Filmmaker and New Yorker film critic Richard Brody's thoughts on the prequels. — Page 10

OT is racist: the bad guy is black. And Jabba is a fat-shaming character.

The only asian people we can see in the PT are actually asian people.

imperialscum said:
As for Nomodians resembling Japanese, I have been living/working in Japan and I speak Japanese and I have never seen any resemblence.

It’s not even the looks; it’s the damn voice. It’s almost like George was told the voice actor to purposefully mock a Japanese or Chinese accent.

No one (or at least me) is saying that the nemoidians have dead on southeast Asian accents that are exactly how people from that part of the world actually sound. They sound like any of the umpteen racist portrayals of Chinese and Japanese characters in movies from the 30s and 40s that Lucas would surely have been familiar with.i think he’s recycling tropes in a carelessly insensitive way, not that he’s trying to make some statement about the way the world is.

imperialscum said:
Have you read the first part of my post? You are being ignorant racist again. Japanese and Chinese is completely different and their English accents are naturally different.

Presumptuous? Maybe, but racist? No.

Of all the lame excuses people are making for the bad stereotypes in TPM (and holy shit they’re all in a single movie!), my favorite by far is “you’re racist if you think these are racist stereotypes.”

MalàStrana said:

The only asian people we can see in the PT are actually asian people.

How is this in any way relevant? There’s no Israel on Tatooine but Watto is still a racial stereotype.

moviefreakedmind said:

Bingowings said:
Women wear makeup and clothes and have babies (without sex) at a push they work in libraries. Alien women can twirl swords but only if the wear less clothes or say nothing.

Padme and Leia were senators and shot people left and right.

Padme’s main action was to wear makeup and clothes (she shoots a bit in two sequences in two movies and kicks a spidercat in the nuts).
Leia is arguably the only reasonably explored female character in the series (even more than the Mos Eisley pea-strainer or the little old lady that doesn’'t sell much in Mos Espa).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRquPxdHNGE&nohtml5=False

adywan said:

yotsuya said:

Lord Haseo said:

Dek Rollins said:
Now you’re just avoiding making a real argument, which shows me that you have no way of arguing your opinion on the matter.

Me posting evidence of their heavy Asian accent is making a real argument unlike you who has been trying to worm your way around it and hiding in the shade of Lucas’ nutsack.

Me posting that is like me debating with a fundamentalist Christian who doesn’t believe in evolution and posting Homo Habilis or something to only meet a response of “you’re not making an argument”

Please find a video of Asians talking that way. You have 89 years of film and television to choose from. And Asian is so specific. Are they speaking with a Chinese, Mongolian, Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese, Cambodian, or Indonesian accent? The answer is none of those and also not like any white person in yellow face faking an accent. Their accent is unique and unspecific. The closest I have heard was Reggie Nalder (and Austrian who played the Andorian Ambassador in Journey to Babel). But it is not Asian.

Having grown up with the TV of the 60’s & 70’s here in the uk with the likes of It Aint 'arf hot mum, mind your language, Benny Hill, Spike Milligan, Alf Garnet and a host of other comedies and comedians, the accents in TPM are racial stereotypes and very typical of the type of “white person doing an accent” that we use to get. The nemoidians are very much like the way the comedies portrayed an Asian accent (the Chinese being the traders). Watto is completely the old style Jew (The shop keeper and money man. Remember the hat? Well you know what that was originally based upon…) etc etc. It’s the same type of thing george did with making the bad guys (Empire) British. Was it blatant racism? probably not. More like an old guy stuck in an era past. You have to remember that these characters were based on georges notes during the design stage. he would have given the designers a full description of the character which most likely included what they sounded like. Then , when it came time to record the characters voices, george was there in the studio directing them as to what he wanted them to sound like, including any accents. the accents were deliberate.

peter Sellers Fu Man Chu is very similar to the accent of the nemoidians and the way Nute speaks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgMWhJUS50

Let’s examine that Fu Man Chu clip, shall we. What is his accent? Well, he really doesn’t have one. He is speaking in a scratchy voice, but his words are pronounced pretty much normal. So, nothing really Asian about it at all. An accent requires a shift in pronunciation, pacing, phrasing, not just a change in vocal tone. I will agree that the Nemoidians have the same scratchy voice, but that does not make it an accent. Some who did yellow face adopted a more nasal way of talking, but that is entirely differnt as is their pace of talking. Those quintessential aspects of white people trying to portray Asians are absent form the Nemoidians.

And Watto… seriously? Jewish? Why, because of the hat in Episode II… the Don Quixote metal hat? No, he is Steptoe/Sanford - a stereotypical junk dealer, not a Jewish knockoff. Just look at the pics of Steptoe - the long nose, the frequent unshaven appearance, the bad teeth, the narrow face. Watto doesn’t have a beard, he has stubble. There is a big difference. No, you reading more into this than there is. And there are plenty of people in this world who love money who aren’t Jewish, so claiming that has anything connection is really ridiculous, especially since it is just one of the many parallels Watto has with Steptoe and Sanford.

As for Jar Jar… I’ll take Ahmed Best’s word for it.

imperialscum said: As for Nomodians resembling Japanese, I have been living/working in Japan and I speak Japanese and I have never seen any resemblence.

