surgery to look and sound like a British man who required a magic mask to sleep at night was a big drawback for me. 😉

Whenever I say to my friends how much Die Another Day sucks, that’s always the first thing I bring up.

Anyway, this isn’t a James Bond thread, Attack of the Clones sucks and we all know it deep down.

Not enough people read the EU.

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LuckyGungan2001 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

The fact that the villain is a Korean man who had plastic surgery to look and sound like a British man who required a magic mask to sleep at night was a big drawback for me. 😉

Whenever I say to my friends how much Die Another Day sucks, that’s always the first thing I bring up.

Anyway, this isn’t a James Bond thread, Attack of the Clones sucks and we all know it deep down.

They came out the same year as well. Some say coincidence, but I say conspiracy.

The Person in Question

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Scott109 said:

Frank your Majesty said:

Scott109 said:

If force sensitivity is a recessive trait, it would be possible to be force sensitive but not have force sensitive parents and vice versa.

If force sensitivity was a recessive trait, all kids of two Jedi would have this ability, too. And kids of non-Jedi would have an incredibly small chance to be force sensitive. This would make it almost mandatory that Jedi have families and children, otherwise the order quickly runs out of members.

Not necessarily. If Force sensitivity is recessive, two parents who are not Force sensitive could conceive an offspring who is Force sensitive provided that both of the parents have one dominant gene and one recessive gene.

You’re missing the point. It’s your “vice versa” that I’m arguing against. If force sensitivity was recessive, all Jedi would have both alleles for the recessive gene. This means children of two Jedi would be guaranteed to be force sensitive, too. This would be a great way to get new members for the Jedi order.
And even if a Jedi has children with a non-Jedi, the recessive gene would be spread, so that the chance for two non-Jedi with mixed alleles to meet and have children would increase. Preventing Jedi from having children at all is what doesn’t make any sense.

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The title is a spoiler for the end of the film, just like Revenge of the Sith.

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Bingowings said:

The title is a spoiler for the end of the film, just like Revenge of the Sith.

So is Return of the Jedi and The Empire Strikes Back

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ray_afraid said:

^ Actually, I don’t know what Revenge of the Sith as a title has to do with anything.
We never really find out what the sith are, what they are after or even if they want revenge. And if they do want revenge, why and against who?

It is not in the movie itself but it is made clear in TPM that the sith were exterminated(probably by the jedies).

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I sought revenge on George Lucas after watching Revenge of the Sith.

The Person in Question

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ray_afraid said:

We never really find out what the sith are, what they are after or even if they want revenge. And if they do want revenge, why and against who?

Logically, they should want revenge against themselves, since their near-extinction was supposedly caused by infighting, but logic is completely alien to the PT.

[JEDIT]

I forgot, the whole self-extinction bit came from the now-defunct EU. That makes the revenge the Sith are after even more nebulous now.

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TV’s Frink said:

Bingowings said:

The acting and direction and writing of the love story has nothing to do with depictions of mental health conditions and everything to do with George’s actual arrested emotional and artistic development.
He thinks like an 11 year old (and sometimes this is his strength) Only really gifted actors and directors can get those thoughts to feel like something real people might do.

My wife and I have long suspected George has Asperger’s. This is not an insult (those who know me understand why) but an observation on both his strengths and weaknesses.

I thought about that too.