You might have missed my post on page seven where I outlined my views as somebody who lived in Japan for a decade, but what type of work environment did/do you work in? To me it’s the infections more than the actual pronounciation, but it’s also coupled with the bureacratic nature of those guys which makes me think of Japan. I’m just interested in seeing if you note any similarities since most people don’t quite understand just how dang bureaucratic Japan is. If you don’t, no worries.

And I agree about the “Asian” stereotype being way too broad. A lot of people keep saying how the trade federation portrays the “timid asian stereotype.” Generally speaking, Chinese and South Koreans are anything BUT timid. I’d also say Japanese aren’t timid outside of the workplace.

moviefreakedmind said:
seeing as how every character in the PT was quite terrible it seems like a redundant conversation.

Yeah, I need to slap myself. I’m more invested in this conversation than I ever was in the movie.

Bingowings said:
Padme’s main action was to wear makeup and clothes (she shoots a bit in two sequences in two movies and kicks a spidercat in the nuts).
Leia is arguably the only reasonably explored female character in the series (even more than the Mos Eisley pea-strainer or the little old lady that doesn’'t sell much in Mos Espa).

Have we forgotten the entire third act of TPM exists solely because of Padmé’s decision making as a leader? She’s also the one who decides to go save Obi-Wan in AOTC. It’s only really in ROTS that she sits idly by as things go south, although a few deleted scenes give her a more active role in creating the rebellion with Bail and Mothma.

I guess if all you see in that is makeup and clothes…

IKnowWhatYouDidLastSummer said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRquPxdHNGE&nohtml5=False

Then we had all better shut up and never talk again. Sorry, but you can’t take every single thing as racist, sexist, or homophobic. That is totally ridiculous. Yes, we have problems with those issues in the world, but we are shrinking the portion of the population who thinks that way all the time. Insisting that the Gungans, Nemoidians, and Watto are racist stereotypes based on the scant evidence and ignoring the evidence to the contrary doesn’t help the situation any. And yes, I do believe that if you are so insistent that the Nemoidians sound Asian that you have an issue because as far as I’m concerned, it is a new and unique accent created just for them and does not bear a strong enough resemblance to any real or fake Asian accent I have ever heard. And the inspiration for Watto is clear and it has nothing to do with Jews and everything to do with Junk (not a business I have ever seen the Jewish stereotype linked with - they are always linked to money, not a lack of it like poor Watto/Steptoe/Sanford).

We have enough issues in this world without finding them where they don’t exist. Rather than focus on these characters, we should be asking why our movies aren’t as racially diverse as our country. Where are all the Latinos and East Asians in American movies. Where are all the Desis in UK movies. White people should barely be getting 50% of the roles, but it is way more than that (and slanted 2/3 men and only 1/3 women). I am way more concerned about those problems than worrying whether Nute Gunray is a vague racial stereotype - not even a deliberate one at that. That is why I think this is worth arguing about. The real issues are far more important and worthy of our time. Accidental vague stereotypes cropping up in completely inhuman aliens in science fiction movies should not be an issue. We should be having a conversation about how many roles written for other races get cast as white. Khan is the latest one that pissed me off.

Yes, although few, the women in Star Wars have not been weak characters. Starting with Leia in ANH picking up blasters. She is a Senator and a leader. Padme was Queen then Senator. She did not take a backseat except when in disguise. She decided to return to Naboo and seek the aid of the Gungans to take back their planet. She came up with the plan that they carried out successfully. TFA carries on that nicely with a female lead who I do not for a moment consider a Mary Sue. Plus it includes many other women, something the OT generally lacked. Only Leia and Beru had major screen time and speaking roles (Mon Mothma had one major scene). The newer movies have done better getting close to a balance of gender roles but there is a way to go.

TV’s Frink said:
There’s no Israel on Tatooine but Watto is still a racial stereotype.

Oh God… where do I begin ? Let’s give it a try :

• there is no jewish race (nazis believed that, sionists still believe that, but this is bullshit), so Watto can’t be a jewish racial stereotype ;

• Israel is a country with jewish people, muslims people, North African immigrants of jewish religion and of semitic ancestry, and European immigrants of jewish religion but not of semitic ancestry; so I don’t quite see the point of talking about Israel here since this is not a “full” jewish country nor a “full” semitic country, and which does not represent any race or stereotype that could be found in TPM ;

• so Watto is, AT MOST, a semitic racial stereotype. Watto is a slaver and a bad guy, and he looks like a bad guy you could find in North Africa/Middle East (or in the Steptoe/Sanford reference provided by yotsuya). It’s not subtle (Jabba is a bad guy who looks like a bad guy) but I fail to see why this would be racist/antisemite.

Also, read this:

yotsuya said:
And Watto… seriously? Jewish? Why, because of the hat in Episode II… the Don Quixote metal hat? No, he is Steptoe/Sanford - a stereotypical junk dealer, not a Jewish knockoff. Just look at the pics of Steptoe - the long nose, the frequent unshaven appearance, the bad teeth, the narrow face. Watto doesn’t have a beard, he has stubble. There is a big difference. No, you reading more into this than there is. And there are plenty of people in this world who love money who aren’t Jewish, so claiming that has anything connection is really ridiculous, especially since it is just one of the many parallels Watto has with Steptoe and Sanford.

FFS, I’m not going to bother responding to that. You’ve focused on everything except the actual point.

Also, I’M JEWISH. And I’m not religious. So what am I?